Shin Megami Tensei Series Review (9-16-09)

i really liked P3 and P4 for their likeable characters, interesting plots (even P3 where the question throughout the game is how are we gonna beat the destroyer of worlds?) and of course, the fantastic personas you can create and combine. it's really cool how all the personas are based off of myth and religion. and i think it's even more awesome how the most powerful personas are the judeo-christian ones. pretty cool how helel or beelzebub is fighting with you and the awesome moves that they get i.e. Victory Cry which frikin completely refills your HP and SP at the end of battle!!

Ironic that I watched this one right after beating Star Ocean IV. I like the gameplay and new item creation system, but almost everything else is laughable at best.

Late reply, dude, but listen up.
P4's biggest issue is that there really isn't a formidable final boss. Also, the game's bosses are pathetically easy (Power Charge + any Med. Physical that hits more than once = dead boss). Nyx, on the other hand, is a motherfucker of a boss (13 forms). Btw, why are so many people running into the Insta-death thing? By level 65 I stopped caring about those spells hitting the MC, since I always had protection. Just fuse the Justice Arcana or something.

Here's a short rundown:
P1: Haven't played. Get the PSP one.
P2 IS: Canon homolust, best story, guitar case guns.
P2 EP: Continuing the past game's awesomeness.
P3 FES: Minato is Jesus. Awesome OST and atmosphere. Best Devil and Tower Social Link.
P4: Best Gameplay, Naoto is fucking amazing.

Devil Summoner is like if you mix SMT: Nocturne with Tales Of...-battle system. Also, every demon (with or without gender) wants you. In that way.

Have you ever heard of shin megami tensai online? It has microtransactions but not even close to the degree of D&D online, it is really action based for an mmo. The combat is nothing like wow, and the stuff you buy in microtransactions are weapons that are hardly needed, the game is fairly skill based. Just wanted to put it out there, in case your interested.

Id like to hear you give a follow up to this

As for your comment about P3 on why the game ends when the MC dies, that's because of plot reasons. It doesn't make sense until the end.

I wuv the True Goddess Reincarnation series. First, the main series;

SMT1 - Fun, but pretty short and on the easy side. If you can get your hands on it, I'd recommend it.
SMT2 - See above, but it's a bit longer and harder.
SMT3 - DEAR GOD THIS GAME IS INSANELY AWESOME, FUN AS HELL AND FUCKING HARD AS BALLS. IF YOU CAN GET IT, I SERIOUSLY RECOMMEND IT. ONE OF THE BEST PS2 GAMES EVER MADE.

Next, the main spin-off (i.e. the one every one knows): Per-So-Na.

Persona - Get the PSP version if/when you can. The original version is pretty crap to be honest.
Infinite Sin - Honestly, never played it.
Endless Punishment - Extremely awesome, but can be a grindfest near the end.
Persona 3 (FES) - Fun, epic OST (I dont really like Rap, but I find myself singing along to Lotus Juice for example >.>), and even on Hard, it's - honestly - very, very easy. Even without NG+, Armageddon/Victory Cry combo etc. it's a joke. Aside from the last boss. But fuck that thing. 13 forms. And the "good" ending isn't worth it. In fact, to spare you the trouble of fighting Nyx: Minato dies.
Persona 4 - Haven't played yet.

Now, for Digital Devil Saga - my preferred duology;

DDS1 - Fun, little tricky at times, the Macca grind is really fucking insane, the main character from Nocturne is an optional boss and he is the hardest fight ever created for any JRPG. Waaaaay too short though.
DDS2 - Makes a few interesting decisions, but the regular battle theme is the best battle music I've ever heard. Still a bit too short, but it explains everything DDS1 didn't. That is, everything.

Devil Survivor - Best. DS. Game. Ever.

Raidou Kuzunoha (both) - Deviate from the regular formula, but are pretty good for action games.

Imagine (the MMO) - DO NOT PLAY THIS. IT FUCKING SUCKS.

Giten Megami/Last Bible/Devil Children (3 seperate games; all side stories) - Never played.

The SMT series is by far my favorite RPG series of all time, i just love these games. Maybe it's the epic story lines, maybe it's the fact that this series may be the only RPG series of this day and age that is actually challenging, maybe it's my fascination with religion and mythology, but i just love this series. The battle system is simplistic, but it works, and you can really feel progress as you delve further into the games and the stories just suck you in. I agree that the SMT games tend to fight dirty, and can be downright cheap sometimes, but i love them all the same, Nocturne being my favorite by miles.
The Persona series i didn't like quite as much... probably because there just isn't that much RPG content when it comes right down to it. Yeah you got your big ass tower, not to spoil anything, but that's all there is outside of a few monthly events. I didn't really care for the social sim, which can take up a lot of your time. I did play Persona 4 and it's basically the same thing, but with even more emphasis on the social sim. Still, the main plots of both games are very good, which you can always expect from the SMT series. Just turn off the voice acting >_>
I also ignored Devil Summoner for the same reasons you did. Zero appeal to me. Although maybe i'm missing something...

