Skynet is guarded by exactly one terminator without a gun.
Despite the fact that it is demonstrated that terminators can be created to exactly replicate the appearance and voice of people they’ve captured to infiltrate or lure the Resistance into traps, Skynet chooses to keep Kyle Reese alive to lure John Connor into a trap.
Seriously, what possible reason could Skynet have for keeping Reese alive? Killing him ensures that John is never conceived. Even if you’re willing to argue the grandfather paradox here, you have to admit, it couldn’t fucking hurt.
Apparently, you can jump into the ocean from a helicopter and just swim down and enter a nuclear submarine without any kind of diving gear.
The resistance has the talent and technology to perform a heart transplant.
The enormous ten-story tall Harvester robots are capable of astounding feats of ambush. They’re big, but they can walk on tippy-toes.
They also moo.
Blair is willing to betray her entire race and everyone who was willing to fight and die with her for a robot she’s known for less than two days and is unquestionably some kind of trap created by Skynet.
Terminators have highly-unstable nuclear power cells which would be much more effective as weapons against the Resistance than robots with guns.
These power cells apparently weren’t in the terminators destroyed in the first two movies.
John Connor is immune to radiation, because he’s usually within a few hundred yards of these nuclear explosions when they occur.
Skynet has no idea where the Resistance is, even though there’s a lake full of amphibious snake terminators in the lake two hundred yards outside their main base. Nor do these aquatic robots aid Skynet in any way to find the nuclear submarine serving as the Resistance HQ. In the ocean. The watery place you’d want your swimming robots to be.
Wouldn’t it have been simpler to simply stuff Marcus full of explosives and program him to explode when he encounters John?
John is a war hero among the Resistance for teaching them how to fight the machines and exposing all of their weaknesses like, uh, shooting them a lot and running away.
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Over thinking much..?
At least I AM thinking.
You make it sound like expecting a movie to make sense is just too damn much to ask.
Suddenly the “why doesn’t he just turns into a bomb that blows everyone up” line from T2 makes me feel that the lack of sense has always been with this series.
Well, you said this was pre-time travel Skynet, right? Maybe some of these things, like the voice changing, came in later Terminator models. Or did they call them out by name early on?
Good points really hehe :)
I think one of my main issues with the terminator series is the way the time travel aspect isn’t exactly consistent. In Terminator we have the machines making a rather desperate move sending a machine back to assassinate Sarah Connor, which John then moves to counter by sending one of his trusted men back (Kyle Reese). It kind of supports the predestination paradox of time travel, as the desperate attempt by skynet is actually the reason John Connor came to be.
After that Terminator 2 seemed to shift more to the grandfather paradox side of things, with consistency actually being thrown off somewhat in the timeline with how they were trying to avert judgement day, and were shown to have managed it to an extent.
I kind of prefer the predestination paradox in that if time travel were possible we would not have any impact on the time line. Well, I guess there would be an impact, but that impact would have already happened and we would simply be unknowingly keeping everything consistent.
I guess that with the future already being known all the events leading up to it would have no real tension to them, and likely not make things as riveting for a viewer. But it would certainly stop me going around in circles trying to understand what they were going for with the time travel in this series. However I think the problem is that there isn’t truly any consistency so trying to understand it is likely an impossible task.
Hmm… yes I can agree with those. Did anyone notice that red mark on whats-her-name’s forehead?
It seems like the fact that the timeline got screwed up is an excuse for taking all the original events and TOTALLY mixing them all up. Like they wrote them down on slips of paper and threw them into a hat to draw.
While I loved the movie and have loved the Terminator Mythos since I was a child, my biggest issues is that Skynet is a cold calculating machine. It’s supposed to be driven by logic and plausability with it’s plans. Time travel and changing a timeline is the LEAST plausible and logical action for anyone, especially a highly tuned machine, to take. I don’t even know that a totally logic based machine machine would consider time travel as a possible solution even if the technology were possible. Seems that it would make more sense to a machine that the past is unalterable regardless of what technology exists and that any attempt to change the timeline would result in A) Nothing or B) Catastrophic events that could wipe out existance.
We accept the Terminator Mythos because we are people who act on a combination of logic and emotion, but, even in T2, while the T-800 learns about humans,understands them, and makes it’s noble sacrifice, it never developes an emotional or illogical response.
