=( I loved star ocean… i have beaten all 4 =( One of the fwe games i have read the story and beaten.

Which Star Ocean did you hate? The third and fourth are crappy, but the second one was fucking great…

I LOVE Shin Megami Tensei.

Which Star Ocean did you hate? The third and fourth are crappy, but the second one was fucking great…

yes, having a story is boring, having tasteless battles and nothing more is good… americans…

yes, having a story is boring, having tasteless battles and nothing more is good… americans…

It’s strange. You have the exact same opinions as me, although I feel Star Ocean 4 is one of the worst JRPGs I’ve ever played. Everything except the battle system, every damn thing was done horribly. It’s like Tri-Ace took everything that sucks about JRPGs and made a game of that. I hated every hour I spent with that game.

Anyway, you rock, Spoony, etc, etc.

Tensei games can indeed be pretty brutal.

I think you’ll enjoy Persona 4 though. It definitely improved a few things from P3:FES like being able to control your party members, it still has some of the same issues though. As for losing an hour of gameplay due to cheap deaths, just remember to use a GOHO-M every now and then when you’re in a dungeon so you can save :)

I think the reason the Persona games and Tensei in general have a loyal following is that despite their flaws they manage to keep an identity among all the cookie cutter Final Fantasy ripoffs with the awesome summoning/customization thing they have going on.

Tensei games can indeed be pretty brutal.

I think you’ll enjoy Persona 4 though. It definitely improved a few things from P3:FES like being able to control your party members, it still has some of the same issues though. As for losing an hour of gameplay due to cheap deaths, just remember to use a GOHO-M every now and then when you’re in a dungeon so you can save :)

I think the reason the Persona games and Tensei in general have a loyal following is that despite their flaws they manage to keep an identity among all the cookie cutter Final Fantasy ripoffs with the awesome summoning/customization thing they have going on.

I love stories! Stories are great! But the story in Star Ocean is about as interesting as reading the ingredients on a box of Apple Jacks.

I would love to hear your thoughts one day about Persona 4. I would bet you will love it! In some way better then Persona 3.

I would love to hear your thoughts one day about Persona 4. I would bet you will love it! In some way better then Persona 3.

The first SMT game I played was Persona 4. I loved it. Everything about it. I thought it was executed near perfectly and it made me want to play Persona 3: FES just to get more Persona, but Persona 3: FES pales in comparison. I hate Tartarus. I hate the monotonous grinding and boring characters. I stopped about 30 hours in. Maybe it gets better, but I don’t really care. Persona 4 destroys it in every possible way.

I still stand by my opinion that Star Ocean 2 is really good, if only for the excellent gameplay, but the story is still adequate. Granted that the story picks up during the 2nd half and a lot of the goods are revealed only in extras that aren’t necessarily part of the main plot, I still think it’s one of the best RPGs on the original PSX, notably behind Suikoden II which is one of the best console-RPGs ever made.

I still stand by my opinion that Star Ocean 2 is really good, if only for the excellent gameplay, but the story is still adequate. Granted that the story picks up during the 2nd half and a lot of the goods are revealed only in extras that aren’t necessarily part of the main plot, I still think it’s one of the best RPGs on the original PSX, notably behind Suikoden II which is one of the best console-RPGs ever made.

LOL! Those are the two console RPG’s I just finished as well, Eternal Sonata was pretty boring as well, I couldn’t really appreciate the musical merits of it being based on Chopin and his works because I don’t know that much about it, as a game, it was really simple, and just boring, I beat that game in 24hrs flat in 2 sittings, and I was actually making an effort of trying to complete the side quests, what little there were, and do some house looting looking for all the good items and all the score pieces. Star Ocean, I enjoyed Till The End Of Time, that is where I kinda came in on this series, the combat system of Last Hope feels exactly the same as Till The End Of Time, so it felt like there was no innovation in this one, the characters I also could not get involved in, they felt fake to me and pretty generic. Most people pick on the voice acting, which I could but there were only a couple characters I truly wanted to die so they would shut up, I beat in about 35hrs in 4 sittings I think, and really, the game isn’t that long, its the cut scenes that pad the shit out of the game. I have never played any of the persona series games, and I picked up Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne as a rental, and I really enjoyed it, didn’t get around to beating it, but I did buy the Digital Devil saga, which I also enjoyed, I never got around to beating it as well, I got stuck on a boss, and before I knew it, I traded out my PS2 for money for an Xbox 360. Those are two of the highest games on my list of games I regretted when I sold them for Xbox 360.

Persona 4 is so good, and fixes a lot of problems from P3, mainly that you can now control your entire party, There are follow up attacks, the story is there from almost the beginning, and the Social links are a bit more vital. The game is also a bit more forgiving, foregoing the status’ of tired and whatnot. Beyond that, it’s got very deep realistic characters that are easy to identify with and you can become very attached to them. Plus the dungeons are segmented and havve a more important purpose.

I need to get out more…

If you’re getting into Persona 3 now, then I’d definitely go through Persona 4. It gets rid of the horrible towers, and it definitely keeps the story generally stable, without the giant dry spell that was in Persona 3.

One side-note, though, and I’ll keep it free of spoilers. As you get further in Persona 3 (and 4), there are a couple fake-outs where you get the ‘bad endings’ and such, so you’ll have to be careful. Compared to the true endings, the bad endings are baaaaad.

Persona 4 is so good, and fixes a lot of problems from P3, mainly that you can now control your entire party, There are follow up attacks, the story is there from almost the beginning, and the Social links are a bit more vital. The game is also a bit more forgiving, foregoing the status’ of tired and whatnot. Beyond that, it’s got very deep realistic characters that are easy to identify with and you can become very attached to them. Plus the dungeons are segmented and havve a more important purpose.

I need to get out more…

I think a good number of people will probably tell you to give Persona 4 a shot. It improves almost everything from Persona 3 including giving you the ability to control your party members directly and also party members who you have a level 1 social rank with will almost always jump in front of fatal strikes for you.

It does take a bit of time to get going though setting up the story and it might be a little more chessy anime than you like Spoony, you don’t seem like you’d go for the soundtrack too much but I suppose I have no idea. On the plus side I can confirm that there is no tower to climb and you can summon Satan and Lucifer and you also don’t have to fight the devil or God (kinda).

While I do prefer the plot in persona 3 to 4 but it is a lot better placed. You are getting to the better part of the story, the ending is one of my favourite in any RPG. Oh and there is sort of a storyline reason why the MC from 3 can’t be knocked out but it is still a crazy with the insta death powers. This is something 4 fixes a lot of your issues and you also get to summon two versions of Lucifer in 4 too.

I think a good number of people will probably tell you to give Persona 4 a shot. It improves almost everything from Persona 3 including giving you the ability to control your party members directly and also party members who you have a level 1 social rank with will almost always jump in front of fatal strikes for you.

It does take a bit of time to get going though setting up the story and it might be a little more chessy anime than you like Spoony, you don’t seem like you’d go for the soundtrack too much but I suppose I have no idea. On the plus side I can confirm that there is no tower to climb and you can summon Satan and Lucifer and you also don’t have to fight the devil or God (kinda).

In my opinion, I think you would like Persona 4, but, the little helper/back up person you get for more or less the first half of the game, Teddy something or other can be really, really chatty and can grind on your nerves. The story in Persona 4 is actually that, an actual plot and such. The gameboy games, I think are actually NES games or remakes of said games. The original Persona is coming out pretty soon for PSP, look into that if you like.

In my opinion, I think you would like Persona 4, but, the little helper/back up person you get for more or less the first half of the game, Teddy something or other can be really, really chatty and can grind on your nerves. The story in Persona 4 is actually that, an actual plot and such. The gameboy games, I think are actually NES games or remakes of said games. The original Persona is coming out pretty soon for PSP, look into that if you like.

Oh, something I just remembered. If you can get your hands on them, check out the two Persona 2 games, if only for the fact that you get to fight fucking Hitler.

should try shadow hearts their so weird its awsome

I keep meaning to get into the Shin Megami Tensei series, but everytime I look at all of the games released, I have no clue where to start… I guess I’ll see about picking up Persona 3, since that’s what you recommend at the end.

I’m coming after you if it’s horrid.

should try shadow hearts their so weird its awsome

Persona 3 (or P3FES) is definitely one of my all time favorite games. I dug the S. Link system because I never did all of them on my first playthrough of Persona 3 Vanilla, so when I played FES there was increased replay value in doing the S. Links I missed (although I still did Chariot because Thor is fucking boss). Although I do think the day time/Dark hour ratio should have eventually shifted greater in favor of the latter; I would have appreciated more combat in the game.

I think a lot of people are attracted to the SMT games because the gameplay encourages and rewards proper team balance, strategy and preparation. If you have access to a group of demons or personae that exploit any weaknesses your enemies might have, you won’t really need to do much extra grinding or fusing to defeat certain enemies or bosses (although Matador is still a fucking roadblock for many Nocturne players). Also, while the games can be almost unnecessarily brutal and unfair at times, I think it is those difficulty traits that really level the playing field between you and your opponent, which demands more aggressive, smart and precise strategy (which is something virtually no other contemporary RPG series asks from the player). So basically, the rocky difficulty really demands you be careful and approach things with care and caution; it’s ironic that something that sounds like it should be a given in almost any game is in fact a rather fresh dynamic for JRPGs.

As for the stories, I agree with you Spoony that Nocturne has a wildly awesome premise and conclusion (with a very slim approach to the actual story telling). Persona 3 (and 4 as well) features a more heavy-handed story with deeper characterization, but I think it stubs its toe on that horrible JRPG niche of melodramatic writing. That said, Persona 3 and 4 both feature much more endearing characters with much better dialog and voice acting than shit like Star Ocean and Eternal Sonata (although that isn’t saying much).

Anyway Spoony, if you have an appreciation for good RPG stories, I would definitely suggest Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, and Final Fantasy XII if you have not played those. You might see FFXII get a lock of flak from fans for its story, but listen to them; it’s great, it’s well written and it features probably the best English voice acting and script of any JRPG ever. As long as you can bother to pay attention during cut-scenes, you’ll get a lot out of it. I think many FF-series fans were just disappointed because the story wasn’t bullshit like Final Fantasy X.

Persona 3 (or P3FES) is definitely one of my all time favorite games. I dug the S. Link system because I never did all of them on my first playthrough of Persona 3 Vanilla, so when I played FES there was increased replay value in doing the S. Links I missed (although I still did Chariot because Thor is fucking boss). Although I do think the day time/Dark hour ratio should have eventually shifted greater in favor of the latter; I would have appreciated more combat in the game.

I think a lot of people are attracted to the SMT games because the gameplay encourages and rewards proper team balance, strategy and preparation. If you have access to a group of demons or personae that exploit any weaknesses your enemies might have, you won’t really need to do much extra grinding or fusing to defeat certain enemies or bosses (although Matador is still a fucking roadblock for many Nocturne players). Also, while the games can be almost unnecessarily brutal and unfair at times, I think it is those difficulty traits that really level the playing field between you and your opponent, which demands more aggressive, smart and precise strategy (which is something virtually no other contemporary RPG series asks from the player). So basically, the rocky difficulty really demands you be careful and approach things with care and caution; it’s ironic that something that sounds like it should be a given in almost any game is in fact a rather fresh dynamic for JRPGs.

As for the stories, I agree with you Spoony that Nocturne has a wildly awesome premise and conclusion (with a very slim approach to the actual story telling). Persona 3 (and 4 as well) features a more heavy-handed story with deeper characterization, but I think it stubs its toe on that horrible JRPG niche of melodramatic writing. That said, Persona 3 and 4 both feature much more endearing characters with much better dialog and voice acting than shit like Star Ocean and Eternal Sonata (although that isn’t saying much).

Anyway Spoony, if you have an appreciation for good RPG stories, I would definitely suggest Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, and Final Fantasy XII if you have not played those. You might see FFXII get a lock of flak from fans for its story, but listen to them; it’s great, it’s well written and it features probably the best English voice acting and script of any JRPG ever. As long as you can bother to pay attention during cut-scenes, you’ll get a lot out of it. I think many FF-series fans were just disappointed because the story wasn’t bullshit like Final Fantasy X.

Zach while I did like FFXII my self I am not sure if the story holds up when you look back at it. Mostly because of the ending witch was almost like the ran out of plot ideas and just decided to stick in a character from dbz to end it. However I given the mixed disgin process the game when though I guess it is no surprise some stuff did not mesh. I did love vagrant story, well till the game broke on me >_>

Hey Spoony,

Yeah, I have to agree with the points on P3 FES. The premise is nice but they don’t do much with the story until later, the lack of saving fucks you over in exploring the tower, and to top it off when the main character dies it’s over and you’d think that a being so incredibly important to the feature of mankind would be a bit more important to the team

As for P4, I actually bought Persona 3 FES when it came out around the end of April 08, and I still haven’t finished it. I’m around the end of the first story and haven’t even started the second one, but I managed to get Persona 4 when it came out and there were a lot of improvements!

The storyline is more fleshed out and has a constant guessing game murder mystery going on through the entire plot. If you don’t either read a walk through or keep a journal of every little thing that goes on in the cinemas you will fuck yourself into getting the shitty ending, and the game has like 4 end bosses depending on how well you pay attention. The game gets nuts and I have a feeling if you love SMT for that you’ll have a ball with Persona 4.

The dungeons instead of being one big tower are split up with different themes so it’s not much of a grind. The school system was revamped a bit to have more meaning while generally staying the same as P3. The biggest change was the combat, which is easier and more stream-lined than Persona 3 and now you can actually take control of your team mates instead of that god awful AI. Just like in P3 when the main character dies the show is over, but at least your team realizes that if you die the game ends (not literally, but hey) so as you develop social links with your team they’ll do more things for you, such as early on each member with a lower level link will take a bullet for you if you take a hit that’ll kill you. Doesn’t help with AOEs and AOE instant death, but the game is way more forgiving and a lot more fun.

I have a feeling that if you stuck with Persona 3 that long, you’ll love Persona 4 so much as you DON’T PUT A LOT OF EXTRA THOUGHT INTO IT. The story is fun and fresh but if you REALLY think about it critically analyze it, a lot of it won’t make sense. Like, in general, the game revolves around you going inside of TVs and the only place that has TVs big enough for you to fit through are the Plasmas down at the electronics department of Junes, the JRPG Wal-mart. Apparently your team makes it very much aware that if people saw you jumping into TVs it would add a lot of uncertain questions but you use the same TV to get out as well, and this is the damned electronics department! There’s apparently no security cameras and apparently through the entire game you’re just lucky enough that no one is looking at that TV the moment you decide to jump out if it.

Just ignore stupid mind-bending facts like that and, “roll with it” and you’ll probably like Persona 4 a lot more; though I do think the premise in Persona 3 is a bit more awesome.

Hey Spoony,

Yeah, I have to agree with the points on P3 FES. The premise is nice but they don’t do much with the story until later, the lack of saving fucks you over in exploring the tower, and to top it off when the main character dies it’s over and you’d think that a being so incredibly important to the feature of mankind would be a bit more important to the team

As for P4, I actually bought Persona 3 FES when it came out around the end of April 08, and I still haven’t finished it. I’m around the end of the first story and haven’t even started the second one, but I managed to get Persona 4 when it came out and there were a lot of improvements!

The storyline is more fleshed out and has a constant guessing game murder mystery going on through the entire plot. If you don’t either read a walk through or keep a journal of every little thing that goes on in the cinemas you will fuck yourself into getting the shitty ending, and the game has like 4 end bosses depending on how well you pay attention. The game gets nuts and I have a feeling if you love SMT for that you’ll have a ball with Persona 4.

The dungeons instead of being one big tower are split up with different themes so it’s not much of a grind. The school system was revamped a bit to have more meaning while generally staying the same as P3. The biggest change was the combat, which is easier and more stream-lined than Persona 3 and now you can actually take control of your team mates instead of that god awful AI. Just like in P3 when the main character dies the show is over, but at least your team realizes that if you die the game ends (not literally, but hey) so as you develop social links with your team they’ll do more things for you, such as early on each member with a lower level link will take a bullet for you if you take a hit that’ll kill you. Doesn’t help with AOEs and AOE instant death, but the game is way more forgiving and a lot more fun.

I have a feeling that if you stuck with Persona 3 that long, you’ll love Persona 4 so much as you DON’T PUT A LOT OF EXTRA THOUGHT INTO IT. The story is fun and fresh but if you REALLY think about it critically analyze it, a lot of it won’t make sense. Like, in general, the game revolves around you going inside of TVs and the only place that has TVs big enough for you to fit through are the Plasmas down at the electronics department of Junes, the JRPG Wal-mart. Apparently your team makes it very much aware that if people saw you jumping into TVs it would add a lot of uncertain questions but you use the same TV to get out as well, and this is the damned electronics department! There’s apparently no security cameras and apparently through the entire game you’re just lucky enough that no one is looking at that TV the moment you decide to jump out if it.

Just ignore stupid mind-bending facts like that and, “roll with it” and you’ll probably like Persona 4 a lot more; though I do think the premise in Persona 3 is a bit more awesome.

How far have you got in Persona 3? I am only wondering because it can be a little slow to start, and can explain why you didn’t enjoy it all that much. The cheap shots of the demons is bad, the reason why you die and the game ends is… interesting, believe me. By the way to stop instant death spells killing you get a hold of a few Homonculi (homonculeses?) they throw themselves in the way of dark and light spells and stop you from getting insta gibbed. Personally I did enjoy playing through the school sections, if only because it gave your squadmates, or the random people that you met a nice backstory, so that they weren’t just faceless goons. Some of the tales are a bit OTT (see the 9th chain in the fortune link for ridiculous drama) but its still fun.

Persona 4 doesn’t HAVE a tower! Its somewhat unexpected in a Shin Megami game. Also, the onus is on YOU to do the work in the game, the puzzle that the game is is one stupidly hard fether to solve.

It would be cool to see u do a lets play of the Shin Megami Tensei Series u pick your favorite one and bring us along with u. i have never even heard of the game, but it sound good.:}

You’ll probably like Persona 4. It’s basically like a streamlined P3.

I managed to beat Lucifer’s Call (Nocturne) MOSTLY without a guide (so that probably doesn’t count) but some parts where just OMG. I don’t remember if it was Matador, or Hell Biker, or White Rider or what, but that boss was kicking my ass so much…
And the Mandala dungeon also. Beelzebub and Trumpeter require very careful planing, you need to have the whole battle planed out before you start. You need to have these things written down.

I also don’t know what’s with these SMT games that makes them so appealing, because the can be so unfair, hard and brutal at times, and yet there’s something about them…

Oh, and what ending did you get in Nocturne, because there are many (like 5 or 6). I got the Individual/Solitude ending and I HATED IT. I thought I would like it, because I’m kind of a anti-social guy, but the ending is basically a world that’s a giant desert, and you’re the only one there… that’s it. That’s bullshit.

It would be cool to see u do a lets play of the Shin Megami Tensei Series u pick your favorite one and bring us along with u. i have never even heard of the game, but it sound good.:}

Well, I just finished it (Power went out so I had to rebuffer it…….) and I have numerous comments really, and I hope you read them.

First off, i’ll talk about Nocturne. The game in general IS really famous for how fucking hard it can be, and in a lot of ways, that’s WHY I loved it so much. I will agree that the lack of music/weird art style/bad graphics are very very odd at first, but when I stopped to think about it, I realized that’s exactly what they were going for, they were trying their best to create a “void” feeling to the game, and if you think about it, that’s what it was. I will tell you that I beat it without a guide (I used one to see how to make Metatron/Beelzebub, that’s about it) and I agree, the difficulty can also be bullshit at times (Matador is the cause of many people just outright quiting that game). Oh, and I am surprised you didn’t comment on Dante from DMC in it, or the fact that there’s like……….8-9 endings to the game depending on what you do.

Second game, Digital Devil Saga, my God what a weird ass game. I pretty much completely agree with you there (I personally thought God was a train myself…), but the story has a lot to do with Buddhism and Hinduism (I’m sure you noticed it, it was pretty obvious) and I am sure that caused a lot of stuff to go over your head, it certainly did for me. Oh, and did you know that there’s a cameo boss in Digital Devil Saga 1? It’s the main character of Nocturne and he’s been often called the hardest RPG boss ever made (Now THAT one you need a strategy guide for, there’s WAYYYYY too many bullshit rules to that fight.)

Shin Megami Tensei Raidou vs. The soulless army I never played, but I did play the sequel, and it’s not bad, nothing special, but not bad.

Finally, the Persona series, the black sheep of the SMT series. I personally really like it, but it’s nothing like the others, at all really. All I can really tell you Spoony is that the end boss is COMPLETELY worth it, and you should stick to the game, because it’s pretty awesome. As for Persona 4, I really enjoyed that one as well, they did a number of changes that really worked. For one, there really is no giant tower to it, it’s different dungeons at different times. Another thing they did is they now allow you to control your other party members, which is pretty cool. If you were to ask me which one I liked better, I would actually say I enjoyed 3 more, Yes, Persona 4 has a much better battle system, and it’s a lot less tedious, but I really enjoyed the plot and characters to 3 better (Not saying 4′s is bad, but whatever) and that’s just me. Before I finish on Persona, I might add that Persona 1 and 2 are NOTHING like 3 and 4, they’re a lot more like Nocturne in style (They’re for the PS1, so not as pretty). Although, what really pisses me off, is that Persona 2 is actually 2 games, Persona 2 innocent sin and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, and Innocent Sin never came out in America (Probably because you fight Hitler wielding a holy spear….yeah, seriously, that happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_4RvPvTS0) and Eternal Punishment is a DIRECT SEQUEL to it, which is lame as all hell. Luckily though, there is an English patch out there for the game if you would like to play it.

Not sure what else to say, I am glad you enjoy the series, as you can tell by my wall that I certainly do. If you have any comments, please ask. Oh, and yeah, the spell names are rather odd, but I am so used to them that I can’t say it bothers me all that much.

Well, I just finished it (Power went out so I had to rebuffer it…….) and I have numerous comments really, and I hope you read them.

First off, i’ll talk about Nocturne. The game in general IS really famous for how fucking hard it can be, and in a lot of ways, that’s WHY I loved it so much. I will agree that the lack of music/weird art style/bad graphics are very very odd at first, but when I stopped to think about it, I realized that’s exactly what they were going for, they were trying their best to create a “void” feeling to the game, and if you think about it, that’s what it was. I will tell you that I beat it without a guide (I used one to see how to make Metatron/Beelzebub, that’s about it) and I agree, the difficulty can also be bullshit at times (Matador is the cause of many people just outright quiting that game). Oh, and I am surprised you didn’t comment on Dante from DMC in it, or the fact that there’s like……….8-9 endings to the game depending on what you do.

Second game, Digital Devil Saga, my God what a weird ass game. I pretty much completely agree with you there (I personally thought God was a train myself…), but the story has a lot to do with Buddhism and Hinduism (I’m sure you noticed it, it was pretty obvious) and I am sure that caused a lot of stuff to go over your head, it certainly did for me. Oh, and did you know that there’s a cameo boss in Digital Devil Saga 1? It’s the main character of Nocturne and he’s been often called the hardest RPG boss ever made (Now THAT one you need a strategy guide for, there’s WAYYYYY too many bullshit rules to that fight.)

Shin Megami Tensei Raidou vs. The soulless army I never played, but I did play the sequel, and it’s not bad, nothing special, but not bad.

Finally, the Persona series, the black sheep of the SMT series. I personally really like it, but it’s nothing like the others, at all really. All I can really tell you Spoony is that the end boss is COMPLETELY worth it, and you should stick to the game, because it’s pretty awesome. As for Persona 4, I really enjoyed that one as well, they did a number of changes that really worked. For one, there really is no giant tower to it, it’s different dungeons at different times. Another thing they did is they now allow you to control your other party members, which is pretty cool. If you were to ask me which one I liked better, I would actually say I enjoyed 3 more, Yes, Persona 4 has a much better battle system, and it’s a lot less tedious, but I really enjoyed the plot and characters to 3 better (Not saying 4′s is bad, but whatever) and that’s just me. Before I finish on Persona, I might add that Persona 1 and 2 are NOTHING like 3 and 4, they’re a lot more like Nocturne in style (They’re for the PS1, so not as pretty). Although, what really pisses me off, is that Persona 2 is actually 2 games, Persona 2 innocent sin and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, and Innocent Sin never came out in America (Probably because you fight Hitler wielding a holy spear….yeah, seriously, that happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS_4RvPvTS0) and Eternal Punishment is a DIRECT SEQUEL to it, which is lame as all hell. Luckily though, there is an English patch out there for the game if you would like to play it.

Not sure what else to say, I am glad you enjoy the series, as you can tell by my wall that I certainly do. If you have any comments, please ask. Oh, and yeah, the spell names are rather odd, but I am so used to them that I can’t say it bothers me all that much.

heh the spell names sound awsome in shin megami… reminds me of a similar problem in the phantasy star series… you constantly got spells that you had no idea what the hell they did.

have you played any of the shadow hearts series? if not check out the first two for the ps2 they are like no other rpg you have played.

have you played any of the shadow hearts series? if not check out the first two for the ps2 they are like no other rpg you have played.

I started with Megaten games with one of the GBA games. I forget what they were called, but it was two games with one telling one half of the same story, or something to that effect. It wasn’t very hard, and I enjoy simple RPG’s so I beat it. The whole demonic pokemon thing attracted me, even with the dumbed down nature of it. Not many games have the sheer balls of Megaten games when it comes to storyline.

I then checked out Persona 3 for the PS2 some time later. I never fully got into it. There were a few reasons. The absolute lack of storyline for the early portions, and Tartarus were the big reasons. One of my biggest complaints was the stamina system in Tartarus. You’re forced to grind constantly, but you can only grind so much per day. If you go past it you fatigue the characters and it sets you back days. I think I got to level twenty of Tartarus, there was a boss that I couldn’t beat so I said FU to the game. I hate being forced to level in games.

But I enjoyed it enough to check out Persona 4. Persona 4 is a much better game then Persona 3 in about every way. The combination of relationship building and monster murdering worked far better. The storyline kicks off almost immediately. It’s pretty dark, but in a kind of mystery type of way and not a “Oh no the world is dead~!” way. No Tartarus either, instead each dungeon is based around whatever the storyline is at that given time. Works much better.

The music in Persona 4 is also fantastic, which needs to be mentioned. Backside of the TV and Reach out for the Truth are two fantastic RPG tunes.

One final thing. Devil Survivor on the DS is absolutely ridiculous in it’s difficulty. It’s got a fantastic story and setting, but that game is unfair in every sense of the word. Almost every battle you have after about the 2nd day is stacked against you. Even though I loved the storyline, I finally gave up on it after I felt I got cheated by the game for the fiftieth time by the game’s biased set up’s or silly requirements in missions.

Spoony, I think you’ll like Persona 4. I don’t really get Persona 3 FES, for some of the reasons you also state, but Persona 4 really got me hooked. First thing you’ll notice in the game is that you don’t really see much gameplay, you’ll get a tutorial for the combat system after playing for an hour or two, up until then, you’ll be seeing plot and character development. I really liked that the game gives you these sort of breaks, to get away from all the dungeon crawling and whatnot and instead gives you these small events. For example you go to a summercamp or whatever it is, where the character spends a day or two and you get to pick some awesome disturbing choices, not only at that part in the game, but in some of the others too.

You really should make a “Let’s play” of one of the SMT games. :)
Not Nocturne though. Mostly because I know EXACTLY what you mean about the strategy guide and THE GOD DAMN MATADOR!

Spoony, I think you’ll like Persona 4. I don’t really get Persona 3 FES, for some of the reasons you also state, but Persona 4 really got me hooked. First thing you’ll notice in the game is that you don’t really see much gameplay, you’ll get a tutorial for the combat system after playing for an hour or two, up until then, you’ll be seeing plot and character development. I really liked that the game gives you these sort of breaks, to get away from all the dungeon crawling and whatnot and instead gives you these small events. For example you go to a summercamp or whatever it is, where the character spends a day or two and you get to pick some awesome disturbing choices, not only at that part in the game, but in some of the others too.

You really should make a “Let’s play” of one of the SMT games. :)
Not Nocturne though. Mostly because I know EXACTLY what you mean about the strategy guide and THE GOD DAMN MATADOR!

I played Star Ocean: The Last Hope (rented it) and after 3 hours of gameplay and almost no reward I realized that “The Last Hope” was running to the store and return the rental. That game is fucking brutal with the battle system which I could never ever get the grasp of, and I am not bad with twitch reflexes. Also, the story is so incongruent, even for the first minutes of the game I was completely lost.

Respect Persona, I am lucky enough to get my hands on Persona 4, and you should know it’s no different from what you say about Persona 3, although now you can also improve social abilities by making many friends. Yeah. You make friends with people (and a fox, not kidding) in order to summon demons that rip the spines out of other demons. It makes me want to have more friends on XBox Live all of a sudden.

Also Spoony, MAKE A REVIEW OF LOST ODYSSEY!!! I love that game a lot, but I would love more to hear you and see you tearing it to pieces, I am that much of a masochyst. I don’t care if you make it into a VLog or into a full review, but taking into account how frustrating that game was for you I feel a full video review will be mostly impossible. But really man, I am pretty sure many people will want to know why you don’t like that game at all and why you suffered so much through it. Let’s hope peer pressure can give us a video on that game :-)

VERY LIGHT SPOILERS (No actual details but a bit of abstract references)

I played Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES and I do admit to the flaws Spoony points out. But I believe the game is more of a sum of its parts than the little nitpicks.

But I hope I can be trusted when I say that a little more halfway through the plot suddenly becomes very consistent and engaging. And it might actually seem shallow at first, but what I love with Persona 3 is how the game has a great notion of implying severally moral choices the characters have to go through or even if their actions end up being justified. It’s not just character development like other good RPGs have, it’s making you think.

People say the bad ending sucks but in truth, if you look past it’s “cheapness”, you realize it’s not really a bad ending. It’s more of a choice you took to do what you believed was right (Or because you just wanted to see this ending). Most of the story revolves around that: The choices of the characters and how it affects others, despite them wanting to or not. The whole final moments of the game show just that, how your choice is basically defying everyone else’s. Is it good you’re using your power to kind of dictate your decision over an entire population or did you actually think you were doing the right thing?

This pertaining to the Persona 3 plot. FES actually seems more shallow, just to give some closure to the previous game. But it didn’t have those moments that made you think about what was right. It pretty much was just concluding the story

As for the gameplay, battles can be very cheap but the whole “Monster suddenly exploits your weakness” issue didn’t really happen that much to me. Except in FES which was the hardest of the two and I died enough times with the bosses. But I don’t know. The funky theme with the constantly blasting your head for magic and having a sense of power when you knock everyone down with their weaknesses always made me feel good.

And the relationship system, I just used a guide. It’s the only way to perfectly max everything and get the super awesome strong personas in the end. After that, it was pretty much like extra storyline to see how certain characters developed towards you. Like each one had a life lesson to grow from until you were finally rewarded.

Anyways, you’re halfway through. The game gets much better from here in terms of plot. Finish it. You owe us if you finished Star Ocean. Dx I couldn’t play that past the first battle. They’re so annoying to hear and see. And then make side comments on what you thought of the ending.

VERY LIGHT SPOILERS (No actual details but a bit of abstract references)

I played Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES and I do admit to the flaws Spoony points out. But I believe the game is more of a sum of its parts than the little nitpicks.

But I hope I can be trusted when I say that a little more halfway through the plot suddenly becomes very consistent and engaging. And it might actually seem shallow at first, but what I love with Persona 3 is how the game has a great notion of implying severally moral choices the characters have to go through or even if their actions end up being justified. It’s not just character development like other good RPGs have, it’s making you think.

People say the bad ending sucks but in truth, if you look past it’s “cheapness”, you realize it’s not really a bad ending. It’s more of a choice you took to do what you believed was right (Or because you just wanted to see this ending). Most of the story revolves around that: The choices of the characters and how it affects others, despite them wanting to or not. The whole final moments of the game show just that, how your choice is basically defying everyone else’s. Is it good you’re using your power to kind of dictate your decision over an entire population or did you actually think you were doing the right thing?

This pertaining to the Persona 3 plot. FES actually seems more shallow, just to give some closure to the previous game. But it didn’t have those moments that made you think about what was right. It pretty much was just concluding the story

As for the gameplay, battles can be very cheap but the whole “Monster suddenly exploits your weakness” issue didn’t really happen that much to me. Except in FES which was the hardest of the two and I died enough times with the bosses. But I don’t know. The funky theme with the constantly blasting your head for magic and having a sense of power when you knock everyone down with their weaknesses always made me feel good.

And the relationship system, I just used a guide. It’s the only way to perfectly max everything and get the super awesome strong personas in the end. After that, it was pretty much like extra storyline to see how certain characters developed towards you. Like each one had a life lesson to grow from until you were finally rewarded.

Anyways, you’re halfway through. The game gets much better from here in terms of plot. Finish it. You owe us if you finished Star Ocean. Dx I couldn’t play that past the first battle. They’re so annoying to hear and see. And then make side comments on what you thought of the ending.

btw to me the fighting god story kinda to me sounds like it ripped off Xenogears(prolly one of my favorite console rpgs). Ohh and if you havent played through it i highly reccomend it even though the last part of the game that takes place on the 2nd cd is a complete acid trip.

Spoony, I had just recently bought Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and beaten it. I agree with you that is, indeed, the hardest RPG on the planet. It’s also now my all-time favorite RPG ever.

Please stick with Persona 3 FES and then play though Persona 4 till the end (be sure to get the True Ending). You’ll be pleased with both.

It’s really good to see that someone out there has a sense of trying something new, even though you had many points that I agreed with and many points that I disagreed with.

Love watchin’ your vids dude

Spoony, I had just recently bought Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne and beaten it. I agree with you that is, indeed, the hardest RPG on the planet. It’s also now my all-time favorite RPG ever.

Please stick with Persona 3 FES and then play though Persona 4 till the end (be sure to get the True Ending). You’ll be pleased with both.

It’s really good to see that someone out there has a sense of trying something new, even though you had many points that I agreed with and many points that I disagreed with.

Love watchin’ your vids dude

Don’t worry Spoony, Devil Summoner 2 is a lot better in terms of gameplay than the first one.
Same goes for Persona 4

It’s funny you didn’t like the Lost Odyssey story,as mentioned on Transmission Awesome.I thought they really gave it an incredible story ,where you cared about the people for once.

I agree with you on Star Ocean,the last game has a rather generic story.

It’s funny you didn’t like the Lost Odyssey story,as mentioned on Transmission Awesome.I thought they really gave it an incredible story ,where you cared about the people for once.

I agree with you on Star Ocean,the last game has a rather generic story.

I thought Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Longest Title Ever was pretty good. The real-time battles don’t rely on twitch reflexes all that much, and they aren’t very difficult anyway. In fact, the game being too easy is one of the common complaints against it. I consider it more of an adventure game, the story and atmosphere being the main selling points, which I really liked. It’s not anywhere near as dark as standard SMT fare, though. Talking cat sidekick! Cyborg summoner Rasputin from the future! Loads of silly stuff in there. I thought it was fairly entertaining, anyway.

The sequel is basically more of the same, with the battle system improved a lot. It’s also the first SMT game (AFAIK) that didn’t have Mara cut in the English version. Yes, Mara, the penis wagon, is in the game.

You and I have the VERY EXACT mindset and opinions when talking about Persona 3. I actually made a mental checklist of complaints about that game and you checked every single one of them.

When it comes to why I love Persona 3 (and also 4), it’s simply because of the whole game itself. It’s a half dungeon-crawler and half life simulator. It’s not like Final Fantasy where I’m being helplessly dragged through a linear plot progression of a story I may or may not even care about. Not that majority of my actions in Persona 3 affect the main story though. I’m just that, in this game, at least I’m being given a good amount of freedom on what I want to spend my time on until the game is finished.

Another thing I like about it is that it has a ‘New Game Plus’ feature that carries over most of what I acquired from my previous run through the game. I really think more RPGs should have this feature since having it means there are even more incentives for me to spend my time on something I want to acquire because I’m assured that it will be a permanent reward.

Overall, P3 and P4 are probably the JRPGs I love the most, good and bad things considered.

By the way….

You have no idea how unbalanced this game is but that’s only if you’ve invested enough time playing the entire game for 2 to 3 times, approximately. Basically, it’s possible for you to get a spell that deals 9999 almighty damage to all enemies….and still be able to freely use it again on your next battle. Oh and you also use TEH DEVIL to cast it so if that doesn’t catch your interest then I don’t know what will.

You can guard against mudo and hama by equiping a persona that has immunity….

The idea in Persona 3 was a a focus on character interaction (nearly daily) with a gradual build on the plot and in the top of the screen they tell you what the attack did as it hits, when they tell you a weakness they will usualy say “it’s weakness is fire, do you have any Agi spells?” or something to that effect.

What attracts me is the plot, the characters and it’s a refreshing change from what everything else is, oh and the soundtrack is fantastic.

But I would guess Shin Megami Tensei isn’t for everyone.

You and I have the VERY EXACT mindset and opinions when talking about Persona 3. I actually made a mental checklist of complaints about that game and you checked every single one of them.

When it comes to why I love Persona 3 (and also 4), it’s simply because of the whole game itself. It’s a half dungeon-crawler and half life simulator. It’s not like Final Fantasy where I’m being helplessly dragged through a linear plot progression of a story I may or may not even care about. Not that majority of my actions in Persona 3 affect the main story though. I’m just that, in this game, at least I’m being given a good amount of freedom on what I want to spend my time on until the game is finished.

Another thing I like about it is that it has a ‘New Game Plus’ feature that carries over most of what I acquired from my previous run through the game. I really think more RPGs should have this feature since having it means there are even more incentives for me to spend my time on something I want to acquire because I’m assured that it will be a permanent reward.

Overall, P3 and P4 are probably the JRPGs I love the most, good and bad things considered.

By the way….

You have no idea how unbalanced this game is but that’s only if you’ve invested enough time playing the entire game for 2 to 3 times, approximately. Basically, it’s possible for you to get a spell that deals 9999 almighty damage to all enemies….and still be able to freely use it again on your next battle. Oh and you also use TEH DEVIL to cast it so if that doesn’t catch your interest then I don’t know what will.

P.S.

If you plan on playing Persona 4, I just want to tell you that it has a story that you REALLY REALLY have to pay attention to if want to get the True Ending. It’s a mystery story and you’re really gonna have to play Detective if you want to beat it completely.

P.S.

If you plan on playing Persona 4, I just want to tell you that it has a story that you REALLY REALLY have to pay attention to if want to get the True Ending. It’s a mystery story and you’re really gonna have to play Detective if you want to beat it completely.

I sometimes find it eerie how similar our opinions or experiences turn out to be. I have all the same SMT games, and generally the same levels of progress, although our gameplay experiences have apparently differed a bit.

I picked up Nocturne on a whim and just absolutely loved it. I beat it without a guide — even accidentally doing all of the Kalpas to get the Satan ending — and I don’t recall dying that much. But where I did die was the fucking Matador. It isn’t even that he himself is terribly difficult in comparison with the other bosses, it’s just he’s so early in the game you have literally nothing to throw at him. I also wound up adopting Dante into my party even though after beating the game I jumped on the internet and learned that apparently everyone hates him and he is a “worthless” character.
And man, if the game doesn’t play fair then don’t play fair back. You have something like 8 spots for skills on your main character, and three of mine were elemental absorbs, then I always kept another demon that could absorb the fourth. Any time my party was ever hit with an elemental-all spell the absorbs trumped any weaknesses that might have been around and their turn ended.
I caught on to the elemental spell names pretty quickly, but I will admit some shit like Tentarafoo always gave me the “Fuck. What was that.” feeling. I’m running into some familiar terms in my Hinduism class so I wonder if the words aren’t actually references to an existing language. For example, the cycle of rebirth is Samsara, and there are Kalpas that refer to dharmic duty.
I really feel like the bleakness is a mixture of intended and budget. I think it was more along the lines of “This game is going to be bleak as shit, don’t even put sound in this subway station.” “Well good, we can’t afford more sounds.”