But Nocturne and DDS, they just don't come as good as this.

i crack up every time you say bufu:
i'll just recommend the bufu scene from "How High"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjzGr1EFrI4&...
it's awesome

I've been interested in the SMT series for a while now, and finally ordered Nocturne off of Amazon... Maybe not the best idea considering what I hear about the difficulty, but out of all of them, it intrigued me most. DDS and P4 are my next picks if I like the series. I'm hearing mixed opinions on the difficulty of Nocturne, but I'm going to try it without a guide for as long as I can hold out.

I've never been a big RPG guy, but Atlus hasn't disappointed me with their games yet, I really like the art style and overall weirdness of the SMT series, and I need a good console RPG anyways. I got Xenosaga Episode 1 almost a year ago, and I still haven't even touched the game. I heard it was good (Compared to its later installments anyways) but it just didn't strike me as interesting. I've been rambling long enough so I'll leave it at that. Thanks for giving some insight on the series Spoony! I appreciate it.

Well Persona 3 FES is a decent game and I love the extra chapter at the end. Yet Persona 4 is way better. They definitely have a better plot and hook for the players. The social interactions are better pulled off and the balance between friends, school, and dungeons feel better to me. You should try it.

When I saw Persona 3 FES on Paw's Top 9 Countdown, I felt very compelled to play it. Luckily a little over 2 weeks ago I found a copy of it at GameStop... I have been playing it everyday since. It has good music, a good story (Once you get to it as Spoony said), good cutscenes (Anime haters will argue this, HOWEVER you have to admit: they didn't use in-game, or CG; they took the path less traveled) The reasons I love the game are 1) It's controversy, and how it just says, "Hey Christianity, not so high and mighty now are you?" Especially in the class of the magic teacher who just talks about how christianity and paganism, and the such are one and the same and they all stemmed from the same BS. THAT BEING SAID, even though I am aethiest I'm not the kind of aethiest that wants to rub it in the face of every single bible thumper I meet, I don't care what your views are or why. But still for a video game, that's pretty fucking ballsy. 2) Persona LITERALLY means 'mask' you make friends and change yourself according to their liking. That is a persona, you put on the mask that the person you are with likes. The monsters, the 'personas' ARE your masks, the anger, the beauty, the malevolence that you force when with different people. It's like the game is a metaphor for our sociology...... Or I thought so at least.

I doubt Spoony is the one to spend 70+ hours simply having a fictitious social life without a compelling plot. It only comes RIGHT at the end in P4, the first supposed final boss being a nice surprise, the true final boss being horribly executed.

It's still a pretty entertaining game, but from this Vlog P4 is just not for Spoony if the school life thing got boring for him, because that's pretty much 95% of P4.

Spoony, I have to agree with a few other posts when they say if you like P3 you will love P4. I've played both and I am currently moving my way through P4. Here is the thing: P4 is like P3 with a lot of the frustrations cleared out of it. It almost makes P3 seem like a beta version. That may be a bit harsh and perhaps I am over selling P4 but I honestly love this game. The bad news is that if your main character dies you still take the auto-loss. I cannot defend this in that it seems like an interesting concept and yet as soon as you lose a major piece of your progress frustration levels heighten. P4 is a little better because you can usually escape battles and then use a "Go-home" to escape the various dungeons and then when you return you can start off on the last level you were on so you are less likely to leave and save preventing the huge loss. You do still go to high school but it is far less tedious since often the game sims you through the school day and starts you off right after school has finished. A couple of times the game asks you a question while at school but it is not all the time and it boosts knowledge. The story is amazing. It grabbed my attention right off the bat and has kept my interest. The characters are well done and are definitely good for a laugh. Now that I have talked up the game a bit......I have some bad news. In the game you get to pick your responses which is great however, there are some responses that you needs certain attributes (like courage) you need to be advanced to pick that response. This is an issue because a few of them are early in the game and there is no way you could be advanced enough to pick that option meaning in you want to say those thing you have to play through the game twice. On the second time through you get to keep all your stats which gives the game decent replay value. You finally get to say the things that you wanted to, to start with. This flaw doesn't come up all the time so it isn't a game killer. If you do play more you should do a review so I can hear what you think.

Being that im a newb at most of the RPG's put out im not really that excited about playing them when they first come out. but i have picked up a few title and the ones that stick out are the vanillaware games Odinsphere, GrimGrimoire, Muramasa the demon blade. things like that i also reccomend the Lunar series if you can find it although Dragonsong is slightly dissapointing..

Yeah I'm going through Persona 3 FES right now. I'm still doing the Journey a 2nd time just to get all the max social links. I'm basically using a gamefaq guide verbatum, and I still think it messed me up somehow.