The point is, even in the face of absolute eradication, self-aware or not, Skynet would be more likely to accept it’s destruction as the result of the exhaustion of all options rather than ever considering changing the past in the first place! I guess the only possible explaination for a machine acting this way is that there is a human illteligence somehow behind what Skynet is upto, which may yet be revealed in the next two movies. *shrug*
After reading all of this it seems like Deadpool from X-men Origins: Wolverine was more of a Terminator than the Terminators in this movie.
Rebutting some of these (more spoilers):
“Skynet is guarded by exactly one terminator without a gun.”
Remember, Skynet was trying to let Marcus and John in.
“Despite the fact that it is demonstrated that terminators can be created to exactly replicate the appearance and voice of people they’ve captured to infiltrate or lure the Resistance into traps, Skynet chooses to keep Kyle Reese alive to lure John Connor into a trap.”
The Terminators can’t really imitate anybody yet. Remember, at this point, Marcus and the T-800 are prototypes.
“Seriously, what possible reason could Skynet have for keeping Reese alive? Killing him ensures that John is never conceived. Even if you’re willing to argue the grandfather paradox here, you have to admit, it couldn’t fucking hurt.”
Reese was kept alive specifically to lure John into the base. Apparently, Skynet wanted to avoid the Grandfather Paradox and kill Connor both now and in the past in one fell swoop.
“Apparently, you can jump into the ocean from a helicopter and just swim down and enter a nuclear submarine without any kind of diving gear.”
It’s an action flick. Superhuman stunts are the order of the day.
“The resistance has the talent and technology to perform a heart transplant.”
Yeah, this one kinda bugged me too.
“The enormous ten-story tall Harvester robots are capable of astounding feats of ambush. They’re big, but they can walk on tippy-toes.”
Just because they’re big, doesn’t necessarily mean they’re noisy.
“They also moo.”
???
“Blair is willing to betray her entire race and everyone who was willing to fight and die with her for a robot she’s known for less than two days and is unquestionably some kind of trap created by Skynet.”
Sometimes, people do stupid things out of emotion.
“Terminators have highly-unstable nuclear power cells which would be much more effective as weapons against the Resistance than robots with guns.”
This kind of bugged me too.
“These power cells apparently weren’t in the terminators destroyed in the first two movies.”
Well, they never really get blown up in the first two movies. The first one is crushed, and the second is melted into slag. It’s entirely possible the power cores survived.
“John Connor is immune to radiation, because he’s usually within a few hundred yards of these nuclear explosions when they occur.”
Yeah, that was pretty dumb too. But hey, if Indiana Jones can survive a nuclear bomb hiding in a fridge (again, with no sign of radiation poisoning), why not?
“Skynet has no idea where the Resistance is, even though there’s a lake full of amphibious snake terminators in the lake two hundred yards outside their main base. Nor do these aquatic robots aid Skynet in any way to find the nuclear submarine serving as the Resistance HQ. In the ocean. The watery place you’d want your swimming robots to be.”
Well, it knows where the Resistance is now… because Marcus was a mole and all. As for the sub, the ocean’s a big place.
“Wouldn’t it have been simpler to simply stuff Marcus full of explosives and program him to explode when he encounters John?”
Even if Skynet had done so, it wouldn’t have gone off. The Resistance had him unconscious and stripped to the bone. They would have found any explosives.
“John is a war hero among the Resistance for teaching them how to fight the machines and exposing all of their weaknesses like, uh, shooting them a lot and running away.”
Yeah, I know, big fucking weaknesses, right?
The sad part is, most of these are points that I picked up while actually watching the movie for the first time. It’s one thing to look back after the fact and pick a movie apart, but when there are so many holes in plot and logic such that you’re picking them up even while following the story, it’s usually a bad sign.
Oh, I got one. When Marcus and Spunky Euroasian are escaping from the resistance base, why is the resistance shooting at them and lobbing explosives. It just seems like a big waste of ammo when you have a ROBOT-TURNING-OFF FREQUENCY!
Maybe they want to intimidate the robots^^
Ok, I agree on the whole “earlier T-models”-thing, so the robots can’t really imitate the humans 100% yet… but Skynet and the robots acting so totally out-of-character bothered me too…
Remember that scene with the old lady called Sarah Connor in T1? Remember how Arnold just mercilessly….pushed her, explained his evil plan and took her as a prisoner? Yea, great scene wasnt it?