DDS I’ve actually played all the way to the last dungeon and just. That story really went to nonsense near the end, I should pop it in for an hour to go beat this alleged pillar God just to say I’ve beaten it. I really, really prefer the first half.
Also I’ve heard that as a secret boss in the first half you can actually unlock a battle with the main character from Nocturne after having done the Satan ending, and he is regarded as the hardest boss battle the RPG world has ever known, a strength surpassed only by the power of his cheapness.

We are of one mind on the issue of Devil Summoner. I played maybe a little longer, but really didn’t get into it and got annoyed by the real time combat. It’s not even just the fact that it’s real time, it’s that real time combat is so very rarely done right in RPGs. Either give me strategy or give me high-paced action, don’t muddle up a middle ground for me to wallow in.

Also “stuck” at the very end of Persona 3, just needing to find the will to put it into the system and do the last month or two. I mean I have Satan, shouldn’t that be motivation enough? I checked a demon list to try and find other inspiring personas slightly beyond my level and found that one of the highest level personas is one called “Messiah” who is essentially a generalized Jesus. So in my party I could have Satan, Jesus, Odin, Thor, and Thanatos. Why haven’t I gotten back to this game?
Which is even worse considering I own Persona 4 and have yet to unwrap it — even though I wouldn’t be spoiling anything from 3 — just because I know I will never finish 3 if I start 4. I’ve heard wonderful things, that all sorts of positive changes are involved and the characters have tangible depth, et cetera.
But if you want to talk hard, the mini-bosses (not the actual bosses, mind you) are some of the most unforgivable sons of bitches I’ve ever had to tussle with. These are fights where I die repeatedly and have to go fuse together a band-aid over my party composition, or in worst case scenarios actually boot out one of my main party members so I can go powerlevel one with a less abuseable weakness. I love it, but goddamn.

I’ve tried playing the old SNES games, but I really have trouble both with first person dungeon crawling and with not being able to see my demons during combat. It’s hard to get into it when I just have some text that claims I have Odin in my party, and I have to go check Status to see that he is, in fact, backing me up.

If I had to pin down what I love about the series most it’d probably be the originality, the mythology, and the difficulty. Those three terms encapsulate SMT to me. Could it use stronger stories? Definitely. Are the instant death skills bullshit? Every single time. In Persona 3 I do not fight new demons without first equipping a demon with Null Dark and Null Holy, which I take special precautions to make sure every major persona I use has, passed along genetically as skills.
But I’m still waiting for a sequel to Nocturne, for Shin Megami Tensei 4. All this Persona business is alright, but I miss the creepier art style that Devil Summoner is currently hogging. And if they could manage to actually take advantage of some next gen technology while they were at it? I would pay so much more than the standard 60 bucks for that.

Sorry for the novel, but you DID ask for thoughts.
Keep up the good work, Spoony.

I wonder if Spoony ever played Xenogears for the original PS1. That one is a really god turn based RPG with great plot and great gameplay, especially since you can play as human and robot. Really recommend it for any turn-based RPG fan.

I wonder if Spoony ever played Xenogears for the original PS1. That one is a really god turn based RPG with great plot and great gameplay, especially since you can play as human and robot. Really recommend it for any turn-based RPG fan.

God, I love SMT. Well, at least the PS2 ones I’ve played.

Well, I really liked Persona 3, but I think you’ll like 4 more based on your complaints. It’s much easier to return to base without losing progress and the plot builds a little more evenly. You will still have to sit through really long parts of the characters just talking though, i’ve noticed myself saying the “I just want to fight some monsters” more while playing it. I’d say its worth trying though, especially if you already have it. I haven’t finished the game yet though.

I’m not sure what attracts me to the series yet though… I’ve only played Persona 3 and 4 but I’m planning on trying out the rest of the PS2 ones.

Well, I really liked Persona 3, but I think you’ll like 4 more based on your complaints. It’s much easier to return to base without losing progress and the plot builds a little more evenly. You will still have to sit through really long parts of the characters just talking though, i’ve noticed myself saying the “I just want to fight some monsters” more while playing it. I’d say its worth trying though, especially if you already have it. I haven’t finished the game yet though.

I’m not sure what attracts me to the series yet though… I’ve only played Persona 3 and 4 but I’m planning on trying out the rest of the PS2 ones.

I also have SMT games, i have Nocturne, Devil Summoner, Digital Devil Saga 1&2 and both Persona 3 Fes and Persona 4.

I love all of them and played through them all except for Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga 2.

Persona 3 FES was my personal favourite for the longest time, though i do agree it had points that made it frustrating, but the plot and characters made it all worth it. The boss is pretty cool too, especially the music they play in the backround, i love that one.

But then came Persona 4. God, i love that game so much… the many frustrating points that bothered Persona 3 were fixed, though some still remained. You will probably get into it a lot more than P3, especially since there is a very intriquing and deep murder/mystery plot that starts soon and doesn’t let up.

Anyways, cool video and hope to see more in the future!

- Zelix

PS: I live in Europe, and over here SMT: Nocturne is known as “SMT: Lucifer’s Call” and features a bonus character: Danter from Devil May Cry series, and if played right you can attain him as an ally.

For me, the biggest draw of the SMT series is the setting. The use of mythical creatures in a modern day, or at least, post-industrial revolution setting is something you really don’t see in games much. I just really love mythology and I love urban/modern fantasy, so SMT captures that perfectly for me. The fact that you can also talk to, recruit, barter, and reason with the enemies instead of just beating them up also lends a very interesting aspect to the story and the feeling of the world.

Granted, that’s mainly in Nocturne out of the PS2 games, but I also liked Nocturne because the minimalist story also felt very epic. Truly epic. Most RPGs want you to save the world, and well, yeah, eventually, you end up saving the world. That’s great and all, but its pretty much a cliche. SMT: Nocturne is one of the few games where I honest to god felt like my actions really had a stake in the fate of the world, in part because the world ended and you have to determine its future, and there’s multiple ways it could go.

DDS I really enjoyed the conflict of the inner demon and the newly emerging human personalities in the characters. The development of the characters as the story went on was really neat to watch, although I felt DDS2 crammed a shitton into one game at almost too fast a pace, compaired to DDS1, which was basicaly a slow, well-paced build up.

Devil Summoner, I thought that was fun, and I liked the setting of the 1920s. As you say, its very pulp-fictiony, and again, combining the mythical aspect with a more modernized setting (and in this case, a very distinct recent-historical era setting) is just atmospheric gold for me. See the Shadow Hearts series for a compairable feel. Devil Summoners use of demon powers on the field was also something I thought was a very cool concept that I really believe future SMT games could benefit from, as it added a more interactive aspect to the demons beyond the combat screen. However, the gameplay in DS did get a little dull.

I played the original P3, and was shocked to know that the FES expansion had actually made it to america! I liked P3, but after playing it, I felt no real desire to play it again, even with the expansion pack in place. The story gets a little more interesting later on, but admittedly, I did see pretty much everything coming, except for the very end, which I found needlessly depressing. After watching the FES cutscenes on the YouTube, however, it does alleviate some of that.

Haven’t played P4, and probably won’t as I don’t play games much at all anymore.

I have played the original SNES SMT. Its… hard to play nowadays. Very dated, first person perspective dungeon crawling always raises my hackles. Also played Persona 1, hated it for the same reasons. Haven’t played the two Persona 2 games, but probably wouldn’t anyway.

Devil Kids, or whatever the Gameboy Advance games were called were kind of “meh.” They were obviously SMT games made for little kids, and have a much more typical “young kids save the world!” storyline, and equally cliche characters. It really does feel more like SMT as redone in a Pokemon/Digimon style. Characters and monster models are needlessly cutesy, but the environment/level graphics are nice and colorful. Still, the plot thread of the time rips and the bit of time travel that we see make for interesting plot points that were mostly skipped over.

For me, the biggest draw of the SMT series is the setting. The use of mythical creatures in a modern day, or at least, post-industrial revolution setting is something you really don’t see in games much. I just really love mythology and I love urban/modern fantasy, so SMT captures that perfectly for me. The fact that you can also talk to, recruit, barter, and reason with the enemies instead of just beating them up also lends a very interesting aspect to the story and the feeling of the world.

Granted, that’s mainly in Nocturne out of the PS2 games, but I also liked Nocturne because the minimalist story also felt very epic. Truly epic. Most RPGs want you to save the world, and well, yeah, eventually, you end up saving the world. That’s great and all, but its pretty much a cliche. SMT: Nocturne is one of the few games where I honest to god felt like my actions really had a stake in the fate of the world, in part because the world ended and you have to determine its future, and there’s multiple ways it could go.

DDS I really enjoyed the conflict of the inner demon and the newly emerging human personalities in the characters. The development of the characters as the story went on was really neat to watch, although I felt DDS2 crammed a shitton into one game at almost too fast a pace, compaired to DDS1, which was basicaly a slow, well-paced build up.

Devil Summoner, I thought that was fun, and I liked the setting of the 1920s. As you say, its very pulp-fictiony, and again, combining the mythical aspect with a more modernized setting (and in this case, a very distinct recent-historical era setting) is just atmospheric gold for me. See the Shadow Hearts series for a compairable feel. Devil Summoners use of demon powers on the field was also something I thought was a very cool concept that I really believe future SMT games could benefit from, as it added a more interactive aspect to the demons beyond the combat screen. However, the gameplay in DS did get a little dull.

I played the original P3, and was shocked to know that the FES expansion had actually made it to america! I liked P3, but after playing it, I felt no real desire to play it again, even with the expansion pack in place. The story gets a little more interesting later on, but admittedly, I did see pretty much everything coming, except for the very end, which I found needlessly depressing. After watching the FES cutscenes on the YouTube, however, it does alleviate some of that.

Haven’t played P4, and probably won’t as I don’t play games much at all anymore.

I have played the original SNES SMT. Its… hard to play nowadays. Very dated, first person perspective dungeon crawling always raises my hackles. Also played Persona 1, hated it for the same reasons. Haven’t played the two Persona 2 games, but probably wouldn’t anyway.

Devil Kids, or whatever the Gameboy Advance games were called were kind of “meh.” They were obviously SMT games made for little kids, and have a much more typical “young kids save the world!” storyline, and equally cliche characters. It really does feel more like SMT as redone in a Pokemon/Digimon style. Characters and monster models are needlessly cutesy, but the environment/level graphics are nice and colorful. Still, the plot thread of the time rips and the bit of time travel that we see make for interesting plot points that were mostly skipped over.

I can’t believe you didn’t like Eternal Sonata. True, it’s not the best game, but don,t put it on the same level as Star Ocean 4, that game was just fucking horrible!

Star Ocean 3 and its story are great
next best RPG after FF series
and persona kicks so much ass, you can’t even argue
plus good music in all those games

Star Ocean 3 and its story are great
next best RPG after FF series
and persona kicks so much ass, you can’t even argue
plus good music in all those games

If You like Summoning Demons you should Try Shadow Hearts 1, 2 and 3.
I love that game but not alot of people knew about it….(In my Country)

I’ve only played Persona 4 but it sounds like Persona 3 with the problems fixed (strong story, you don’t lose if the MC dies and you can control everyone and it sounds like the school parts may be shorter.)

Hopefully you’ll review that one eventually.

I’ve only played Persona 4 but it sounds like Persona 3 with the problems fixed (strong story, you don’t lose if the MC dies and you can control everyone and it sounds like the school parts may be shorter.)

Hopefully you’ll review that one eventually.

How is having an all-out battle against God atheistic? :P

Surely an atheistic game wouldn’t have any Gods in it. :P

Nocturne was hard, but I didn’t find it as murderously tough as you described it. I played it, from start to finish, without a strategy guide of any kind. Nocturne was also my first Shin Megami Tensei game, that I’d rented spur of the moment (so it’s not like I was some kind of die hard fan at the time). I don’t consider myself to be that great of a player, which is why I think that any game that I can beat without any help can’t really be that difficult.

There were a couple of choke points, but persistence and logic got me through them relatively quickly. The hardest part was the bonus boss of the “true demon” ending (you get this if you complete the labyrinth of Amala). That fight just comes out of nowhere, after you’ve just finished off the final boss. I don’t remember if the game even bothers to heal you between the fights. It also doesn’t help that ALL of this boss’ attacks are of the unblockable “Almighty” element, and that only one type of attack can really hurt him, and you’re in for a VERY long fight if you don’t have an almighty-based attack that can do decent damage.

About Star Ocean. I really enjoyed Star Ocean: Till the End of Time for the Playstation 2. I just now got my hands on The Last Hope for the Xbox 360 and I’m thinking of selling it because I just … can’t … stand … the voice acting. This game is raping my ears until they bleed. So far this game is not appealing to me.

Odd that you didn’t much care for Persona 3. It’s one of my all-time favorites, to be honest. To answer your question about the Megaten games in general, they appeal to me because they are more mature than the majority of RPGs out there, rely much less on JRPG stereotypes, are more original in terms of setting and characterization, and is really not afraid to push the limits of what is acceptable to put in a game. This is especially true for American audiences, who might be a little put off at the concept of killing God or summoning a demon that looks like a giant fanged penis riding a cart.

In recent years I have yet to come across an RPG that can grab my attention like a Megaten game. They beat the hell out of parading around the globe with a group of colorful spiky haired kids to gather the ancient macguffins to overthrow the evil empire and slay the eldritch abomination to save the world for the 14 billionth time.

Big fan of the Mega-Ten series. But I’ll be honest, I’ve never actually finished one.

In Nocturne, (Lucifer’s Call here in the UK) I got to the bit with the 3 weird big black pyramids, I beat 2 and fused all my guys together (losing all their magics) and found that in the 3rd temple EVERYTHING has physical immunity. Managed to get to the Boss of that temple once, but with almost no Magic I couldn’t even hurt the F*cker.

In Digital Devil saga i was really into it but made the mistake of buying it a fortnight before i got my PS3, so not really been back to it, bought the 2nd one too but wanted to finish the first one before i got to it.

Also recently got Devil Summoner for the DS, but I’m really not into Tactics games, giving it my best shot tho and it is seeming to be really good fun, if you enjoy tactics style rpgs at all i would recommend it. Hell, I like it and i hate teh style of gameplay so it must be pretty good.

Dunno what it is about the games, mostly just the HUGE selection of teams and demons you can make up, and there’s something about a game that is ‘Nintendo hard’ that is really gratifying to play every once in a while. Even tho the story is usually quite weak the gameplay is just so versatile that you really can’t hate it if you enjoy RPGs even a little.

ok about SMT:FES,That was a good game and I can say they kept the strange storyline that they are good for and the ending made me unnerved for about two days but nothing can compare to Persona 1&2 on the playstation out of those two Persona 2 : Eternal Punishment has to be the best,because Persona 1 I found to be too easy but fun BEATING THE SH*T out of other demons with TEH DEVIL!!! and just finding out about the corp. that is causing the demon world to mix with yours.Persona 2 was one HELL of a head trip and picks on your fear of what others can do to you or what would happen to you if you wished ill on others,plus I liked the voice acting,and the fact there is a guy called “The Joker”…yea not kidding the joker and the fact that his laughter is just as creepy maybe even more so.Persona games are all in all great games if you are into games that play on the human mind and have a dark story that leaves you saying “WTF WAS THAT!!!”
and yes I am looking at you SMT: FES…

I didn’t like Persona 3, and 4 looks like more of the same, I wish the series would go back the super dark story of the earlier games. I love P2 Eternal Punishment, now story is dark, not this silly suicide summoning thing. I don’t know though, i guess i would rather be spending time chasing after a demonic serial killer than going the school and running up a poorly made tower over and over again. Man i miss the joker (different joker, has a paper bag on his head) he was a fun villain.

You can defend again instant death spells, hama and mudo using Homunculi

Persona has the best final boss ever

Hey Spoony, been following you for a LONG time. (Not a stalker. ;D) But this really caught my attention because I’m a BIG fan of Shin Megami Tensei and Persona. I’ve only played and finished Persona 3 and 4 but I intend to get the other games. Including Nocturne and it’s constant strategy guide reliability, or so I’ve heard.

Anyway, I’m sure you’ll LOVE Persona 3. The ending is just… MIND BLOWING I mean, you’ll be sitting eating cereal a few days after you finish it and just BREAKDOWN into your bowl after suddenly taking in the whole meaning of the game and the sheer CRAP you went through with the cheating AI system and Hama/Mudo spells. The only game to give you a face full of Cheerio’s, guaranteed.

As for Persona 4… Definitely go and get it, it’s strange because it’s actually a bit of a CSI mix this time, along with school and summoning TEH DEVILS!11! along with crime solving. However, this game kept me enthralled from beginning to end. SMT also seemed to fix the almost tedious time skip that was left in Persona 3 until a certain part of the game. With P4, you’re hooked all the way, or at least I was. Phenomenal stuff.

Anyway, wish you luck and to finish those games as fast as you can. It’s so spoiler ridden, the moment you pick up the controller you shouldn’t even type in Persona online in fear of some jack ass spoiling it, trust me. So glad I finished them before I looked up anything on Google.

So, I leave you with this. ;) Don’t worry, it’s not a spoiler, sure you’ll get some laughs out of it. Have fun!

http://chibileon.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/mitsuruai.jpg

~Switchback

Hey, Spoony.

Hey, hey.

Guess what.

I have a secret.

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATADOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR

I liked P4 much more than 3, your party members will gain the ability to take a killing blow for you once per fight so you’ll sorta have 3 extra “lives” so you wont die so easily but they wont cover for area effect spells so you can still die cheaply.
You can also control your party freely and the story will be there from the beginning where in P3 it took a while to really start.
Its just a superior game in many areas and I think you’ll like it too.

Personally I loved Star Ocean 3 but I do admit that it is pretty long and might be too much for some. It still doesn’t change my own thoughts about it.

Some others have recommended it already but I’ll do so as well: pick up Shadow Hearts: Covenant if you already haven’t. It’s the second game of the series but doesn’t require any previous knowledge of the series before hand( I sure hadn’t played the first game when I picked it up and afterwards it was easy to see the improvements from the first game). I assure you, no other game handles humor quite the same way as the series does. And it is entertaining by its other values as well. So if you have never played it, I would suggest doing so.

I beat Nocturne on Hard Mode. Even kicked Lucifer’s ass too. THIS GAME IS HARD. It truly pushes your patience to the limit, and then pulls your hair out while you’re playing. However, it is extremely satisfying to know that you’ve just beaten one of the hardest RPGs ever, and did it in Hard Mode. The only reason I played in Hard Mode is because my friend did the same thing, and I wanted to prove something. Crazy, but it kept me motivated throughout the game.

I did use a strategy guide, but only for minor stuff (mostly in the beginning). I usually just glance at the bosses’ weaknesses, just so I don’t have to waste time casting every single spell just to find out. There were only a few bosses that I just couldn’t have beaten without having the guide in front of me from beginning to end. (Trumpeteer, Red Rider, Lucifer and a few others I don’t remember)

[split into two, as I can't seem to post this comment]

Hey Spoony,

I really wondered for quite some time now what are your impressions about Shin Megami Tensei series, and I’m happy that you consider it better than most modern jRPGs. I personally got into SMT about two years ago. At first I didn’t even know about other games of the series, as I started from Persona 3 (like probably most fresh fans). Yeah, it was the overall concept of combining jRPG with a date/school sim that appealed to me, together with just tons of positive reviews all over the Internet. And although I enjoyed it at first, the Tartarus part was really poorly done, with monotonous floors, bad music and some unforgiving difficulty. As you said, it wasn’t hard, but after over an hour of fighting shadows, you could encounter an enemy that would kill you in one round, just exploiting your weakness. And that made me set the game aside for some time. In the meantime I bought Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2. The story seemed great, and I really enjoyed the game, even though there were very little side-quests or puzzles, but what bored me a little were constant battles. It’s just that I wanted to unlock the most powerful Mantras, and defeat the optional bosses, but for that I needed huge amount of money, which required hours of monster killing. And, once again, I set this game aside too.

But I think it was the third approach to Persona 3 that really got me into the game for good. Perhaps it’s, as you’ve said, the story, which I think was really great and often surprising, with quite a few unpredictable events and twists. And this time I got into the battles for good, enjoying fusing demons and fighting bosses. Although it took me about 100 hours to beat the game (add 30 more for The Answer) I really enjoyed both the story and the gameplay. It was a fun experience, one that I hope to redo after Persona 3 Portable is released.

Not long after I finished P3 FES, Persona 4 got released. I got into the game really quickly. The most important thing is that the battle system got way better than Persona 3. So much, that I thought I’ll never be able to go back playing P3 anymore. First of all, you can control all your party members, which helps a lot during boss battles, and removes all issues concerning horrible ally AI. Yeah, the AI is bad in both P3 and P4, but this time you can only blame yourself when you turn ally control off. What is more, building up social-links with your party members influences their performance during battle. The most important one is the ability to cover your main character from a deadly attack. Although the death of the main character still equals game over, it’s not so frequent now. Besides, your party members don’t get tired, each dungeon section has only about 10 levels, and you can go back to the floor you left from without any checkpoints. As such, you can finish the whole dungeon part in one day, and spend the rest of the week on improving statistics and social-links. I don’t know if it was the experience I gained from P3, but overall I thought the game to be much easier. Not only ally abilities help a lot during battles, and your party won’t get tired, but also abilities like Cool Breeze or Victory Cry are very easy to get. Combine this with items rising your SP by 50%, or adding additional 100 points of it, and you’ll be practically invincible. I played on Normal difficulty setting and only the final boss was somewhat difficult. As for the story, I think it wasn’t as good as Persona 3, but it’s still better than most jRPGs offer. However, the characters were way much better. Contrary to Persona 3, this time you could really feel the bond of friendship between them, not only the common goal or Persona abilities. It may sound silly, but I really enjoyed most of their adventures, not only connected with the main plot. This time they seemed as real people with real problems. I don’t know how you’ll perceive it, Spoony, considering you’re not a big Anime fan (afaik), but I think Persona 4 characters are some of the best I’ve ever seen in a video game.

Right after finishing Persona 4, I felt an urge to finally beat both DDS, and although I had some complaints, I still consider the game to be one of the best jRPGs on Playstation 2. What I didn’t like, was already mentioned cash problem, and total lack of puzzles or anything similar in DDS2. Also, the bosses were kind of annoying, as you couldn’t change your skills in the middle of a battle. You had to fight the boss, find out its weaknesses and strengths, load the game, prepare your party with appropriate abilities, and then fight it the second time. Nevertheless, the story was intriguing, despite the ending, and the overall dark atmosphere made it unique and interesting, unlike all those mass produced fairy-tale jRPGs with pink bunnies and deadly mushrooms as enemies. And the music was awesome, especially during the final battle – you’ve got to admit that ;>.

[to be continued]

[umm... three?]

Right after finishing Persona 4, I felt an urge to finally beat both DDS, and although I had some complaints, I still consider the game to be one of the best jRPGs on Playstation 2. What I didn’t like, was already mentioned cash problem, and total lack of puzzles or anything similar in DDS2. Also, the bosses were kind of annoying, as you couldn’t change your skills in the middle of a battle. You had to fight the boss, find out its weaknesses and strengths, load the game, prepare your party with appropriate abilities, and then fight it the second time. Nevertheless, the story was intriguing, despite the ending, and the overall dark atmosphere made it unique and interesting, unlike all those mass produced fairy-tale jRPGs with pink bunnies and deadly mushrooms as enemies. And the music was awesome, especially during the final battle – you’ve got to admit that ;>.

Right after finishing those games I bough Devil Summoner and Nocturne (Lucifer’s Call, as it is called here in Europe). As for the first one, it is definitely different, but not necessarily bad. First of all, it’s easy. And I mean really easy for the most part. Practically you’ll finish most battles just mashing the attack button, occasionally supporting yourself with some spell. What is more, the battles aren’t that well done in terms of flashiness, and the music is quickly becoming tiring. Nevertheless, what makes the game more attractive than many other SMT titles is the overall combination of RPG and an adventure game. This time, demons not only help you in battle, but in the real world as well. You can use some of their abilities to, let’s say, read the mind of some NPCs, fly into unreachable places, find hidden items and so on. Unlike many of the other SMT games, you’ll spend most time finishing quests, solving some mysteries, talking with people etc. And although this part of the game is also easy for the most part, I enjoyed it, as well as the story. If you say you played it only for about 10 minutes, you haven’s seen much. It may not be one of the best SMT out there, especially considering the low budget visual and audio part, but it’s an OK game, worth giving it a try.

As for Devil Summoner 2, I can’t say much except that the battles seemed way better on the trailer. Unfortunately, KOEI has no plans of releasing the game in Europe, and the game is way too expensive for import, especially with that large box of its. I still hope to get it one day though.

The last game I played was Nocturne (Lucifer’s Call). You probably won’t believe me, but I think Digital Devil Saga was way more difficult than this. Perhaps it was the fact that I already beat most Shin Megami Tensei games on the PS2, but I had very little problems with Nocturne. Yeah, there were times I needed to look on gamefaqs, but it’s not like I had to play with the game guide all the time. In fact, the presence of ghosts/souls around made it even easier to prepare for boss battles, as they often informed you about the next enemy, it’s strengths and weaknesses. Like, it tells you that “there is a guy with a powerful demon that is invulnerable to physical attacks” (Girimehkala). Or that there’s “Lord of the Flies on the next floor”, suggesting Beelzebub casting Death spells. And even if there were some difficulties, you could swap your demons in the middle of a fight. What is more, spells like Sukukaja, raising hit/evasion, were a must here. I never used these in other jRPS to be honest, but here they often were the key to victory. During the first battle with Dante, the guy didn’t hit me even once, as he couldn’t dispel my stat increase spells. Yeah, there were some harder battles, like the infamous Matador, but it’s all about strategy. I failed the first time I got to him, but beat him right after that. As far as I remember, I only died a couple of times during the entire game. The ones I remember were the Matador, and one of the bosses at the end, which suddenly made himself invulnerable to physical attacks, while I used Focus + some strong phys technique. Fail ;>. But besides that, I don’t think it was as hard as many people claim. As I said, perhaps it was the experience with other SMT, carefully performed fusions etc. But I never got annoyed or anything.
As for the story, it was pretty good. Mainly because, again, of its darker, more serious approach, creepy demons and locations, and numerous religious references. Good stuff.
What I find funny about the game, is that here in Europe, it got 12+ age rating. It’s not that I care or anything (even I played GTA or Carmageddon when I was a kid ;>), but it’s amazing, especially considering that other SMT games are 16+, while being less disturbing than Nocturne/Lucifer’s Call. I mean, seriously, dark storyline, demons, occultism, erotic and even gay undertones… hell, you could even see penises on some of the demons, not to mention one big phallus monster (Mara) as an optional-boss. Yeah… 12+ is OK for that…

tbc…

By the bye, I’ll explain Digital Devil Saga in an attempt to enhance your experience with the game.

For those uninterested in spoilers, please skip the following!

As you realized, the Junkyard was a Matrix-type environment; it was created by Sera in order to escape the rigorous tortures imposed upon her by the evil corporation and, surprisingly enough, the real-life version of Serph (who was an absolute dick; his matrix form is completely different).

The evil corporation was experimenting upon children in order to communicate with God. They believed that children were inherently more connected to God through a combination of purity and willingness to believe. Also, the children they used were psychic. SCIENCE? They wanted to study him and figure out what’s up with him. Again, SCIENCE.

One day, God saw that Sera really disliked being tortured and experimented on. And he got FUCKING PISSED. He made the sun turn people into salt ala the Biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. God wants to destroy the world as penance for the atrocities committed upon the psychic children. But, it takes a while.

The fight at the end of the game is Seraph approaching God and pleading that he fix everything wrong with the world. He demands a fight to prove humanity’s devotion to saving itself. The reason he’s a giant pillar is two-fold: he’s a reference to the Amala columns found everywhere in Nocturne, and to the gigantic spaceship-robot thing from Macross. Beating him calms him down and the sun becomes normal again.

Then Seraph realizes (s)he’s also a god and goes around to travel the world with her kitty friend. Or something.

SPOILERS OVER

As for other info:

I got through Nocturne without a guide, dohoho. I have a really fucking good memory for useless shit so I could remember all the weaknesses.

Also, I posted Matador before I finished the video. Funny you reference him, heh.

The enjoyment of the Shin Megami Tensei series, for me, comes from my absolute love of mythology. It’s like a nerd mythology fantasy. It’s so awesome. They also have an interesting view of the divine and the unholy. God is a static being who desires the world to remain exactly the same as it is, always and forever. Satan wants entropy to build up and to beat the “tyranny” of God.

If you’ve got a DS, I’d really recommend Devil Survivor. It’s pretty fucking cool. It’s some sort of combination of Final Fantasy Tactics and Dragon’s Quest. Balls hard too.

Good luck to you, Spoony. I’ll save you if you need help, doho.

SMT is actually my favorite RPG series; I’m glad you seem to be enjoying them despite their faults. That said, Persona 4 is a huge improvement on 3 FES in all respects; gameplay, story wise, character wise, pacing, etc. I think you’ll really enjoy it when you end up playing it.

Ah man, I couldn’t beat the Matador either! Although that’s where I gave up on Nocturne (I may go back to it someday).

But, I also got a sick pleasure of summoning the Matador in Persona 4 (If you’re reading this Spoony, yes you can summon the FUCKING MATADOR!) And just spamming Mudo spells on monsters. Although he’s probably in most of the other games too and I just haven’t seen him XD.

But yeah, P4 fixes a lot of P3′s problems. You’ll love it.

Haven’t beaten Digital Devil Saga or Devil Summoner yet, but I like them… so far, anyway. I look forward to finishing DDS though, going by what you said about it.

People like Megami Tensei because they tend to be masochistic. I’d say it’s a moot point to complain about how unfair and ridiculous the games tend to be; that’s essentially the point, to make you want to bash your head in from frustration. As you said, it makes it all the more rewarding when you finally finish, knowing that most other games nowadays are for complete pussies who want their hand held to the end.

Also, it’s YHVH, not God. The series distinguishes between the two.

Spoony, I’m surprised you can sit through Persona 3 at all.
It’s a TERRIBLE game. Horrible stop and go with the story, horrible characters, mostly horrible music (that loops, ugh!), monotomous battles and social networking. Plus the fact it’s like several Newgrounds simulation RPGs rolled into one. Plus the story is seriously too bland and cute for the Persona series. I will agree it can be addicting but after playing halfway through it, it lost its charm on me real quick and I sold it off. Good riddance!

What you should play are the first two (or three rather) Persona games on the PSX:

Persona: Revelations
Persona 2: Innocent Sin (not released in the US but there is a translated ROM floating around on the net)
Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (the direct follow up to Innocent Sin)

These games are far superior in every way. Good characters, good story, fun battles. Plus what’s nice about the games is the stories are actually quite dark and horror thematic. Not to mention the story is set up off the bat but you can choose if you want to continue forward or goof around at your own free will rather than being tied to that horrible simulation/social network drivel as being the drive. Another thing that I love about these games and absolutely despise Persona 3 for dropping is the fact you can talk/negotiate with the demons. I don’t know if this can be done in any other of the Shin Megami Tensei games since I never played the rest but I always found this quite a unique feature and loved utilizing it. When Persona 3 dropped it for derivative horseshit, I was very displeased.

Seriously, go to Romulation, get an account and download the PSX Persona games. They are far more worth your time.

First off, I would like to say that the star ocean games get alot better once you get to about the half way mark and get a lot of customization over your characters, then it becomes a “how badly can I twist the game mechanics into submission to be as overpowered as possible” fest. The game really banks alot on story when it honestly doesn’t have a good story, but i think the gameplay really saves it.

Reguarding Persona 3..
It’s a really hard game to defend but it is pretty good. The fact that half the game is a glorified dating sim actually helps, as messed up as that sounds it actually mixes up the formula and gives you some variety. The combat of it is rather simplistic, but there is some elegance in its simplicity. It is still more complicated then the whole “mash attack until you need to heal” that shows up is so many turn based rpg’s i have played, i don’t know it always seems to take me out of an rpg when there is no character movement or placement because i just always see that as a very important part of strategy. Either way now i’m rambling, but i would quickly like say that persona 4 handles the story alot better (in that it actually has a story that shows up like an hour in and its pretty engaging) and also polishes up alot of gameplay aspects.

First off, I would like to say that the star ocean games get alot better once you get to about the half way mark and get a lot of customization over your characters, then it becomes a “how badly can I twist the game mechanics into submission to be as overpowered as possible” fest. The game really banks alot on story when it honestly doesn’t have a good story, but i think the gameplay really saves it.

Reguarding Persona 3..
It’s a really hard game to defend but it is pretty good. The fact that half the game is a glorified dating sim actually helps, as messed up as that sounds it actually mixes up the formula and gives you some variety. The combat of it is rather simplistic, but there is some elegance in its simplicity. It is still more complicated then the whole “mash attack until you need to heal” that shows up is so many turn based rpg’s i have played, i don’t know it always seems to take me out of an rpg when there is no character movement or placement because i just always see that as a very important part of strategy. Either way now i’m rambling, but i would quickly like say that persona 4 handles the story alot better (in that it actually has a story that shows up like an hour in and its pretty engaging) and also polishes up alot of gameplay aspects.

I love Persona 3 because you kind of have to be a Clark Kent kind of a dude. You are rewarded for being personable and basically sucking up to people, when at night you have to face possible death and fight monsters most people don’t know about.

My search for another Eternal Sonata hater is finally complete. Searched for 2 years and couldn’t find someone who felt the same about the game as me. I can rest in peace now.
Thanks

I beat Nocturne once without a strategy guide. But I am in no way BRAGGING about that though because it took me TWO MONTHS and I was pretty much just guessing the whole time and I had to die and fight the demon monster things A MILLION TIMES before I could figure out how to kill them… :/ It’s definitely not an easy game by any stretch of the imagination.

Yah Star Ocean 4 sucked ass. Spoony if u really want to know why these games have fans, go play the original 2. U can get them both for the psp which is the better version of the 2 games. Once Star Ocean 3 came out, the shit storm hit the fan. Way too much dialog and not enough gameplay. The original 2 had alot of dialog in the beggining and dialog from town to town just to move the story. The gamplay is where it really shines. Unfortunitly, its not Turned based so u may not like it, idk.

The only persona game i played and baten is Persona 1. Its a great game. The story is well done and the game isnt really that hard if u just lvl up and keep good personas. My only complaints for this game is that the dungeons are tedeious, they have pitfalls, paths that turn u away, and loads of damn dead ends. My last complaint is that compared to the jap version, they cut out half the game which was the Snow Queen quest which was basically alternaitiive storyline to the game, but alot harder which is only gained after beating the game. The only reason you would use a guide in this game is just to get the good ending which is alot better. Other then that, you just gotta learn what range the players attacks has, guns has, and spells has. Yes some spells have a range and takes time getting used too. However unlike what u mention, the weakness garbage is not as bad here.

Ok personaly I think that you should REALY try Sin megami tensei 1 and 2 on the snes (the best games of the bunch)

If you like Persona 3 at all, which it seems like you do, you will love Persona 4. It basically takes everything good from P3 and improves it while getting rid of all the weaknesses. Example: In P4 you have complete control over the other characters in your party(my biggest gripe with 3 was that you didn’t and the AI can be fucking STUPID). Also the story of 4 is a lot more involved than 3′s is.

Cool thing about SMT 1 (I did not finish the 2nd one yet) is that you can choose an alignement , for exemple :at the end of the game ,when you are at the big tower (after the world was destroied by atomic bombs and god flooded tokio killing 99%of the remainig population )you have a choise :
If during the whole game you where on the religious freaks side ,you will have to kill satan.
If during the whole game you where with the demons , you will have to kill god.
If during the game you enjoied pissing the demons and the religious freaks out you will have to kill God AND Satan
Also you have one of the greatest story lines EVAAAA (with xenogears and valkyrie profile)
The two most intresting sidekicks EVAAAA
AND you can have mini-gun and a Rail-gun at the end of the game (and that is always great)
Oh, almost, forgoth SMT is the 2nd best game ever (belive that is a good reason to try the game out ^^)

PS IF you thought SMT nocturne was hard-core,well the two SMT on the snes are GOD-core so good luck ^^

i beat Nocturne without a guide. on Hard. my first time through. and it was my first RPG since Pokemon. there were a few choke points, but i was surprised by how little trouble i had with it after being repeatedly told it was an absolute nightmare. it still took a long fucking time, but i loved every minute of it (well, almost every minute…)

my love of SMT stems from my hatred of RPGs. i’ve always liked the gameplay, but the storylines and characters have always frustrated the hell out of me because they’re always lauded as brilliant and they always suck. then after years and years of scoffing at RPGs, i’m told there’s one that begins with the apocalypse, and i was sold. i’ve always loved dark storylines and appropriately twisted characters. i also enjoy a good challenge, and SMT is supposedly the hardest RPG series around (i have no reference on the subject myself). all that, and it’s got Pokemon’s addictive “gotta catch ‘em all” mentality (which it invented long before Pokemon came out), but instead of collecting cute little creatures with silly names, you’re collecting biblical characters, norse gods, and all of history’s greatest mythical beings. i need to take a moment to reflect on how cool that is…

…okay. if there was ever anything specifically intended to be purchased by me, it’s the SMT series.

and for the record, Persona 4 has some major differences from Persona 3. most notably, it’s ridiculously easy. i logged about 70 hours in P3, but i bet a broke a hundred hours if you count all the progress i never got the chance to save. i put 80 somthing hours into P4, but there was virtually nothing i had to do twice. even the later bosses went down in one try most of the time (the earlier bosses were actually a ton more difficult). i was hugely disappointed by that, but it makes the game a lot more accessible. also, the characters are a lot more cohesive and relateable. i loved P3′s characters, but you didn’t really get an in-game sense that they were close, they just sorta told you they were close, then you used your imagination. P4′s characters are a lot more sincere in my opinion, and they’re all appropriate to your group (no fucking dogs or kids or robots; there is a weird one, but it’s justifiable). finally, P4 isn’t nearly as dark. P3 gets fucking bleak on a level P4 doesn’t even approach. again, disappointing, but not utlimately a bad thing. both are very good games, i still prefer P3 overall, but i think even people who had flimsy, forced reasons to say P3 sucked will like P4

Wow I have all the SMT games Spoony has, I’ve even got the original release of Persona 3 as well as the FES version. I even have a cosplay costume based on the main character from P3 that I wore to an anime convention early this year

I summoned the devil … in scribblenauts and let him fight against god.
Now what? ;D

You’re not gonna fucking believe the ending (s) of persona 3. And well persona 4 kicks ass xD You’ll still gotta go to school though but you ordered it so you HAVE to play it know…

Stuff i like from the series

The language, cuase just from the start it tells you ok this is not your avreage rpg it has it’s own language and it’s part of the persona identity (good thing you haven’t played devil survivor for ds you have another spell, the earth one, called Zan yeah another one)

i love the voices

school stuff is tedious but it’s part of it and it grow’s in you. And the fact that you have to level up your personas through social interaction. like you shoot yourself but still gotta make friends xD and there are a bunch of “friends” that are ridiculously bizarre like the sun one…

and you can summon fucking GANESHA! (best persona ever always wanted to use him even if it meant i wouldn’t make much damage)

great rant as usual

Don’t forget the upcoming SMT: Strange Journey which takes place in the SOUTH POLE.

If you’re into Rpgs then I’d recommend the Wild Arms series. It’s one of my favrite RPG series. It stick to the traditional turn based style. I also like the fact that it a fairly unique setting not just sticking to the medieval or hyper futuristic overtones that most RPGs have.

You should play Devil Survivor, I found that much more fun than P3.

Phoenix Down revives from KO, not death.
Also the matador boss beat my ass out of nowhere. Haven’t touched the game since.

You can actually combine the power of God and the Devil to make like an UlTRA SPELL

You can actually combine the power of God and the Devil to make like an UlTRA SPELL

I would recommend Phantasy Star 4 The End of the Millenium, it has a pretty good story and it is pretty easy to pick up and play, another awesome RPG for me is Golden Sun, you should try them out if you ever get the chance

I would recommend Phantasy Star 4 The End of the Millenium, it has a pretty good story and it is pretty easy to pick up and play, another awesome RPG for me is Golden Sun, you should try them out if you ever get the chance

Thanks for the recommendation, Spoony! It’s hard to discern what SMT games are really like because of their rabid fanbase.

That was great when all your books fell over behind you.

@ johnnyfog

Uhhhh…what?

If Persona 4 has crappy VA then please show me what isn’t.

No, I mean seriously.

If you call such amazing VA talent crappy, I am really curious about what you consider proper VA in that

Persona 3: Maybe everything is a figment of the main character’s imagination?

I dunno.

You’re right about Persona 3 in that the story is really back loaded. A little past half way though, the story really picks up and I really loved it.

Persona 4 is actually a lot better in that the storyline is much better paced out, and in my opinion, just has a better overall storyline. Yes, it’s more of the same: you’re a high school student and you live through your daily life for about a year, but again, the story is told much better. In P3, you’re like thrown into this situation where everyone else around you knows what’s going on. In P4, you learn everything the same time the other characters do. Oh yeah, and you can also control all of your other characters during battle which is amazingly helpful.

The biggest complaint I had about P3 was the ending…until I got P3: FES which comes with an epilogue game mode, which adds another 30 hours of game play (but you’ll REALLY need a guide for it because otherwise it’s frustrating as all hell…). P4′s story is all self contained if you get the true ending. Yes, there is an epilogue to that game too, but it feels like it was done better. P3 FES’s feels like it was added; P4′s is integrated into the game itself.

In the end, if you even kind of liked P3, I’d suggest picking up P4. You get a bit more variety in the dungeon type (although they’re all still randomly generated, but it’s not one single tower you’re climbing).

“Kinda like Bully but without the fun part…” <——— That one was hilarious

Kind of agree with the last two posts. I really got attracted to the series, and Atlus in general, because of the original Persona. They made a conscious decision to steer away from the darker atmosphere, I believe it was one of the main designers of the originals leaving the company. However, I really enjoyed P3 and 4 even more. You should like 4 a little better, it goes into an involved story a lot sooner than 3. But I am still disappointed they never brought the demon negotiation back. That’s what really grabbed me in Persona, ( which started as a Revelations series and not SMT) you could not only summon demons, but also forge contracts with demons through negotiation which was an option before combat. I believe this concept is introduced again in Devil Summoner 2, but I won’t expect you to check that out. I do think you should try the original Persona though, it will be released soon on PSP and is definitely closer to Nocturne/DDS in terms of atmosphere. Anyway, enjoyed the review as always, and was quite surprised to see SMT on the main page! Rock on you Spoony bard!

Kind of agree with the last two posts. I really got attracted to the series, and Atlus in general, because of the original Persona. They made a conscious decision to steer away from the darker atmosphere, I believe it was one of the main designers of the originals leaving the company. However, I really enjoyed P3 and 4 even more. You should like 4 a little better, it goes into an involved story a lot sooner than 3. But I am still disappointed they never brought the demon negotiation back. That’s what really grabbed me in Persona, ( which started as a Revelations series and not SMT) you could not only summon demons, but also forge contracts with demons through negotiation which was an option before combat. I believe this concept is introduced again in Devil Summoner 2, but I won’t expect you to check that out. I do think you should try the original Persona though, it will be released soon on PSP and is definitely closer to Nocturne/DDS in terms of atmosphere. Anyway, enjoyed the review as always, and was quite surprised to see SMT on the main page! Rock on you Spoony bard!

I’m glad you still havent played Persona 4 because once you get into the game you wont play Persona 3 ever again.
I liked Persona 3 but 4 is way much better, everything is improved, no more climbing towers, an awesome storyline, amazing characters, oh man, I remember playing Persona 4 six months ago, I couldnt stop playing the game until I finished it. A game has to grab me on its first 10 minutes, Persona 4 got me hooked on the first five minutes. One of the best experiences you can have playing a video game. Personally, its the best experience I’ve ever had.

@Chris

I know a lot of people loved that Demon contract thing, but I couldn’t stand it at all in P1 (but I’ve never played P2). It really slowed up the game play of a game that really wasn’t all that fast already. At least in P3 and P4, you can normally end battles in a single turn if you get back attacks. :)

@TimADugan

Hmm. I actually thought Teddie had the best voice(‘cept maybe Kanji). And his VA being in such a talented cast really deserves some kudos for his excellent performence. The thing I like best about his VA was the timing on some of the lines.

I mean:
Try playing P4 withouth the voices. It just ain’t the same, the reason people find this game so funny has largely to do with the delivery of the lines by the VA’s.

I’m pretty fresh to the series, as I’ve just started playing Persona 2 (heard it was a reliable title in the series). And if it’s indictative of the series – and according to what you’ve said, it is – I’d say that, in general, the games in the series have some odd, counter-intuitive and illogical design choices, but it’s workable. What saves it is its uniqueness; the games are doing something that feels new and original without just being a blatant, shallow gimmick.

I guess the SMT series is one of those things that is kinda meh with gameplay, but is still something that an fan of the genre, especially a veteran, should experience.

I loved Persona 4 English Voice Actors. They did a fantastic work.

Cool for a rare time I can say something relevant.(and sorry for my poor English, and I don’t have any real excuse)

Many the reason why people love SMT is the difficulty, sure is insane, even more is masochist, but in the good way, because is feel gratifying. Many of the modern RPG are just to much easy, you are put on a rail and you face the boss without any problem, because you have exactly the right level, the adequate spells, etc; the problem itself is not exactly the simplicity, but the fact the combats don’t have any tension or true sens of epic – and by epic I don’t talk about giant boss with some opera music. The fact is the SMT games are not so hard, when you have assimilated much of the battle system, actually the game can become sometime a real joke, but they manage to keep a real suspense, you know if you make a simple stupid mistake is game over, and that is awesome.

The battle system is really strategic, you have to think about every possibility, and you have to play with buff and debuff spell, even more the instant death are actually useful -well not against boss, but this is quite logical – in other term you have to think. The difficulty of the game is not exactly base on the level-up, like so many hard difficulty RPG, where you have to stop and make the most boring thing a RPG…fighting endless wave of the same monster only to beat one boss, and repeating the same thing for the next boss, and ad nuseum; sure having a having a higher level can help you a lot, but you can be screwed because you made the wrong choice, is very about the skill you have and more important the demons, you have to remember the demon make your team and you have total control over them. You have to understand the fusions aspect, creating a monster with zero weakness, putting the right spell, etc… but I will admit is special, for my end party I spend more than one hour to create of my supreme demon, still is was perfect. About the level up is present, but just like in Dragon Quest is transparent, the games offer so much exploration and quest make the level-up fluid, is not like you gonna farm exp point in front the save point.

Sure sometime to beat the boss you gonna need to die a least one time, but this is also the reason why people like the game, is a rape and revenge game; the big fucking monster butt rape you and is gonna pay for that, you know the spells he use, you know is weakness, and so is gonna suffer because you know exactly what you have to do, is not gonna be easy but this turn you on and so come all the pleasure. A good exemple is one of the Rider, he used a lot of physical attack, and he butt raped me, and so I changed my Megatama, made a new set of demon, all with null/absorb/reflect physical, and damn the fight was so easy.

I manage to beat Nocturne without a guide, but this was not my first SMT game, I have played Persona2 before, who is even more harder by some aspect, specially because you have more type of spell, and the battle system is not as strategic. I also play the first SMT, which is by many aspect is really cheap.

Another reason why the series is so loved, is because the games have by many aspect a occidental feeling, many choice through the games have a real impact on the story, and is really open. Now is only valuable for the true SMT, persona, DDS, Devil Summoner, are actually megaten game, not Shin Megami tensei(yeah is a bit the nerdish), and they are more like regular j-rpg. Still this occidental feeling is also on the way the story is told, is not cinematic base, if you want to have the story you need to talk to the npc, the cinematic are only used for moment of crowing awesome; the NPC are really useful, contrary to the others j-rpg where they serve only to retold the story or to gave information about quest, in a megaten game the NPC gave real information about the background and other information about the plot, a lot information where you’re not gonna found in cinematic or forced exposition. This is more a personal case, but I personally really a like the mythology of the series, is really reminiscent of book from Moorcock and Neil Gaiman, the Moorcock they use a similar system of Order and Chaos, and just like in Sandman(Gaiman) all the mythology are real and base on some kind of spiritual energy gave by the thought of people.

One thing a really appreciate in megaten game are the art direction and the music. The character design made by Kaneko is awesome, and can only work for megaten game, because the character gave a cold impression, they are dehumanized, and thus, feel so normal for the universe of the games(Persona 3 and 4 are made by Sojima…I’m such a nerd). The monster design, which is also made by Kaneko, are just weird and awesome, he made strange choice that in a way – again- work perfectly, and are well linked to original story…ok I admit I’m Kaneko whore. The music is also fantastic, they all made by Meguro(well is the main compose, sometime he receive help from other, but he do much of the work), and the only complaint I have is the fact he use to much is past work, but still is a fantastic composer, not on the level of Uematsu, but the guy made real good music, and they feel different from the rest of the j-rpg. Actually is probably one of the other reason why Megaten games have a strong fan base, if they are similar between them(they share the same overal design, music, battle system, even similar story), they are totally different from the rest of the J-rpg.

About DDS I have the impression the game needed a third instalment, the first one for the Junkyard, the second for the Earth, and finally the third about the sun, but for some reason they refused to make a trilogy, and so the second part of the second game is quite rushed. I really appreciate the first game in term of storyline, they offer a great experience, the way they explain all aspect of the world and the flaw of this world, and that was great. The love story is quite reminiscent of FFVIII, except is well written, and damn they offer some mature moment(the interaction between Heat and Sera). Another thing I like the reference, specially the one from Blade Runner, they are simple and not force. The second game fall really on the bad cheasy aspect of j-rpg, specially the thing about god, but also the three stooges and the cat, and is sad because the story rest quite intelligent the way of real and virtual is play through the games.

For Devil Summoner…the first one is bad, and the second average. Really don’t bother with them, they are not exactly bad, they have good aspect, but they are not fun to play. I finished the two games and just a big mistake.

Finally about the Persona series…I personally prefer the old ones, the third and fourth game make some of the most stupid mistake, they are good game, but they made really big mistake. Contrary to some people I will not recommend the fourth game, because of the fucking intro, is four hours long. and there nothing that happen…four hours is two movies, four or six episodes of a series, you can make a lot of story progression, but not in Persona 4, really the story is weak, is slow, a lot of cinematic, and is boring, exactly what I hate about the j-rpg(still I’m a big fans of the genre). The reason why I have problem with the two last entries is because a great deal of your time is spend on the sim-dating part, which the gameplay is quite weak and simple, you just need to maximize your stat and to gave the correct answer to the s.link, the only real difficulty come by the fact you need to make the perfect schedule.

The S.link suck, the story told is boring, the character are cliché, initially it seemed normal, because they are supposed to be cliché character who grow from the relation with you, but no they rest most of the time cliché character even to the last level(now they are bidimensional cliché instead of unidimensional), and the worst part is the fact they use a lot of epiphany, suddenly they become aware of a problem and they evolute; epiphany is good when you don’t have time to flesh a character or if is suddenly confront to a radical choice, not in a game where one of the point is exactly to evolute the character. Some of the s.link are quite good, but they are more the exceptions, instead of the rules. Also the gameplay is quite boring, they told you a stupid story, and offer a choice who is quite easy to know exactly what is the right answer, and that it(well sometime you need a stat to be at the right level, but this is done quite naturally).

One of the others problem I have is the dichotomy between the two types of gameplay, they not really blend well together. They really try with the help the s.link to make a real connection between the two part of the game, but is only useful for the fusions(which is really important, the reason why I accept to suffer this insanity). I think if they used a more cyberpunk felling, like “hacking” the mind of the s.link to resolve the problem(special boss fight, or just wandering in the mind to gain information), the stat of the sims part influencing the RPG part, etc… Instead you have two game poorly link together, and I hate the sims part(quite sad because I like the concept). The good part of the game is really the D-RPG, which is really fun for someone like me, but like many people I don’t relay liked the I.A, it not the worst IA but they can make a stupid move, and so who are screwed.

The story is boring, Persona3 is basicly a rip-off of Evangelion, and for god sake I’m so tired of rip-off of Evangelion. The fourth game could be interesting, at first the game star(after the four long intro) with the same goofy but kind of serious story told in a Phoenix Wright game, but at the end the whole story is to much weak, and use to much cinematic. I gave point for the games using some really good metaphor, but that not make a good story.

Wow a wall of text, again I’m sorry for my syntax, punctuation and orthography.

Cool for a rare time I can say something relevant.(and sorry for my poor English, and I don’t have any real excuse)

Many the reason why people love SMT is the difficulty, sure is insane, even more is masochist, but in the good way, because is feel gratifying. Many of the modern RPG are just to much easy, you are put on a rail and you face the boss without any problem, because you have exactly the right level, the adequate spells, etc; the problem itself is not exactly the simplicity, but the fact the combats don’t have any tension or true sens of epic – and by epic I don’t talk about giant boss with some opera music. The fact is the SMT games are not so hard, when you have assimilated much of the battle system, actually the game can become sometime a real joke, but they manage to keep a real suspense, you know if you make a simple stupid mistake is game over, and that is awesome.

The battle system is really strategic, you have to think about every possibility, and you have to play with buff and debuff spell, even more the instant death are actually useful -well not against boss, but this is quite logical – in other term you have to think. The difficulty of the game is not exactly base on the level-up, like so many hard difficulty RPG, where you have to stop and make the most boring thing a RPG…fighting endless wave of the same monster only to beat one boss, and repeating the same thing for the next boss, and ad nuseum; sure having a having a higher level can help you a lot, but you can be screwed because you made the wrong choice, is very about the skill you have and more important the demons, you have to remember the demon make your team and you have total control over them. You have to understand the fusions aspect, creating a monster with zero weakness, putting the right spell, etc… but I will admit is special, for my end party I spend more than one hour to create of my supreme demon, still is was perfect. About the level up is present, but just like in Dragon Quest is transparent, the games offer so much exploration and quest make the level-up fluid, is not like you gonna farm exp point in front the save point.

Sure sometime to beat the boss you gonna need to die a least one time, but this is also the reason why people like the game, is a rape and revenge game; the big fucking monster butt rape you and is gonna pay for that, you know the spells he use, you know is weakness, and so is gonna suffer because you know exactly what you have to do, is not gonna be easy but this turn you on and so come all the pleasure. A good exemple is one of the Rider, he used a lot of physical attack, and he butt raped me, and so I changed my Megatama, made a new set of demon, all with null/absorb/reflect physical, and damn the fight was so easy.

I manage to beat Nocturne without a guide, but this was not my first SMT game, I have played Persona2 before, who is even more harder by some aspect, specially because you have more type of spell, and the battle system is not as strategic. I also play the first SMT, which is by many aspect is really cheap.

Another reason why the series is so loved, is because the games have by many aspect a occidental feeling, many choice through the games have a real impact on the story, and is really open. Now is only valuable for the true SMT, persona, DDS, Devil Summoner, are actually megaten game, not Shin Megami tensei(yeah is a bit the nerdish), and they are more like regular j-rpg. Still this occidental feeling is also on the way the story is told, is not cinematic base, if you want to have the story you need to talk to the npc, the cinematic are only used for moment of crowing awesome; the NPC are really useful, contrary to the others j-rpg where they serve only to retold the story or to gave information about quest, in a megaten game the NPC gave real information about the background and other information about the plot, a lot information where you’re not gonna found in cinematic or forced exposition. This is more a personal case, but I personally really a like the mythology of the series, is really reminiscent of book from Moorcock and Neil Gaiman, the Moorcock they use a similar system of Order and Chaos, and just like in Sandman(Gaiman) all the mythology are real and base on some kind of spiritual energy gave by the thought of people.

One thing a really appreciate in megaten game are the art direction and the music. The character design made by Kaneko is awesome, and can only work for megaten game, because the character gave a cold impression, they are dehumanized, and thus, feel so normal for the universe of the games(Persona 3 and 4 are made by Sojima…I’m such a nerd). The monster design, which is also made by Kaneko, are just weird and awesome, he made strange choice that in a way – again- work perfectly, and are well linked to original story…ok I admit I’m Kaneko whore. The music is also fantastic, they all made by Meguro(well is the main compose, sometime he receive help from other, but he do much of the work), and the only complaint I have is the fact he use to much is past work, but still is a fantastic composer, not on the level of Uematsu, but the guy made real good music, and they feel different from the rest of the j-rpg. Actually is probably one of the other reason why Megaten games have a strong fan base, if they are similar between them(they share the same overal design, music, battle system, even similar story), they are totally different from the rest of the J-rpg.

About DDS I have the impression the game needed a third instalment, the first one for the Junkyard, the second for the Earth, and finally the third about the sun, but for some reason they refused to make a trilogy, and so the second part of the second game is quite rushed. I really appreciate the first game in term of storyline, they offer a great experience, the way they explain all aspect of the world and the flaw of this world, and that was great. The love story is quite reminiscent of FFVIII, except is well written, and damn they offer some mature moment(the interaction between Heat and Sera). Another thing I like the reference, specially the one from Blade Runner, they are simple and not force. The second game fall really on the bad cheasy aspect of j-rpg, specially the thing about god, but also the three stooges and the cat, and is sad because the story rest quite intelligent the way of real and virtual is play through the games.

For Devil Summoner…the first one is bad, and the second average. Really don’t bother with them, they are not exactly bad, they have good aspect, but they are not fun to play. I finished the two games and just a big mistake.

Finally about the Persona series…I personally prefer the old ones, the third and fourth game make some of the most stupid mistake, they are good game, but they made really big mistake. Contrary to some people I will not recommend the fourth game, because of the fucking intro, is four hours long. and there nothing that happen…four hours is two movies, four or six episodes of a series, you can make a lot of story progression, but not in Persona 4, really the story is weak, is slow, a lot of cinematic, and is boring, exactly what I hate about the j-rpg(still I’m a big fans of the genre). The reason why I have problem with the two last entries is because a great deal of your time is spend on the sim-dating part, which the gameplay is quite weak and simple, you just need to maximize your stat and to gave the correct answer to the s.link, the only real difficulty come by the fact you need to make the perfect schedule.

The S.link suck, the story told is boring, the character are cliché, initially it seemed normal, because they are supposed to be cliché character who grow from the relation with you, but no they rest most of the time cliché character even to the last level(now they are bidimensional cliché instead of unidimensional), and the worst part is the fact they use a lot of epiphany, suddenly they become aware of a problem and they evolute; epiphany is good when you don’t have time to flesh a character or if is suddenly confront to a radical choice, not in a game where one of the point is exactly to evolute the character. Some of the s.link are quite good, but they are more the exceptions, instead of the rules. Also the gameplay is quite boring, they told you a stupid story, and offer a choice who is quite easy to know exactly what is the right answer, and that it(well sometime you need a stat to be at the right level, but this is done quite naturally).

One of the others problem I have is the dichotomy between the two types of gameplay, they not really blend well together. They really try with the help the s.link to make a real connection between the two part of the game, but is only useful for the fusions(which is really important, the reason why I accept to suffer this insanity). I think if they used a more cyberpunk felling, like “hacking” the mind of the s.link to resolve the problem(special boss fight, or just wandering in the mind to gain information), the stat of the sims part influencing the RPG part, etc… Instead you have two game poorly link together, and I hate the sims part(quite sad because I like the concept). The good part of the game is really the D-RPG, which is really fun for someone like me, but like many people I don’t relay liked the I.A, it not the worst IA but they can make a stupid move, and so who are screwed.

The story is boring, Persona3 is basicly a rip-off of Evangelion, and for god sake I’m so tired of rip-off of Evangelion. The fourth game could be interesting, at first the game star(after the four long intro) with the same goofy but kind of serious story told in a Phoenix Wright game, but at the end the whole story is to much weak, and use to much cinematic. I gave point for the games using some really good metaphor, but that not make a good story.

Wow a wall of text, again I’m sorry for my syntax, punctuation and orthography.

Hey Spoony, I just recently started watching your videos and is pretty amazing that you like this series. In fact, even more amazing that you are playing persona 3 and that you enjoyed DDS, which I did too. I find the ending in that game quite satisfying actually. The last boss sucks but story-wise it fits in.
Now about Nocturne, I agree with what you said about the game being unfair and some of the labyrinths (yeah there inst another name for it) being almost impossible. I actually liked the whole minimalistic view in the game and it doesn’t suck for me in that aspect. The world has basically just ended and there just isn’t much activity. That is actually a tradition in the main series where you don’t get to see people walking around. But yeah you got a point there.
Devil Summoner, I have about 25 hours into the game but I don’t know like you mentioned the appeal just inst there for me, I love the 2d backgrounds and how lively the places are with people walking around and even the story is cool and kind of funny but i dunno, I just abandoned it after a while, I will go back to it once i finish….
….Persona 3:Fes. You know this game is actually a big disappointment for me, To me this game feels like its not a finished product. Everything in this game is repetition and there’s hardly any freedom to do anything story-wise. You go up that damn tower and then get tired you date girls (which is rewarding I guess you could say). But I find that this is another one of those games that you need a guide for even if it is easy because some of the Personas will only come out if you like other specific Personas and the series were not like this before. Persona summoning wasn’t like demon summoning.
One last thing that bugs me about this whole series in PS2 is that they recycle the demons. I find that so cheap and irresponsible, that they are charging full price for a game that they only invested time in creating 10 or 12 new demon models. I am so sick of seeing the same Apsaras model doing the same animation since 2003, and we’re in 2009!
Anyways you should definitely check out persona 2: eternal Punishment for PSX. That in my opinion is probablythe best SMT game released here in the US.

Oh Megaten. How I love thee.

I own virtually every game in the line–no, really I do, even the Japanese ones, the MSX cartridge, the Famicom games…all of ‘em. (I need two PS2 sequels, a Super Fami game, and a few PSX games to finish up. Oh and Maken X on the Dreamcast.) It’s a pretty messed up series, with all its demons and angels and mass murder by teenagers up in that piece, but I still love it to death.

I LP’d about a third of the first Playstation game, Persona–check under user Funkyfox on Youtube.

Dear Spoony,
I didn’t play that much SMT, I mostly played Persona 3 FES and Persona 4 (currently beating it), but I do see reasons why it’s so special and likely these are the reasons why Final Fantasy kinda sucks nowadays. The storyline isn’t made to be a soap opera like in FF, it’s far more simplistic, but it slowly evolves into something awesome and deep. So you know Noah (if you don’t already) the entire concept of Personas is based on psychology studies of German psychologist Carl Jung and if you think the use of Tarot cards was just slapped there, then nope! Carl Jung himself used Tarot cards for analysis of the psyche. Final Fantasy doesn’t have any psychologists or philosophers behind it.

You as a FF8 hater should notice this… That game was about a group of mercenaries doing missions, going into conspiracies which all lead down to them saving the world. And people joke that it’s a game about teenagers saving the world. But Persona 3 just says it right into the face… high schoolers are going to save the world.
But while FF8 had the weird build up and stuff, which all ended with you fighting the final boss wondering why she did all this, what she has from compressing time and leaving you with the strange feeling that this is some bullshit that you started as a guy doing tests and exams and now you’re fighting for the fate of the world.
Persona 3 just says… you’re a teenager, you’ll keep writing exams, but at night you fight to destroy the dark hour. While at the same time you try to figure out why it exists and stuff.
So the place where FF8 left you with no answer, is what Persona 3 is all about.
And you may be asking, is it really worth it? I think it really is! The best game ending I ever saw in my life, literally, I was blown away, very worth it! But don’t expect aliens or anything, this isn’t Final Fantasy! It’s simple, yet very deep, many of the plot turns in the game are based on tarot or relate to a theme.

Anyways, sorry if it’s too long, but I love the game and I’m glad you enjoy it.
BTW, there is a persona from the Hanged Man Arcana I always somehow associated with you.
http://megamitensei.wikia.com/wiki/Take-Minakata
Why? Hard to tell heh

I would highly recommend Persona 4. I never finished 3, for a lot of the reasons you stated, but Persona 4 fixed everything that I had issue with on 3. First off, the storyline is much better, has a much better, more consistent pace about it from beginning to end, and the characters were authentic and their interactions with each other more genuine than the characters in 3. I think what I liked the most about the game is that it really isn’t about saving the world or anything of that nature, but about solving a murder mystery. So the game has got this kind of “whodunit” slant to it where the characters are trying to prevent other people from being murdered, and trying to figure out who or what is responsible. It is one of the few JRPGs I have ever sat down and finished to completion in literally years.

The combat is also greatly refined and improved. You now have direct control over the other character’s actions, and each of the playable characters has a social link (not just the women). The benefit here is that as you rank up their social links, they get new passive abilities in battle, such as taking a mortal blow for the main character, or being able to survive instant death spells with one HP leftover, and doing special character-specific follow-up attacks. They “fixed” the hama and mudo spells. My major complaint on Persona 3 was that even if an enemy was weak to those spells, it still only had a chance of hitting them, which I felt was redundant. What’s the point of being “weak” to an instant-death spell? So if any enemy in 4 happens to be weak to those spells, then the spell’s accuracy raises to 100%, assuring that you kill them instantly.

They also fixed a lot of other things. The loading times for everything is overall much less, there’s more variety in the dungeons (compared to 3 anyways), you don’t have to talk to the other characters to change their equipment or check their stats like you did on 3, so everything is just much more streamlined and close at hand for you. I will just flat-out say, if you were to start playing 4 without finishing 3, you will very likely never finish 3, because 4 pretty much blows 3 out of the water.

If you can find Devil Summoner 2 cheap down the road, I’d check it out. They overhauled the combat considerably. It’s really on the same level of of an upgrade when you compare Persona 3 to 4. Everything is just better. Again, action-RPG might not be your thing, but it isn’t just mindless button-mashing this time, and the combat is much more fast-paced and strategic. Devil Summoner 2 is to Devil Summoner what Mega Man 2 was to Mega Man 1. I only rushed through the first game to play 2, and seriously, 2 is amazing. Better storyline, better pacing, you’re not forced into combat everywhere (like on the first one), and everything from the first game is fleshed out better, and upgraded. I’m not joking about the Mega Man comparison.

Also, since you have a Dual Screen, there’s Devil Survivor, which you might wanna check out. It kinda melds the SRPG thing with SMT’s battle system. The game is pretty straight-forward with branching paths for multiple endings, so you might be very interested in checking that out. Also, I think next month in Japan Strange Journey is coming out for the DS (not sure if this is coming out in the US or not), which looks to be like the old-school SMT games for the SNES, and the more I read about it, the more psyched I am for checking it out. If that comes out over here you may definitely wanna check it out.

Glad to see someone else likes Digital Devil Saga! I haven’t played much of it, sadly, but what I have is good.

If entirely possible, I’d like to see you go through the two Digital Devil Saga games, kinda like how you are doing Swat.

The Persona series does have a fairly cheap setup with the instant death instances, but there is a way around it. If you can gather items called “Homonculus”, they will take the mudo or hama hit for you. As far as the narratives go, Persona 4 has a more streamlined story but it comes at the cost of taking three hours before you actually get to gameplay. It fixes a few of the battle flaws of three, but it still has the end game if the main character dies.

Hey Spoony!

Was just wondering this since you talked about MMOs and SMT, have you played the MMO version of SMT? No one has even mentioned it yet, but i did read the comments rather quickly so i might have missed if someone did.

Don’t know what the policy is for posting links as I don’t want to advertise other sites, but the company
“Aeria games” is hosting it in case you or anyone reading this was curious.

Haven’t played it myself so i cannot say anything about it but i thought more people were aware of this.

Yes, if the main character dies in Persona 4 its game over. But now you get extra abilities for your other characters as you develop their friendship. For instance, when you get to level 3 on a battle character, he or she can take a mortal blow for you. More strategy, more awesomeness.

Hey Spoony.

I’ve played an extensive amount of the Shin Megami Tensei games and enjoyed them immensely. There’s one for the DS out in the States called Devil Survivor but that’s beside the point.

Altus, the company that develops publishes these games, aren’t exactly known for producing high budget games. It doesn’t help that they are being hit incredibly hard by the recession whereas Square Enix has money to burn. That explains why the graphics, while still stylish, aren’t the greatest.

Nocturne I found out on some Playstation Magazine CD and instantly had to go get it. It just felt like a whole new experience after slogging through Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. I beat it on Hard Difficulty getting the True Ending Demon (the one you got) after beating Normal mode (Neutral Ending). Gaining power to summon powerful mythological beings and bending them to your will was just an incredibly enticing experience and when I got to the ending, it felt incredibly rewarding.

Digital Devil Saga? Well, here’s kinda what happened in the ending (WARNING! Use of Wikipedia imminent!)

“The Embryon rush to the airport in a final gambit for survival. Gale perishes while killing Angel, while Cielo dies protecting Serph and Sera’s fighter jet. The two arrive at the HAARP facility, beaming their individual data to the sun, and, in the process, merging to form a supreme being called Seraph. Reunited as solar data, the team makes a final plea to God for salvation. Defeating Brahmin, they are able to calm God and return the sun to normal. Seraph, reaching enlightenment, travels with Schrödinger, another higher being, to a different universe.”

Rather than repeat what has already been said, are you familiar with visual novels? Because Persona 3 and 4 contain these elements with the whole Social Link thing. The one most Westerners are familiar with are the Phoenix Wright ones for the DS, but other noticeable ones are Kanon, Air, Tsukihime, CLANNAD, Higurashi, Umineko, Fate/stay night (considered a masterpiece), Kana Imouto (I shed manly tears on my first playthrough), etc. Most people call them dating sims, but that’s a huge misnomer since the aforementioned don’t have any of those elements you find on those Newgrounds games. A visual novel is an interactive fiction game featuring mostly static graphics, usually with anime-style art. Quite a few happen to be “eroge”, or visual novels that contain ecchi or sex scenes but not full-blown pornography. Higurashi, for instance, is a mystery with no dating sim elements or sex scenes whatsoever and the console ports for games like Fate and Kanon have the sex scenes stripped from the original game with little to no effect on the overall story. They all contain multiple story paths and endings depending on your choices as each one can have a large effect on how the story plays out.

Persona 3 and 4 feature these aspects prominently and, in conjuction with the winning SMT styles of gameplay and demon fusing/summoning, created the most successful games of the series both here and in Japan, the fourth one even more so.

persona 2: innocent sin is very good.
but it’s very hard to find legally.
there is no official english version, but a fan translation, that works very well.
i’m at the final boss now.

Okay there IS a reason why if you main character dies in Persona 3 and 4 that it’s game over, and I’ll try to explain in a non-spoiler way, because it relates to the story

For 3 all I’ll say is that it relates to the Arcana of the Young Boy who appears to you before and after the full moon, and if you die, well let’s just say he becomes his true form and pretty much losses what the Main Character gave him

For 4, now this is VERY lightly hand waved at the VERY end, which you may not even get because the game will trick you into not getting the real ending especially at this one point in the game, which I promise you now you WILL need a guide for, but anyway the Main character is one of three people who are given a “gift” and these people represent despair, emptiness and hope, and if you main character dies, then you’re out of the race for defending mankind’s credibility.

But if you enjoyed Persona 3, you will enjoy Persona 4 as much if not better BECAUSE YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR PARTY MEMBERS, no longer depending on their AI. Although 4 has it’s own share of faults, like the distance of morality between the dark and somewhat deepness of the actual plot and the silly random humor of the filler and even more things to balance.

In my opinion the best shin megami tensei game is persona 4 you shoud try it its funny it has a good story and
it actualy was a littel scary when you play at night note when you want the good ending dont let the deleviry man get thrown in to the tv by youske see a walktrough if you dont want the bad ending extra note some walktoughs have spoilers

i honestly have to say im a big fan of the Devil Summoner games, yeah the battle system on the first one is very very lacking but i enjoyed the story a lot, on the first one it was just slightly enough to make the battling not so bad…, the 2nd one however i loved, and it built upon the battle system alot making it quite a bit better, although the huge luck theme of it may be a downside to a lot of people (Although i liked that also, except for all the luck locust collecting, ive always felt like luck had no point in leveling and now it does) it hooked me pretty fast, most likely just the characters but again this is all my opinion.

As for Nocturne, again i loved that, and sadly 100% conquered it, hard mode, 100% compendium, turn icon, everything, yet i always got Isamu’s ending, i havent read threw many comments but im sure alot of them have corrected you on the ending having multiple endings. id always just stop in the labyrinth of amala as soon as i hit metatron and not get pierce.

i cant say im a fan of Persona 3, the school and dating simulator pretty much shut me down to it almost instantly, i loved Persona 2 though.

and for Digital Devil Saga, ill have to admit i could rank them in my top 10 favorite games of all time, the character cast was beautiful and it was just great to play and a great story, and it was refreshing that they weren’t afraid to risk things (as in killing off all characters in the 2nd, turning heat against the party, etc etc) they really risked a lot of potential hatred and its nice to see that.

How is SMT atheistic? There are deities all over the place. It’s as theistic as it gets…

I owned every SMT game for the PS2. But they’re so freaking hard and time consuming, I’ve only beaten Digital Devil Saga 1. I’m near the end of my 2nd playthrough but I’m stuck on the last 2 hidden bosses. I’ve spent about 2 hours playing Persona 4, and I think it’s awesome. It’s been getting very popular.

I guess I like the series because it’s so dark and odd and unconventional, and I usually dig the hell out of stuff like that. There are some story elements in the other games that bother me, but I still enjoy playing them.

And the music for these SMT games is FUCKING AWESOME!

I played SMT Nocturne, and I gave up because of frustration, I admit that. Also played Digital Devil and it was OK for me. I got Persona 4 and I like it quite a lot, although at times you prefer to simply go and fight instead of managing your skills and such, I guess its like what you felt for Persona 3, but Persona 4 at least has a story right off the bat… well maybe not that soon, but you’ll get to it before your first fights so thats good.

One thing that many don’t seem to know is the MMO. There is a SMT MMO, its called Shin Megami Tensei Imagine. Its completely free, if there is micromanagement I have yet to encounter it but there is the item shop. It runs kind of like a story but simply MMO. I recommend you check it out since for me it plays like Nocturne but a bit better. I actually found it since I was looking for a new MMO, kind of like you Spoony, and stumbled into this one. It isnt THAT good, but its free and its SMT so that may suck you in for a few days if you’re a fan of that, and if you’re not a fan well… I’d still say try it but recommend you read the instructions or at least know how the SMT games play (summoning, weakness, etc), else you will be COMPLETELY lost.

I’m a fan of Star Ocean: The Second Story, but from what i have heard, the series has gone downhill dramatically. I have heard quite a few horror stories about it.

SO2 to me is one of my most favorite RPGs of all time. Of course SO2 was the very first RPG, I ever played. I wasn’t as picky or as analytical as I am today so who knows what I’d think of it on a first play around now.

I played SMT Nocturne, but to my everlasting shame I never got past the Moire Sisters. Not because I didn’t know what to do, but because I just didn’t have a powerful enough party or the ability to counter their defense buffs. They are cheating whores!

I also played Persona 3 FES, but never actually made it to the ending. I got to the last month or so before the last part, and I just stopped caring. My interest in the game had been expended. I played enough to be satisfied, and then moved on to other games.

In all honestly, I prefered P4 to P3, because it was more polished, it had a more interesting story, and from what I can tell, the ending was less depressing. The whole story of P4 was less depressing than P3, which seemed like a perpetual downer. All in all, P4 was just a better game.

Well, now that I’m done trying to allay your fears that 4 might have the same issues as 3 (which it really doesn’t), I guess I’ll talk about what I find attractive about SMT. First SMT game I ever got was Persona 2: Eternal Punishment for the original Playstation, years ago. I actually had th same problems you did, being an SMT newb, and that was I didn’t understand the spells. “What the hell is Garu, or Hama, or Agi?” Back in the day, I wasn’t that big into RPGs, whereas in recent years I’m more interested in them. I like to try and play games that are different or break off from the norm, which was what attracted me to Persona 2. I never finished it, but I still have it, and having the later games I’ve played in the series, I’m actually ready to go back and play the game again fully intent on finishing it this time, armed with what I know now. A friend of mine actually has the original Playstation Persona., and now you wanna talk about old-school? Damn.

I thnk the next game I played very briefly was Nocturne. Really cool, but I couldn’t get into it at the time. I could now, however. Persona 3, I really liked it, but I had the same problems with it as you. Persona 4 blew me away. I don’t think the game really had the hype going for it that 3 had, but it exceeded all my expectations, which is rare for a video game these days. I also have DDS 1, Raidou 1 and 2 (and can’t praise 2 enough), Devil Survivor, and next week I’ll have the remake for the original Persona.

I’ve enjoyed all of these games that I’ve played, probably because I’m not really biased towards any kind of genre, and I think that’s really the main thing that has attracted me to this series in recent years: The developers aren’t really stuck making the same game over and over. Persona and Devil Summoner were spin-offs, and as they went along the developers really tried to further distinguish each from the original games, which I like, since as they say variety is the spice of life. But there’s something in this series of games for everyone to like: Turn-based RPG, Strategy (Devil Survivor), Action-RPG, Dating Sim RPG, Dungeon Crawler (the older games and Strange Journey) and so on.

Another thing that I like is that the setting is usually a refreshing departure from most fantasy/sci-fiction games. I mean, yeah, the games take place in Japan, but the games are made in Japan, that’s like blaming water for being wet. But most of the games either take place in the near-future, or in a contemporary setting, which is usually pretty grounded despite the series’ more fantastical elements. Raidou Kuzunoha takes place in 1920s Japan, and that’s an era in games that we never see enough of.

Another thing I like is that the stories in *most* of the games are for the most part miles above most other RPGs or video games in general. Maybe they aren’t the best told, but might have some kind of gimmick that you aren’t accustomed to seeing in other RPGs, like with rumors becoming reality in Persona 2. That was probably the coolest thing in Eternal Punishment, when Baofu and the others test the theory out in a bar, by spreading a rumor that the bar sells guns on the side, and then a moment later the bartender shows up with a menu full of weapons on the list to purchase, which is how you were able to buy weapons and armor in the game. Why can’t more games do stuff like that?

In the first Raidou game, the main antagonist is trying to change history so that Japan doesn’t get embroiled into World War 2. So even though the villain does all these shitty things to Japan, it turns out the motivation behind them is to try and prevent Japan from suffering an even worse fate (one part of the game has you trying to lift a curse that’s been placed on Isoroku Yamamoto). The final part of the game takes you to the Akarana Corridor, where it turns out that there’s multiple realities (like in Sliders, so that the universes in the SMT series don’t all necessarily take place in the same timeline). Hell, there’s even “time tourists” in there that talk like the main character from Stranger in a Strange Land (“You Grok?”).

In Raidou 2, all the shitty things the antagonist does, is only because he’s trying to keep his sister from suffering an equally shitty fate. It turns out he’s actually the most upstanding guy in the game. I also like that for all the alignment questions you are asked, it avoids the tropes of “Good/Evil/Black/White”, and actually allows you consider the perspectives and context of what you are asked. It’s almost like the writers were fans of Babylon 5 and not cramming “Good/Evil” down the player’s throat and instead let them consider the various perspectives and the context of their decisions (just like in Nocturne). People bitch about morality systems in games, but it would seem that SMT does it “right”.

Jesus, this has turned into an essay. I think another thing that I like is that the main character is silent, so it feels like you’re actually given a voice in the game’s world (especially in Persona 3 and 4), and not simply there to guide some whiny loudmouth protagonist that you don’t like through the narrative. Also, the art design for the characters is very stylized yet conventional. It’s refreshing to see people in an RPG that look normal for a damn change and aren’t dressed like fucking morons.