The single awesome thing about T1, 2 and yes, even 3 was that those machines weren’t EFFING FOOLING AROUND!
Hmm, and well maybe John Connor being able to survive radiation is what makes him the JEBUS of the rebellion!
I hate what current movie industry is doing. They are ruining every good thing they did in the past.
Spoony , maybe you could give a review about how to destroy good movies by remaking them.
But even if you do so, will anyone listen to you and stop doing it??? I guess not.
I think the film studio just knows their audience. If a movie is bad and the fans of the ambitious original complains they “aren’t watching it the right way” or “are nitpicking”.
“John Connor is immune to radiation, because he’s usually within a few hundred yards of these nuclear explosions when they occur.”
Yeah, that was pretty dumb too. But hey, if Indiana Jones can survive a nuclear bomb hiding in a fridge (again, with no sign of radiation poisoning), why not? —-
Oh dear, if you’re using Indy4 logic/plotlines (or lack thereof) to justify events in T4 it gives me no hope whatsoever for T4.
What bugs me on these issues is that it’s actually not that hard to come up with a basic plot and storyline that would make sense inside the basic Terminator setting. I’m not talking about the merits of good dialogue, or acting, or effects, just the basic plot. I honestly think any half cogent fan could do it without making the kind of outright errors that seem to be the case with this movie (I’ve not seen it yet I hasten to add). Why on Earth do Hollywood allow very expensive fanchise movies to get released without first weeding out these kind of clear errors?
I’ve wanted to watch a Terminator Future War movie since before T2 came out, what a shame they have clearly fucked it up. The plot sounds ludicrous, and based upon deep mistakes (SKYNET knowing Reese is John’s father, and also knowing John is the Saviour of Mankind, for two). Unless of course the TX told SKYNET about Connor in T3, in which case that needed to be made clear, otherwise SKYNET knowing the future makes no sense at all. I suspect this is just ignorant writers not understanding the setting as well as fans – which is bloody terrible.
Re – why the Terminators in the original 2 movies didn’t just pack themselves with explosives and blow up when they were close to Connor. Well, imo, that isn’t actually a sure fire way of getting a kill, the Terminator might have blown itself up and not killed Connor, and then of course having blown itself up would get no second shot. If I were SKYNET I would have relied on the sheer lethality of the Terminators rather than turned them into one shot ‘all or nothing’ walking IEDs.
Sounds like Marcus could have just shot Connor (and Reese) to me? I’m due to see the movie end of the week, so I guess I’ll decide then, but I dislike even the principle of SKYNET knowing about Reese and Connor, and setting a trap for them. It just sounds hokey. I’d much rather SKYNET had been kept unknowable and distant (kinda like a Machine Sauron).
“These power cells apparently weren’t in the terminators destroyed in the first two movies.”
The first two terminators were NOT nuclear powered. The T-850’s, however, were. Regardless, either the movie fucked up, or they were trying to show that the altered future were progressing MUCH faster and effiecently when it comes to lifespan.
Maybe I’m slow, but I never really saw any evidence for Skynet wanting to keep Reese alive. That one terminator shooting at them certainly didn’t seem to try and keep him alive. Then in the scene where he’s picked up out of the line, I figured he was caught trying to hide that steel rod.
Now, what I don’t get is how did Cyberdyne manage to make Marcus into a robot when all of the prototype stuff was destroyed in T2?
What if Skynet just have to advanced logic for us humans to comprehend? That all of it’s plan are genius but we’re to thick to understand it… probably not.
Damn you stupid-robot-logic-science!
“Now, what I don’t get is how did Cyberdyne manage to make Marcus into a robot when all of the prototype stuff was destroyed in T2?”
Do you really think they didn’t have an off-site backup?
@Madz The T800 he fights at the end does use a voice changer to trick Conner.
Sponny I again agree with you 100%. From the robotic screaching eels to the ginormous super sized silent robots, to the stupidity of skynet’s so called plan. Just fucking kill Kyle and get it done with. You know Conner is going to show up, just having him there is insurance enough that he’s going to come for him. There’s no need to keep him alive. FUCKING DO IT ALREADY. However it does raise the question of how does skynet know any of this? Do they have a crystal ball to see into the future? Neither one have really done much in their present to warrent Skynet needing to assassinate them yet. I just don’t get it.
THIS MOVIE SUCKS
I think skynet has windows on it to ,do so monumentally stupid things.
There are a LOT of points here that can be refuted, Spoony. (But i just want to preface this by saying i’m a long-time fan… i’ve watched most of your vids).
I don’t really have time to get into everything, but one thing that is easily explained away is the “issue” of Skynet knowing about previous iterations of the future. Do any of you remember in T3 when the female terminator hacked several of the terminators at the Cyberdyne base to kill John Conner? This is done off-screen, but is it really so much of a stretch to think that information wasn’t somehow uploaded to Skynet’s central network as well?
See, just small things like that can do away with much of your nitpicking… which is what it really is when all is said and done. Why aren’t the terminators more efficient killing machines? Because in the previous movies SINGLE terminators were able to kill everyone who wasn’t another terminator. Now imagine if all the terminators in the future were that efficient. Do you really think the resistance would have any hope of winning? Humans would’ve been eradicated within the first year of Skynet’s creation, there wouldn’t even be time to organize a resistance! It’s a movie, you have to suspend your disbelief or you won’t be able to enjoy it.
If you don’t pop culture in the face, nobody else will.
Thanks for calling out this movie. You saved me $20.
There was talk about them making a Robocop VS Terminator movie years ago I wonder what happened to it?
That’s the only terminator movie I would want to see in the future.
Plus I haven’t been more bored with WAR in my life. Constant saturation in the News, Games and Movies hence why I probably won’t go to see his movie.
And I hate it when they have open ended lame ass ending to continue the possibility of more films in the future of the franchise like they did with the Matrix Revolutions and T3 which resolves nothing and makes the movie pretty pointless.
please, just stop.
stop trying to invent stupid reasons why something works just because you dislike spoony ranting on something.
for example the post of SorCa was the most stupid thing i have read all day. If you want to counter logic by more logic then you end on the point that its a movie and not real. duh.
If you cant admit that the producers fucked around and did a bad job you should not try to counter a rant at all. If the resistance has no chance of surviving a war THEN THEY DONT. which means the first film is a bag of shit already. If i read here in a response that a nuclear reactor will not blow up when it is crushed but it will blow up when its shot at, i just congratulate you for managing to type the message.
Maybe we will see star trek vs. terminator crossover next. Time travel that these these two franchise has, creates somekind of twisted timeline with them. At the end of movie Galactus finaly apears and destroy this fucking nonsense. silver surfer can’t save the day because he is in other shitty movie.
Afterall terminator 3/ salvation didn’t ever happen.
Quote —- I don’t really have time to get into everything, but one thing that is easily explained away is the “issue” of Skynet knowing about previous iterations of the future. Do any of you remember in T3 when the female terminator hacked several of the terminators at the Cyberdyne base to kill John Conner? This is done off-screen, but is it really so much of a stretch to think that information wasn’t somehow uploaded to Skynet’s central network as well?
See, just small things like that can do away with much of your nitpicking…~~~~~~
IF that’s the reason SKYNET knows about Reese and Connor … then imo it should have been spelt out on screen, or at least hinted at.
If it’s true it also raises the question as to why SKYNET has waited so long (it’s been what; 15 years since Judgment Day?) before taking action against Reese and Connor.
I just got back from seeing it, and I can refute a lot of these.
>>Despite the fact that it is demonstrated that terminators can be created to exactly replicate the appearance and voice of people they’ve captured to infiltrate or lure the Resistance into traps, Skynet chooses to keep Kyle Reese alive to lure John Connor into a trap.
Yeah. Why kill one and rely on a paradox (risking destroying everything) when you can just kill what will hurt you in the future?
>>The enormous ten-story tall Harvester robots are capable of astounding feats of ambush. They’re big, but they can walk on tippy-toes.
They’re deployed from HKs. It’s not like they have to move far.
>>Skynet has no idea where the Resistance is, even though there’s a lake full of amphibious snake terminators in the lake two hundred yards outside their main base. Nor do these aquatic robots aid Skynet in any way to find the nuclear submarine serving as the Resistance HQ. In the ocean. The watery place you’d want your swimming robots to be.