I think finally the one thing that’s really helped to hook me is the music. Shoji Meguro so reminds me of Chris Huelsbeck that it’s scary. The common thread that links these two composers is that their music does so well to absorb the player into the game and inform what’s going on it, to the point that the music becomes a character in its own right. And it just seems that Meguro continues to get better with each passing game. Devil Summoner 2 has one of the most consistently kickass soundtracks in a game I have ever heard, and given the action-RPG nature of the game, it really gets your blood pumping when you get into a battle with a bunch of demons, or when a Fiend just randomly shows up ready to wreck your shit. But Meguro just has such a broad range, and he gives each game a unique voice with its music.

But I think I’ll just leave off with an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KV9OuD_wOj4&feature=related

The SMT series is awesome to me, Persona 3 FES won’t please you much but Persona 4 is much more balanced and rewarding.

The SMT series is awesome to me, Persona 3 FES won’t please you much but Persona 4 is much more balanced and rewarding.

Well, I’m not sure what it is exactly I love about the series.
Something about them just fascinates me, and I don’t really have an absolute favorite one.

While I do like Persona 4, I didn’t like it as much as the 3.
It did improved gameplay-wise, but I didn’t like the story or characters as much.
A lot of people praised the how realistic the characters were and how the hilarious it was, but most of the time I found myself irritated or cringing in my seat. I didn’t really care about Yosuke, Yukiko or Rise all that much, Yosuke especially. He reminded of Milhouse, except more annoying.

Again, I do like it, but not as much as everyone else did.

My first experience what with Digital Devil Saga. I heard about Shin Megami Tensei from a friend. I got P3 as soon as it came out I love that game I actually found ps2 for the playstation and I’m playing on getting it when I get the money. What I love about the games is the fact that they’re different and dark. The whole fact where the main character has its dark side and isn’t just a goody goody seem to make them seem more human. Also another thing I love is that its just plain different. I like games that the battle system and stuff is new and different from the norm. Like i’ve never seen a game like the persona games.

My first experience what with Digital Devil Saga. I heard about Shin Megami Tensei from a friend. I got P3 as soon as it came out I love that game I actually found ps2 for the playstation and I’m playing on getting it when I get the money. What I love about the games is the fact that they’re different and dark. The whole fact where the main character has its dark side and isn’t just a goody goody seem to make them seem more human. Also another thing I love is that its just plain different. I like games that the battle system and stuff is new and different from the norm. Like i’ve never seen a game like the persona games.

I agree with Star Ocean, particularly Star Ocean 4. Man, that was just a bad game on many levels, and it had so much potential, too. Eternal Sonata is a very pretty game, but that’s all it has going for it.

And I know I’ll be burned to a stake for saying this, but I like Lost Odyssey, even for the slow combat. It had an interesting story, to me, but the game needed a better antagonist.

On the SMT front, I couldn’t finish Nocturne because of it’s difficulty. Digital Devil Saga is a great set of games, but I never finished it, so I don’t know about the ending. Devil Summoner II is a much better title than it’s predecessor, and Persona 4 is a major improvement over Persona 3, mainly because, despite sharing similar items, the game’s main focus is the murder mystery, and it’s actually a decent one, too.

That’s my opinion on those, so I hope it works out. I would recommend Tales of Vesperia, but it is a real-time battle system, so you probably won’t like it for that reason alone, but that is a great game.

I agree with Star Ocean, particularly Star Ocean 4. Man, that was just a bad game on many levels, and it had so much potential, too. Eternal Sonata is a very pretty game, but that’s all it has going for it.

And I know I’ll be burned to a stake for saying this, but I like Lost Odyssey, even for the slow combat. It had an interesting story, to me, but the game needed a better antagonist.

On the SMT front, I couldn’t finish Nocturne because of it’s difficulty. Digital Devil Saga is a great set of games, but I never finished it, so I don’t know about the ending. Devil Summoner II is a much better title than it’s predecessor, and Persona 4 is a major improvement over Persona 3, mainly because, despite sharing similar items, the game’s main focus is the murder mystery, and it’s actually a decent one, too.

That’s my opinion on those, so I hope it works out. I would recommend Tales of Vesperia, but it is a real-time battle system, so you probably won’t like it for that reason alone, but that is a great game.

persona 3 was fun. the game being over when the leader dies is shit but the good news is in perosoa 4 no stupid tower but the game still ends when you die.

I still consider Persona 2: Eternal Punishment the single best RPG for the Playstation One, although it is by far the most mainstream and accessible of the SMT games I played. The first Persona is pretty weak, but a lot of that can be traced to the localization, which (among other things) ripped out an entire quest that was roughly half the game.
I played Nocturne until I realized I was literally just doing whatever the guidebook told me and that just wasn’t fun, no matter how cool the world was.
After that, I kind of fell out of love with JRPGs (blame Final Fantasy XII), and was definitely not in the frame of mind for something that hardcore, but I’ve been thinking about going back to Persona 2 for a while now (the game has both Satan and Lucifer as summons, by the way. Like Garth Ennis explain that one.)

Oh man… Persona 3… That is a story that just sucks you in once it gets going. You can not believe how real shit is constantly getting for you and your team once you’re in deep. “Oh man, shit can’t possibly get any more real than it is right now,” you say to yourself, but ohhhhh man does it get real. It gets real and stays real up until the very end of the game where it all just seems to all come down right on the main character.

P4 kind of lacked in that department. It’s much more light-hearted (at least as light-hearted as a murder mystery can be), but you never really find yourself or your party personally involved in what’s going on in the way that they affect you in P3. I mean, it happens once pretty late in the game, but nothing really bad happens to anyone (even though shit looks like it’s going to get real, but then it doesn’t).

In summary, shit is way more real in P3.

i wish i could try these games, but my PS3 is too new and wont play PS2 games. however, on another note, what u said u like about these games is exactly what u hate about FF8….. case and point “its not that good, the storys kinda weak, but u summon the fucking devil” LOL!!

i wish i could try these games, but my PS3 is too new and wont play PS2 games. however, on another note, what u said u like about these games is exactly what u hate about FF8….. case and point “its not that good, the storys kinda weak, but u summon the fucking devil” LOL!!

I felt the same way about Persona 4 as you felt about Persona 3.

-The dungeons are boring (Each is a series of identical corridors) which are far too long
-Endlessly recycled enemy designs
- Many S. Links are just boring. All the female characters (besides Chie) are big downers, with little payoff.
-The dialogue is inconsistent. Some scenes have incredible amounts of charm, but a lot of others are boring, boring, boring. A plot point will be introduced, and then it goes around the table and drops their opinion.

Dispite all the issues, I did enjoy the game a lot. The characters were likable and endearing (if not childish) and the overall plot arc is interesting (though there are some real bullshit moment) and a lot of the bosses just LOOK really cool (lots of imagery here)

Overall the game had a certain charm that drew me in and even though looking at the game analytically I have mostly negative things to say, I enjoyed the game.

SMT is a great series, for me, because it’s just one of those RPG franchises that goes against the norm. One could say that all the SMT games have a manga/anime art style, but it’s more stylized and the series has more substance backing it up than, I would say, Final Fantasy VII or X. It’s like, the JRPG for people who like Western RPGs. It can be a bit complicated or confusing for a lot of players, but that’s the Western RPG influences. When it comes to the Persona series, Persona 2 Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment and 4 are the best, so you should really get into those, Spoony. Personally, I have a ton of SMT roms on my PC, and I find the Super Nintendo games to be really interesting.

And I think anyone who has played Poke’mon should give this series a try, because it’s basically where the whole ‘catch ‘em all’ game mechanic was introduced back in Megami Tensei for the MSX, which i believe was out in 1988 or something like that in Japan. The game industry owes a fair bit to this franchise, which is why I’m, glad it’s getting more attention.

Y’know, I actually kinda enjoyed Lost Odyssey up to a certain point. It did seem very deep, especially with the little Thousand Years stories peppered throughout the game. My biggest problem was that it was a bulllllllllshit system of combat and leveling. Turn-based is nice, but I HATE games that make you pick what each character will do, then combat begins. Because you have no clue what’s going to happen, and no way to plan for it. Even using items and healing was a pain in the ass, because nine times out of ten, when you need someone to get healed, they’ll die before the actual healing spell goes off. Or the character doing the healing will die, and then the whole party is SOL. And on top of that, every enemy gives one experience point. It doesn’t become a problem until you hit a boss that requires you to be a higher level than you currently are, and suddenly you need to fight like 50 random battles to gain one level.

A follow-up:
The Famicom games – Currently playing through the first one on an emulator, and it’s pretty fun so far.

Nocturne – Excellent game.
Had moments of frustration like most people did.
The only time I referred to a guide was during the final hours of the game.

Digital Devil Saga I & II – I had low expectations, but I ended up liking it more than I thought I would.
I found the second half a little better.

Devil Summoner – I’ve only played the Raidou games, not the ones on the Saturn.
The first Raidou was fun the first couple hours, but got old really quick.
I’ve beaten it, though. The second Raidou improved a lot, but I haven’t finished it yet.

Persona 1 – I didn’t like it at all.
Most of the characters annoyed me, the map was larger than it needed to be and battles were pretty sluggish.
Loved the music, though.

Persona 2: Innocent Sin – Loved it. I personally think it has the best cast out of all of the Persona games.
Overall, it’s a pretty easy game, but there were moments that made me pull my hair out (Bomb Shelter, Long Mountain path, Longinus Fights.)

Persona 2: Eternal Punishment – Didn’t like as much as IS, but it’s still pretty good. The battles system felt quicker and was much more difficult than IS. The cast was a mixed bag for me. While I found Bao-Fu and Katsuya awesome, Tetsuya should never talk and Maya should never be silent.

Persona 3/ P3: FES – Love it, but it had problems you’ve already adressed, Spoony.
The only exception is that I didn’t mind the tower all that much. I loved the cast as much as the one in P2:IS.

Persona 4 – Like it, but not as much as everyone else did. The humor in the game felt very anime-esque.
Too much unnecessary explaining by one of the characters.
Despite having different dungeons, they all still felt the same.

Star Ocean. Ugh.

Have you ever tried the first two Suikoden games for Playstation?
If not, you should try them. Better than post SNES era Final Fantasy in my opinion.

really off topic but a great series is the tales of series its not turn based sort of real time in that you have to move your character around in a small area and whack monsters if you have GBA get tales of phantasia, wii or gamecube get tales of symphonia #1 NOT #2 (that sucks balls), 360 get tales of vesperia, PS2 tales of the abyss or tales of legendia or PSP tales of the world or if you can find it tales of eternia english (but careful cause they have a glitch that freezes at a certain point and you can’t get pass it

great series even if you hate real time the cutscenes i think aren’t to long weird characters and and sort of intresting plots

Spoony, I feel you with the Social Links in Persona 3. I really felt bored and unrewarded from the Social Links in P3. However, I think it’s done better in Persona 4. In P4, you aren’t punished for neglecting Social Links, have a much more lenient schedule, and the Links themselves are more rewarding, especially with party members.

Plus, inside the dungeon, you can use an item to return to the base and save (although you won’t be healed like in P3 when you get there), and it lets you resume from the last floor you got to when you re-enter the dungeon. As an added bonus, no grinding is necessary, since if you don’t actively avoid encounters, you’ll level up enough by the end of the dungeon anyway! (I hated the grinding in P3)

I think most of the 140 something comments before mine do a better job of explaining SMT than I could ever do but I just want to add this: In P4, if you get the bad ending, DON’T SAVE! DON’T BE A RETARD LIKE ME! Or at least save on a second file.

No spoilers, you’ll know it’s the bad ending if you go: “That’s it?”

Also, yeah, Devil Summoner: Huge Fucking Title, gets really awesome as time goes by. Big bonus points for its cut-scenes and setting too.

Hell yeah i love summoning Odin in persona 4 hehe

P4 is a far superior game to P3, but P3 is a terrible game. It may seem like P3 gets a bit of story towards the middle of the game, but that’s an illusion. It keeps giving you the finger in that regard, and with regards to the combat.

P4 has a story, and it’s interesting in a way to be visiting in the psyches of other people, albeit only on a very basic thematical level. You’re allowed to take control of the other characters in this game, and although you still lose if your main character goes down there’re a few added mechanics that makes that less likely to happen. The combat has been changed from stupidly hard to fair so that you rarely need to grind levels. The only time I had to do it was for the final boss (which is incredibly easy to overlook, by the way).

Strangely, even though the acting is actually pretty good on average the writing is pretty bad, and the writer’s misogyny shines through which is unfortunate. Like in P3 the characters are atrociously dumb, and they keep harping on the same events as if they were mysteries long after you’ve figured out what’s going on. The dialog and plot gets really, REALLY bad at the very end, even if the gameplay doesn’t.

I have to admit though that I’ve had relatively fun playing through the game. The characters are like a more mature (in a sense) version of the scooby-gang, and the dialog hurts less if you can keep that in mind. The fun of this game comes from the combat though, and the stupid cut scenes in between is a nice relief, and something you can riff on with a friend.

Yeah, the combat is hard, but compare that to a final fantasy game for instance. In final fantasy games you’re almost never in danger of losing a battle, ever. Not even bosses for the most part. Persona 4 makes combat a bit more challenging and strategic, and the boss fights are generally really fun. Sure, sometimes you have to back out and construct a persona that can withstand certain elements, but that’s also part of the strategy. I think you’ll enjoy P4 far more than P3, and if you really, really feel the need to see the ending of P3 I’d look it up on youtube rather than actually play the rest.

Hey, Spoony. I’ve been a big fan of the site for a while, but oddly enough this was the first time I’ve really felt compelled to leave a comment because the question you asked is one I asked myself through much of Persona 3. I’m not a fan of JRPGs anymore, at all. The Star Oceans and Tales games (incoming flames) of the world just try my patience, bombarding me with JRPG cliche after cliche until it feels like they’re all the same with palette swaps of the same characters and the same storylines (and usually bad dialogue).

I think that’s what attracted me to Persona 3. I’ll admit I haven’t played any SMT games besides Persona 3 and 4, although they’ve all come at high recommendation from the same people who recommended Persona to me. And yes, it’s slow, even plodding at times. But it’s so twisted. It just doesn’t feel like any other JRPG, and I’m guessing from your descriptions that’s consistent with the rest of the SMT games. It really sucked me in, and until the halfway point of the game that’s the only logical explanation that I can come up with. That said, the storyline does finally start to pick up at about the halfway point, and I think it’s ultimately pretty satisfying. I personally liked the ending, but you’re going to get mixed opinions about that and it does feel a little bit like a cheap shot.

I’m also going to echo the sentiments of a lot of previous commenters that you’re probably going to like Persona 4 more. The intro drags on a bit too long, but the storyline really is much better paced after that point and continues to ask questions and reveal new plot points at a regular pace (although, once again, you’re kind of waiting for that time of the month for it to happen). Unfortunately, the ending is somewhat of a let down, so prepare yourself for a little disappointment there.

One of the high points of the series to me is that you kind of get a bit of social commentary. You really have to stop and think about it, especially through the lens of a high school mentality and especially in Persona 4. It’s a little pretentious, at times a stretch and definitely not of the quality you get in the best movies or novels; but, I enjoy it because it’s something you just don’t get in many games, let alone JRPGs. Anyway, I hope this helped answer your question.

Chiming in as well: if you kind of like P3, I would definitely try P4. The combat & S.Linking feels more refined, and the plot isn’t P3 rehashed. I also think it’s paced better: every month-long chunk has a short-term goal, and the field trips between months are funnier.

My biggest gripe with the game is the investigations and figuring out how to get the endings. The investigations require that you talk to almost everyone in town, sometimes over a few days. And the endings? You determine which ending you get by your dialogue choices right after a half-hour cutscene; many of the choices are vague or similar, but there’s only one correct choice at each branch. ARGH! I needed a strategy guide to figure out how to get the True Ending, not how to defeat the monsters.

Persona 4 is freaking awesome. It’s got tons of improvements from Persona 3 (particularly being able to control your allies), and I’m pretty sure you don’t kill God in it (unless you have some lose definitions of God). Really recommend it

However, the amount of work you need to put in to get the “True Ending” is beyond irritating. That will probably put you off it, but the game up until that point is 100% solid (for a JRPG anyway).

I’m sure a lot of people might have said this before, but I would wholeheartedly recommend Persona 4. It does share some of the problems of 3 (main character dies, game over), and juggling between school and monster hunting. But several of the problems addressed in 3 have been somewhat fixed in 4.

For instance, the story. Whereas Persona 3 dicked around what the story really meant for half the game, not really explaining itself until after the whole gang comes together and have shared a lot of boss fights, Persona 4 starts you off with a mystery that you and your party want to solve, from the onset. Only problem is, for the first, like, hour, you’re kind of on one long, semi-interactive rail, before you have real control of how to spend your time in game.

Part of what really attracted me to 4 was its central cast. While 3 had set itself up for several stereotypes, and sometimes even took them, they were still fairly enjoyable. In 4…I don’t want to say it does away with stereotypes, because I’m positive it doesn’t, but I didn’t notice it, at least not enough to pull me out of the game because of it, and they’re enjoyable on all their own merits.

And, of course, as others have said, the combat is improved. It’s still hard, especially in some cases, but it only rarely, if ever, feels like it’s being unfair. The bosses are a bit easier on you in that, after the very first boss, the tutorial boss, NONE of them have a weakness, and only a fairly obvious resistance. And in spite of that, it’s still rather easy to come up with a strategy that’ll take them down.

My only advise is that you build up two different team sets: the dungeon killers and the boss killers, because the party is almost split down the middle on who’s better on which of those two sides.

Oh, almost forgot. You know how you can summon the fucking devil in Persona 3? By the end of the game, you got one better. You can summon the Messiah. Yes, that guy.

And you level him up enough, he gets immunity to Piercing weapons and attacks.

And he summons up the power of the God Hand (yes, that’s a real attack. Yes, it’s the best single target Physical Attack in the game).

Suck it, Satan.

Only very recently started playing this game series and I’m the same here, kinda. I absolutely love persona 4 (1st one I played) and I don’t know why! I just can’t put it down. I reckon it’s the the unique aspect of the game and how it differs from the normal “fantasy” RPG and gives it characters that people can relate more too.

Kudos to you playing Shin Megami Tensei series.

If you hate Persona 3 Fes’s social networking bit but kinda love the story and summoning demons, I recommend Persona 1, Persona 2 Innocent Sin and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment. In my opinion, Persona 3 and 4 kinda sidetracked from previous Persona series, but they carry Shin Megami Tensei title for some reason and previous Persona games don’t (not that I’m saying 3 and 4 are bad games…they are awesome although I do agree that social networking bit is kinda ridiculous. Social networking in Persona 3 is plain ridiculous, and you’ll face similar problem in Persona 4).

I don’t have that much opportunity to play console type game, but I did play fair number of Tensei series and Persona series, and so far, I could recommend you especially Persona 2 Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment. It’s on Playstation 1 console, but it might be hard to find, and someone mentioned earlier that you can’t find these titles legally. That part…true.

I’ve played Star Ocean and I agree with everything you said….horrid. I always wanted to play Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne…I could never find it. So, thanks for your opinion on that one. I’ve also played SMT: Devil Summoner, but I got REALLY annoyed. I hated it. You should look up the PS2 game Shadow Hearts, probably one of the best games I’ve played. Anyway, great vlog as always Spoony!

Star Ocean died after Second Story, No offense taken, Spoony.

You won’t be disappointed in P4 Spoony, it starts out interesting, ends interesting, and it takes a couple things that were BS in P3 and gets rid of them (like being unable to control your allies or the whole ‘girlfriend’ thing is only done at the end of the link where it doesn’t matter) and in general makes all of the great things about P3 and makes them better, while taking just a few things that were bad and making it so (there’s a huge increase in items that nullify instant death spells as far as acquiring them goes). Except the final boss fight where you don’t fight god or the devil in either (surprisingly), P4′s somewhat lackluster about it depending on what ending you get (which luckily is more of a straight path with tiny branches RIGHT near the end), and P3 makes the fight awesome because you’re (SPOILER WARNING!!!!) fighting death itself (SPOILER END!!!)

Just avoid Devil Survivor. The combat’s broken, translation problems make some abilities seem REALLY f’ed up the a, and the music is piss-poor.

Okay Spoony, here are my thoughts on Persona 4.

I apologize in advance for my bad english and spelling mistakes…

I didn’t play Persona 3 at all, but I have completed Persona 4. And it still has the design flaws you pointed out, like if the protagonist falls, the game is over.
I’m not that much of a JRPG-guy. I tried a lot of different games, but I never had the patience to sit through one all the way. Persona 4 really hooked me with it’s characters and it’s storyline and kept me playing until the end.
It’s main gameplay part, the dungeon-crawling, felt pretty quickly tidious and repetitive to me. It also didn’t help that all the dungeons felt the same.
The fights were fun, but fighting the same monsters again and again gets annoying after a few floors of the dungeon.
The Bossfight’s difficulty was fine for me – if not a little too easy. So that shouldn’t be a problem.
The other thing you have to do in the game, like going to school or maxing out the social ranks wasn’t that much of a problem to me. After you saved a victim, you always have some “freetime” where you can concentrate on those things. So that didn’t bother me much.
What you have to be aware of before getting the game (in your case, Spoony, it’s already too late, since you already bought it) is, that it’s a lot like an shounen (did I spell that right?) anime. The humour in the game is very lite-hearted, the colors are bright, the soundtrack consists almost completly of JPop music and you will have to (especially in the beginning) sit trough 10-minute cutscenes just listening to the characters and clicking textboxes away.
The last point might have been be a problem but I thought that the dialog was well written, the characters were interesting and the story was thrilling. Even though I was thinking “When will I be able to finally do something?!” trough the hole time.

Still I have one big complain about the game and that is the false, or “wrong”, endings. Why do they even exist?!

Don’t worry, I won’t spoiler anything.

After about I think 45-50 hours in the game, an event occours where you have to ansewer 5 multiple-choice questions absolutly correctly or the game will end. But no, not with a “game over”-screen or something, it will make a jump in the calender to the day where you have to leave town, all your friends are giving you their goodbye’s and you get a final anime cutscene and after that, the credits roll. When that happend to me I was like “What? That was it? That was the game?”. And after looking up on the internet that there were still like 15 hours of gameplay left, I was pretty pissed off.
Anyway there is another chance to get the false ending, but there it’s obvious why it give you an ending screen.

But that’s not it. When you are at your last day, the day before you leave the town, you have to find and talk to all your friends you have maxed your social rank out, and then go to your “special headquarters”. I read that in a walktough, did that and the game said “You have no reason to go there”. Right, I didn’t have one. Without the walktrough I wouldn’t have bothered trying the door again. But you have to try again and NOW you enter and there is still one dungeon left including the final boss of the game. And after all that you get the “true” ending.
I mean why? Having secrets is one thing but I don’t get why the developers decided to hide parts of their game. And they decided to hide it WELL.

Uh, I’m going way to long on about P4. Despite the flaws, I loved it. My favorite RPG on the PS2.

Hunterwolf.

Star Ocean is loved because it has one of the best Battle- and Crafting-Systems in the genre, simple as that. But yeah, the Story is really horrible in SO4, but it was quite nice in part 1-3 (the characters were great in that SO1 xD). But I personally play games primarily for their gameplay, so I like the series overall. Eternal Sonata on the other hand..urgh…was one of the worst and most ridiculous JRPGs I´ve played in years. Especially those cutscenes (anyone saw the deathscene of Claves….? xD) and the idiotic ending. Besides that, the gameplay was too simple and there was almost no challenge at all.

You should try the Valkyrie Profile series. It has great gameplay (challenging, but never unfair), awesome story, characters and scenario and it really is radically different from other JRPGs. “Silmeria” in my opinion is the best console RPG of it´s generation.

I love Lost Odyssey, damn you Spoony you hating on it. Just kidding but I didn’t find it boring at all, the beginning kind of but after that I think it picks up.

To answer why in P3, you lose when the MC goes down, you need to get way toward the end of the plot. It comes out, I think, later in December. But, to simplify, if the MC dies, stuff gets loose, and the big bad wakes up and kills everyone. And, actually, some personae are immune to Light or Dark elements (Hama and Mudo respectively). And in FES, if you play on Easy (Like I do, yeah, I’m a wuss, but I don’t like games to assrape me, I don’t enjoy that), you get 10 items that you can use to revive you and everyone else from death, to full HP and SP, at Game Over. But you only get ten.

As for P4, which I have not yet beaten, but played mostly through, it’s like P3, but more. You have the same easy option to help you out, but expect to burn through those pretty quick, because P4 is even more of a bitch than P3. Despite the fact that actually, it’s a much lighter tone than most of them, with brighter colors and music, and the true ending is actually pretty bright, unlike P3, even if you do it well. I think the “plot” of P4 takes off a lot faster than with P3, though, with stuff going down like in your first week, and no simple “hey, let’s climb a tower” (And while you ascend/descend in all of the games dungeons, I don’t think any of them are just random towers. They make thematic sense) stuff to start you. The other advantages it has over P3 is that you can actually command your party, not just set their tactics, if you pursue S.Links with girls, you don’t HAVE to date all of them, so you can keep it to one girlfriend at a time and not piss anybody off, through the right dialogue options, and you actually can cram just a little bit more into your day.

Persona 3 and 4 also canonically take place in the same world, with P4 like two or three years down the line, and you take a field trip to the city of P3, where you get to enjoy some old locations and music, and meet up with one of the S.Links from the previous game, now a few years older.

To answer why in P3, you lose when the MC goes down, you need to get way toward the end of the plot. It comes out, I think, later in December. But, to simplify, if the MC dies, stuff gets loose, and the big bad wakes up and kills everyone. And, actually, some personae are immune to Light or Dark elements (Hama and Mudo respectively). And in FES, if you play on Easy (Like I do, yeah, I’m a wuss, but I don’t like games to assrape me, I don’t enjoy that), you get 10 items that you can use to revive you and everyone else from death, to full HP and SP, at Game Over. But you only get ten.

As for P4, which I have not yet beaten, but played mostly through, it’s like P3, but more. You have the same easy option to help you out, but expect to burn through those pretty quick, because P4 is even more of a bitch than P3. Despite the fact that actually, it’s a much lighter tone than most of them, with brighter colors and music, and the true ending is actually pretty bright, unlike P3, even if you do it well. I think the “plot” of P4 takes off a lot faster than with P3, though, with stuff going down like in your first week, and no simple “hey, let’s climb a tower” (And while you ascend/descend in all of the games dungeons, I don’t think any of them are just random towers. They make thematic sense) stuff to start you. The other advantages it has over P3 is that you can actually command your party, not just set their tactics, if you pursue S.Links with girls, you don’t HAVE to date all of them, so you can keep it to one girlfriend at a time and not piss anybody off, through the right dialogue options, and you actually can cram just a little bit more into your day.

Persona 3 and 4 also canonically take place in the same world, with P4 like two or three years down the line, and you take a field trip to the city of P3, where you get to enjoy some old locations and music, and meet up with one of the S.Links from the previous game, now a few years older.

Spoony show don’t tell… show us the game.

So you’ve finally played those games. There are as good as you’ve said they are, though they might be confusing, but they will be real rewarding in the end.

As for the Devil Summoner games, you might want to try out the game again, as well as the sequel. Devil Summoner 2 is a lot better, but it is still real-time. But sooner or later, like the Reaper in Persona 3 FES, you will encounter demons who will kill in one hit, even at a lower level.

The only game you should stay away from is Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor. Got a reserved copy, and my hopes were immediately dashed.

Devil Survivor was awesome

Here we go……

Persona 3 – okay this was the first shin megami tensei game I played. I found it to be extremely difficult to learn the ” new ” language, since I had been a Final fantasy nut all my life. It also pissed me off that I couldn’t control my characters ( directly ) which to led to many deaths throughout the game. Mudo and Hama punched my soul throughout the game, but I also found as the game progressed I was having more and more fun. I think this mainly due to having like the most ridiculous demons on my team. Over-all I found it to be very fun, yet very annoying at times so…. yea.

Persona 4 – I found this to be about the same amount of fun as persona 3, but I believe if I had played this first I would have considered it to an amazing game. I say this because it is persona 3++. It contains a story through-out the entire game, the combat is improved, the social link system is improved, the dungeons are improved, and it contains a fishing mini-game ( which is always a plus ), but it still felt like restarting persona 3.

Devil summoner – I will have to agree with you and say the combat in this game is reduntant, but I was fascinated by different approach this was in contrast to the persona games I had played. This games story is very slow to start up but I found it great by the end, Too-bad I was too pissed at the combat system at the time to fully enjoy the end D : Over-all I found it fun, it had a sherlock holmes kinda feel to it ( the main character being a detective and all ) but it just got boring fast.

Devil summoner 2 – A great improvement over the first one. First off the combat in 2 was much better ( with an inclusion of a luck element later in the game ). I also had much more fun with the combat system because it had a much more fluid feel to it, although it does get repetitive after a while. I still haven’t beaten it but I find it much better than the first one.

Nocturne – When I got this game I thougt to myself, ” Hey, I beat a bunch a shin-megami tensei games, I think I should play this one on hard. Oh, and I also should only increase my luck stat until it maxes out. That’ll make me get women “. How wrong I was. This game beat my ass into a pulp. Although I never had trouble with matador ( When all my demons were dead and when he was almost dead my main character countered with his attack maxed out, than got a critical with lunge, than another. That was the only time my beastly luck helped out ) I constantly died from back-attacks ( on hard when you get back-attacked the enemies always critical your ass ), and I must have died 100 times on the last of the four oni’s. The only thing I used a guide on in the game was to do that pyro jack block puzzle which gave me a frikin head-ache. I found the game to great except for the fact of how hard it was due to its unfairness.

I would comment on the digital devil saga but I’m too lazy. I hope I can hear your thoughts on Persona 4 when you get it ( also your comments on the ending to persona 3 ).

Long live the spoon!

If you get hit with a -kaja or -kunda spell, it always tells you what it did. “Magic attack down!” or something like that. The only ones that I don’t recall ever saying what they did were dekaja and dekunda. Those being fairly self-explanatory. They remove any stat boosts/drops.

Persona 2: Innocent Sin seems like it would be much better suited to your tastes. I first played through it about 3 years ago, before the translation patch was finished, with a translated script. It was worth every little ounce of frustration I had to go through. I really feel for the people that played through Eternal Punishment first (since it was domestically released) as EP spoils nearly every major plot twist in IS.

Whoa! Did you see that? When Spoony talks about summoning demons, all of his books move on the top shelf. Spoony, I think you are being stalked!

I definitely understand his problems with P3.

I even overlooked the majority of the issues he raises. But the combination of Hama/Mudo and getting Game Over if you get one-hit killed never failed to make me supremely pissed. Eventually I started making sure I had Personas that were immune to one or both of them, and just keeping it on in any fight with enemies capable of using the spells. Even if it wasn’t really an issue anymore, it cheapened the gameplay having to swap out to a “safe” Persona everytime some grunt with Mudo pops up.

My sister’s about halfway through Nocturne, and she’s 14. She’s having a lot of trouble, but she’s making her way through without a guide.

I really do want to get into this series more. I do have P3FES and I also play the free MMOrpg Shin Megami Tensei Imagine. I love Atlus because they tend to release good, deceptively hard and challenging games no matter what series is involved. They helped release many more rpgs like Odin Sphere, The Dark Spire (both of which I have), and so on. I’ll try to find Nocturne and the Digital Devil Saga sometime. I also want to get Demon’s Souls for the PS3 and Devil Survivor for the DS.

Man do I hate Star Ocean. I played the Second Story for about five minutes and gave it back to my friend I borrowed it from the next day.

The thing that is so awesome about Persona is the total immersion into a completely different world, where you interact with enemies and make deals with them rather than just fight them. It is deeply immersed in mythology and as a kid; I loved reading about the old world mythologies and still do. In Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, it was awesome going to talk to everyone after every major game event. It was especially cool since a lot of the characters from Persona 1 are hanging around and you can talk to them. The character development is top notch, and the story from both Persona 1 and 2 was really good. The connection between the games really made it feel like a more immersive world. The rumor system in Persona 2 was a blast, allowing you to manipulate the game in subtle ways, like making it easy to win certain games at the casinos or making rare items appear at various shops, also enhancing replay value by allowing you to choose the other rumor in the next game. The ability to select your fifth character in Persona 1 enhances replay value too, just not as much.

I really like the names of the spells, it is really a throwback to the old days of RPGs like Phantasy Star 2 or Dragon Warrior where you had no idea what the names of spells are and it really requires a lot of learning and trial and error in the game to put together strategies.

Those GBA Shin Megami Tensei games you were mentioning?

Demikids.

Also known as Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Children.

They’re pretty fun, and really -ARE- basically just demonic pokemon. The gameplay is simple, but it works, and although the game seems a lot more kid-friendly, that just makes it all the more hilarious when you SUMMON SATAN. I’d recommend giving it a shot; there’s two versions, both follow the same story but from different perspectives, the “Light” version having more simple monster combining things, while the “Dark” version using more typical SMT styles. Plus, the Dark version is the one where you work for Satan.

Those GBA Shin Megami Tensei games you were mentioning?

Demikids.

Also known as Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Children.

They’re pretty fun, and really -ARE- basically just demonic pokemon. The gameplay is simple, but it works, and although the game seems a lot more kid-friendly, that just makes it all the more hilarious when you SUMMON SATAN. I’d recommend giving it a shot; there’s two versions, both follow the same story but from different perspectives, the “Light” version having more simple monster combining things, while the “Dark” version using more typical SMT styles. Plus, the Dark version is the one where you work for Satan.

I think the thing about Persona is pretty much what you said: you end up getting so far in the game that when the stupid thing starts hitting you with near impossible bosses, you’re to the point where you’re going, “Fuck this, I put so much work into this, I am seeing the ending.” I have to say, P3 did start off slow, but it’s going to get better from the point you’re at onward.

Persona 4 is actually a lot like 3, even with the school thing coming back. I actually think the storyline of 4 is a little more interesting, though I think I liked the characters in 3 more, so it’s a toss up. The difference, imo, is that Persona 4 kicks 3 out of the water in terms of how hard it is – not because of the weaknesses, but I found I had to do a LOT more level grinding.

I do think I like the game because it IS edgy, though. It sort of thumbs it’s nose at a lot of subjects video games don’t touch, especially in 4 (which I won’t mention, since you said you haven’t played yet). I actually think how hard they are is to its benefit to people like me – difficulty only pulls me in more.

Also, re: Star Ocean. SO2 had a good story! But I agree, the later games’ cut scenes are insane. I do like the Private Action system, though, and someone mentioned the customization system too. If you don’t like a game like FF8, I am absolutely not shocked you don’t like the SO series, either. :)

I’ve got Persona 3 FES and 4, but they are last on my queue of games (saving the best for last…hopefully). I also happen to know that these games are a double grind; you have to grind up your personas and your levels in these games. From what I’ve heard, the persona grind is more replaced by the social link grind in FES.

Currently playing FFXII and surprisingly having a blast. My friends were really down on this game, but to me it is awesome. For one thing, the game world was slightly restrictive at first, but the world map is expansive with tons of stuff to explore and the game allows you to try and explore areas or go on hunts that could completely wipe you out, and it becomes a challenge to try and explore these kind of areas and defeat these powerful creatures. The gambit system is phenomenal, allowing you to control your other two characters by proxy, and is one of the most advanced AIs systems I have seen (Not as good as Dragon Warrior IV/Dragon Quest VIII though. But to be fair they cheat. They AI for monsters and allies often do things in response to the combat turns, something you cannot do when controlling them such as healing themselves when they lose a ton of HP in the same turn from say 100% HP.). Another thing I like is that with six characters, if your three characters die, you can swap in the other three, I’ve always liked that, and few games actually use that (Dragon Warrior IV did, but only if you had the caravan at the time). The battle system is fast and running away or avoiding combat is very easy. The only disappointing thing is that there are a multitude of races, but the party is five humes and a viera. I understand that it is Ivalice though and the religion, politics, and wars of humes are king. The character development is rather thin, kind of a throwback to Final Fantasy IV, and the story is a highly political one, and really does not hold a candle to Final Fantasy Tactics’ engrossing story of religion, politics, and a lie of history. Still, I am killing creatures and looting stuff and having fun.

The only other game series that is immersive as Persona is Suikoden, which really is excellent due to the links between the games from characters to world history. The collection of 108 characters leads to an insane replay value as you can replay the game and develop different characters, find unique combos, etc. The games also battle tremendously fast (except Suikoden III sadly), allowing you to develop them all if you want.

Of the recent ones, Suikoden V is excellent. It does not surpass Suikoden II, but it comes damn close. It has anime cutscenes ala Lunar, excellent voice acting, music, graphics, great character development for the core characters, even the side characters are better developed than in preceding games, the mass battle system is a more RTS style, much more to my liking, and the story of politics and war is a little less predictable this time around. We even have the link to the old Playstation Suikodens in the Syndar crew of Killey (Suikoden II) and Lorelei (Suikoden I and II), and Georg from Suikoden II takes center stage. They even managed to make the skill system from Suikoden III work in a balanced way.

I’ve got Persona 3 FES and 4, but they are last on my queue of games (saving the best for last…hopefully). I also happen to know that these games are a double grind; you have to grind up your personas and your levels in these games. From what I’ve heard, the persona grind is more replaced by the social link grind in FES.

Currently playing FFXII and surprisingly having a blast. My friends were really down on this game, but to me it is awesome. For one thing, the game world was slightly restrictive at first, but the world map is expansive with tons of stuff to explore and the game allows you to try and explore areas or go on hunts that could completely wipe you out, and it becomes a challenge to try and explore these kind of areas and defeat these powerful creatures. The gambit system is phenomenal, allowing you to control your other two characters by proxy, and is one of the most advanced AIs systems I have seen (Not as good as Dragon Warrior IV/Dragon Quest VIII though. But to be fair they cheat. They AI for monsters and allies often do things in response to the combat turns, something you cannot do when controlling them such as healing themselves when they lose a ton of HP in the same turn from say 100% HP.). Another thing I like is that with six characters, if your three characters die, you can swap in the other three, I’ve always liked that, and few games actually use that (Dragon Warrior IV did, but only if you had the caravan at the time). The battle system is fast and running away or avoiding combat is very easy. The only disappointing thing is that there are a multitude of races, but the party is five humes and a viera. I understand that it is Ivalice though and the religion, politics, and wars of humes are king. The character development is rather thin, kind of a throwback to Final Fantasy IV, and the story is a highly political one, and really does not hold a candle to Final Fantasy Tactics’ engrossing story of religion, politics, and a lie of history. Still, I am killing creatures and looting stuff and having fun.

The only other game series that is immersive as Persona is Suikoden, which really is excellent due to the links between the games from characters to world history. The collection of 108 characters leads to an insane replay value as you can replay the game and develop different characters, find unique combos, etc. The games also battle tremendously fast (except Suikoden III sadly), allowing you to develop them all if you want.

Of the recent ones, Suikoden V is excellent. It does not surpass Suikoden II, but it comes damn close. It has anime cutscenes ala Lunar, excellent voice acting, music, graphics, great character development for the core characters, even the side characters are better developed than in preceding games, the mass battle system is a more RTS style, much more to my liking, and the story of politics and war is a little less predictable this time around. We even have the link to the old Playstation Suikodens in the Syndar crew of Killey (Suikoden II) and Lorelei (Suikoden I and II), and Georg from Suikoden II takes center stage. They even managed to make the skill system from Suikoden III work in a balanced way.

Hi Spoony! I’m a long time reader/viewer (even read some of your articles in KOTDT!), first time commentator. Anyway, your feelings on the various recent Shin Megami Tensei games are similar to my own (except for Devil Summoner which I haven’t played). Without going on too long I thought I’d just share my own experiences with you and all you comment guys.

I first learned about Shin Megami Tensei through Digital Devil Saga, a game which unnerved me at the time because of the incredibly bleak setting. Digital Devil Saga may actually be a candidate for bleakest rpg ever, since everyone is EATING each other, constantly! What makes it even worse is that you have to participate in the cannibalism to get anywhere, and the game makes it clear that if you don’t you will just get munched on yourself (a new meaning to the term munchkin?). But while I found this premise initially off-putting, it really set the right flavour for an incredibly tough and unforgiving rpg. What I liked most about the combat system is that it is actually pretty realistic; once someone gets their weakness exploited, it is really hard for them to bounce back from the blow. You almost feel sorry for the guys you are fighting, but then you remember that they will cut you to pieces if you give them half a chance.