Oceanic pressure. ‘Nuff said. Also, they had the signal for this. Why go on a wild goose chase when you can lead them right to you?
>>Wouldn’t it have been simpler to simply stuff Marcus full of explosives and program him to explode when he encounters John?
Kinda defeats the purpose of an infiltrator, doesn’t it? Why go for a random chance of killing your target with no second chances when you can create fear and doubt on the inside? Skynet may be a machine, but it’s not stupid. If you can get someone in to kill a target, and get them back out intact, that’s a more favorable scenario.
>>John is a war hero among the Resistance for teaching them how to fight the machines and exposing all of their weaknesses like, uh, shooting them a lot and running away.
“There’s a chip at the base of the skull! A knife there will disorient it!” And this actually does get used.
>>Skynet is guarded by exactly one terminator without a gun.
This was a trap. Did you even pay attention to the end of the movie? Skynet wanted the resistance to get inside and use the “off switch” signal. It was fake.
>>Terminators have highly-unstable nuclear power cells which would be much more effective as weapons against the Resistance than robots with guns.
Which is more beneficial to Skynet? One shot that can cause total obliteration to an area, thus robbing it of any resources in the area, or powering something that can kill the enemy with a little more precision, saving whatever scarce resources are left.
I know I’m overthinking this, but simple logic is all that’s required. Well, simple logic and a little bit of attention to detail. Oh, and before any of you guys decide that I’m just ruthlessly attacking Spoony, I’m a fan. I’ve watched and read his material for a couple of years now.
My own personal complaint about this movie: It’s not the future we were fucking promised! Where’s the valleys full of the dead? The tank HKs? The never-ending darkness? WHERE WERE THE PLASMA WEAPONS?!
“Maybe we will see star trek vs. terminator crossover next.”
Perhaps with the same cast as in the latest Star Trek and Terminator movie. Now imagine Reese meeting Chekov…
@Doktor Sleepless
“Oceanic pressure. ‘Nuff said.”
You know, it is so much more easier to make a machine to stand the pressure of high depths than to make a submarine that can support people inside of it, not really an issue. Also, they could use sonars like modern navy equipment uses.
Quoting Neobara
“Why aren’t the terminators more efficient killing machines? Because in the previous movies SINGLE terminators were able to kill everyone who wasn’t another terminator. Now imagine if all the terminators in the future were that efficient. Do you really think the resistance would have any hope of winning? Humans would’ve been eradicated within the first year of Skynet’s creation, there wouldn’t even be time to organize a resistance!”
“Do you really think the resistance would have any hope of winning?”
YES, because of Connor. That’s the whole point. The Terminator in the future ARE as deadly as the ones that were sent to the past, BUT CONNOR SAVES THE DAY. That’s the whole point of the entire franchise.
With the Terminators being so deadly there’s no way humankind could resist, BUT CONNOR knows a way. That’s why he’s the key to mankind’s survival.
“See, just small things like that can do away with much of your nitpicking…”
No, they don’t. You just missed the point.
First you SUPPOSE the TX informed Skynet of events from the future, and then you SUPPOSE AGAIN that the Terminators in the future are weaker than the ones sent to the past, which makes no sense(and even less sense if the TX gave information to Skynet).
I’m mostly in agreemnt with post 31 Doktor sleepless: a couple things though.
We were shown laser guns (maybey they were plasma) never-ending darkness (which to be fair it was dark at skynet), and time travel. Even if you accept that time-traveling negates any certainty of anything, it doesn’t exuse the producers from skimping out on it. Gatling guns while neat, are not lasers.
On the same token while being precise to that extreme is necessary when time traveling, that level of precisness wouldn’t be neseccary in the present. They can blow everything and anything they want and not threaten their existence, or the space/time continum. Same applies to humanity. As it is this is a lousy stand-alone movie story wise.
On the positive side at least most of you can say its better than T3.
“Apparently, you can jump into the ocean from a helicopter and just swim down and enter a nuclear submarine without any kind of diving gear.”
Batman, I mean, John Conner does demand he be met by a full diving team before he jumps into the water.
“These power cells apparently weren’t in the terminators destroyed in the first two movies.”
It could be argued when Judgment Day was delayed by the events of T2, the SkyNet of the new timeline developed the Terminators slightly differently including putting these highly explosive fuel cells in them.