Without spoiling anything for those who haven’t played it, I really loved the story for both of the Digital Devil Saga games. I know a lot of people dislike the ending, and I agree that it could have resolved a lot more, but I do think that it was thematically appropriate. You also have to admit that it has one of the coolest final boss tunes ever.

After Digital Devil Saga, I played through Persona 3 (and later played through it again as Persona 3 FES, so you can tell I liked the game quite a bit). When I first started playing it I originally felt as though I was being forced to go through the boring school parts in order to get to the fun dungeon parts, but as I played through it the reverse seemed to be true. While Tartarus gets a bit old after a while, once you get to the end of your friendships with people you feel genuinely rewarded for having put the time into the game. Persona 3 lured me into the world bit by bit, and made me want to keep playing.

I am going to guess that you will like the ending to Persona 3, Spoony, but be sure to play through the extra FES chapter too (it’s not strictly required, but I imagine you will be glad you did if you can stand even more level grinding). Actually, I have to say that I both like and hate the ending to Persona 3, because it both does and doesn’t satisfy. That’s all I’m going to say. :)

Oh yeah, and don’t play it on hard unless you enjoy self-inflicted pain. I played it through on hard the second time and…it was an experience.

The third Shin Megami Tensei game I played was Nocturne, and your thoughts are similar to mine. I really enjoy a challenging turn based rpg, and I really enjoyed Nocturne, and just to brag a bit I was able to get through MOST of the game without a strategy guide (though that is probably because I had already played through Digital Devil Saga). I do feel that it was a bit too stark at times. I also felt that the basic final dungeon is a little bland, though the inclusion of the optional dungeon more than makes up for it. It’s a really solid rpg and I love the demonic Pokemon aspect, but I still prefer Digital Devil Saga for the story.

Since this comment is getting out of hand, I’ll just briefly mention Shin Megami Tensei Imagine, which is a free online game that I occasionally play. It’s fun to run around collecting demons, and the combat system is alright (at least I think so, though I haven’t played too many mmos). My biggest problem with it is the storyline, which is actually pretty good….but totally unfinished at the time of this posting. You get up to a certain point doing the acts when things start getting serious in the apocalyptic wasteland of a world and then…it ends. There aren’t too many locations either, but it still is fun to play. Hopefully more updates will be added soon.

And that’s my life story, hope you enjoyed it. You rock Spoony, you comment guys rock too, and I’ll see you all later. :)

Are planning on doing a follow-up when you begin Persona 4? I’ve been dying to play that game after I saw GameTrailer’s review on it and I wanna know what you think of it.

Also, which Star Ocean game(s) did you play? I picked up Star Ocean The Last Hope when I was on vacation and I thought it was pretty good. I’ve kinda abandoned it at this point, mostly because some of the characters are SO DAMN ANNOYING.

I loooove persona 4, i really do. it had me hooked from start to end.
the story starts right at the start as well, that helps.

oh and the protagonist still gameovers you if he dies, but your friends very quickly get a skill that picks you up if you go down. so it turns into ‘once everyone else is down, and your down, you die’.

but yeah 70 hours of entertainment, very well done. great voice acting and gripping detective story. wonderful :)

Name me another rpg like the persona series….

That’s what I thought!

That’s why I play it. It is weird, quirky, and addictive. Story line is interesting enough, not that great.

Towards the end of P3 and P4, you can summon not just Satan, but the Messiah too. And they got a combination attack if I remember correctly. Its pretty fucking awesome going around beating the shit out of stuff with Jesus and the Devil coming out of your head. What other game lets you do that?

Spoony, I’m pretty sure you’ll love Persona 4.

Like you say, Persona 3 has no story but Persona 4 has this ongoing story about a serial killer who kidnaps people and throws them in this shadow world inside the TV.

Every time someone is kidnapped, you enter this pseudo-fruedian world based on their own psychological problems.

For instance, there’s a guy who thinks he might be gay, so you enter this sauna filled with bodybuilder demons. Or there’s a psycho nerd and his world is basically an 8-bit RPG.

It basically takes everything that made Persona 3 good and adds steroids while at the same time, giving the finger to everything that made it suck.

Hi i’ve been watching for a long time and i kinda thought i should comment on this and share my thoughts cuz i’m sorta of a fan of the Shin Megami Tensei series soooo without further adue here’s my thoughts and feelings towards the games i’ve played :)

Yay for Shin Megami, too bad i’ve only played the PS2 ones but here goes:

I have to agree on everything you said about the games of this series on the PS2

Nocturne was hard really hard i played it till like 30% of the whole game and i just got fed up with it i liked the story and i hated myself when i actually had to read wikipedia on it. Then my friend told me he passed it and i just envied him, might try it again at a later time.
Digital Devil Saga is still my fav on this, the combat, the story, the setting everything just got me into it and i agree on your thoughts on the ending it was dull. At first i was like “Oh cool god’s a pillar?” then i was like “Why should i fight god?”. Still my personal favourite
Devil Summoner, haven’t played it, looks interesting but never got to it
Persona 3 really good combat system, solid storyline (not great as the others) but a really needy game. I just want to fight in the tower not do my math homework i get enough of that like this and that’s the biggest thing that got me away from it. Didn’t finish it i’m afraid mostly because my friends stopped playing it and it just got dull as i was progressing. And i still wish they’d make a better design for summoning Personas. Seriously a gun to the head is just waaaaay too suggestive in my opinion. I liked it mostly cuz it was weird and i like weird and dark, the combat got me most on to it though.
Persona 4, i still haven’t gotten to it, i was thinking on getting it but i immediately make it as a comparison to Persona 3 and it just gets me out of it, i dunno prove me wrong on that.

I think there’s also a free Shin Megami MMO but i can’t remember the name, you might wanna try it, i didn’t cuz i gave up on MMO’s since Dekaron/2Moons.

What brings me to buying the Persona games is that it reminds me of old school dungeon crawlers. I’m one of those people who enjoy grinding and hate the RPG’s that let you just walk through.

Yeah, well anyway spoony Persona 4 fixes a lot of Persona 3′s problems:

-You can choose to directly control your party and even if you don’t, all tactical options are available from the start.
-You still game over if the main character falls, but if you befriend your part members they’ll take blows for you that would normally kill you (and later can survie Mudo through their determination to help you succeed).
-Every party member has a social link
-The social dynamic is more eventful
-Sexual harassment (to you by someone else) that actually gets pretty extreme if you’re not assertive in resisting.
-The social links are easier to maintain.

Thing is, all those bosses you thought were tricky in P3? They are EASY compared to some of the ones in P4. In the first two you’ll be screaming profanities. They scaled better than Matador in Nocturne, but you’ll have to grind for at least 2 additional levels pretty consistently.

I have beaten Nocturne 3 times with different endings, 100% demons in the Demonic Compendium, and getting all of the Magatama (over 200 hours)… Beating Lucifer with a level 80 Pixie is awesome!! I like the Shin Megami Tensei series since I like the different demons and their personalities. The story line is also a plus. I have no problem with the name of the spells, but it took some time to remember them. I just can’t wait to get Persona for the PSP.

The Soulless Army is a tedious game, but the ending gets quite strange again. Maybe in a good way. More rockets and giant robots with zombies and battleships with time travel

Personally I love all of the Shin Megami Tensei games. Second favorite to Dragon Quest series. But Megaten games are very mature, a lot of fun to play, and over all a lot of fun. I like avatar tuner as a series over the persona series, but both are actually exceptionally good.

Oh, I simply LOVED the Shin Megami Tensei series since I first played the first SMT game through a translated ROM patch for Super Famicom (haven’t played the Famicom game, though it is based on a horror novel, which is kinda cool sounding). It was just instant love right there. Eventually I knew all the demon’s tricks and could get pretty much all of them to do what I said, which feels really good to gain that kind of control. I got Persona 3 FES, which I really like, but I’m super-afraid of my PS2 breaking down that I haven’t really been touching that console lately.

If I had to tell you why I liked that game, it would probably have to be the monster designs. They just fascinate me so much and I love looking at them. Whoever did those (I’m having trouble locating any information, though, it is probably one or more of the following: Sawako Satoh, Tetsuya Murakami, Izumi Kataoka, Shirou Takashima, and/or Kazuma Kaneko) needs some serious recognition.

Post script. You have nocturne you’re a hero. I do agree with some of your gripes but it was alsos till one of the best RPGs you’ve ever played including the multiple endings.

Persona 4 is better than Persona 3. The story is better and the conclusion the characters go to make sense if you think about it and you can control everybody which every other rpg does so you can keep exploiting weaknesses and you can attack right after you get back up. I liked the story in P4 even better because it was a murder mystery and it does hold tension.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten2.htm

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/megaten/megaten2.htm

You hate star ocean eh? The third one sucked with its broken rock, paper, scissors. Star ocean 2 is much better, if you can find it!

I have to say that some of your gripes however I did find a little absurd. Like the strategy guide comment on nocturne I finished it fairly well the only thing that gave me some problems was the secret Lucifer boss fight. The real trick is the megatama you have equipped and the abilities you set. My ultimate team was Black Frost, Metatron, and Beelzebub. Very difficult but a lot of it also has to do with the mythology of the demons themselves. With Digital Devil Saga you fight god to prove a point. It’s actually a direct connection to nocturne in this sense. At the end of nocturnes true ending involving Lucifer you in essence break humanity from the chains of fate. Digital Devil Saga is the follow up after humanity is left to run on free will alone. Where the god fight is to prove the point that humanity is worth saving even with free will. The answer to the question to fix it is Unity. Humanity lost it’s unity. Your characters sacrificed their lives to send their solar data and return to god to get this answer and to fix what needed to be fixed. Devil Summoner 1 I found somewhat dull with the combat but the ending was very unique. Devil Summoner 2 is actually much better game play wise which I have yet to finish but excellent. Persona 3 I loved as a game only because of the ending. The story was very good when it developed but the ending was the wow moment. I felt P4 was designed better game play wise and I liked it fairly the same when P4 ended but I still think I prefer P3. One gripe I do agree with you with is in the persona series is when the main character dies it’s game over. But in nocturne it makes sense because he is simply the main characters and the demons aren’t exactly the most trust worthy bunch. The series is full controversy and displays god as a very black and white figure where Lucifer is an idealist. The essence of the game is Lucifer giving you an opportunity by unbinding you from fate. It’s very clever and very fun to me.

Don’t worry about saying something bad about Star Ocean IV, it was shit, and that comes from a long time fan of the series, lots of the fanbase also agree on how lame IV was. Really bad written and stupid script, shallow characters, and horrible, horrible voice acting. I haven’t finished Eternal Sonata, but it doesn’t look so bad.

If you want a really good jrpg for the 360 try Tales of Vesperia, is my favourite jrpg in the 360 right now, great characters, excellent battle system and decent story.Try any game of the Tales series, it’s great (my favourite rpg series), but since you have a 360 you can play Vesperia, wich I think is the best on the series.

Have you ever played star craft? and if so did you like it?

In the first persona 2, the villians are trying to ressurect hitler, and you can get in a homosexual relationship, needless to say we did not get it but thankfully someone translated it (look up Persona 2 Innocent sin in google and it pops up)

hahaha, aw man sounds like someone is too used to those simplistic final fantasy RPG’s. Persona and the Shin Megami Tensei series are not for the faint of heart. These are hardcore RPG’s aimed for adults. Never needed to consult any strategy guide for any of them that I have played, you just got to know how to play the game. The games are incredible, and probably one of the best RPG series out there. Altus is a smaller design studio so don’t expect them to waste money on CGI the good people there focus on the heart of any RPG… THE STORY!

Also,

It’s good you talked about the Shin Megami Tensei series. Altus games are sort of an underground thing for serious RPG players. You have to search for them for one thing, and not too many people talk about them unless they have actually played them.

Ha, I am am playing the Persona games too and got them all while still being in Persona 3 cause I got good deals.

If you think the normal story in Persona 3 is hard, wait until you get to the FES add on it is really hard.

I got into them on a reference and I enjoyed Persona 3′s main story and it was a good deal given gameplay per dollar.

I also skipped the Devil summoner etc. title.

Any ideas what will happen when they take the shim megami tensei to the ps3???

Having played through Persona 4 first, and then playing through Persona 3: FES after that, I can say that I didn’t enjoy P3: FES quite as much as P4.

While somethings are similar, the change from P3 to P4 that I think really makes the difference is the ability to control your party members, instead of just giving them commands. You can also chose which abilities they lose or keep when they level up as well. In battle they also gave you the guard command, so when a shadow uses an element a party member is weak to, if you’re guarding it won’t knock them down and give them an extra turn. Getting up when being knocked also doesn’t blackhole a turn either, so it’s less likely that you’ll get fucked by some asshole shadow that wants to chain knock you down like in P3. It’s still game over if your main character dies, but your other party members can also take a fatal blow for you MC if an attack would kill him.

Social links in P4 are also easier to manage. If you get a girlfriend, you don’t have to disregard other girls (I think I had I relationship with each girl in the game by the end of it). Also, you don’t have to hang out with the Social Link friends all the time; they never get mad at you if you stop hanging around with them for a while. Social links with your party members make them better. At just one rank, you gain that ability for them to guard a fatal attack for your MC, three gives them the chance for an extra attack, five lets them help knocked down allies get back up, seven lets them heal status effects, nine lets them live with 1 HP if an attack would kill them once per battle, and at 10 you upgrade their persona, which makes most of the characters lose their weakness and gain immunities/resistances.

Finally, I think the story is better in P4. It revolves mostly around a murder mystery, and it can be kind of exciting to follow and find out more details about who could be involved, or what exactly is going on with the number of kidnappings, etc.

I know that Persona 3 and 4 can be frustrating sometimes (you’re not the only one who’s died to random bullshit from shadows!), but in the end I think the story and game play are rewarding. And hell, if you like the game enough you can play on New Game+ and fight the optional bosses and whatnot.

If you want to play a really good Shin Megami Tensei game for the DS, I would totally check out Devil Survivor. It has that fuse demons to make new ones pokemonish feel like in devil survivor, but it’s a turn-based strategy game. The story revolves around demons suddenly coming to Tokyo, forcing it to be cut off from the outside world. Decisions you make in the game are also meaningful, as some characters live or die, or you can get different endings depending on the choices you make.

I’ve played lots of the MegaTen games. And I really enjoy them too. I’d say I share the observation that they’re “cheaply made”, but still good (and strangely addictive). It’s obvious they don’t have Square Enix game budgets.

Nocturne:
I finally got Nocturne and loved it. I played all the way through and got the True Demon Ending that Spoony mentioned. The game is pretty hard, unforgiving, and a bit unfair, but it’s also very strategic. The debuff and buff spells actually work on bosses and are pretty much essential. I saw the final boss battle on Youtube before playing the game, and that really pressed that point to me. I did post on a forum to see if there was anything to look out for and got tipped off about Matador and keeping the Pixie.

Other than that I did have to look up what skills/magic did as it was my first SMT game (and what skills where learned at what level from the Magatama), but I made it through without reading a FAQ and following it to the letter. Keeping a demon around with Analyze really helps there too. (I found my way through the Labyrinth of Amala and Temple of Amala areas on my own.) It’s a hard game, but if you knew what the spells/skills do I don’t think you’d need a FAQ or walkthrough.

Persona 4:
After that, I played Persona 4. I’d really recommend Spoony plays it after playing FES as it’s improves on FES in every area that needs it. FES doesn’t let you access your other party member’s equipment or status screens without talking to them or Fuuka in Tartarus. And that kind of makes sense…why would you be able to change the sword somebody uses when you’re in your bedroom and they’re at their own house? But, it’s not “fun” and people kind of expect. They added a fast travel option so you don’t have to walk so much. And they made the menu open in half the time (no huge sprites of the MC and his current Persona in it probably helps).

The story and characters are all great. The voice acting is pretty good in general. It is a long ass game though and going through the dungeons can get tedious and grindy still though.

The credits still roll if the main character dies, but the other party members will throw him out of the way of a mortal blow once per battle. They can also provide follow up attacks to knock down additional enemies when you strike a weakness, and you can directly control them instead of dealing with the sometimes pretty appallingly stupid AI.

Persona 3: FES
I’m currently playing through FES for the first time myself. I like it, but so far (I’m in November) I still like P4 more.

i believe there is a free mmorpg for shin megami tensei call Shin Megami Tensei Imagine lol

Understand your frustration Spoony, all the games have their flaws and weaknesses and the friggin spel-names got me confused. Especially trying to learn which one cause status ailgments and under what sub-category, mind, curse or nerve. Gaaah!

I was a masochist and played Nocturne the first time on hard. I hade finishes Suikoden 1,2 and 5 and was so disappointed a I was power house after like half the game so the bosses just barely scratched me so I felt “I get to chose between normal or hard? I am HARD man, bring it on!”. I must say however the difficulty should be called “annoying” since it mean that you always have too little cash since everything in the game costs ten times the usual price, the enemies deal WAY more damage and you can practically only escape using smoke balls or you will fail if you try retreating normally.

Anyway I played through the game using a guide MAINLY to save time, looked at the stats of the bosses and then just played my own strategy. At least half of the bosses I beat with my own strategy which felt really fulfilling since I hate not coming up with your own strategy. However I actually found the perfect trio one third into the game and stuck with them never needing to change them, I kid you not! I can tell you what it is but if you really want to think out one of your own I will put a spoiler-warning here:
******* Strategy Spoiler******
Basically 3 of the fiends are superb allies throughout the game, namely Daisoujou, Hell Biker and White Rider. The reason fiends are so good is that they have NO weaknesses and are immune to death/expel and all status ailments. This doesn’t only makes regular enemies laughable when they try to use any of these… they will also be power house against bosses that tries the same… thus making them loose turns. There are other fiends I know but what makes Daisoujou very useful is that he is a heck of a healer since he has prayer, which means that you don’t have to worry if you hero gets struck with a status ailment since prayer not only heals the team up to max hp… it also removes all ailments! He also has the sneaky and useful skill meditation which means he never needs items to refill mana since it drains mana and HP but the best part is that a lot of the early bosses and a lot of the fiends can be drained of all their MPs making them sitting ducks since they try to use magic eventhough the don’t have MP loosing all their turns always! The best of all: meditation is impossible to void since it isn’t seen as magic or physical.

Hell Biker is mainly cool, a demon on a Harley… beat that coolness! ;) He is a very all-in-one dude since he has fire attacks, physical attack-all and hell exhaust that deals force damage AND remove any buffs the enemies may have. He can then be customized a little bit how you like it. I put some debuffing- and buffing-spells in his artillery so he has something to do while waiting for the team to get buffed up during boss-fights.

Lastly the White Rider, I only say one thing: God’s Bow. How useful you think an expel-spell is that hits with 100% accuracy as long as the enemy can void it? Makes random battles a breeze I tell you. And Prominence: one of the strongest, if not THE strongest, fire attack in the game. I also had him like, the biker, as a all-in-one dude with a ice-spell just in case the enemies were strong against it since when they are they usually are weak or can’t void the opposite.

All in all the fineds all had a mixture of all the 4 elements (Ligtning, force, fire and ice) and at least 2 buff- or/and debuff spells. The hero was a pure physical-tank and by the end also had the almighty single-target attack and the strongest almighty-spell. I must say that like at most 2 bosses gave me a hard time and I didn’t need to change my 3 demons at all, I usually just ingested a different magatama on my hero to make it.

******spoiler end*******

Well that is my piece of mind, I guess I win the “long-comment”-award but it was mosylt to point out that it is actually not needed to switch demons all the time for every boss battle Spoony. You just need to be pretentious twat like me that tries to build optimal teams. ;) Great game though, gets cooler the closer to the end you get and the music kicks ass, especially the battle theme when fighting Dante.

Chances are you will never read this but anyway. For Persona 3, I think the reason why if the hero falls it’s game over is because if you think about it you PLAY the hero more then you PLAY the party. Think if the battle is over and the hero is dead, how the hell are you going to move? You’d just be a corpse laying in the middle of the field while your party members stand over you telling you how great they feel. Yes, it is incredibly annoying to die because of one lucky Hama/Mudo spell, that’s why you invest in Homunculuses (or would that be Homunculi?), you can get them at the Antique shop and just having them in your inventory will save you from Hama or Mudo spells. 1 homunculus equals 1 time save from Hama/Mudo spells. After that get Personas that protect from Hama/Mudo spells. Persona 4 does solve this problem in a way since your party members will actually take mortal blows (including instant death spells) for the Hero. But you will still get the bad beat down sometimes.

Why I like the series? It’s addicting. Why is it addicting? I have no idea, I guess it gives you JUST enough reward for doing well that it makes up for the hours upon hours of lost time and death.

PS: What’s at the top of Tartarus isn’t a pillar pretending to be God. It is actually THE COOLEST FINAL BOSS BATTLE EVER!!

You should try out Devil Survivor on DS. I’d argue that it’s the best game in the SMT series because it doesn’t have all that micromanagement garbage that the persona games have.

Persona 4′s addressed a lot of the issues that you didn’t like in 3 so I think you’ll like it a lot, but it’s still a Persona game with all that living-vicariously-through-school, and final fantasy 8-esque micromanagement nonsense. I always felt like those games introduce you to the characters really slowly with a hand-holding presentation but then the story drops off completely saying “by the way here’s like 20 different things you have to worry about-good luck”

Again though, Devil Survivor (not to be confused with devil summoner) is extremely good- the combat is all turn based, but the movement is SRPG style; an interesting (and well-implemented) mix. Also, the story is extremely compelling which is something I couldn’t say about Nocturne and Persona.

Oh, and on the Xbox 360 RPG note. Yeah, I didn’t like Lost Odyssey or Star Ocean either… I DID like, however, Tales of Vesperia. It’s cliche, but extremely well made. If you’re gonna play one of the Tales games, It’d have to be Vesperia. It has a fun cast of characters and genuinely funny moments (though some of the laughs come from the game being self-aware of the flagrant cliches).

A big corporation extracting life essences from people… like in Advance Wars, FF7, and the Matrix (well, it was the robots, but I digress). What is up with the Japanese and “extracting life essence” or just “life essence” in general?

Lol, you fight god… like in Final Fantasy. I forget which Final Fantasy it was, but I think it was 6.
What do you have against Action RPGs?
If you like how you can summon the devil to kill people, why don’t you get into Death Note?

Lol, you fight god… like in Final Fantasy. I forget which Final Fantasy it was, but I think it was 6.
What do you have against Action RPGs?
If you like how you can summon the devil to kill people, why don’t you get into Death Note?

Spoony, you will like Persona 4. if you got through Persona 3 FES you will like P4. but you will want to grind a lot in P4.

Are you familiar with visual novels, Spoony? Like Phoenix Wright? Because Persona 3 and 4 are pretty much RPG/Visual novel hybrids.

Yeah, from the LPs I’ve seen of Persona 3/4 the games are pretty good. Persona 4 is certainly an improvement gameplay-wise (you can control your partners directly now to make sure they won’t cast something that is useless for the situation) at least.

The only Shin Megami game I’ve played is Persona 3 and I absolutely hated it.The repetitive, grating J-pop soundtrack that played in town always had me muting my TV, the social aspects were just annoying to keep up with, and the tower was repetitive and boring.

Hell yes Shin Megami Tensei. I liked Nocturne a lot, though I admit I had some of the problems you mentioned with the bosses. I don’t know if you played it on hard mode, but it’s absolutely brutal – the enemies’ instant death spells are more effective, you get ambushed more often, you can’t escape battles, etc.

I’m not sure how I feel about Devil Summoner. I love the atmosphere, setting, music and so on, but the gameplay is awful. I really want to keep playing it for the story, but the constant random battles while you’re running around town looking for information and the awkward battles controls just piss me off. I’ve heard the sequel is better, but I haven’t gotten it. Anyway, nice to see you like SMT; it’s definitely a breath of fresh air compared to the usual stale RPG fare.

After the middle point, the game becomes increasingly more epic and the game has some of the best build up to a final fight I’ve ever seen in a videogame. I had to push myself to get through it until halfway where the story really takes shape and it hooked me in.
Persona 3 is also the only SMT game I’ve ever beaten, dispite owning just about all of them. Nocturne raped me with it’s difficulty and the farthest I ever got was that tower with the three women demons. I got to the end of DDS1 and for some reason stopped, I don’t remember why. In DDS2 I got to the first actually difficult fight and lost interest for some reason. Devil Summoner had such a bad battle system and such high encounters that I hated it. The only game series that I ever consistently went through were the Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, and Chrono series.
I stopped playing Persona 4 a month or so back, but hearing you talk about these games, I think I’ll go back and start playing it again, along with the rest of them (except maybe Devil Summoner).
Oh, and I completely agree with what you said about Star Ocean and Eternal Sonata. ESPECIALLY Eternal Sonata, one of the worst RPGs I’ve ever played. I never understood why there are so many good reviews for such a horrible game; in fact, it’s right up there with Rogue Galaxy and Final Fantasy XII as the most disgustingly horrible RPGs ever. The only two GOOD RPGs released in the past few years that I’ve played were Disgaea 3 and Valkyria Chronicles.
But really, you need to beat Persona 3, it feels so, sooooo satisfying to beat that game, more than can be said for many games that have come out in this generation of systems. SMT is probably the coolest RPG series around today, in the face of what Final Fantasy has become (ever since FFX…)

After the middle point, the game becomes increasingly more epic and the game has some of the best build up to a final fight I’ve ever seen in a videogame. I had to push myself to get through it until halfway where the story really takes shape and it hooked me in.
Persona 3 is also the only SMT game I’ve ever beaten, dispite owning just about all of them. Nocturne raped me with it’s difficulty and the farthest I ever got was that tower with the three women demons. I got to the end of DDS1 and for some reason stopped, I don’t remember why. In DDS2 I got to the first actually difficult fight and lost interest for some reason. Devil Summoner had such a bad battle system and such high encounters that I hated it. The only game series that I ever consistently went through were the Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, and Chrono series.
I stopped playing Persona 4 a month or so back, but hearing you talk about these games, I think I’ll go back and start playing it again, along with the rest of them (except maybe Devil Summoner).
Oh, and I completely agree with what you said about Star Ocean and Eternal Sonata. ESPECIALLY Eternal Sonata, one of the worst RPGs I’ve ever played. I never understood why there are so many good reviews for such a horrible game; in fact, it’s right up there with Rogue Galaxy and Final Fantasy XII as the most disgustingly horrible RPGs ever. The only two GOOD RPGs released in the past few years that I’ve played were Disgaea 3 and Valkyria Chronicles.
But really, you need to beat Persona 3, it feels so, sooooo satisfying to beat that game, more than can be said for many games that have come out in this generation of systems. SMT is probably the coolest RPG series around today, in the face of what Final Fantasy has become (ever since FFX…)

I have persona 3 FES

and I need to play it

In final fantasy VIII you could summon “Diablo”

(please post this comment)

@Esteban #127:
“After that, I kind of fell out of love with JRPGs (blame Final Fantasy XII), and was definitely not in the frame of mind for something that hardcore, but I’ve been thinking about going back to Persona 2 for a while now (the game has both Satan and Lucifer as summons, by the way. Like Garth Ennis explain that one.)”
Not that hard, as they were separate characters originally. Lucifer was an angel separate from Satan until John Milton decided he would make them one and the same in Paradise Lost. Of course, that doesn’t mean the Persona 2 creators were aware of this…

Semi-related fun fact: Lucifer and Jesus share the title of Morning Star.

I hope you have a good time with Persona 4 when you get around to it. Much more forgiving than Persona 3, and I personally find the story and characters more interesting, though I definitely hate Teddie… he’s this annoying mascot character who gets even worse once you reach a certain point in the game, and one of the cutscenes that introduces his other form tends to make me feel dirty. Still, it’s a wonderful game, and worth investing some time in if you look past some of the faults it has.

I do agree that I hate that gimmick where if the MC dies, the game’s over… especially with those light and darkness skills.

The Shin Megami Tensei series is one of my favorite modern RPGS. Why do I love it? Because the game play is UNFAIR, I do enjoy the designs, I do enjoy the minimalist storyline, amd everything about it. However, even as a fan, there are plenty of flaws in the series even I will admit and there are one or two games which I don’t exactly enjoy but I don’t hate it though.

Nocturne was my first game in the series that I have play and it is still my personal favorite. I did play through the game the first time clocking over 90 hours and I did use a strategy guide. I am trying to play through a second time on Hard Mode and haven’t been using a guide but I don’t have the time to go through the game at the moment but would like to soon. It’s probably one of the few games in the rpg genre that I would play it again.

Most people nowadays probably do not enjoy the minimalist storyline but I do. I think most modern games has a bit too much storyline because I feel that they tend to utilize FMVs or like clips to progress through the story. Nocturne has multiple endings which depends on the choices that you make throughout the game and the fact the some of the endings of the game is not something you could say that it was a good or a bad which makes it even more interesting, I do agree with you about the points that you made about the design of the game feeling cheap. The translation probably does feel iffy and would affect the storyline but I wouldn’t know anything about it.

The first time I played the game, I have to admit that the spells names are hard to remember. After that, I really didn’t have a probably with it. I think is that since if I know which suffix is which one and what does what, I had no problem remembering the spell names anymore.

Yes, the game play is unfair but to me, the fact that you can customize you main character skills makes me feel like it balance it out. Maybe it just me, but I always try to set my characters with at least a “null” skill of their weakness, demons or the main character. But I can’t always set my character with null in the beginning but I don’t mind risking the chance though.

But in conclusion, Nocturne will still be my personally favorite because it does makes me feel like I am part of the game in a strange twisted way.

I don’t exactly blame you for not getting into the first Devil Summoner game. I thought that the gameplay was very bland and was very uninteresting. I am playing the second game at the moment and it does improve a lot of things but I don’t care for the action battle system myself though.

I do believe that you will enjoy Persona 4 more than you would enjoy Persona 3. Persona 4 has more of a story that starts from the beginning compare to Persona 3. Persona 4 in a way is even more accessible to the general public than compare to 3. It is easier to level up your social links, your schools stats, and there is not a huge tower with over 100 floors for you to go through. It’s weird for me to say this but I don’t like Persona 4 because it does not have a huge tower for me to go through.
In general, I don’t hate the Persona games but I rather go through tedious dungeons than going through these social link where I feel it kinda gets in the way and there are many times it seems very uninteresting,

In the end I think the only reason I am a big fan of the Shin Megami Tensei games is because I am a sadistic character who enjoy torturing herself with tedious and repetitive dungeons and unfair gameplay. I always enjoy a challenge.

I’m glad that you like Persona 3 and the SMT series in general. Have you thought about trying out Devil Survivor on the DS? I thought it was pretty good as well.

Though I tell ya, as much as I like the Persona series, I cannot, for the life of me, talk anyone into playing it. It’s like they’re afraid to playing anything outside of Final Fantasy or something (and even then, it seems like they all ignore the games before FF7. What the hell?).

I’m glad that you like Persona 3 and the SMT series in general. Have you thought about trying out Devil Survivor on the DS? I thought it was pretty good as well.

Though I tell ya, as much as I like the Persona series, I cannot, for the life of me, talk anyone into playing it. It’s like they’re afraid to playing anything outside of Final Fantasy or something (and even then, it seems like they all ignore the games before FF7. What the hell?).

Well Spoony, I can safely tell you that the story of Persona 4 is much better than the one in Persona 3 in the sense that it takes off very early and you have a better sense of urgency. Also, you can control your party members so no more of that bullshit that you’re about die, and Mitsuru uses that god damn Marin Karen rather than heal you, seriously fuck that spell. However, you still have to go to high school and all of that jazz and maybe that’s what attracted me to the games as they are so unlike any other RPG in the market as its more grounded to reality…sorta.

I’ve only played Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3 and seen a playthough of SMT: Persona 4.

One thing that, while trivial, irritated me is that in both Persona 3 and 4, the beginning support character is absolutely useless and annoying. Sure, they get replaced with a better character, but still.

Also, the Reaper in Shin Megami Tensei Persona 3 is just unfair. Here I go, just leveling up, when all of a sudden, FRIGGIN DEATH APPEARS! Your support character tells you to run, but most of the time you can’t run away the first time and the Reaper absolutely butt rapes you before you can try again!

And, the school, as you said, gets tedious after a while. And it’s really annoying trying to juggle seven friends at the same time.

Still, even with these issues, I’m addicted to it. Why? I absolutely have no idea. Maybe because the persona Jack Frost is so friggin awesome. Who knows?

Wow, you managed to trash all my favorite rpgs except Tales of Vesperia… Lost Odyssey, Star Ocean TLH, and Eternal Sonata. Have you enjoyed any of this generations rpgs?

You don’t like those RPG’s because they’re crappy JRPGs. Im in a rush so I cant give you an indepth argument or huge list of games, but seriously, play some western ones. Oblivion, Morrowind, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, all fantastic choices.

I’ve always wanted to try P3, P4 or even Parisite Eve but never got around to it
I’ll look into it

Dude the devil summoner game is really really rare.

About the Mudo and Hama spells, just get a homunculus. They protect you from them, and you can get about 20 of them pretty easily.

Persona 4 is a lot better as well, story starts off pretty fast and the characters are a lot more…real (I guess) then the ones in P3. They actually feel like they like the MC in P4 unlike P3′s. BTW, you can actually control your support characters in Persona 4. No more “MARIN KARIN” bullshit. Plus Social Links with your teammates actually help you by unlocking new abilities. First off being protection from a killing blow (Mudo, Hama, or any other spell that’s not AoE).

And Devil Survivor is amazing. As long as you appreciate a challenge. Jesus Fuck Baldr pissed me off.

Man Spoony AND Shin megami tensai. Two of my favorite things put together :) Anywho I do agree with you spoony on numerous points. I’m also in the club of barely playing devil summoner except I picked up number 2 as well. I believe these games are very easy to get hooked into because like you said, in a sea of rpg cliches and formula drivin games something different is definatly gonna stand out. I currently own all the shin megami games available in north america and I can definatly say they are the highlight of my ps2 collection. Also persona 3 does take a bit to get into but for myself it has probably my favorite rpg storyline so far and has yet to be beaten. Good job on ordering persona 4 as well. My view on that one (and I’m probably a minority on it) is that it improves the game in every way except I just didn’t like the story as much. Don’t get me wrong its a very good one but like I said persona 3 is still my favorite game story ever and gonna be hard to beat. When you do get persona 4 or even beat persona 3 you should do a quick vlog bout it. Anywho I look forward to seeing more from you and am sooooooo glad right now to know that you even know these games exist and let alone play them. Keep up the good work man.

I have to say, you dont know how happy you made me with this vid. I fucking luv the SMt series. Why?
…I dunno. Its just hooked me in, since I love both RPGs and Japanese culture. I will say, P3 can seem tedious, but the storyline after you get a certian character (Im not gonna say who, but it’s a ‘she’, in a sense. Youll get what I mean after your trip to Yakushima), the game gets much richer and more developed. The storyline becomes much deeper. However, It will probably get rather repetative since tartarus is rather dull and living day after day can be boring.
P4, however, improved P3 in every way. The story is absolutely AMAZING and it sucks you in from the beginning. Its also hilarious at points, but hold up a solumn tone when needed. The ‘dungeons’ have improved drastically and don’t feel nearly as repetative, as well as the dungeons are directly linked to the characters. I say P4 is totally worth the time, especially if you push through to the true ending.
And u should make a vlog if u finish P3 and P4 to say if you liked them.

I am a hardcore shin megami tensei fan. I’ve even read the original BBS board story that it was all based off of and started with shin megami tensei 1 for the fricken snes. All in all the reason I fell in love with the series is the atmosphere. The dark stylistic elements and modern settings that are hard to come by in most standard rpgs these days. I loved it cause it was different, it offered a choice and the paths you could take never really circled around the ideas of right and wrong. Its very philosophical in its story as it neither gives a right or a wrong path. Demons aren’t evil nor holy but a means to an end. I also loved how most of the creatures you encounter are actually based off of mythological folklore found around the world. The difficulty was merely an icing on the cake. You may not like the flavor but I sure appreciate it, especially with so many rpgs that don’t really require any real strategic effort to beat. It feels like you’re just walking some guy through a story book rather than fighting in a quest. I especially loved Devil summoner for all of these reasons as well, especially for its unique style that I found charming.

However, if you really want a fun experience I recommend playing Persona 2: Innocent sin; even though it was never localized to North America or Europe. It is still one of my absolute favorite, not just for its story or for its characters, but for the shear fact that you fight a magical wizard Hitler and his transformer mecha space Nazi’s.

I feel I could go on and on with how I love this series, but then again I’d probably keep repeating myself. All I can end with is that its a quirky series that not everyone will probably like, but can be you favorite flavor if it tickles your fancy.

~Also, I beat Nocturne. <3 It took me Eight years! but I eventually beat it XD

I want to like the SMT series, I really do. But so far the games I’ve played just haven’t done it for me. Here’s how I feel:

1) Persona – Everything about this game feels too rudimentary and tedious. First-person dungeons that all look the same, badly mangled translation, and the whole talking to demons to get them to join your party really slows everything down to a crawl, unfortunately. Add to that a huge map that is very easy to get lost in and some really poor graphics and you’ve got a game that I just got totally bored with.
2) Persona 2: Eternal Punishment – This game has a lot of the same problems as the other Persona game, but the cast is (mostly) even more annoying and the translation is even worse, plus the storyline just seems laughable.
3) Persona 3: FES – I, unlike apparently everyone else to comment on here, really enjoyed the S.Link stuff to the point where I almost wished the game was just that and not a lame ass dungeon crawler as well. Part of the reason for that is that we in America have never HAD a dating sim on a console, but also because I was forced to say and do things in order to keep up the S.Link that I normally wouldn’t only b/c I wanted the strengthening of that demon type. Again, found the generic dungeon/tower to be boring as hell. The lack of a storyline and the feeling like they were ripping off Evangelion (to echo the sentiments of another poster) pretty much ruined the non-S.Link portions of the game.
4) SMT: Nocturne – Tried it for a little while and enjoyed what I played of it, but haven’t gotten very far into the game.

I’ve also played some of the earlier, Japan-only SMT games but not very far, and since they’re first-person, I have a hard time enjoying them. I’m just not that into first-person dungeon crawlers (tho oddly enough, I like the console Wizardry series).

haha i could understand why devil summoner didnt catch on,
devil digital saga nevr played
nocturne, my friend has the game but hes being a dick for me to borrow

PERSONA 3 FES FTW!!!!

its pronounced F-E-S

What originally attracted the SMT series for me that it was an interesting WRPG/JRPG hybrid; that also featured the combination ofmodern/futuristic dystopian sci-fi with classical mythology.
Oh and Shin Megami Tensei 1 featured your pet dog being fused into a mighty lvl50 Cerberus in the beginning of the game; in which you began to beatdown everything in the opening dungeon.

If you’re interested in series; i highly recommend emulating the Persona 2: Innocent Sin translation. Its Persona 3 without the high school bullshit & pop music but with a lot more focus on the incredible character development of your party and the amazing plot.
I’ll go as far as to say its the Japanese equivalent of Planescape Torment.

I would totally recommend Persona 4 over Persona 3 but I would strongly encourage that if you play Persona 4. That you don’t use a strategy guide because its basically a solve the mystery type game and there’s an overwhelming sense of achievement if you can complete it without the guide.

I can’t believe you play SMT. For some reason I find that very surprising :o

Anyway, Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 are flat-out awesome. Unfortunately, I don’t have the game, but I watched all the cutscenes because I love the story (going to do the same for Nocturne soon). Now that I think about it, the ending could have been better. I still liked it though. Rarely do we find games aimed towards adults.

Star Ocean was good up until they totally botched everything that was good about it with 3 and replaced it with what we have now in 4…or so I hear since 3 killed my interest in the franchise long before 4 ever came out and I have no interest whatsoever in picking it up anymore. Briefly here’s what went wrong with the transition to PS2 with SO3:

The item creation system was changed from a fun thing to fool around with (in the field I might add) with 1 and 2, to an absolute chore in 3, the story was laugh out loud terrible (especially with it’s twist ending) and uninspiring, and the battle system ceased to be fun at all with the way encounters, character levelling curves and monster stats were balanced out (as in not at all). It must have changed development teams somewhere between 2 and 3, because there’s just no other explanation for how the two feel like totally different franchises. I think Valkyrie Profile had more in common with Star Ocean 2 than Star Ocean 3 did. Lastly the nail in the coffin came when even Japan hated the 3rd game upon it’s initial release, what with all of the gamebreaking bugs and the fact that it didn’t work on some versions of the PS2 at all, which I have to say is really special. The version we got was actually a directors cut that actually made it playable. Think about that for a moment.

Persona 3 is one of my favorite games. The gameplay is unique and takes in ideas that other RPGs avoid like the plague such as god, religions, and even dating.

A few things to help you in P3:FES (no spoilers)
-The item that avoids instant death is called a Homonculus and you can’t buy them. You find them inside chests in Tartarus.
-There is a new game plus mode for The Journey.
-If you are going to fight the secret boss, “The ultimate opponent” you should get a guide. It’s very challenging, trust me.
-The Answer is a sequel to The Journey and changes the game rules slightly and has much harder combat. A small of warning, it involves some level grinding.

Persona 4 is an awesome game that fixes most of the complaints you mentioned you had for Persona 3. Even for the ones that are still exist they are improved a little bit and made more tolerable. In fact, Persona 4 has a big list of game play improvements over Person 3. Both are great and I highly recommend you play Persona 4 as well.

What I like about the SMT is the monster you can summon like you can summon the god of death. I had have SMT:Nocturne and I make it to the end without a guide book but I let my friend borrow it and never got it back. and you really need to play persona 4. It have a better story and you get to command your teammate because in persona 3 the computer AI to so dumb something like for example I was fight the boss that repersent the tarot card for hermit and one for my teammate keep using a spell that give me it health back. And the school and friendships system is better and have a real inpact in battle like for example if you get one of your teammate friendship to a high level they will learn new skills like being able to save you from a life-ending attack (turst me you will be thanking the hevan went you get it) or team up with you to do a powerful attack. The only thing I don’t like in the SMT games is that if the leader die it over I can see the point in noctume and the two devil summoner because with the leader died the devil you got would be free to do with they what. (like eat the person who confine them haha.)

You get a lot of resistances to instant kills. Like death, which is probably the first arcana you’ll finish since it’s story based, has like every demon equipped with null/repel dark and then it’s easy to get the light equivalent on them. Not to mention there’s an item called homunculus that eat those spells for you. Aside from a few random bosses placed here and there, P3′s actually pretty easy to manage.

SMT…I have a lot of love for the series, as well as a lot of hate. Nocturne is simply a straight up kick to the pants. I have DDS 1, but not 2, so I haven’t even touched it yet. I’d be like having the first .hack and none of the others…except you can probably actually manage to hit people frequently in DDS. Devil Summoner is…well, you’re right. Ten minutes into it and I was done…and I like action RPG’s too. I can’t even place what was wrong with it. It was just agonizing. On the other hand, the game on the DS, Devil Survivor or whatnot, is actually more like Final Fantasy Tactics meets normal SMT battles…kind of along the lines of ‘Soul Nomad and the World Eaters’. That was also made by Atlas, I believe. I dunno. It’s part of a turn-based Strategy RPG group I like: Disgaea: Hour of Darkness, Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, Stella Deus. Disgaea 2 was okay, 3 was like watching the third Addams Family movie. *shakes head* Disgaea is easily the best of the bunch, Phantom Brave has an annoying ‘confine’ system that is limited on turns the characters are in play, Makai Kingdom is a mix between Disgaea and PB, minus the ‘turns’ part of the confine. Stella Deus is a bit slower, but has an alchemy system where you can combine any item with any other item and get something new. I’d definitely recommend a guide for that. I haven’t played Persona 3 FES yet, even though I have it. I’m just dreading all of the school time and dealing with character interactions. I’ve been told it’s very strict and if you fuck up, you would be better just starting all over again. I have been told that P4 is much much better. Gets rid of a lot of the bitches of 3. Anywho, have a good one!

I liked Persona 3 better than 4 for a few reasons. mostly because when i first start out playing a game i play them on easy to get the hang of it and then do harder levels if i end up liking the game. but in persona 4 even on easy I ended up getting owned by most bosses even at the start of the game <.< buuut P4 did have many things changes from P3 that were really needed. i still liked the third game more. i also recently bought nocturne and am probably going to start it within the week and i hope the game is as tough as you made it seem i do enjoy a challenge.

I really did like Persona 3…. But the way I usually play through it is that when I can, I just blow my way up the tower until I can’t progress anymore, then stop and do the S.Link stuff until the next full moon. Then after the full moon, I repeat my schedule. And with this gameplay, through the dungeon I start to wish for the S.Link portion of the game, then when I get to the S.Link it’s fresh, until I pray for the full moon to come sooner. But I say if you’re at the halfway point, just keep going. Though if you go to ‘The Answer’…… Heh heh. Good luck.

And Persona 4 seems to be more forgiving in combat where with the right conditions, people could actually push you out of the way and take a hit for you.

I’m just going to recommend Tales of Vesperia. Best JRPG on modern consoles. Maybe I’d wait to see if the PS3 port will hit the states.

I’ve never played these games but I really want to. They just look so awesome and people love them. Once I get money P3 will be the next game I buy.

As far as good rpgs go have you ever tried the Tales series? They’re by far my favorite games.

Weird, every single person on my frequently visited forums became huge persona 3 whores when it came out. as they did again when p3 FES came out. So i thought I might as well give it a try. Then 4 came out and everyone said 3 sucked, and I said “fuck it”.

I would give an opinon on 3 FES, but I haven’t finished it yet. I don’t think I’ve played it for like a year cuss I’m stuck at the part where you’re up against the Hell Knights or whatever they’re called. They are SO fucking hard. Every once in a while I pick up the controller thinking “”This time I’m gonna get em, I’m gonna finish this game and be done with it.” I train my ass up, get levels up, get high leveled personas, i go in … get my ass handed to me.

Nocturn is easily my favorite. For reference, Nocturne in actually an upgraded version of the original game, which was never released in america. Alot of the hardest stuff (The hell labyrinth, matador, the four horsemen, etc…) is from that expansion. For the most part, you can beat these battles without guides with persistance and good strategies. A basic requirement, though, is to make sure you diversify the party. Basically, be the exact opposite of a pokemon gym leader, that way your prepared for anything. It’s still hard as hell, but persistance and, most importantly, planning is rewarded. In most RPGs I can go into a boss fight with nothing but a hammer, and all I have to do is hit them enough. I have to think about how I’m going to take a boss down in these games. It IS annoying how often you may lose the first battle, but there is a real sense of accomplishment when I win. In most RPGs, a boss fight offer little threat of actual defeat, it’s just a longer and flashier random battle.

Overall, what I liked best about Nocturne was the minimal story. It was creepy. REALLY creepy. The idea of an empty world, with only four other people left alive, while your surrounded by demons most of which want to kill you. It was atmospheric and disturbing. I don’t know whether it was intentional, but the minimalistic approach does work. The multiple endings are also nice, as it means your choices do kind of matter. When I beat the game and found out that my decision to deny this capability to remake the world actually is what caused it to return to how it was, it felt like I accomplished something. That it wasn’t just the story playing out. Lastly, about Satan and killing God. Satan basically says, “You know, it’s Gods fault that worlds keep dying and being reborn. If you want to end the cycle, help me kill God.” Theres also alot of other notes, background and hints about how God is basically a giant prick who lords his omnipotence over his creation, seeing it as little but his toys.

*phew* rant over. Hope that explained what I liked about Nocturne’s story and gameplay.

Persona 4 is very good. One of the upgrades from P3 is that the schedule is a bit more lenient, allowing you to befriend all you want. It’s still restrictive, but not as hardass as P3. Another upgrade is that the plot starts from day(night) one.

I found that Persona 4 actually improved on a lot of the things that annoyed me in Persona 3 (I’ve yet to finish 3 because I started playing 4 and am having trouble getting back into 3). For instance, your main character is less likely to die if targeted with something that’ll kill him. Having your Social Links with your teammates at higher levels unlocks new things they might do, and one is a chance to take a fatal blow for you. Not guaranteed to work, but it’s saved my ass numerous times. Additionally, rather than having to screw around with AI settings all the time you can set it so you actually choose what they do, which is much, much, much better, and can allow you to save a lot of SP that’d get wasted if you weren’t controlling them. Also, the tedium of the tower climbing in P3 is somewhat avoided in P4 by the fact there are multiple, much smaller dungeons, which each have their own themes. Monsters drop money regularly rather than you having to choose a card (Though the cards have changed to only personas, blank cards, and cards that take away all the XP and money you won in that fight). There seems to be more of a story going on with it too. And one of my favorite changes made: Death is no longer popping up in the middle of the damn dungeons, stalking you. So many times that damn thing showed up when I was a hair’s breadth from safety, yet forty plus levels too low to have any chance of defeating it. Got me immensely frustrated, and thrown into a panic every time he’d show up.

If your Xbox360 is fixed yet there is one really good RPG I can recommend. Lost Odyssey. It’s made by the creater of Final Fantasy, very long (Four disks), really beautiful graphics (Somewhat Long longing times sometimes and before battle though), very likeable characters with good character development, strong story and something I think you will enjoy even if you rent it for a week. You wont get through the entire game in that time, but atleast it will give you an idea of it

I recommend the Disgaea series, or at the very least, the original version on PS2. I love it.

oh god play shin megami tensei 1 and 2 on the snes. there are great english translation patches available. really classic games with beautiful art and music, and rewarding of good strategy. you can’t burn yourself out on them too much though, pace yourself and they’re pretty fun.

Shin Megami Series List I made years and years ago. They have added so many since, including a FREE MMO.

Famicon (Nes)
Gameboy
Gameboy Advanced
Gameboy Color
Gamegear
Mega CD
MSX
PC
PC88
PC Engine CD
PSP
PSX
PS2
Saturn
Super Famicon (Snes)
Virtual Boy
Wonderswan

plus the issue that it has numerous names depending on chapters
Another Bible
Demi Kids
Devil Children (ie ‘Pokemon in Hell’)
Devil Summoner
Digital Devil Saga
Giten Megami Tensei
Jack Bros.
Last Bible
Majin Tensei
Megami Tensai
Persona
Revelations: Demon Slayers
Ronde
Shin Megami Tensai
Shin Megami Tensai: IMAGINE (a MMORPG)

Also a novel
‘Shin Megami Tensai’

Anime
‘Devil Children’ (100 Episodes)
‘Digital Devil Saga: Megami Tensei’ OVA
‘Shin Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushiroku / Tokyo Revelation’ OVA

I´ve played som of the games in the series and I have to say that they really are HARD. Nocturne was no pushover. My problem here is with your video. You do not, I repeat DO NOT, spoil the ending for two games like that. Very uncool and I can´t for the life of me understand why you would do that.

Persona 3 actually fixes the whole instant death BS with Personas capable of reducing your chance of being hit, blocking that particular spell, or even reflecting back at the monsters. It also will give you Humunculi, which act as second chances, if you get hit with either one of those spells.
That being said, it IS rather aggravating when Mudo and Hama get introduced, since you don’t expect the spells, and they really are just that cheap. Granted, once you get introduced there is a way to reduce or avoid the spells entirely, but it is entirely bull shit the first time you’re doing so well, and then that fucktard hand gets to go first, and wipes you with a 25% chance instant death spell.

Persona 3 and 4 form very different contrasts to one another, though.
P3 is all about the over-arching story line, with one of the most absolutely epic boss fights (It has 13 forms, 12 of which are just the “warm up phase” before the 13th one, where it gets INSANELY difficult), but P4 is more about the characters than anything else. P3 also has this one chance during the story line which determines good or bad ending. P4 has about three spots in which that happens, and you’re given no reason to actually think of the response you have to give in order to get the good ending.
However P4 refines the battle system, giving you the ability to defend, and making it so that taking a hit from one of your weaknesses doesn’t keep you in a permanent stun-lock. It also introduces your friends performing different actions, such as helping you recover from status, picking you back up, or even sacrificing themselves for you.
P4 has better combat, but P3 has a better over-all story, if you ask me.

However, if you talk to most SMT nerds, they’ll shun you for enjoying the Persona series, since it’s the “Casual Game Series” of them all, and well how dare you.

Anyway, I implore you, once you beat P3, to make a video about it. I’d like to know what you think about the final boss, since first-time player’s reactions are always a joy to read, and it really is just a gauntlet in and of itself.

Played SMT: Nocturne (Lucifer’s Call here in Euroland), and it wasn’t before I played it through a second time (for some sadistic reason) that I really enjoyed it.

All the things you mention and criticize the game for are fair calls, definitely a lot of frustrating aspects that one has to get past before being able to really enjoy it; dungeon crawling, random encounters, turn-based fights, names spells etc. Once you get past that though (if you have the patience), and start messing around with fusing your own demons, transferring skills and creating a team, that’s when the game starts shining.

Not to mention the darker, emoish style which I will take any day now after getting fed up with your regular JRPG green/blue/red haired crew of 14 year old happy-yatta-go-lucky-bastard-children.

Nocturne -> favorite RPG on the PS2.

Three words: Play Persona 4. It’s such a vast improvement on Persona 3. Granted, it’s a little more ‘kiddy’ than the dark, gritty, suicide-ridden Persona 3, but the story kicks off a lot quicker, manages to actually be an engaging mystery with an ending you didn’t see coming in the first five minutes, and at least tries to alleviate the tedium of not killing shit by attempting to be funny (your mileage may vary here, of course.)

Added bonus? You don’t climb a tower.

I personally played none of the newer games, but rather a translated version of the old SNES Shin Megami Tensei.

First of, the story is extremly deep. Its kinda like every other major SMT game, in a sense that you’re a normal guy at the beginning of the game, then see how the world ends around you, then live and fight in the post-apocalyptic world and in the end are a demigod that either kills the bad guys, the ”good” guys or just fuck up everyone.

And thats what I liked the most. The game basically asks you: In what kinda world do you wanna live? A demon ruled wasteland where one has total freedome but the strong ones rule the weak ones and death is around every corner? Or a divine kingdom ruled by the angels and god I guess, that is safe and stable, but a total dictatorship, that allows only the pure and faithful life in there while everyone else dies?

Or what I choosed, the path right through the middle, that ends in a kinda democratic afterworld where one can choose to do what he wants but is restricted by a laws so that he just doesn’t fucks everyone over as he likes. Sounds good, but the catch is that to do this, you have to fight BOTH the angels and demons as well as their henchmen and helpers, as well as two of your companions that choosed their side early on and don’t like you being all neutral now. So its harder to do and you have to kill your buddies and do some pretty heavy choices along the way, but in the end ya have a kinda utopian world.

Also, the gameplay was pretty awesome with usage of kinda 3D enviroments and nice graphics and music for that time, as well as the above mentioned gameplay factor that deepens the game like almost nothing else on the SNES.

If you are looking for a different type of RPG to try I would say give Tales of Vespiria a try on the 360. It might not be up your ally as it isn’t turn based but the combat is a lot of fun. It is a hybrid of a RPG and a 2D fighting game…a really simple 2D fighter. You only control one person in battle and the computer controls everyone else and they don’t screw you over and do the job. The game actually has difficulty settings so that you can make the game easier or harder at any given time which is nice if you really don’t feel like leveling up just to beat that one boss. Just flip to easy, beat him and change it back and level up at your leisure…also no random battles. I personally always hated random battles.

The story is pretty cliche and so are the characters but it still manages to remain engaging and fun the whole way through. The story and characters are very cliche anime-ish. The story scenes are not that long and for more character development they have short skits that you can activate instead of being forced to sit through everything in cutscene form.

I say give it a rent. It isn’t up your ally being that it isn’t turn based but it is a really good JRPG and is a lot of fun even if you are not into real time combat stuff. The whole Tales of RPG series is the only one that I know of where 20,000+ HP is standard and normal for regular enemies near the end of the game. With Shin Megami Tensei it is awesome to summon Satan and with Tales of I feel bad ass taking down tons of enemies that have a shit ton of HP like it is nothing. 5 enemies that have 15 times my HP? BRING IT!

Later on, there is a reason for the Protagonist’s death to mean instant game over. Just some more incentive for you to keep playing.

If you want a Persona with a story, you could check out Persona2 Innocent Sin, although playing it would require an emulator or a hacked PSP. It has a truly absurd, yet really entertaining story. You ned to find either a Japanese ISO and the English patch or a pre-patched download. Totally worth it though.

those spells on that game remind me of Phantasy Star. They did the same crap. It was horrible, because I had to use each spell or tech to figure out what it did & half of them didn’t do crap…

Persona 4 lets you hit the Square button at pretty much anytime to see spell/item/skill descriptions. That’s why I’d say it’s the best SMT game to get started in the series with.

Persona 4 and Devil Summoner 2 are improvements over Persona 3 and Devil Summoner respectively, at least gameplay-wise. You should enjoy 4 more because both the story and save points are more spread out. It’s also worth looking into Persona 2 Innocent Sin and Eternal Punishment, BECAUSE THERE’S NOTHING MORE AWESOME THAN FIGHTING HITLER IN TURN-BASED JRPG COMBAT. NO, THAT WASN’T A TYPO. They’re my two favorite SMT games.

I played Persona 3: FES for a bit, but I was bored with it pretty quickly. I didn’t enjoy the grind, the limited social interactions, or the lacking story. My sister really got into it, though, which allowed me to see the game through to the end. The ending was incredibly hilarious. Unfortunately, the humor was unintentional. I got hyped on Persona 4 quite a bit, which caused me to buy it when it was released, despite my dissatisfaction with Persona 3. Persona 4 was definitely an improvement from Persona 3: FES, now that all characters are under the player’s control, but I would say that the series still has a long way to go to appeal to me, and I’m someone who is really into Japanese culture. I was continually annoyed by the repetitive text that was used to describe game events, especially with each of the social links. It’s incredibly bothersome to be forced to scroll through the same text each time you accept quests from the fox at the shrine, for example. I’ve already completed a number of these quests, so I don’t need to be continually reminded. Then there are the times that the game feels the need to describe to you in text what’s clearly visible on the screen already. The times when you entering the school grounds and the game tells you that you overheard a conversation annoyed me, as well as the point early in Persona 4 where you are told that the main character “chose not to do” something. Nothing was chosen; this was simply stated to move the story forward and tell the player, in an ambiguous and unsophisticated manner, what they should be doing next. My main complaints about Persona 3 and Persona 4 may appear to be unfair critiques, but these things continually come up over the course of both games and can ruin the experience for a certain type of player.

Wait, what game did you say has the hidden hour called “The Dark Hour” between midnight and 1:00? That sounds a lot like this trilogy of novels called The Midnighters by Scott Westerfeild.

Wait, what game did you say has the hidden hour called “The Dark Hour” between midnight and 1:00? That sounds a lot like this trilogy of novels called The Midnighters by Scott Westerfeild.

Persona 4 is INFINITELY better and more enjoyable than Persona 3.

Pros:
1. You can actually control other character in battle than just the main character this time (though you can only change the main characters Persona, still)
2. The story presents itself fairly early and the characters/enemies are a lot more interesting.
3. The friend system has been improved.
4. You no longer shoot yourself in the face to summon personas (what was up with that shit?)

Cons:
1. The whole “if your main character dies, you LOSE!” thing is still there.
2. If you want to improve social stats, you still usually need a guide to tell you how to get all the bonuses.
3. Some of the music is definitely a step down from Persona 3′s soundtrack.

You might enjoy the last battle in Persona 3.

I only made it to HangedMan and I couldn’t beat and it turns out…I’m 13 levels under it and nothing but level 1 spells. Don’t know how I managed to get that far.

Persona 4 is a cool game. Give it a try.

The build-up for the ending makes the ending which in turn makes Persona 3, you should totally play it through to the end and check it out.

Honestly, I prefered Persona 3 over any of the other Shin Megami Tensei games, Persona 4 coming second.
Persona 4 did improve over the original gameplay wise and I have to give it a plus for having a story that’s actually recognizable from the start (not to mention that the story is really original and VERY different from what you usually see in a Shin Megami Tensei game) that actually pulls you along from the start and not progressivley like in Persona 3.

All those gameplay tweeks, like characters pushing you aside when you’re about to take a mortal blow, or team attacks, can be found in the PSP port of the Persona 3, too (check the link bellow).

Again, I strongly suggest you play it all the way to the end, mind blowing stuff.

Keep it up, I love your stuff, man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i85Itjr_nc

I feel Nocture was the best out of the SMT series. I started Nocturne on Hard first, and enjoyed it immensely. I felt that the difficultly complimented the storyline very well, and generally fit the gameplay well. Yes, the story is almost none existent in it, but the atmosphere of the game completely makes up for it. You are truly alone, it’s just you and the demons in a post-apocalyptic world. The other characters you meet eventually go insane with power or die (if you decide to kill your friends, give up your humanity and become an actual demon) so you’re really isolated throughout the game. Another plus for the game is your party consists of demons, not other human characters. I felt like I had more of a connection with the demons and their personalities rather than “HI I’M THE LOVE INTEREST, I’LL JOIN YOUR PARTY NOW!”. The Persona games seem to force human interaction (S-Links, automatically in your party, FRIENDSHIP IS THE BEST) and perhaps that’s why I feel the spin-offs are weakest in the series. However, the newest SMT, Strange Journey, seems to be going way back to the SNES days of first person 2D sprites, so hopefully it might retain the same difficulty of Nocturne and general feel.

If you say Persona is a “TRUE SMT GAME”
you are dirt on the SMT community’s shoe, persona series is a weak spinoff. Persona 4 was the weakest of them all and overall sucked. SMT is supposed to be dark and depressing not happy sunshine joy like P4 is. Not even the True ending route is dark and depressing

Nocturne.Is a True SMT game and Atlus should make more games like it… nuff said. I’m prepared to get swarmed by people who only played p3 or p4.

Well, devil summoner 1 and 2 were pretty damn good too…just remembered.

Just to clear up the names “Agni”, “Varuna” etc. for you – they’re actually gods from Hindu mythology. Thought you might be interested in that. Of course, it still amounts to learning a new language for anyone not familiar with the Vedas or other Hindu texts… :)

I don’t know whether somebody has already posted this, but I wasn’t going to sift through 260 comments to check… :-/

Namedown I agree with you ,but you know for a change is good to se a happy ending.Persona 4 is the most satisfing rpg I played on the last 6 years,most of it because the ending because the true ending is really rewarding.you fight from the start to help your friends and family and when you succed is great.that said yes nocturne IS the SMT experience and for me the best of the series.
I never undestand devil summoner at all.

Hey spoony, long time listener, first time commenter,
Two things:
First: Persona 4 is in my opinion the best Shin Megami Tensei game released in the united states (and yes I’ve played all the others), especially to terms of compelling storyline (with a great small-town, murder-mystery vibe), likeable characters (who by the end of the game will feel like people you actually care about), and solid game mechanics.
Second: If you want to know more about the Shin Megami Series, you should visit this site http://hg101.kontek.net/megaten/megaten.htm

Hay Spoony love your reviews sense your asking about Shin Megami Tensei I started this year a friend turned me on to the series early this year by showing me Persona 3 and Devil Summoner because I hate PS2 for its load times I eventually bought Devil Servivor which is Shin Megami Tensei turn based stratigy. The secret is you can make Demons with no weaknesses for example Tlulac (might be misspelled) has will learn an ability called anti-fire after he learns this ability merge him with another Demon to make Yuki (who is weak against fire) and you can transfer Tlulacs Anti-fire to Yuki and make her strong against fire but my friend also told me that in all versions of Shin Megami Tensei from before Devil Servivor tranfer skills randomly. Thats Insane you may have to merge a Yuki from Tlulac one-hundred times or more to get one Yuki strong against fire its so insane that…

>durrhurr rpg’s must haz turnbased combat to be gud

SMT have history almost as long as Final Fantasy does, except FF got more famous when it comes to the western markets.

Persona 3 are most likely my favorite (maybe I am emo) even though the story are kinda predictable. The Japanese are porting Persona 3 to psp this November. The battle system are changed to Persona 4 battle system and along with some new feature (a new story line of what happen if male character is a female and also a new story paths for male main character, but they did downgrade something in order to fit into the psp such as graphics, and they also took off the world map and turn it into a point and click).

I never have play Digital Devil Saga, but they actually made a second one and my friend told me is not bad at all (Just gameplay)

If you like tactic rpg like you might want to take a look at SMT: Devil Suvivior for DS I only played a few chapters but It is a Tactic base game (when it comes to fighting it went back to orginial first person command and fight mode) I also remember someone said that the game have many endings base on which teamate die in the game

Hey, Noah, longtime fan, keep up the funny work :-)

About the Shin Megami Tensei series, I agree with a lot of the points you have, but I’m also a VERY hardcore fan of the series, I love it to death, and here’s my reasons. Maybe some of them you actually have and didn’t realize:

-The fact that there’s so MANY mythologies involved. I’m a huge mythology buff, and one of the things I always look forward to in every SMT game is seeing which new mythological creatures are added.

-The art is GORGEOUS. The monsters all look incredible(and quite faithful to the legends, I might add), and the characters are interesting without looking like rejects from a gay parade *cough*Tetsuya Nomura!*cough*

-The soundtrack is truly unique. A mix between heavy metal riffing’ electronica and(in the Persona series’ case) oriental hip-hop. No other RPG series is like it.

-It’s URBAN FANTASY. With the exception of a few games(Digital Devil Saga and the Devil Summoner series), the games are set in present-day. Your characters are usually typical high school kids in VERY atypical situations. Has that sort of Buffy/Harry Potter vibe, where your characters are part of two worlds and must keep the Muggles unaware of the darkness underneath.

-The characters are not emoish jerks. Yes, some of the playable characters ARE jerks, but maybe at first. Character development not only can explain many of the reasons characters are like that, they also go through character development that makes them mature and develop. Persona 4 specifically is VERY good at this(and IMHO, as awesome as Persona 3 was, Persona 4 completely blows it out of the water). You do have a point that the story can drag sometimes in these games, but the series actually focuses HEAVILY on character development an the interaction between characters, especially the Persona games. Unlike, say, the Final Fantasy series, where many characters are basically flat characters who you’d use just because of how good they are in combat, the SMT games actually make you care for your characters, and more often than not, you’ll be leveling them as evenly as possible so none of them falls behind.

-You said that the game can be unfair about the instant kill spells and elemental weaknesses and whatnot, but the fact is that you can use that to your advantage as well. An instant kill spell in the Final Fantasy series is USELESS to you. An instant kill spell in the SMT series can win you battles when you most need it.

-The game makes you strategize(is that a word?). Every time you enter a new area, the game rewards you for taking your time to study what enemies are around, what their strengths and weaknesses are. Many of the instant kill assholes can be dealt with just by saving just before the area starts, identifying what enemies have the spells and planning accordingly. This is also one of the strengths of the game: unless you’re backtracking WAY back, you must be alert in every battle. In Final Fantasy, there comes a moment when you can just hit the attack button over and over without even looking at the screen. In SMT, if you do that, when you look back at the screen, it’ll be the Game Over screen.

-The Demon Fusion dynamic is one of the absolute best playing systems ever. Not only does the game force you to keep up and not be lazy in developing your demons, it rewards you greatly for being persistent in developing your demons and experimenting to get the best ones you can. When you have the chance to do triple fusions(or higher, in Persona 4 you can fuse up to SIX!), sometimes you might end up with a demon WAY beyond what should be available at that point in the game.

-It has a totally different flavor to every other RPG series. Pretty much every Japanese RPG is stuck in the medieval-like fantasy world template. SMT has more of a modern occultist feel, and sometimes(like SMT2 and Digital Devil Saga) a more cyberpunk story. In factm, the original SMT games for the SNES, SMT1 and 2, had the gimmick that you summoned demons by using a wrist computer with an actual computer program doing the summoning. Think about that: using complex mathematical formulas calculated by a computer to perform summoning rites. That is pretty fucking awesome.

-The games are FUCKING TOUGH. They may become frustrating, maybe even downright unfair sometimes, but I’d rather earn my ending than just being able to grind my way into godhood and being able to shake off anything the final boss throws at me without breaking a sweat. You say that you need a guide to be able to deal with the shit these games throw at you, and with some of them you might be right(okay, all of them), but even WITH a guide, you need a good sense of strategy and maybe even some pure dumb luck. It’s an unpredictable series.

Wow, went on a serious ramble here, sorry about taht. But needless to say, my world friggin’ STOPS every time an SMT game comes out. It’s my definite favorite RPG series by far.

I’m not one of the huge Shin Megami fans but I really dig both persona 3 and persona 4. It does take quite a bit of time to get things rolling in 3 but I think the story payoff by the end is worth it and the high end persona can be a lot of fun to use.
Even if you don’t end up finishing 3 you should give 4 a try. I really enjoyed playing through both games but if I had played 4 first I’m not sure I would have been able to get myself to play all they way through 3 since everything just works so much better. I will give you a quick warning though; 4 starts off with probably a solid two hours of story and character set up before you really get into the meat of the game. Sort of the feast for persona 3′s famine. It’s good story, just be ready for that when you sit down.

I completely agree with you but I think that’s why I love that series. It’s so different and dark but amazingly good. Noctura is hard and does feel dead in terms of the world especially after you play Persona 3 and 4. But I still loved that game. After all my games and my PS2 was stolen a few years ago I paid 80 bucks for a new copy and I don’t regret it. The funny thing about Noctura is that the official guide is 500 pages long! Of course you can just look online now sense it’s so old. But i’m glad to see the spoony one give a “shout out” to this underrated yet amazingly good series. Oh and about Star Ocean: I played the hell out of the first when it came out one the PSP and I seriously have 2 maybe 3 hours left of that game but I cannot bring myself to finish it. After spending 30 or so hour on a game I should want to beat it but I just can’t. It is repetitive and the battle system just isn’t that fun after about 3 hours. The only thing I liked was how you could beef up your characters for situations in and outside of battles (cooking, crafting, smithing, ect.) but I finally learned that it does help too much. Whatever. Great vlog

You kind of already answered your own question, but to reiterate: The SMT games are cool because YOU CAN SUMMON THE GODDAMN DEVIL TO KILL THINGS FOR YOU. And angels, and lesser demons, and random deities and legendary folk heroes picked here and there from every religion and mythological set under the sun. That’s why I dig the games, at least. It’s not so much about the story or the difficulty or the presentation (though I will admit to really liking a lot of the art from the main character designer behind the series). For me, it’s all about the game’s interpretations for well-known (and not-so-well-known, as in the case of personas like Cu Chullain and Alilat) religious and mythological figures and making them do my bidding. I’ve always been fascinated by modern and ancient religious mythology, and having the ability to summon all these figures and make them kill shit for me is just too good to pass up.

The SMT series definitely has a niche appeal and audience, yes, but there is a lot to like about the series. I like (some of) the music, the modern & urban settings, the unique artwork. For better or worse, it provides a good (even strategic) challenge to the average JRPG fan and is rooted in a lot of mythology and certainly has unique storylines that you just won’t see in games like Final Fantasy, Dragonquest, or even Fallout and Oblivion. Despite some of the gameplay faults or weird story developments, I think they are a breath of fresh air in a genre that seems to be getting more tired and stale with every passing year. Persona 3 has this whole “super secret school club” story that just gets more dark and crazy, whereas Persona 4 has a “supernatural murder mystery” storyline with characters and situations that most people can actually relate to in the modern world.

The Persona series in particular is, in my opinion, the most enjoyable, especially 4. It does begin with essentially a 3-4 hour cutscene (break out the popcorn), but everything else after that is pretty damn fun and more accessible than other games in the series. Likewise, Devil Summoner 2 is a big improvement over the first, but even then the gameplay of that series is still not for everyone and should definitely be rented or borrowed first before purchasing just to make sure it’s your kind of game.

Just make sure you always purchase the “Go back to the beginning of the dungeon” items before ever venturing out so that inconvenient deaths or losses don’t happen so often.

Everybody else have pretty much said almost all about the Persona 3FES and Persona 4 games but this is my take.

First, I did enjoy P3FES. It was new for me, interesting battle, good story (Though it’s slow in the start), interesting characters (Junpei you silly bastard) and because I also like dating sim, I liked the whole social link idea. I thought it was a good balance betwin the fights and the normal life you play in the game.
Though it did have some problems, pretty much everything else have said in the comments and what you also said Spoony.

But Persona 4, oh boy, what a improvement. Smaller dungeons, spread out save points, direct control of your characters, and a interesting story from the start. And again, I like the social links and normal life play in it.

Not so much more to say now. So in the end, I think you will enjoy Persona 4 more Spoony.

I like Shin Megami Tensei the MMO since i never played the other games I like the post apocalyptic world setting with technology and demon summons

Ugh, I’m trying to beat FES right now as we speak. It’s great if you’ve played the original P3 & also a good version since you practically get Aigis’ Part (“The Answer”) for free/a really low price (I paid 40Dollars for the original P3 before anybody told me there’d be a refined version only half a year later for half the price :P).
Persona 4 is in my opinion a far better game, especially for beginners. The SMT Series has always been famous for it’s severe difficulty level. P4 is far easier than for example P3 & much easier to get into. The big discussion which game is better is quite unnecessary since both games are quite different in feel and atmosphere. What Spoony said, about P3 being an emo wet dream because you can kill yourself over and over again without actually dying (which I found a good joke :P) is a huge argument to the story. P4 ends on a much happier note than P3 (who knows the ending also knows what I mean) despite being, in my opinion, a lot more morbid than P3. P4 also gives you much more options in your daily life. Wheras you’ve had to sit at home or go to Tartarus to pass your time (once you’ve foolishly mastered all your personal attributes e.g Charm and Intelligence), P4 gives you more possibilites: a part time job, fishing at night, reading a book and so on and so on. The battle system has also been positively refined (being able to control your party is a huge improvement), plus you can now view your attacks, which basically means that you don’t have to go online to know what attacks you’re using. By pressing the triangle-buttom you can now see the effects, which has been a big help for me since I’ve always had problems with that when I fused Personas early on and had to know all attacks for I would’ve changed valuable attacks if I hadn’t. The Compendium has also expanded with more than 50 additions to the previous one. The social part of the game has not changed much exept for a couple of facts:
- You can join more clubs.
- You can have more than one girlfriend at once *wink*
- More options in conversations.
- If you max your relationship with one of your team members, his or her Persona evolves into a stronger version.
- By maxing the relationship with one of your team members, you unlock certain ways they act during a fight.
My last point is especially important and also one of my favourite aspects of the game. It is true that sometimes a single attack from an insignificant monster that’s usually much weaker than you can kill you instantly and rid you of one hour or more of playtime. Not anymore^^
The new feature in Persona 4 is that as your relationship with your group members reaches the next level, they can do certain things for you in battle, depending on your level with them.
They can do follow-up attacks (if they’ve knocked an enemy down in battle, they often attack a second time), cure severe ailments (instead of a follow-up, they can use their extra term to cure ailments through a slap in the face, e.g Confusion), knock you out of the way (this is the most important one: if an enemy tries to kill you with an attack that’ll surely hit home and kill your main character instantly, one of your group members can push you out of the way and take the damage instead. But this only works if your Characters aren’t confused or the enemy attacks the whole party) and endure a mortal blow (this is always helpful; if a character is hit badly and should’ve usually died, it can regenerate 1 HP and thus survive the attack) and more. These actions are really helpful and saved me a whole lot of times *wink*
I’m sure you’ll adore Persona 4, Spoony~! It’s truly an amazing game.

I’ve tried to play several SMT-Games in the last year, but sadly (?) the Persona-Series is the only one that really has caught my positive attention. I’m not the best of gamers and since SMT is one of the fucking hardest RPG-Series up until now, it is hard for me to proceed in the games. Digital Devil Saga was the Series I started after Persona, and sadly, I couldn’t even the first part because the Dungeon Crawling is just too much. Your point, Spoony, that practically every SMT Game has the sole purpose of finding a high tower and climbing it isn’t necesarily wrong and neither is it necesarily right. Since the whole SMT Series is based on Dungeon Crawling, which is the pure definition of finding something huge and fighting your way through it, it’s pretty much clear that you will not encounter your enemies on the ‘outside’. Reasons for that are also clear, since 50% of the game is you being an ordinary student, in the case of Persona. Most of times the scenery frequently changes (like in DDS, P4 and Nocturne), which means you never have to fight across the same dungeon. In Persona 3, you have to fight in Tartarus all the time but the scenery changes about all eleven floors and though crossing the same eleven floors over and over again may seem repetetive, it’s fine, at least for me. To be honest, I haven’t finished any SMT Game, except for P4 yet (because of the lenght and difficulty), so I can’t argue with the endings. I basically know all endings to most games, but the middle and near end is still a mystery to me *laughs*
What draws me most to this Series is for one the unique and wonderful soundtrack. Most of times, I mute my TV when I play games and listen to my iPod instead, but I wasn’t able to mute the TV throughout the whole Series. No matter which one you play, the music is always great (Persona’s soundtrack being the best in my opinion). It gives the game scenes a great atmosphere and authentic feel, sometimes as a soft background melody, following you in school, sometimes a darker, creepier melody chasing you through the individual levels.
I especially love the Opening Themes, Persona 3′s “Bury my Dread” being the favourite, though opinions vary on that behalf. The plot lines and twists of SMT are also one of the best things in the Series. It’s always new and surprising, even if it’s only about the tiny character-sub plots you have to go through to max a relationship with your friends at school. You can’t see through the story from the very beginning or even the middle because something always happenes that you could not forsee. With many Final Fantasy Moments, that were even to the most hardcore of fangirls and boys so stupid and forseeable, it’s greatly refreshing to find an RPG-Series you’ll be surprised about every other minute. I’m amazed by how much heart, love and thought has been given to create the Games and I’m happy to play them^^

Now that I’ve made my point clear, great Review Spoony! You’re amazing ;D
Much Love from Mad Girl <3

Persona 4 has an actual story from the very beginning.

So many posts, you won’t see it, but I found P4 MUCH better then P3.. although there is still a lot of juggling friends etc… but the good thing about P4 is that you can actually level up constantly in one night once you get to a certain point in the game.. like, when I play P4, I typically beat the first level in 1 day of gametime, to give myself plenty of time to level my social links.

P3 doesn’t allow any real grinding, with the fatigue mechanic screwing you all the time.

Oh, it also does have Mudo Instant Deathfuckups, and yes, having your main character die means that your game ends, but you also can control all of your characters, rather then just the main character.

FFX also had a disappointing *final* boss (you can’t even die, if he hits you with ultima and kills your party your just resurrected), most people consider the boss before him to be the true final boss. Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando also has a disappointing final boss, 10 shots from the RYNO 2 and he’s dead.

I want to try out Persona 3, but I don’t get one thing.
Does FES include also the original persona 3 or you need both games?

Spoony while I agree that Starocean for PS2 was not good and neither will the one for PS3 be good but the ones for SNES and PlayStation were very intertaining as well as the stories were intersting. I do agree with you that the new ones suck.

Ignore when people say that the length of a game’s title is not important, that a title should just convey what the game is about. They’re just jealous theirs isn’t as long.
- Atlus, in the newsletter email announcing the localization of Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abbadon

Anyways, Soulless Army is a fun, but flawed game, but I’d recommend it because it’s actually much, much easier than both DDS and Nocturne. And you want a completed save file for Abbadon, which is also a much better game.

It doesn’t have much in the way of twitch reflexes either. Only a few fights.

Also, you beat an SMT game without a guide by buying a notebook and keeping track of every enemies weakness and strength in it.

And you beat Nocturne by breaking the shit out of the game with the extra stuff and laughing at the extra boss fights because of it.

Also, DDS made up for being generally easier by having much, much harder extra boss fights.

Fuck the Demi-fiend.

I love you even more for this video Spoony.