“John is a war hero among the Resistance for teaching them how to fight the machines and exposing all of their weaknesses like, uh, shooting them a lot and running away.”
I think he’s suppose to have also started the resistance by breaking out the first people from the work camps, but was somehow passed over for leadership of the Resistance as a whole and completely unmentioned in Salvation. Maybe John Conner isn’t suppose to become the war hero until later when he actually does something heroic or not stupid like what happened in Salvation, BUT because Kyle Reese went back in time and taught Sarah Conner about the machines and she taught John so he when the machines did start attacking he wasn’t at all shocked and looked confident so all the other resistance fighters took that as leadership.
Umm I thought I add this about everyone complaining about the lack of laser and skulls. Kyle Reese’s flashbacks are to 11 years ahead of when Salvation takes place. Therefore we’ve got 11 years for SkyNet to develop lasers and layer the ground with skulls.
Newt: What about the mounds of skulls from the people who died when the NUCLEAR BOMBS WENT OFF? It’s not like Skynet decided to redecorate later on!
I’m going stick with SkyNet decides to redecorate, but I think the skulls never belonged in the first place you can show apocalypse without showing death barren destroyed cities are all the imagery I need. And if you really don’t accept that, then let’s pretend the skulls are laying the ground of some area of Earth we haven’t seen yet, maybe NYC or something.
@Doktor Sleepless
Newt: In that case you’re asking me to pretend Kyle Reeses’ flashbacks/forwards were just plain wrong.
Giant robots that moo? That sounds vaguely familiar…
(First off sorry for the double post)
@Doktor Sleepless:
>>>>”Despite the fact … John Connor into a trap.”
>>Yeah. Why kill one and rely on a paradox (risking destroying everything) when you can just kill what will hurt you in the future?
I think what Spoony meant was that he could kill him and use a copy to lure John Connor. So this makes it a valid complaint.
>>>>”Skynet is guarded …without a gun.”
>>This was a trap. Did you even pay attention to the end of the movie? Skynet wanted the resistance to get inside and use the “off switch” signal. It was fake.
Here Spoony probably meant he thought the trap was pretty shitty if there is no giant death trap waiting for John Connor except for a terminator without a gun.
The rest I can understand what you are getting at I just thought you missed the point on these two.
Maybe Reese just embellished the truth about what the future was like. A darkned wasteland with skulls litering the ground all over the place. Listen lady, I’ve had it really rough…I’ve never felt the touch of a woman, now give me some nookie.
hehe, you made me remember that I always think about how the heck, does Indy gets into and hides aboard that Nazi u-boot. He just swims to it and then they just cut to the island. :)
As far as I’m concerned, T3/Salvation never happened. The Sarah Connor Chronicles is the true cannon.
I usually agree with a lot of Spoony’s comments on other films, but I think he’s just plain wrong here. Having rewatched the previous movies before this one I found that a lot of what he complained about is stuff you see in the previous terminator movies. Is it really that hard to admit it was a good addition to the series? (Except T3 which shouldn’t count)
Just a comment on Spoony’s observations of John Connor’s character not being so great, and feel free to comment on my theory I’d love to know if it’s a pop opinion or not. Basically everything we know about John Connor we get from Reese, who as we’ve seen in Salvation was just a kid when he met him. So what I think is that maybe John Conner is actually a very inconsequential figure made into this deity by a little kid who looked up to Connor and made him into something he’s not. And since Reese, wrongfully, sees John as some kind of saviour, so does everyone else when he goes back in time and, paradoxically, creates the myth that John is the hero of man instead of a simple soldier. So in this new altered timeline because of Reese’s interference with the past, everyone, including skynet, is dooped into thinking John is important to the war when he’s really just a man idolized by a scared little kid growing up in a fucked up world without a dad.
the movie was crap. How can skynet know that Kyle Reese is important IT WOULDNT. And if it knew why not kill him when Marcus first met Reese. Kill Reese and Conner is also dead. It doenst make sense. AAAAH damn you writers of catwoman!
If they didnt have the Marcus character and just focus on Conner and Reese this would have been a OK movie.
PS. spoonys review was dead on, as Always.
“The enormous ten-story tall Harvester robots are capable of astounding feats of ambush. They’re big, but they can walk on tippy-toes.
They also moo.”
Terminator: Salvation has Metal Gear GECKOs?!
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