About the DDS games: One of my favorite games ever is DDS 2 and if you haven’t played any SMT games do it like right now. Go on Amazon or eBay and buy an SMT game. The DDS story (btw: DDS was actually one game but it was too big for one disc so they had to make a sequel) is just massive and incredibly addicting. It requires a lot of strategy to beat (the boss before you kill God is actually harder than God) but if you beat it you don’t care about the ending. You are just so hyped that you killed God that you forget about it.

Something about Nocturne (or Lucifer’s Call. I live in Europe and it’s called that way here): Spoony doesn’t make jokes. If you can beat this games end boss (and I don’t mean Kagutsuchi, I think it was, I mean Lucifer) without a strategy guide you are the man. I have Nocturne since 2006 and I still haven’t beaten this guy (same goes for the Demi-Fiend in DDS).

About the Persona games: You should at least play Persona 3. Persona 4 isn’t that good compared to 3 since the combat has some major flaws (no, not the “if your main character dies you are fucked” thing) but the story is very interesting. I don’t want to spoil anything though.

What keeps me playing? The story. Since Nocturne I have only played the SMT games for the story (except for Devil Summoner, because I don’t like RTS mixed with a JRPG) and since then I’ve always got what I wanted. An addictive story with great gameplay and good music.

And don’t be sad, I think almost everybody died at the Matador. And in Persona 3 you can summon the Satan and Lucifer and if you have them both you are almost unstoppable. Instantkill for everyone except one boss and always Full HP and SP.

I really have to disagree with those on here that say Persona 4 is better then Persona 3 or even the best game in the series. Sure Person 4 had potential, however ultimately it’s a pretty mediocre game and I’ll explain why I think that. Warning, spoilers below since I’m going into plot and characters more then the gameplay:

1.Character development. The character development in Persona 4 has one arch for most of the characters. Meaning they develop once and that’s it. Oh sure, the social links with your party members develop them more, but see the social links aren’t cannon for the most part i.e aren’t part of the actual story. Nothing wrong with adding more character development but I should be able to see ample in the story. Persona 3 had multiple archs of development for most of your party, Persona 4 is the exact opposite. Teddie is the only one who develops any further.

2.Naoto. For the first half of the game, absolutely no progress is made in the mystery. You save these people, they join your party, and offer no information. Then Naoto comes along and suddenly she doesn’t have enough information. Without Naoto, your party would be stuck at square one until the world went away. Her and her alone allows you to get anywhere. This is extremely poor writing when only one character, who worse isn’t even the main character, has to pull the weight of the dumbass party.

3.Too many non plot related events. I can think of few if any events in Persona 3 that didn’t impact the plot in some way or lead into another plot development. Here we have so many freaking events that don’t contribute a single thing to the plot, just the characters getting into hijinx. It’s like we’re supposed to forget about the serial killer or the apocalypse. It get’s frustrating, especially when you could be using this time to grind(especially when griding usually takes so much longer then in Persona 3)

4.The killer. The first suspect we get, the most interesting one with the purple hair, nope, just a copycat. Then we find out it’s some truck driver but wait, no turns out his attempted “murders” were saving people from the real killer, Adachi, who was behind the first two murders. That’s right, this serial killer who has been built up, who we are led to believe needs a serious ass kicking for putting our heroes through this, had NOTHING to do with ANY of your rescue missions and that the kidnappings were all just part of some big misunderstanding. It’s like some morbid 80′s cartoon twist. Words can not express what a total dissapointment this is.

5.They had the guall to blantantly rip off precise story elements from Persona 3, even mirroring the Nyx arch from 3 very closely. This is the epitomy of creative bankruptcy. and it really does come off as lame. None of the emotion or dread from P3′s Nyx arch carry over, and it feels so damn contrieved.

6.Persona 4 has what I like to call PseudoFeminism. You’ve all seen it even if you don’t know what I’m talking about, where the males are presented as total perverts and stupid and need to be taught a lesson from the females. Case in point, the camping trip. To make up for their terrible dinner, Yosuke has the girls come out in new, revealing swimsuits. Honestly they aren’t even that bad, but they push him in any way. Now I could justify that, however they push main character into the freezing water too, even though he didn’t have a thing to do with what Yosuke did. Then Kanji is pushed in for having a nosebleed, an anime way to express one is turned on. Oh come on, now being turned on is a crime?

Or how about the fashion show? Yosuke does one thing wrong and so the entire male cast is forced to dress up like females and degrade themselves. Or how about the spa? It’s the boys turn to use the Spa, as per the rules, they come out for their turn, and then are pelted with baskets for daring to think the girls would be out when their turn is over. It’s supposed to come off as funny, but it just makes the girls look like total asshats.

Hmm…Nocturne without a strategy guide? I ACCEPT THE CHALLENGE! *Looks up Nocturne prices on internet*

Also, it’s worth noting that Devil Survivor for the DS is in fact harder than Nocturne.

dude i played 100 hours of persona 3
i loved the characters, as in i actually cared about them. usually for others i f a party member dies in the story, i only worry about the game diffuclty. i actually cared when Shinji died. and when Chidori died. also, the main character gets to be what you want him to be, so its kinda cool.
also, the personas (not demons) have historic al backgrounds, and i like that in a game.
oh, one more thing, after the ending of persona 3, i felt depressed for a week. no joke

How about playing a GOOD Xbox 360 JRPG like Tales of Vesperia?

There are two other SMT games that you can look into. One is Devil Survivor for the DS, which is an Strategy RPG with turn-based combat and the demon fusion system which is much more easier to use compared to Person 3. The other is the Persona remake for the PSP. Don’t know too much about that one, though.

Beside the general awesomeness of the Persona 3, here is my idea, why it gotten so popular:
In today’s world, a lot of people prefer isolation, or contact through internet rather than normal say – talking to another persons, so I think that some people find certain surrrogate of friendship and socializing by playing it, namely the part where you have to go out with your friends and do stuff, especially that it’s good for you and makes your personas strogner. Also, it has anime-style cinematics, which (for me at least) is a big plus, and it’s just about for everyone (on easy mode you really have to work hard to get yourself killed, and you don’t even need a strategy guide, except for maybe some incredibly complicated personas, like hexagonal fusions and stuff).
And call me a weirdo, but for some reason puting a gun to your head to call forth a powerful faucet of your personality, your demon, looks just incredibly, impossibly bad-ass.
ANYWAY. The story will start getting pretty epic now that it started spinning off, and by the end it’s gonna be prolly more epic than teaming up with Satan and going up against God. At least for me it was.
About Persona 4: it is much improved in many aspects, but on the other hand the story is not even 10% as epic as in previous part. Also, the main character’s haircut sucks, and the bad-ass shooting-your-head summoning is gone, replaced by more family friendly crushing tarot’s cards in your hand. The elemental system is simplified, and it’s not a blunt going up the tower anymore – you have quite a few different dungeons to explore. BUT if you thought Aigis voice and overall personality was annoying (provided you’ve gotten to her), wait ’till you get to so-called Teddy from P4.
***spoiler***
At the end, if you are without the strategy guide, you’re gonna get fucked up right up the ass with a ten meter baseball pole. Not by a monster even, not a boss or some terrible mystery, it’s a conversation in which you have to make very, very specific choices (1 out of 5 answers, for quite a few times) because if you screw up, the game will suddenly end and you won’t know what hit you.

I haven’t read through all the comments but there’s probably at least someone who’s mentioned it but the whole “social link” system is pretty much similar to some Japanese Dating Sims. Not all of them have all the time management elements Persona 3 & 4 have, so I’d say its most like the ones that do (obviously). I’d say its handled much better than a PS1 game called Thousand Arms which was the last attempt I can think of to bring an RPG with Dating Sim elements to the US.
Persona 4 is a pretty good game-there IS a “cute animal mascot” character, but the way he “evolves” as a character is actually quite interesting. I’d also agree that the plot is much more straightforward but it does tend to feel a bit formulaic and sometimes you feel like you’re figuring out a lot of things before the characters do-but there’s still a good number of surprises. I will say that I didn’t like the “second ending”, for one you have to know EXACTLY the right combination of dialog choices to get to it (fortunately I had the strategy guide), but for another thing it’s basically a total rehash of the first ending thematically-and it starts to feel repetitive and EXTREMELY pretentious-it’s like okay, I get it already-I see the message you’re trying to convey! The funny thing is I can’t quite even remember what the message was despite the fact that the game was obviously trying to pound it into my head. lol
I have to say I kinda agree about Eternal Sonata, I kinda liked it but when that one character was killed, it was like we knew her for only a short while in the game, and it’s being all dramatic and FLASHING BACK TO EVERY SCENE SHE’S BEEN IN IN THE GAME, even the ones I’d JUST SEEN A FEW MINUTES AGO!! WTF?!! Everything up to that point was kinda alright, although I’ll say the learning curve is pretty terrible. You can get way too much money from taking photos of monsters and I guess they try to counter that by only allowing you to carry so many items into battle-but when I reach certain boss fights I find that I just don’t have enough potions to keep my party alive so I end up trying to grind my characters up to a high enough level that they have enough health and attack power to survive the battle. I got to this point on a pirate ship or something and it seemed like no matter how far I leveled my characters we still all got killed-thankfully I just rented the game so I ended up returning it.
Anyway, back on the subject of Persona-I should note that the original game is being re-released for the PSP with a new localization so it’s not the “USA-ized” game that came out on the PS1 way back when. Also, there are actually two Persona 2 games and only one (Eternal Punishment I think) came out in the US, the other was called Innocent Sin (which is referenced in P3 as an MMO I think) and I think there’s a fan translation floating out there on the Internets although to play it you either need an Emulator or a modded system.

oh my god…i love you more since i know you play SMT and Persona *o*

ALL HAIL THE MAGICAL SPOONY!

The mudo and hama spells are not really that bad, if you have the “voodoo doll” item it will take the hit for you, plus in persona 4 your guys will also take the hit for you (you need to raise their relationship level tho)

The real problem is that you can only use 1 amulet (plus it takes a while to find useful elemental protection ones) so you cannot protect yourself other than using a protected demons which you cant really “level up” fast enough to save them from becoming obsolete so you are forced to fusion them making the chances of having the right demon at the right time pretty low, then add that to the fact that most monsters in P3 (and some in P4) can kill you in 1 turn if they use your weakness, some in P3 can even kill you in 1 turn as long as you dont have resistance to that particular element

My main complain about the whole Shin Megami Tensei series is the freaking fusion randomness, i get that if you were to be allowed to choose the inherited powers they would be overpowered, but at least let me choose 1 or 2 and make the rest random!!, every freaking time i want to fusion a dude/dudette/thingy i have to reroll them 500 times to get a power combo that doesnt suck (and it gets even worse as the game goes on and you use more demons in fusions, demons have more powers and you start finding really useful spells that become must-have in fusions)

Here is an advice to avoid the save point and the difficulty problem, if you have at least a mid-range dual core with a low to mid range 3d card, play these games in the ps2 emulator with savestates (you can save anywhere, anytime, as many times as you want in as many slots as you want instantly, you just cant beat that), they work almost perfectly, i finished most of them with the emu, they are perfectly playable with only a few graphic glitches here and there, the Persona ones work specially well

To keep this concise and to speak only for myself. I think that the SMT games do something that RPGs don’t too often, which is appeal to mood. Part of the reason the main character is never named is to insert the player’s self into the game, and this, combined with the atmospheric nature of all their games, combine with each games individual elements to make a series that appeals to the subconscious.

Each series (Base Series, Digi-Dev-Sag, Personae, and Devil-Sum) each have their own atmosphere that is unique. The Devil summoner detective atmosphere is wonderfully done, in its own way. It doesn’t make the same mood as the Base Series (a la nocturne) attempt to, but its not trying to. It creates the gumshoe feeling, while Personae gives a interesting meld of the bleak and the optimistic, that made it one of my favorites. A sentiment that I think the ending of Persona one captures perfectly. I won’t spoil it, but the combination of triumph and loss, blend a hopeful future with a tragic sacrifice to create something akin to the messianic narrative.

For all their faults, as long as the SMT games continue to have a strong appeal to mood and mix it with strategy based gameplay, I’ll always be a fan.

P.S. I’m shamed to admit, that as a fan of japanese visual novels, the social aspects of the Personae were my favorite.

I’m a Star Ocean fan; I agree that the latest game is pretty bad, though. It honestly doesn’t feel like a Star Ocean game. Even the third game is stretching it. I say play the 2nd one if you haven’t (an enhanced port was released on the PSP awhile ago), that’s my favorite of the series. mainly since you can pick and choose which party members to recruit and the dialog changes accordingly (I hated how you had a set party in the latest game, which is kind of the opposite of what Star Ocean was known for)

clearly the spirits don’t like you going on about the Shin Megami Tensei series since the books behind you just moved by themselves. creeeepy.

I personally like both real time and turn based RPGs and the only Star Ocean I played was the one that came out on the PS2 called “Star Ocean: Till the end of time” and being the nerd that I am I enjoyed reading all the extra parts of the game and reading about different species and ect. Certainly helps give me creative ground but I must wonder, if you don’t like RTS RPGs, then do you not like Kingdom Hearts?

Personally I’ve only played SMT 3 and Eternal punishment. I haven’t finished ether of them….but looking back I REALLY wish I’d beaten Eternal punishment because there are some really incredible things about it. For instance, there’s this whole mechanic about rumors becoming reality. Now that doesn’t sound amazing, untill you think about what that suggests. How damaging, how damning can it be if any rumor could become real simply by enough people hearing it? It’s demonstrated early in by two things, one rumor being that if you dial your own phone number on your cell, you can ask this joker serial killer to kill someone of your choice, and later at a bar called the parabellum which you turn into a weapons shop by spreading a rumor to that effect. Quite something to think about as both seem to work. then at a certain point you seem to take down the Joker. All seems well. Then a new rumor spreads, that anyone who called the joker….will become him. And one of your party members who is currently unaccounted for might have called him. Unfortunately this is where I left off, but seriously some amazing stuff in there.

Spoony my man, I have waited for the day that you would talk about the Shin Megami Tensei series.
I LOVE the series, although I will admit that I am pretty much glued to a strategy guide most of the time.
I currently own Lucipher’s Call (Nocturne, I dunno why they changed the name), Digital Devil Saga (First part) and have SEVERELY beaten Persona 3 and 4.
Now, there are old Persona games for the PSX, and there are Shin Megami Tensei games for the SNES I believe, but I haven’t had a chance to try those, rest assured, some day I will.
I will say this however: There is a combination technique in Persona 3 that will just make the game ridiculously easy, but I will not spoil it since you’re just half-way into the game. Trust me though, when and if you unlock it you will be able to beat the game in less then a week with MINIMAL EFFORT. I really don’t recommend using it because of that reason, it just makes it so much less challenging.

PERSONA 4! I won’t lie to you, it will be ridiculously hard, and most likely you will have some epic moments of laughter over one particular character.
I love these games for the sole purpose that I can recruit any fucking demon the game throws at me, as long as my level is high enough to do so. Like in Nocturne, as soon as you get Arahabaki you’re pretty much kicking the game’s ass since it’s immune to physical damage, AND stuff on top of that. Granted, any element it’s not immune against it’s actually weak against, but all it really requires is a team of demons with different weaknesses, HOPING that the boss will use a ma-spell of any kind to hit your whole party. Since one of your guys is immune, the boss loses so many turns and gives you ample time to beat the crap out of him.

I have not had a chance to try out Devil Summoner or FES unfortunately.
One last thing: There actually is a way of defending yourself against instant death-spells. There is an item called a homonculus that will take the hit for you if you are hit with mudo or hama spells. However, those items are really rare and/or will cost a lot of precious gems to aquire. And they are only one time use, so stocking up on those is almost a waste of time.

Sorry for the long comment.

Okay Persona 4 improves a LOT over Persona 3 in many aspects. Social links can no longer be reversed just cause you are dating multiple women. Also you’re stats raise more quickly. You still have some problems like unskippable cut scenes. (Please stop it Japan.) However it is hard to say whether or not it’s a better game. It’s so radically different plot wise from 3 or Devil Survivor (the DS one) that it’s almost jarring to see people laughing for a change.

You will be happy to know that persona 4 is better than persona 3 and a LOT easier to maintain interest in. Also that bullshit where if your guy dies, you die doesn’t happen. I personally didn’t like persona 3 because I got bored with it and I hate the battle system. Digital Devil Saga is pretty good, but I still haven’t beaten it.

sadasd

Persona SUCKS Star Ocean SUCKS Shit Megami Tensei and all that bullcrap SUCK Spoony is tight FF on SNES PP on Genesis and ToP are the only good games all of you who like this shit have no taste and SUCK

u should try smt online its free

Tried to read through the comments but there is already a crapload (and some rather long…). P3 FES if I remember correctly is a bit of a continuation of the original Persona 3, so it might explain some of the story gaps.

On a side note: They actually released an anime off of Persona (think off 3′s concept) called Persona : Trinity Soul. It’s a fairly good anime, that unfortunately suffers from being one of the most DEPRESSING animes I’ve ever watched. And I don’t mean it has a “oh that sucks..” moment, I mean it’s an anime that you could watch Neon Genesis straight through to cheer up.

@Ithxsmir Actually, FES is Persona 3 plus some extra elements (extra costumes and scenarios I think) PLUS a whole new scenario that acts as a continuation. I’m guessing Spoony is aware of this and has been working on playing the main scenario first. I’ve also heard the second scenario is REALLY difficult, I haven’t had a chance to get to it since I haven’t finished the main one yet.

Spoony, you better keep playing Persona 3 FES until you finish both The Journey and The Answer. And then go on to Persona 4 because (in my opinion) it is better in every aspect of the word. Though you won’t need convincing about those two. I have never played the first Devil Summoner game, however the second was well worth the time I put in.

So regarding why Shin Megami Tensei games are so good: solid gameplay, great music (I dream of Shoji Meguro), unique plots (dark nature, gods and demons, law and chaos, and everything else.) I would love to type more, but I wouldn’t know what to say without rambling on like the Atlus fanboy I am. So finish the Persona series, give Devil Summoner 2 a chance, and keep being awesome!

The SMT games are fricking awesome, but there are things about it that can be annoying and there is a steep learning curve. I’ve beaten all the Persona games and I actually beat Devil Summoner 1, currently playing through Devil Summoner 2. I have Nocturne and I’ve played DDS, but I haven’t finished those ones.

You are right Matador in Nocturne just rapes you until you get the right levels and monsters. The game is tough for sure, another hard boss is Thor, he just fucks you up and you pretty much have to be lucky to win haha but it does get easier and it helps to have a background in SMT games before playing it.

Hey Spoony! I actually went through all of SMT without a guide, every monster combination I did was just by chance. I confess though all I did was consistantly grind straight for about 30 hours in the subway then other places til I was high in the 70 or 80′s levels. Then I made it to the last stage aka hell I think. And since getting my ass kicked constantly by not even bosses, I gave up. I couldn’t do it anymore. I haven’t picked up a console rpg since, i’m done with them.

I guess i should comment on Digital devil saga since i know the ending is confusing as hell.

DDS’s ending is actually supposed to say that SPOILER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everyone is god, or a part of it if you will, god is the collective unconsious, anyway god (or braman as he’s called in this game) wants you to fight him to understand what you are, anyway in Buddhist and hindu theology this is the belief about the afterlife, so it’s understandable.

I’m actually more surprised that you didn’t comment on roland not being in the ending for some reason, the maker of the game actually forgot to put him in the ending, even though he was supposed to be with the others.

As for persona 4, it is many times over better than persona 3 imo, though neither even come close to persona 2, persona 2 IS is probably one of the best if not THE best game in the SMT series.

As for god being the final enemy, technically that is only true for the main shin megami tensei line, that’s all i’ll say as to not spoil anything in the ones you haven’t played.

Nocturne is quite a hard game, but I can think of one that beats it. Wizardry 4 for the Apple 2. Without a guide you have no hope, and with a guide your hope is incredibly slim. It has to be the most brutal RPG ever devised. It will honestly set you against an invisible minefield where you literally have to throw yourself at the mines on repeated play throughs and hand draw a little map of where all the mines are so that you can find a path to get through them. It has random encounters, but you don’t get any experience points from killing them. You get stronger by getting to the next level. The fights are not only brutal, but you can’t grind and level to make them any easier. Seriously, if you want to try the most brutally hard RPG ever made, get an emulater and just try to play this game.

You should try out the Tales Of series. I think the most known ones are Tales of the Abyss and Tales of Symphonia.

Peronaly, I have never played any of the smt games except P4. And it is one of my favorite rpgs so far. But players beware, even though the game is awesome it ‘treats’ you to a three hour intro/beggining of almost solid story. Luckly it gives you some breaks in there though so you can acully play for a change. The one thing about it that I dont like is a big thing through the series. Even though I played it on easy there was not a single boss after the first two that i can remember beating without dyeing at least once and having to do some grinding. And currently i still havent beaten the final boss even though I’ve been hacking away at him for a few days. My sister and I were playing it non-stop for the first month of summer.

There are no hard jrpgs. There’s only bad and worse jrpgs, because they all suck, and their system is ridiculous: wargames with everchanging rules, improvised for each game, with little strategy other than sit down and watch numbers pop up everywhere until you eventually win (using water against fire etc. is not strategy). If the game is hard you just have to sit down a few hours more, which, in the eyes of the fans, will make them better, as they judge the games for how much of a waste of time they are. Then they say it’s all worth it because of the story, which is even more pitiful because the stories always suck; they suck harder than any shitty Dragonlance novel or SyFy production, and that’s saying something.

If you like jrpgs, you hate yourself, simple as that (or you are autistic and the random numbers and the grinding for levels fascinate you).

Yeah, the game Okage has the same problem with the game being over when the main character dies too.

Hey Spoony
I already wrote those three into the forums under the fitting topic, but since I doubt that you keep track of you whole forum (its a bit much), here are 3 things I thought you could find useful for your Persona 3 experience. If you have already figured them out, well, its for the other who read the comments.
1. Get as many Homunculi as possible. You can get them from quests, given in the Velvet room or from rare chests. They sacrifice themselfes when you are hit with mudo or hama and you wont die.
2. Questitems only drop, if you have the quest from the room. Otherwise enemies wont drop them.
3. You can register personas with items inside and buy them again, once the persona dropped the item. So you can farm specific items for your whole team, if you need to.
Hope that is helpful.
Have fun with the game

[insert first time poster, long time listener line here]

I agree with everything supalime has said about the game, why they like it, and their comments about P4. Persona 4 fixes many aspects I found aggravating in Persona 3/FES. In reference as to what I like about the SMT series [in addition to supalime's comments], I personally love the mythology aspect of it. Being able to summon, create, and see various figures of Greek, Indian, and biblical mythology is something I’ve always loved about the game. I’ve played Persona 3, Persona 3: FES, and Persona 4. I want to play Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga as well one day.

As for your complaints of the main character dying = game over, the instant death spells, etc were frustrating factors I disliked about the game made me want to break the controller in half. When the game goes along well, it’s very rewarding and when something bad happens to you, it’s usually BAD.

Just commenting on P3 FES and P4.

P3 FES has a very good ending, although sadly a very depressing one, however I feel it ties everything up together nicely. The final boss in ‘The Journey’ – without spoiling anything – is pretty well done.

P4 has a very ‘whodunit’ storyline in that you’re trying to go around and solve a mystery. The character Nanako has one of the better story arcs I’ve seen in a game involving little sisters/brothers.

Both are very good games, and I don’t regret time spent on them at all.

I’m not going to tell you to play Persona 4 as you will most likely do that regardless. I will tell you that Persona 4 does fix the problems you have with P3 for the most part. There is a story for the most part which is more than “grind till the next full moon” for half the game. There is no 200 floor tower; instead there are a bunch of smaller dungeons that are actually significant to the story, or at least to the characters involved. They don’t feel nearly as contrived as Tartarus. It’s still gameover when the main character dies which is still bull. It doesn’t even have P3′s justification.

Other than that, watch out for The Answer. I know others will disagree with me on this, but it SUCKS. The story is alright but the gameplay is just soul-sucking. You will miss the social links!

I would think that you’d like P4 more than P3. Sure the story is bland and straightforward but it has a lot to offer than P3 in terms of gameplay and its new light uplifting theme (and I’m the kind of player who looks for atmosphere in the games rather than the story/plot). If you are thinking about RPG for PS2, I’d say get Valkyrie Profile (don’t mistake for WWII-esque bullshit Valkyria Chronicles) which I fell in love by the first 30 min of gameplay not because of plot but because the atmosphere of the game is so aesthetic.

Spoony, where do i begin. I agree. I picked up Digital Devil Saga and Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor for the DS. Theres you have said is present in the portable SMT. For instance the first boss you have to fight is an almighty demon lord thing by the name of Beldr. So he shows up and brings some outrageously high level demons with him. You can beat them but he’ll just keep summoning more so it doesnt make much sense. The boss does relatively high damage and has an ability called vampire mist for life drain. Catch is, he can only be hurt by one thing….an item your character has to acquire. Second problem ONLY your main character can hurt him not the two demonswit him or your other teenie bopper groupies all elemental physical and sta effect abilties he’s immune to O_O. Third problem your character dodes maybe a tenth of his hp and his demon buddies can heal him 3 times the amount of damage you can deal with the specific attack that only the main character has. There is a way to win but it relies on exploiting the extra turn system by being resistant to his specific attacks and setting a passive ability that boosts your crit in order to take his extra turn away. didnt need a strat guide just a million tries. AND THATS THE FIRST BOSS. they dont get any easier as your groupies decide to pick fights with the other demon lords and when you get a choice as to whether you wanna fight them or not if you say no you end up fighting gods angels in an attempt to get out. All in all, has teenage dialogue, amazing sense of accomplishment when you finish it……..oh and theres a tower at the end. HARD as hell but at the same time knowing that you can acquire demons like Loki and Thor to fight alongside you not to mention Lucifer and gods angels :P. But what draws people to these games i think isnt just the badass demons that you get or the fact that it puts absurd amounts of power in the hands of individuals like myself who if given the power in realiuty wouldnt know what to do with all of it, but also the earth shattering sense of personal achievement when you get through the game having figured out alot of it yourself or having followed the strategy guide to a T or even having built your personal character to be the baddest as Individual in the world…..and if people think otherwise why dont they just ask god if he’s ready for round two ^_^

Zio
Mazio
Ziodyne
Maziodyne

Actually the bosses in the DS game are relatively easy. The first boss in Devil Survivor is hard because its a freaking puzzle that the game basically whacks you over the head with.

Hi Spoony! You made me de-lurk because of this lol. I’ve been watching your vids since you were on Youtube and I had to comment on this at least. Umm I love the Persona Series alot more than I should. To me it has a bitchin’ good soundtrack, great and involving characters and story, and game play that makes you feel like you accomplished something when you beat it. My favorite over-all has to be P4 although I do hold P3 fes close to my heart. P4 is like the prettier younger brother to P3. And it does everything better. Oh and quick lil’ tid-bit: In P3 most of the main-characters Persona are straight out of Greek or Roman Mythology, which I love and it explains more about the character’s motivations and personalities. As with P4 they’re more tied in to Japanese Folklore (Trivia: In P4 Yasogami High means 800 gods I believe and it kinda ties into the story.) Oh I’m sorry long post is really long T3T. But I hope you enjoy P4 and the rest of P3 and thank you so much for your funny and entertaining vids. They so make my day ^_^.

i agree with Shinji Shin Megami Tensei Online is actually a very good game

yes i want to kill god … he’s a prick

Persona 4 is much better story and they removed the main charater death=game over bullshit…the first two persona’s are good I believe they remade first persona on the PSP, so it should be a muc better deal. Also i heard devil survivor for the DS is good too. I think the reason the Shin Megami tensai series is really enjoyable is because it’s not the same bullshit over and over again. Devil summoner is a hit or miss game, it does have rasputin in it…but if you like un conventional games I’d recommend Kouldelka, Shadow Hearts, and Shadow hearts covenent…skip new world I know you would hate it. Also fun little fact I think the spells are named after hinduist and buhdist deities. I think that cause Agi is actually the name of the Hindu god of fire…

I want to personally thank The Spoony One for bringing the Shin Megami Tensei series more into the public light. Particularly Persona 3. Thanks to you Spoony I was able to sell these abysmal games on Amazon.com for a lot more than I previously could a few weeks back!

Got some extra cash! Thanks Spoony!

Shin Megami Tensei is a really interesting series. Personally, I tried Nocturne first and found it a little hard to take in all at once. Later though, I tried out Persona 4 and thought it was fantastic. It was quirky, the design and feel of the game was just downright cool, but I think what I liked most was that while it was essentially a traditional jRPG it cut off a lot of the fat. Statistics are simplified, the turn-based battles let me play at my own pace, and the magic weakness system made the game feel more straight-forward and action gamey. I knew I liked it when I went through an entire floor taking out LEGIONS of Shadows in two to three turns.

Anyway, on Persona 3 and the instant kill spells. I’ve only played P4 here, and in that you could find or create Personas that have the ability to resist or repel light or dark magic. Whether it was like that for P3 as well I’m not sure, but it’s worth a try. It saved my ass quite a few times, I tell you.

Oh! Also, someone said that P4 did away with the “main character KO’ed = game over” spiel. Do not listen to their lies. :<

I’ve only played Persona 3 FES and Persona 4 myself, but I rather enjoy them and the school.
For me, I can’t do the same thing all the time. So if I’m training for hours on end, I get bored. Same with social links. So I’m glad they changed it up.

Here’s something to look forward to: In Persona 4 you can CONTROL YOUR PARTY. FINALLY. haha. Also, if you get your rank with your teammates high, they can take fatal blows for you. Good luck Spoony!

Spoony, do you like roguelikes at all? There’s a new one coming from Japan October 6th called Demon’s Souls that might be worth checking out if you’re into a challenge.

I played most of those, except P3.

I loved the start of Nocturne, and I met the Matador . . . and decided “screw this for now”. Digital Devil Saga 1 is beaten under my belt, and I’m working on the absolute bonus boss of that game. Who is wiping my entrails all over the Junkyard (the world of that game) habitually.

I would say Digital Devil Saga is a wonderful game to pick up if you like turn-based combat, as the story is wonderfully immersive, the voice acting is quite good (Crispin Freeman, Steven Jay Blum . . . we stop there, and it’s fully awesome) and overall it is a fair and decent game. It doesn’t feel cheap, it doesn’t often resort to cheap effects to make you lose, and you aren’t locked into bad skill decisions as much as Nocturne. Oh, and the tone is VERY different than your average Final Fantasy; this is DARK and you are facing mature themes as you progress – you are presented with unapologetically adult material (I’m not talking sexual/pornographic or excess gore either) and expected to follow. Oh, and the plot twists are all VERY awesome. I haven’t gotten into the second half of the storyline . . . so I can’t attest to “lame final boss”.

(As a note, it FEELS like the story is indeed divided into two halves and two separate games, as opposed to just trying to milk you for another $50 for the second chapter . . . I’m looking at YOU .hack// .. . )

Nocturn. I only have one comment.

It does not require a strategy guide to play. It helps, I’ll admit, but I played through it without it. There are many, many points in the game that you can get hints or clues about the hard monsters and bosses. As well, it was the only game I’ve played that makes the Analyze chain of spells really useful! I’ll admit, they don’t give you anything on bosses, but if you are fighting the boss with the wrong strat, you better be powerleveled to insane numbers to have a chance.

But there is a serious reward to looking for clues, talking with seemingly meaningless characters and engaging in dialog. Now, you won’t get things spells out for you, like X boss does this chain, but they will say things like “He has a scary Bufu-chain spell” or “He is quick to anger”.

As well, the point to the strange magic system, I found, was to have an impressive and long array of monsters. In fact, I started collecting one of every monster at some point, to get the best skill set and such. As well, there is a wide range of demons and devils that you can obtain. Plenty of chains that you can create, and plenty of groups that have a large list of chains to make generalized teams. Looking up the different magic spells lets you know what it does in the game, and you can look them up on your own monsters!

I find the game to be so much more rewarding this way, though I’ll admit longer. Then again, maybe I’m a freak like that.

Oh, and since you need some evidence. When in jail, if you go through the right sequence you can get told the Boss’s weakness. But, it’s a bit costly. Another point you are told the personalities of the three sisters, and their fighting styles is dependent on their personalities. Those three do not have weaknesses, par say, but you have to build around crippling their strat. On about half of the bosses, I died atleast once.

And the trick to the Lower Lair is to use super-monsters from the previous level. One level has a demon that Nulls or Reflects everything except one thing. So all you need in your party is a Demon that is Strong or Null against that one weakness. This cuts the Turns on the opposing side by huge numbers.

Really, the core of the combat is making use of the Turn system. You get a set number of turns, an attack that hits a weakness only uses a half turn (a half turn counts as a full turn, but can’t be extended further), an attack that hits a strong eats two turns, reflect and absorb eat all, IIRC. But, there are spells that increase your turn count, or set your turn count to a certain number. So the trick is to get the most attacks in a round while denying your opponent. Planning out a round down to which monster goes last on your list is a huge help as well, as you’ll always want a Half turn up (one created by a weakness hit or pass) when a mod that can’t create a weakness is up. If you are able to consistently plan out your hits, weaknesses and passes so that you can use the spells that reset your turn count to a certain number, then you can easily get over 10 attacks in a round. It’s why a general Dream Team of monsters able to pull off a wide range of chains is so useful. Bosses almost need ideal setups, but with a temple right next to most of them and if you have been monster breeding from the start, it shouldn’t be insanely hard.

Micromanagement on this is a bit extreme, and when added with everything else made it feel like a really deep game. Also, the bare bones story actually feels to tie in well to the game, as you are seeing it from the eyes of your character, learning it as he does, except for a few points.

P.S. There are quite a few ways of making yourself immune to Death Magic, and it’s a shame because to me it feels like it locks that in on your character, removing alot of the customization out of it. But with Null or Reflect Death by either a Spell or natural selection makes that issue go away, in fact it makes it a strength. Death Magic only really becomes a problem when you have Weakness to it, in which case it almost always hits.

I love the persona series, but yes Persona 3 takes a while tot ake off but once it does, it starts going. YOu get a full mooin cycle to egar up for the enxt story boss and do what you do so you can always skip days if you want. The ending though I felt was rewarding and gave you a new view of people in the world.

Persona has the same elements, but it allows you to control all the other characters and I dont think its game over when the main character dies. The theme is still a little dark but has a lot more funny elements and fun things to do. There’s not just a single tower in this games, there’s a lot of dungeons this time. Some more odd….and funny than others. I suggest you play both and review them. They seem fun.

Btw, yes the spell names are annoying but you get used to them after a while. Btw, so you know. You can make items to defend against instant death for whenever you get item(weapon) creation

I can’t agree more about Star Ocean, especially the newest one. Who the hell makes a cut scene over 30 minutes long?! That game stretched my patience to the limit and after finally beating it, the game says that there are other endings for the characters. What the hell is the point? The hugest problem I had with one the character’s endings was Crowe. His, Edge’s, and Faize’s endings were just pure bullshit.

I was just wondering why no one has played the original SMT and SMT2. Yes, they are only in japanese and therefore you need a patch to play in english. Yes, they are dungen crawls. Yes, the story is told slowly and only in certain rooms of HUGE dungens. But they are fantastic. It gives a huge bonus to play those before the others to get the spells down right and see where some of the injokes are from. And you get to kill god. With lucifer in your party. How freakin’ cool is that?
I’m currently like halfish through nocturne, loving it, hating it because it is stupidly hard (that’s one thing that’s good in the older ones, no instant game over if the main character dies), loving the new monster designs. I’m also like 3/4 through persona3, but currently stuck at a boss I’m feeling particluarly vendictive against and don’t really want to fight right now. I haven’t played any of the devil summoner series, though I kinda want to.

lol @ recommending The Answer. Waste of 30 hours imo, it’s basically an excessive grind game that barely gives anything to the story.

The things that drew me to the Persona games are the Social Links, the music, and dialogue that doesn’t suck balls like in most RPGs (Star Ocean: The Last Hope is fucking horrible). The people in the game actually talk as if they’re real people.

Just making pointing out something in defense of SMT:Nocturne. Spoony, I assure you it’s PERFECTLY POSSIBLE to beat that game without some kind of guide or printout. I did. And yes, the game system kinda assrapes you at the beginning, expecially if you’re playing Lucifer’s Call/Maniacs (as I did) and you have to deal with fiends – but once you have found out a few tricks (fog breath anyone?) pretty much anyone becomes beatable. I think it’s a GREAT game, really.

Shin Megami tensei is by far one of the hardest RPG games in video game history. So i know what u mean by nocturne’s difficulty with the bosses and really u cant beat them without a strategy guide or fight them all over again to learn which magatama’s to equip and to have certain demons with resistances or debuffs. it truly is impossible without a guide or u have the patience to study every move your opponent makes. I managed to beat the secret bosses in P3 FES and P4 by trying to stay alive long enough to see wat they do every 50 turns (ussually they do an instant kill move 1000+ dmg if not properly gaurded) and this is with almost every SMT game’s secret boss so its just pure luck or strategy it aint FF when u just pull all ur best attacks at once and MAYBE you’ll beat the guy. as for Devil summoner your not missing much the story is kinda boring and the gameplay is dull for an Action-RPG and the seconds game is pretty much the same but u can use 2 demons…big whoop but dont take my word for it. rent it and see.

everything you complained about Persona 3, they fixed in Persona 4.

however, on Persona 4, just play the game on easy mode unless you wanna pull your hair out, and also use a strategy guide. you can use gamefaqs or something you dont have to buy anything.

Persona 4 was a great game.

You play Nocturne the same way I play KOL. The wiki open in one tab, KOL open in another.

I am not ashamed at all.

I have to disagree on this one . P3′s a pretty good game . You say they don’t make RPGs like FF6 and such and I wish they would too. But the situation’s not bad. In the PS2 library ,at least. I suggest trying Persona 4 ,that fixes almost everything you mentioned in the vlog , and Shadow Hearts Covenant a great horror-based RPG . And if you have a PS3 I recommend the only good RPG of this gen ,Valkiria Chronicles. Trust me, that game is AWESOME.

haha i stupdly bought start ocean, for ps2.. it was only $20 and i wnated a new rpg.. moral of the story dont judge an RPG on the box, and the words SQUARESOFT on the box haha

Do I ever agree with you about Persona 3. I had the exact same experience, I was so irrevocably hooked and I could not for the life of me explain to anyone why. But I’ll tell you this, it is damn long. I’m pretty sure its the longest main quest I have ever played.
I got very near to the end and did end up stopping when, as you said, the cheap-ass absolutely infuriating fact that the main character’s death is Game Over. WHY?!!?!?! WHY WHY WHY?! Yes, a humonculous will shield you from a hama or mudo spell, but they don’t exactly hand them out all over the place, and since towards the end of the game EVERY ENEMY uses it, you run out. And I’m stuck on some floor boss and that bullshit just caused me to lose just one too many hours or leveling and I swore off of it.
Just like you said, all your other party members end up with revival spells, you always have tons of revival beads, WHY can the not use it on you? Are they completely helpless without you. Good lord it is among the most frustrating things I’ve ever encountered in a video game. Which sucks because I really was hopelessly hooked.

atheists don’t hate god, they just don’t believe he exists.
Do you hate the invisble dragon in my garage?

fuck you spoony star ocean 1 and 2 are awesome

Alright, I might as well add my 2 cents to this.

Persona 3, in my opinion, once you start getting in to the story, is amazing. This is only my opinion, but out of anything I’ve played, seen, read, heard, etc., it has the best story. I’m currently in the process of beating the 2nd scenario in FES, and it’s true, it’s difficulty level is equivalent to that of the Hard mode in the original story. I’ve been getting frustrated with it too, but it’s not god-awful, balls to the wall horrible.

I’ve played up to one of the final dungeons in Persona 4, and it has better gameplay, it seems, but, don’t get me wrong, the Persona 4 story is still amazing, but it didn’t get me as hooked as Persona 3. I know, I haven’t finished it, but I’ve seen the ending at a friend’s house.

I haven’t played any other SMT games, but my friend showed me the final boss of DDS 1, so yeah. I need to play those.

Just my thoughts, oh and I’ve played Star Ocean 3, but only the very beginning, I should get back to it sometime. :P I liked it. And I’ve seen my friend play through tons of SO3 and 4. And Eternal Sonata for that matter.

And all these people being all like “fuck you your opinion is wrong” makes me laugh. :P

It’s really kind of a shame that you didn’t get farther than ten minutes into Devil Summoner, because I know you’d like the guy who does your demon-fusing work for you. I agree that the game feels broken, though.

I’ve played the SMT series for a few years now and, honestly, they’re the only console-based rpgs I bother with. A few notes about some of the complaints:

It’s not that hard to tell what you’ve been hit with or what ability you’re about to use. Beside every spell is a neat little description of what it does (ex: Mabufudyne: Hits the enemy party for heavy cold damage). And even if the enemy’s casting it and you don’t have the description handy, the visual effects alone make it pretty easy to tell what’s being cast. And for those that aren’t very obvious, usually a little text message pops up (Defense reduced, etc).

Even with those evil foreign words, it really doesn’t take that long to figure out the basic translations:
Agi: Fire
Bufu: Cold
Zan: Force
Zio: Shock
Hama: Holy
Mudo: Death
Megido: Almighty
(prefix) Ma: All-target
(suffix) Lo, La, Ma: Mid-strength.
(suffix) Dyne: High-strength
(suffix) Kaja: Buff/enhancement
(suffix) Unda: Debuff

I’ll agree that playing through Nocturne without a strategy guide handy is either suicide or requires a world of patience. Even with the guide though, it’s more than tough enough to feel highly rewarding when you beat certain portions of it. I know I felt pretty damn good when I was the only one able to beat the ultra-secret-optional boss Lucifer (with a party of Shiva, Beelzebub and Metatron, with only the Demifiend having the pierce ability). The DDS series are both easier and more difficult. The battles are a lot harder, but the skill system is a *lot* better, which allows you to prepare for them much more effectively.

Still, if you want to experience the strong urge to throw your controller through the TV screen, try taking on the Demifiend in DDS1 or Satan in DDS2.

SMT NOCTURNE- An awsome game with good difficulty (not to hard, not to easy)

I love gaming and i mean really love, and i like reading walkthroughs and comments to see if people share my opinion about certain aspects of games. And all i ever see about games like nocturne is that they are “too hard” and you need to grind levels to complete it.
You seriously dont need a fucking guide to beat this game, try giving it a little more effort before giving up. I mean youre like 7 year old schoolgirls whining as soon as something dont go your way.
Its really not hard to learn what different spells does to you cause either you have them yourself or you see the status changes next your name or on the screen, why do people complain about this?

Dying is a part of rpgs (or at least used to be)

Im glad there are games like nocturne to give a little challenge like in the good old 8-bit days.

FYI i beat nocturne without having played any of the previous ones and without a fucking guide for retards and i was like lvl 85 when i beat lucifer with no fucking “super demons” like metatron or beelzebub. (damien you suck balls if youre bragging about that). I died maybe 6-7 times and i never grinded any levels cause i consider that cheating.

Strategy guide my ass – thats like taking cocaine before the 100 meters run and then feel good about yourself when winning.
Spoony i love you and i will still love all your videos but you dissapoint me greatly cause i thaught you were hard core.
Oh also no offense to anyone, its just a game right? :)

Spoony, I agree that the “main character dying ends the game” is frustrating. But, without giving too much away, there is a little bit of the P3 plot that might explain that in the gameplay. It’s still frustrating, but when you finish the game, you might see the connection. By now you’ve probably already noticed that there’s something just a little different about the P3 main character. Something that might explain why, if he dies, then it’s game over.

But that still doesn’t explain why the game acts like the other party members just get knocked unconscious when they go down, but the MC dies when he goes down.

I personally can’t say much about Persona 3 or 4, or SMT: Nocturne. I haven’t played the more recently released Shin Megami Tensei games yet, though I hope to get around to it. So far all I’ve played was Persona 1 and 2, and Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2, but those are incredible games in my opinion, and I’d really recommend trying those.

Shin Megami Tensei 1 & 2 have the plot spread all over the place, but when you get to it, it’s amazing. The way your actions will put you on the side of law or chaos is something that I rarely see in JRPG’s, and It’s a great addition in my opinion.

Persona 1 was good, but the heavy Americanization of the game really ends up hurting the characters and the story of it. Persona 2 is probably my favorite in the series so far, taking out any form of the American themes present in it’s predecessor, and having some of the best done characters and stories I’ve ever seen. This is all just my opinion though.

Well its a great series. Persona 4 is awesome. The characters are all loveable or you can sympathise with them (well except two you hate). Only problem is the long intro. Also with Raidou give it a chance, its fairly easy. They are some problems which you will probably need a guide to do well at it, but its a fairly good game with a decent plot and its realtime but, they are strategy elements in it… uh think FF7 CC and thats a similar feel, its not that hard to get used to it, grinding to get higher levels is the only problem, and the bit where your body is cursed. Also SMT 1 and 2 you can get fan translations of it for a snes emulator, they are pretty dark.
Older SMT series themes were centred around Law, Chaos and Neutral, all being different beliefs. Like Law being a complete justice scenario, working so that everyone becomes the same. Chaos is making a animal like human world, were its pure survival and anyone pissing you off, kill them and its fine, lose laws for wild freedom. Neutral is kick both the Devil and God’s asses and say Humans should care for themselves, or a world where they all work together.

Actually, I’m that fan of Star Ocean that you just don’t understand, Spoony. Star Ocean: The Second Story was the first action-combat rpg I ever played and I thought it was a wonderful idea. In my opinion, it adds a small bit of realism to rpg combat by adding positioning and baiting environmental hazards into combat strategy, as well as completely getting rid of the “Throw your weapon at the opponent, run up to him and retrieve your weapon, go back to where you were and wait for him to hit you” mechanic that you complained so much about in your FFVIII review. My main attraction to Star Ocean, however, is the item creation and combat skill/magic mechanics. I think it is great that a game implemented a system where skills and magics grow more powerful as a character masters the individual skills and spells instead of the sudden leaps of power where your early spells are completely useless 10 hours into the game. As for item creation, it is nice to be able to gather raw materials and make my own items and equipment, and it is especially rewarding that once the characters get good enough at their crafts, they make items and equipment that is more powerful than anything the stores will sell. I saw it as a nice reward where instead of hunting down the super powerful gear, you build up the skills to make it.

I’m not trying to say your opinion is wrong. Everyone has their own tastes and in the end games are all about what you have fun doing. I just thought I would share what attracts players to the Star Ocean series, for those who haven’t tried it yet. I have only played the second and third one, and in my opinion the second is much better and still among my favorite rpgs.

I’m attracted to the SMT series since it just has some kind of special charm, sometimes the stories aren’t to great but usually the character can make up for that if you really try and get to know them and sometimes the gameplay even if it is really hard can be fun. If you ever do finish P3, a word of warning for you, don’t try and play it’s “sequel” The Answer since the story for it is really weak, and it takes a lot of the fun elements from the main game and just removes them and in turn increases the difficulty. Persona 4 is a lot better then 3 IMO, the gameplay is more fair for dungeons (it helps that they split them up into individual ones to make it feel like less of a strain) and it’s much easier to balance the relationships since they removed the “they get mad at you if you don’t spend time with them” element.

It’s still instant death if you get element spammed but that comes up less often now, about the only flaws I can name are that while fun it takes a little to long before the game actually “starts” and it’s really dialogue heavy at the start. Anther flaw I would have to give it is it’s ending, the multiple endings thing was a good idea but the way you avoid the worst ending is something of a pain for someone without a clue as to what to do without a guide.

Do your self a favor and pay the s-nes ones

Spoony, if you can sit through the 2 hour intro, play P4 it’s 10x better than P3.

It has multiple unique dungeons, each with their own catchy music, that range from 8-12 floors. They include a castle, a strip club (no naked chicks in it through) and even a parody of retro RPGs. Your friends will only hate you if you act like a total dick in front of them, just like in real life.

Combat is turn based and yes it still uses the same spells but the game tells what they do now. Also, at least on easy, if an enemy finds your weakness it will just turn to another person and attack him/her. Another thing is, once again I’ve only played on easy, there are only a few enemies that use hana or mudoo spells and they’re not until later in the game and there’s ether special items that prevent it or one of our friends will jump in front of the attack for the cost of draining their health to one. As for the persona summoning, they replaced that gun thing with a card thing.

For the final boss, you fight a major Japanese goddess who, trust me, deserves the ass whooping you and your friends give her. In specking of bosses, most do not have any weakness or strengths against any regular element leaving the ways to beat them more a plenty.

On a final note if you do play on easy the enemies are still hard but manage able for the average RPG player like me, you also get 10 Moon T-something Japanese. They serve as continues. The way the work is if you fall in combat you’ll see a prompt window asking if you want to use them. Say yes and you and your party members will be revived with full health and SP.
So other than what I told you P4 is plays like P3 only more streamlined for the average player. And yes, you can still fuse Satan

I strongly advise you not to give up on Persona 3. The story (and especially the end) is awesome.
And yes, you can summon Satan. And Lucifer. (There’s a difference between the two in Shin Megami Tensei.)

As for me, what attracted me to the game is the sheer amount of skills/monsters/Persona in the game. And also the fact that it was difficult. The mythological side also attracted me.

As Siriel said the fact there so much content in the game skills/monster/persona…so much different stuff i mean its not just like 1 monster and change the color to make it different that what i like of these game that kinda rare these day to see so many different model of monster…but its same time yeah its got a little down side cause they will use these model on almost all the game but they so cool i don’t mind it and there is some different design in all games. I am really big fan of SMT i been playing these game since sega cd oh yeah sega cd lol i bet there not lot of people who know that game cause smt back then was really rare and mostly only in japan like the first devil summoner was on the super famicom. But back to the blog make me laugh so bad when you said its hard but its because its cheap and not fair and its sooo true any monster can kill you. A good example i have was in degital devil saga 1 when you in that giant tower you end up well i don’t remember well exactly where in the tower but its was haft way I’m pretty sure the boss was 2 bird and the attacked first and the cast mudo on all my character and IT did work on all of them !!! game over i die on the first turn of my boss fight cause the fucking boss cast death on me ….of course when i try back i put my protection again mudo and they never cast it back !!! for devil summoner i like the game BUT i don’t think you will miss much if you skip that one there so many SMT games yes its have lots to give you but in same time if you prefer turn base i don’t think you really need to play that one. well anyways ….when i start talking about SMT i cant stop lol.. btw did you try the mmo of SMT i was in the close beta now its open i think the beta over I’m not sure its free game with cash shop but you don’t really need it to be able to enjoy the game its the same tactic its kinda like devil summoner where to get demo you tame it like you talk with them hey ! do you want to be my friend lol after that you got the church to fusion them with other and you got a tower that take place of instance and you clean up these stage i would say try it out if you got spare time but better stick with the console game imo

STRATEGY GUIDES IS FOR IDIOTS OR AMERICANS.

You dont know a shit about RPG.

Funny thing is that yesterday I bought my fourth Shin Megami Tensei game as well as the P3 guide. My brothers bitch about me getting them, but I really like avoiding bad endings so they can shove it. Anyway, I’m in the middle of playing Persona 4 and Devil Summoner. I agree that the real time battle is really irritating in that game though. I always have to have a demon that has a healing power because you just get bombarded with all this shit until it fucks you up and you die. And then you teleport and get eaten by spirits? I bothers me. Other than that it’s interesting enough to have kept me playing. I’m at the end but I haven’t played for months. OTL I tend to do that though. In Persona 4 I am also at the end but I’m still playing. This has everything to do with the story line. It’s really good and for me it makes me continue playing because you are constantly wondering who the killer is and how it will end. The dungeons are really cool too, because they are all different and fun rather than just the tower. Some of them are a bit strange though. You’ll understand what I mean when you get to the bath house… Again you are doing the high school thing and Social Link events, but I kind of like those. What was great about the whole killer thing was that you are wrong for most of the game and you get to the end and it was kind of shocking to find out who it really is! I’m at the very beginning to Persona 3 right now though, and I think you might visit the school from that game in Persona 4 but I can’t really remember. So from what I have played so far from the Shin Megami Tensei series I know that I’ll keep getting them when they come out, or when I find new ones, as I did yesterday. I hope you enjoy Persona 4 too, because it’s one of my favorites. (And I guess I should really get around to finishing Devil Summoner now..)

Yeah I’m going through Persona 3 FES right now. I’m still doing the Journey a 2nd time just to get all the max social links. I’m basically using a gamefaq guide verbatum, and I still think it messed me up somehow.

Once you figure out what the words and symbols mean the battles aren’t that tough, although they can still be cheap unless you stock specific items (the homoculus stops instant death on main character).

Being that im a newb at most of the RPG’s put out im not really that excited about playing them when they first come out. but i have picked up a few title and the ones that stick out are the vanillaware games Odinsphere, GrimGrimoire, Muramasa the demon blade. things like that i also reccomend the Lunar series if you can find it although Dragonsong is slightly dissapointing..

Spoony, I have to agree with a few other posts when they say if you like P3 you will love P4. I’ve played both and I am currently moving my way through P4. Here is the thing: P4 is like P3 with a lot of the frustrations cleared out of it. It almost makes P3 seem like a beta version. That may be a bit harsh and perhaps I am over selling P4 but I honestly love this game. The bad news is that if your main character dies you still take the auto-loss. I cannot defend this in that it seems like an interesting concept and yet as soon as you lose a major piece of your progress frustration levels heighten. P4 is a little better because you can usually escape battles and then use a “Go-home” to escape the various dungeons and then when you return you can start off on the last level you were on so you are less likely to leave and save preventing the huge loss. You do still go to high school but it is far less tedious since often the game sims you through the school day and starts you off right after school has finished. A couple of times the game asks you a question while at school but it is not all the time and it boosts knowledge. The story is amazing. It grabbed my attention right off the bat and has kept my interest. The characters are well done and are definitely good for a laugh. Now that I have talked up the game a bit……I have some bad news. In the game you get to pick your responses which is great however, there are some responses that you needs certain attributes (like courage) you need to be advanced to pick that response. This is an issue because a few of them are early in the game and there is no way you could be advanced enough to pick that option meaning in you want to say those thing you have to play through the game twice. On the second time through you get to keep all your stats which gives the game decent replay value. You finally get to say the things that you wanted to, to start with. This flaw doesn’t come up all the time so it isn’t a game killer. If you do play more you should do a review so I can hear what you think.

I doubt Spoony is the one to spend 70+ hours simply having a fictitious social life without a compelling plot. It only comes RIGHT at the end in P4, the first supposed final boss being a nice surprise, the true final boss being horribly executed.

It’s still a pretty entertaining game, but from this Vlog P4 is just not for Spoony if the school life thing got boring for him, because that’s pretty much 95% of P4.

When I saw Persona 3 FES on Paw’s Top 9 Countdown, I felt very compelled to play it. Luckily a little over 2 weeks ago I found a copy of it at GameStop… I have been playing it everyday since. It has good music, a good story (Once you get to it as Spoony said), good cutscenes (Anime haters will argue this, HOWEVER you have to admit: they didn’t use in-game, or CG; they took the path less traveled) The reasons I love the game are 1) It’s controversy, and how it just says, “Hey Christianity, not so high and mighty now are you?” Especially in the class of the magic teacher who just talks about how christianity and paganism, and the such are one and the same and they all stemmed from the same BS. THAT BEING SAID, even though I am aethiest I’m not the kind of aethiest that wants to rub it in the face of every single bible thumper I meet, I don’t care what your views are or why. But still for a video game, that’s pretty fucking ballsy. 2) Persona LITERALLY means ‘mask’ you make friends and change yourself according to their liking. That is a persona, you put on the mask that the person you are with likes. The monsters, the ‘personas’ ARE your masks, the anger, the beauty, the malevolence that you force when with different people. It’s like the game is a metaphor for our sociology…… Or I thought so at least.

Well Persona 3 FES is a decent game and I love the extra chapter at the end. Yet Persona 4 is way better. They definitely have a better plot and hook for the players. The social interactions are better pulled off and the balance between friends, school, and dungeons feel better to me. You should try it.

I’ve been interested in the SMT series for a while now, and finally ordered Nocturne off of Amazon… Maybe not the best idea considering what I hear about the difficulty, but out of all of them, it intrigued me most. DDS and P4 are my next picks if I like the series. I’m hearing mixed opinions on the difficulty of Nocturne, but I’m going to try it without a guide for as long as I can hold out.

I’ve never been a big RPG guy, but Atlus hasn’t disappointed me with their games yet, I really like the art style and overall weirdness of the SMT series, and I need a good console RPG anyways. I got Xenosaga Episode 1 almost a year ago, and I still haven’t even touched the game. I heard it was good (Compared to its later installments anyways) but it just didn’t strike me as interesting. I’ve been rambling long enough so I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for giving some insight on the series Spoony! I appreciate it.

i crack up every time you say bufu:
i’ll just recommend the bufu scene from “How High”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjzGr1EFrI4&feature=related
it’s awesome

The SMT series is by far my favorite RPG series of all time, i just love these games. Maybe it’s the epic story lines, maybe it’s the fact that this series may be the only RPG series of this day and age that is actually challenging, maybe it’s my fascination with religion and mythology, but i just love this series. The battle system is simplistic, but it works, and you can really feel progress as you delve further into the games and the stories just suck you in. I agree that the SMT games tend to fight dirty, and can be downright cheap sometimes, but i love them all the same, Nocturne being my favorite by miles.
The Persona series i didn’t like quite as much… probably because there just isn’t that much RPG content when it comes right down to it. Yeah you got your big ass tower, not to spoil anything, but that’s all there is outside of a few monthly events. I didn’t really care for the social sim, which can take up a lot of your time. I did play Persona 4 and it’s basically the same thing, but with even more emphasis on the social sim. Still, the main plots of both games are very good, which you can always expect from the SMT series. Just turn off the voice acting >_>
I also ignored Devil Summoner for the same reasons you did. Zero appeal to me. Although maybe i’m missing something…

But Nocturne and DDS, they just don’t come as good as this.

I wuv the True Goddess Reincarnation series. First, the main series;

SMT1 – Fun, but pretty short and on the easy side. If you can get your hands on it, I’d recommend it.
SMT2 – See above, but it’s a bit longer and harder.
SMT3 – DEAR GOD THIS GAME IS INSANELY AWESOME, FUN AS HELL AND FUCKING HARD AS BALLS. IF YOU CAN GET IT, I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND IT. ONE OF THE BEST PS2 GAMES EVER MADE.

Next, the main spin-off (i.e. the one every one knows): Per-So-Na.

Persona – Get the PSP version if/when you can. The original version is pretty crap to be honest.
Infinite Sin – Honestly, never played it.
Endless Punishment – Extremely awesome, but can be a grindfest near the end.
Persona 3 (FES) – Fun, epic OST (I dont really like Rap, but I find myself singing along to Lotus Juice for example >.>), and even on Hard, it’s – honestly – very, very easy. Even without NG+, Armageddon/Victory Cry combo etc. it’s a joke. Aside from the last boss. But fuck that thing. 13 forms. And the “good” ending isn’t worth it. In fact, to spare you the trouble of fighting Nyx: Minato dies.
Persona 4 – Haven’t played yet.

Now, for Digital Devil Saga – my preferred duology;

DDS1 – Fun, little tricky at times, the Macca grind is really fucking insane, the main character from Nocturne is an optional boss and he is the hardest fight ever created for any JRPG. Waaaaay too short though.
DDS2 – Makes a few interesting decisions, but the regular battle theme is the best battle music I’ve ever heard. Still a bit too short, but it explains everything DDS1 didn’t. That is, everything.

Devil Survivor – Best. DS. Game. Ever.

Raidou Kuzunoha (both) – Deviate from the regular formula, but are pretty good for action games.

Imagine (the MMO) – DO NOT PLAY THIS. IT FUCKING SUCKS.

Giten Megami/Last Bible/Devil Children (3 seperate games; all side stories) – Never played.

As for your comment about P3 on why the game ends when the MC dies, that’s because of plot reasons. It doesn’t make sense until the end.

Id like to hear you give a follow up to this

Have you ever heard of shin megami tensai online? It has microtransactions but not even close to the degree of D&D online, it is really action based for an mmo. The combat is nothing like wow, and the stuff you buy in microtransactions are weapons that are hardly needed, the game is fairly skill based. Just wanted to put it out there, in case your interested.

Late reply, dude, but listen up.
P4′s biggest issue is that there really isn’t a formidable final boss. Also, the game’s bosses are pathetically easy (Power Charge + any Med. Physical that hits more than once = dead boss). Nyx, on the other hand, is a motherfucker of a boss (13 forms). Btw, why are so many people running into the Insta-death thing? By level 65 I stopped caring about those spells hitting the MC, since I always had protection. Just fuse the Justice Arcana or something.

Here’s a short rundown:
P1: Haven’t played. Get the PSP one.
P2 IS: Canon homolust, best story, guitar case guns.
P2 EP: Continuing the past game’s awesomeness.
P3 FES: Minato is Jesus. Awesome OST and atmosphere. Best Devil and Tower Social Link.
P4: Best Gameplay, Naoto is fucking amazing.

Devil Summoner is like if you mix SMT: Nocturne with Tales Of…-battle system. Also, every demon (with or without gender) wants you. In that way.

Ironic that I watched this one right after beating Star Ocean IV. I like the gameplay and new item creation system, but almost everything else is laughable at best.

Longtime viewer, first time commenter here; Your rant convinced me to try out the Shin Megami Tensei series; though I always heard good things about it (and, coincidentally, Persona), I’ve always been on the border on whether or not to go track the games down.

One SMT game I did play, though, was SMT: Imagine, the (free) MMORPG game, which I recommend, though I do have to warn you that the tutorial mission takes 10 minutes, which isn’t that long, but then you have to do another tutorial mission, which isn’t as fun as the first, and tells you everything you just learned. Also, I’m not sure how you captured demons in the other games, but in this game, you do it by using one of three commands (taunt, talk, threaten), which to this day, I still have no idea how to use them, so you’ll either need a guide or luck to catch them.

Overall, I’d say try it, because at worst, you lose a few hours of your time, but then will have something new to rant about.

The more I watch your reviews, the more I seem to like you. I seem to have – somewhat – the same taste you have. You like Cthulhu Mythos (I've seen that poster in your videos ;D ) and now you tell that you (more ot less) enjoy SMT series.
It's cool to see that you also have discovered the SMT series as well.

At the moment, I own Persona 1 (PSP, just started but seems promising for such an old game), 3, 4 and Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2. I would love to play the earlier PS2 releases as well but nowadays, they're pretty hard to come by (in Finland).

I'm into demonology, religions and dieties. STM has a whole load of that that stuff and it's the main reason I got into the SMT series in the first place. P1 and 2 also take some things (mainly deities) from the Cthulhu Mythos which is quite awesome as well (hoping to see Cthulhu in SMT some day).
The gameplay is turn-based, which I personaly prefer, and fighting is more strategic in a sense that you need to do more then just smash an “X” button to win *KOFF* Final Fantasy *KOFF*.
Despite the cute, colourfull, standard anime outlook, SMT games tend to contain deep philosophical issues about life and reality, which always seem to amaze me. Like you said, it's unconventional and something you don't see in RPGs every day.
I'm also an amature artist, really into monster-designing, and I simply orgasm for some of the desings in the SMT series. For example, I was blown a way the first time I saw the Satan Persona in P3, which took the idea of Satan being in a form of a serpent (Genesis) and made it into something REALLY mind-blowingly awesome.
I'm also into stories that somehow involve apocalypse or the end of the world, and in all SMT games I've played, this always seems to be the scenario-

Guess I'm a bit late here, but I like the series purely because of your last point in the video: the games are just so unique. Everything about them is different, even the turn-based battling is somewhat unconventional with the demon summoning. The music is consistently amazing and the characters (mainly in Persona and DDS) are incredibly deep.

I will always prefer this series to Final Fantasy, which I feel is now trying to become something much more than it could possibly be, like it isn't satisfied with itself.

And your last note on Lost Odyssey, I've just got into it and really, it isn't that bad. Well I like it anyway.

I probably come a little too late with that comment and you probably played P4 by now but P3:FES is an extension of P3. Without playing P3, P3 FES might seem confusing.

I got into Shin Megami Tensei REALLY recently. It happens I have owned my FIRST PS2 ever for 1 month now – in year two thousand effin' ten!

That started off with Persona 4 – Awesome, nothing less, nothing more. Since it was so balanced it makes backtracking harder, but I let myself fight the power.

Persona 3 FES Journey is supposed to be normal P3 with few additions (no?) – What I played recently after P4 – And it really also misses a story. Grinding is needed but you are punished for that, and to let your progress be any good, you need to go set amount of floors, and you never know if it is 5, 10 or 15 floors before next “checkpoint”

I really wonder how in hell people say this game has better story than 4 – So that curiosity is only thing that drives me.

Strange Journey on DS seems, good, but have not played that much so…

Great overview, I was almost to get into nocturne without mental preparation, but seems that I need to be prepared first.

I like the smt series, I haven't played all of them but of the ones I have played I will gladly tell you about them (spoilers for those who have not played the game).
Nocturne:
This is a great game and a lot of people do not seem to understand the plot for some reason. It isn't random that the world ends and you survive. The main character is going to visit a teacher in hospital and the teacher is part of a cult who are attempting to end the world so they can change it and make it better. Hikawa (the leader of this cult) ends the world but ensures that everyone in the hospital survives (for the obvious reason that he doesn't want himself and his followers to die). The teacher did not want the main character to die (which raises questions as to what kind of relationship they had). Then after the world ends *spoiler* lucifer *spoiler* inserts a parasite in your eye which turns you into a half demon. The plot for the rest of the game is simple you must choose a side to take depending on what you want the new world to be, then climb up a big tower and beat the crap out of “god” and force him to make the world into whatever “reason” you picked (the reasons being a basic premise the world is based on). (I put god in “” because people tend to get confused, its not the christian god its actually the fire god kagutsuchi.) Now as for the skills having different names its only like how in final fantasy fire spells were fire fira and firaga and ice spells were blizzard blizara and blizaga. If you didnt know what “bufudyne” was then you wouldnt have to look it up, just look at the spell description which says “a single target heavy ice spell” if you get hit by a spell its kind of obvious what it does from either the animation or (in the case of rakunda) it will say “defense reduced”. With the bosses, I laughed when you mentioned matador. EVERYBODY gets beaten by matador on their first go through the game, this is because he is the first boss that isnt straight forward so to beat him you actually have to think and prepare for the battle (which admitidly requires either looking at a guide or losing against him first) all you need then is to equip the magatama that voids wind spells and make sure to have either dekaja (gets rid of his buffs) or sukunda/fog breath (decreases agility), you dont need to level grind for ages and there are probably other ways to beat him though what I have said is the most obvious and easiest to do (I did not use a strategy guide to work out how to beat him). I don't think you need a strategy guide to beat this game, I will start a new game and try it (my memory is terrible so you can't say ill just remember how to beat all the bosses and puzzles). Getting game over when the main character dies on nocturne makes sense as the demons in your party are basically slaves (except pixie and dante) so they don't really give a shit if you die.

Persona 3:
As for this it doesnt make sense why you get gameover when the main character dies. In answer to your question “what is at the top of the tower” I wont spoil it for you in case you havent completed it yet but I will say that it is not god or the devil but it is cool. one of the only things i really hated about persona 3 was the fact it tells you that you have a year but you dont you have until the end of january which is only about 9 months and as a warning persona 4 is even worse for this as you only have until xmas. The storyline to persona 3 is basically that they are trying to find out what the hell is going on with the dark hour, the shadows and personas, while making sure that the shadows dont kill people/give them apathy syndrome. With the social links most are quite interesting and I never had a problem with the girls getting mad at each other thing (guess i just got lucky) on both persona 3 and persona 4 my character had like 5 girlfriends at once.

Persona 4:
As a warning this game is very sexual for the first part of the game, not sure why though. There is no tower in this game.

Overall: I think what attracts people to this series is because its so different to other rpgs. It is one of the few rpgs that says “fuck not offending people” and goes ahead and has as much sexual content and swearing and evilness in it thats needed. Nocturne has some good examples of this, there is a child demon (jack frost) that called me a bastard when I answered a question wrong during battle and then hit me with bufu, when fighting the morie sisters I beat one then went to save before beating the next (I did not realise that I would have to fight them one after the other without leaving the room) and when I went to fight the first one again she said “my, you are persistant, we would make you our slave if we didn't have to kill you” (implied sexually), and then of course there is the fact you can decide to team up with lucifer and beat the crap out of a god. One of the things I really liked about these games was that the storylines were not the usual “go beat up this pretty boy because he wants to destroy/take over the world or has kidnapped someone you love/want to bone” as well as the freedom to have a different ending, all the persona games have 2 endings and nocturne (maniax edition, which is the one you have because you can't side with lucifer in the original nocturne) has 6 endings.

I have not played devil summoner or digital devil saga yet (interesting fact about digital devil saga though is that the main character from nocturne is an optional boss on it and is one apparently one of the most difficult bosses in all of rpgs). Feel free to ask me anything about persona 3/4 or nocturne though.

I had to stop the video about half way through because of the Digital Devil Saga ending spoiler, since I actually plan on beating that game some point in my life. The Tensei games are really the only console RPGs I can play anymore, since all the other ones are either too fucking Japanese for their own good, or have what I like to call DBZ syndrome where the game just drags on into these ridiculous battles and just never want to end. One game that I just stopped playing was Shadow Hearts Covenant, where you'd spend all this time to find out that the final boss wasn't really the final boss and the final boss after that wasn't the final boss, it was really someone that was your ally throughout the game that decided they wanted to turn evil and fight your…or something like that. It just completely ruined a game I was enjoying the hell out of.

Anyway, I got really into Nocturne and enjoyed how unfairly brutal the game was, but for whatever reason I just stopped. I even went as far as hunting down the strategy book for it, which was well worth the hunter (I must have went to 5 Gamestops, back when most Gamestops were Electronic Boutique) and proved to be extremely useful. I also enjoyed the hell out of Persona 3, which again was a game I just stopped playing for whatever reason and just never found my way back to it. I absolutely hated Devil Summoner tho, the battle system was extremely bad and the game just overall annoyed the fuck out of me.

I beat Persona 3 and I will not spoil it for you. x3 I have to admit that I did get a bit annoyed of the whole 'school' thing but oh well. It took me a while but I did beat Persona 3 surprisingly without any cheats, guides, help, or anything of the sort. When I got to the final boss, I thought 'shit I'm gonna lose' and I did. So after leveling up for like a week I finally beat him. As for when you said you can just leave someone behind if they die but the main character cannot, I hate that. One thing I hated a lot about the game was when Death started coming after you when you were in the tower. But I found a way around that. If I wasn't near a way out, if I was trapped, I would move so I was behind Junpei and Death just killed him. It was funny. I would be like “Fuck! Death is coming! Goddamnit, just leave Junpei behind!” It is a great game and I have not completed the second part of P3FES. Yes, everyone, there is basically two games in one. XD

I'm playing Persona 3 on the PSP and it's pretty easy for me. I wish the game had more bosses than just preparing for the boss that appears during the full moon and advance the plot. I'm at a part in the story where I'm just going through summer vacation and not even bothering to level grind or climb the tower and I find out why the bosses are showing up once every month, but it doesn't answer my question of, “HOW WAS THE TOWER MADE?! WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT DO?! ALL IT DOES IS STAND ON TOP OF MY SCHOOL!” I think I've been playing this game for five days and for some reason, I can't put it down. From morning to 4 a.m, I'd play this game spending the majority of the time just being sociable to my classmates and raising my social link levels. That's probably why I play this game because most RPGs don't really give you the whole “being sociable with the NPCs”, and I can also summon the Horseman of Death (he's actually called Pale Rider but he looks like the Grim Reaper on a horse so Death+ horse= 1 of the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse right?).

Sorry I accidentally double- posted.

Oh, and I forget.

Star Ocean 1, 2. Give those a chance. Star Ocean 1 was for Snes, Star Ocean 2 for PS1.

Now, Star Ocean 3 is falling into heavy cliches but it's not so bad, gameplay is the main reason really. I personally dislike the unjust comparisons to The Matrix, as the central philosophy differs heavily (SPOILERS: SO3's underlying end philosophy is, I think therefore I am)

Star Ocean 4 suffers from… Stupid, Stupid story twist. Stupid.

So yeah, SO1, 2, nice enough. But they're more action RPG, so it won't fit well with traditional RPG. Sort of akin to how Tales might be offputting for some.

SO3 is a bit give or take. SO4… Well, that's just sad. Gameplay's alright, but the story was just… bad fanfiction quality.

PS. Beat Nocturne on Hard, true demon ending, damn proud.

Oh and. The spells have been named as such since the first SMT… I think SMT actually came before Pokemon. So technically speaking, you can always nitpick and go “Pokemon copied off of SMT”

I know I enjoy being technical.

Way too many comments for me to look over. So basically:

The spells: They’re mythological or linguistic adaptations from all over the world, fitting well for the huge mishmash of mythology. (Ex: Megido, it’s a fortress though you might have better luck googling Megiddo. I believe it was supposed to be the edge of the apocalypse.)

Side note: Demons is a mis-translation from the original series, which lists all the “Demons” as Supernatural. Just to answer anyone’s curiosity as to why angels and hindu gods are listed as Demons. It’s because of a mistranslation, but Supernatural typically doesn’t sound appealing to most gamers.

Nitpicking: SMT is a selling brand here. Originally there’s only roughly 5 SMT games. SMT 1, 2, If, 3(Nocturne/Maniacs(US)/Chronicle version), SMT Strange Journey.

Megami Ibunroku is the other series, where Persona fits in the whole place. Persona 1 got ported over as Revelations Persona. Persona 2 was never ported, Persona 2.5 was ported as Persona 2: Eternal Punishment.

Persona 3, 3FES, P3P, P4, Digital Devil Saga, Devil Summoner were all misbranded as SMT over here to up sales and make the Atlus made series more easily identifiable.

Though incidentally also caused the ridiculously long title: Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner Raidou Kuzunoha vs The Soulless Army

Oh… damn, didn’t mean to triple post but.

General strategy that works with all bosses:
Cover your ass: Resist Expel/Death (Light/Dark) until you finally get Null. Next priority: Protect yourself from Status Ailments.

Rely on Buff and Debuff

For Nocturne: Focus on Physical. Most bosses until near end won’t be protected against it. Quick hint: Get Tornado. Heavy hitting spell early on.

And yes, when you have a strategy guide, you clutch unto it and it becomes your personal bible.

Now… on to commenting directly to other subjects in the video.
—

DDS. I’d argue that it compares more to SO3. You’d need to know the full story, so that’s a whole spoilerfest theory right there.

Persona, it’s kinda sad that you missed out on the original entries. Personas are basically the metaphysical representation of your ego. The whole addition of nihilism in Persona 3 was… gimmicky, and made it a bit kind of… hard to deal with in a way. (Though personally I just kinda blurred it out of my mind)

Mudo/Hama (instant kill, dark and light respectively) don’t have that low a chance… it’s roughly 40%. Both ways (Yes, you using the spell gives a 40% chance of instant kill)

By the by. It’s okay to dislike parts of SMT games, they’re far from perfect, quite obviously. Persona 3 for exemple is a game I love, but accept as heavily flawed. As to answer your query as to why I love it…

Well, think of a young teenager playing a game where high school kids could defeat supernatural creatures utilising the power of their ego, their identity projected as the image of gods and demons… Damn. Oh and, the original two Personas make better use of philosophy then Persona 3/4.

Over a year too late, but in any case I feel like ranting about these games, and damnit, I WILL.

I have to say, I’m currently playing P3 as I’m listening to this review, and MUDO JUST FUCKING KILLED ME! AGAIN!

… I have no idea how to guard against that fucking spell.

In any case, Devil Survivor actually has a really, really awesome ending. Depending on what choices you make throughout the game you can do any of the following:
1) Join Noaya and becomes the fucking King of Demons and kill off God. Then you become the Lord of the Apocalypse and rule the entire earth, and Noaya’s will just sit by your side saying, “that’s my little brother.”
2) You find the demon summoning server (which is in hell), and the only way to get there is by destroying the barrier between the human and demon world (so you pretty much bring on the apocalypse anyway), and then you can either A) destroy the server (with Haru’s song (which apparently summons demons indiscriminantly because music is the ancient common language)), or B) take control of the Demons, give the finger to both God and the Devil by telling both Noaya and Remiel to fuck off, and use the demons like they’re pokemon to make the world a better place.
3) Join Remiel (and God) and beat up the Tower of Babel (which is this hugely complex data entity that won’t even acknowledge that you’re worthy to fight it unless you becomes the King of Bel in the first place) (yes… that’s right, you beat up a TOWER), and then you become the Messiah and rule the world as the emissary of God.

Depending on what you do, you can either summon Lucifer (yes THAT lucifer) or Metatron (the most powerful fucking angel in existence).

Now I played Devil Survivor (on the ds, btw) just recently when I was in hospital. And when you’re in as much pain and on either a morphine drip or as much oral morphine as I was, you’re so out of it that pretty much the only thing you can do is absently-mindedly grind the fuck out of your characters and demons. The result was that my main character had a magic stat of 35 and could summon every demon in the book (and all my top demons had megidoloan (= most powerful spell. Ever)). But I took option 3 (after realising that if I did I would get the most stats boost and I’d be able to summon the right hand of God if I wanted to play the game again) and that final boss battle nearly broke me. Cause this is how the boss battle lays out (and remember, at each turn you have demons which are constantly summoning minor demons to make your life a living hell):
1) Beat the tower of Babel/demon summoning server (which has melded)
2) Beat EVERY SINGLE BOSS YOU HAVE ALREADY BEATEN IN THIS GAME AGAIN!
3) Beat the entity that is BEHIND the tower of Babel (cause apparently this thing has multiple personality disorder)
And you have to do all this, without a break, without a save, and without a renewal of your HP or MP.

@(*&$*#@#$&%#&@!!!!!!!

I love the Shin Megami Tensei games but the bosses are head-smashingly hard. Still, you get to summon the devil or the voice of god, so the pure awesomeness keeps dragging you back to it (no matter how many times you swear off the games).

Okay, okay, I’m done ranting now.

persona 2 is the best Persona game… actually, it’s two games it’s so good.

Really if your searching for a good RPG game, and i know you like turnbased RPG:s you should really try Skies of Arcadia for the gamecube i think, dont really remember. But its a reeeeeally good game. so check it out. btw Love your work! big fan

Focus + Sukunda + Uzume + Matador = Fucked Matador

I’m trying to obtain my balls of steel by beating Nocturne without a guide. Stuck on a bullshit mini boss that gets four turns in a row. But… I… Can’t… Use… Guide… Makes… Me… Use… Sentence… Fragments!

Another thing about Nocturne, Spoony. The lack of NPCs is kind of the point of Nocturne. Because everyone is dead!.. Though you have a point that there should have been NPCs in the train station in the beginning.

On a side note, I’m a huge MegaTen fanboy, and my birthday is 9/16, and this video was posted on 9/16, and I watched this at 12am on Halloween, and MegaTen is a JRPG series that tries to be horror-ish…

Sleep? I don’t WANT any sleep.

Focus + Sukunda + Uzume + Matador = Fucked Matador

I’m trying to obtain my balls of steel by beating Nocturne without a guide. Stuck on a bullshit mini boss that gets four turns in a row. But… I… Can’t… Use… Guide… Makes… Me… Use… Sentence… Fragments!

Another thing about Nocturne, Spoony. The lack of NPCs is kind of the point of Nocturne. Because everyone is dead!.. Though you have a point that there should have been NPCs in the train station in the beginning.

On a side note, I’m a huge MegaTen fanboy, and my birthday is 9/16, and this video was posted on 9/16, and I watched this at 12am on Halloween, and MegaTen is a JRPG series that tries to be horror-ish…

Sleep? I don’t WANT any sleep.