Once you figure out what the words and symbols mean the battles aren't that tough, although they can still be cheap unless you stock specific items (the homoculus stops instant death on main character).

Funny thing is that yesterday I bought my fourth Shin Megami Tensei game as well as the P3 guide. My brothers bitch about me getting them, but I really like avoiding bad endings so they can shove it. Anyway, I'm in the middle of playing Persona 4 and Devil Summoner. I agree that the real time battle is really irritating in that game though. I always have to have a demon that has a healing power because you just get bombarded with all this shit until it fucks you up and you die. And then you teleport and get eaten by spirits? I bothers me. Other than that it's interesting enough to have kept me playing. I'm at the end but I haven't played for months. OTL I tend to do that though. In Persona 4 I am also at the end but I'm still playing. This has everything to do with the story line. It's really good and for me it makes me continue playing because you are constantly wondering who the killer is and how it will end. The dungeons are really cool too, because they are all different and fun rather than just the tower. Some of them are a bit strange though. You'll understand what I mean when you get to the bath house... Again you are doing the high school thing and Social Link events, but I kind of like those. What was great about the whole killer thing was that you are wrong for most of the game and you get to the end and it was kind of shocking to find out who it really is! I'm at the very beginning to Persona 3 right now though, and I think you might visit the school from that game in Persona 4 but I can't really remember. So from what I have played so far from the Shin Megami Tensei series I know that I'll keep getting them when they come out, or when I find new ones, as I did yesterday. I hope you enjoy Persona 4 too, because it's one of my favorites. (And I guess I should really get around to finishing Devil Summoner now..)

STRATEGY GUIDES IS FOR IDIOTS OR AMERICANS.

You dont know a shit about RPG.

As Siriel said the fact there so much content in the game skills/monster/persona...so much different stuff i mean its not just like 1 monster and change the color to make it different that what i like of these game that kinda rare these day to see so many different model of monster...but its same time yeah its got a little down side cause they will use these model on almost all the game but they so cool i don't mind it and there is some different design in all games. I am really big fan of SMT i been playing these game since sega cd oh yeah sega cd lol i bet there not lot of people who know that game cause smt back then was really rare and mostly only in japan like the first devil summoner was on the super famicom. But back to the blog make me laugh so bad when you said its hard but its because its cheap and not fair and its sooo true any monster can kill you. A good example i have was in degital devil saga 1 when you in that giant tower you end up well i don't remember well exactly where in the tower but its was haft way I'm pretty sure the boss was 2 bird and the attacked first and the cast mudo on all my character and IT did work on all of them !!! game over i die on the first turn of my boss fight cause the fucking boss cast death on me ....of course when i try back i put my protection again mudo and they never cast it back !!! for devil summoner i like the game BUT i don't think you will miss much if you skip that one there so many SMT games yes its have lots to give you but in same time if you prefer turn base i don't think you really need to play that one. well anyways ....when i start talking about SMT i cant stop lol.. btw did you try the mmo of SMT i was in the close beta now its open i think the beta over I'm not sure its free game with cash shop but you don't really need it to be able to enjoy the game its the same tactic its kinda like devil summoner where to get demo you tame it like you talk with them hey ! do you want to be my friend lol after that you got the church to fusion them with other and you got a tower that take place of instance and you clean up these stage i would say try it out if you got spare time but better stick with the console game imo

I strongly advise you not to give up on Persona 3. The story (and especially the end) is awesome.
And yes, you can summon Satan. And Lucifer. (There's a difference between the two in Shin Megami Tensei.)

As for me, what attracted me to the game is the sheer amount of skills/monsters/Persona in the game. And also the fact that it was difficult. The mythological side also attracted me.

Spoony, if you can sit through the 2 hour intro, play P4 it's 10x better than P3.

It has multiple unique dungeons, each with their own catchy music, that range from 8-12 floors. They include a castle, a strip club (no naked chicks in it through) and even a parody of retro RPGs. Your friends will only hate you if you act like a total dick in front of them, just like in real life.

Combat is turn based and yes it still uses the same spells but the game tells what they do now. Also, at least on easy, if an enemy finds your weakness it will just turn to another person and attack him/her. Another thing is, once again I've only played on easy, there are only a few enemies that use hana or mudoo spells and they’re not until later in the game and there’s ether special items that prevent it or one of our friends will jump in front of the attack for the cost of draining their health to one. As for the persona summoning, they replaced that gun thing with a card thing.

For the final boss, you fight a major Japanese goddess who, trust me, deserves the ass whooping you and your friends give her. In specking of bosses, most do not have any weakness or strengths against any regular element leaving the ways to beat them more a plenty.

On a final note if you do play on easy the enemies are still hard but manage able for the average RPG player like me, you also get 10 Moon T-something Japanese. They serve as continues. The way the work is if you fall in combat you’ll see a prompt window asking if you want to use them. Say yes and you and your party members will be revived with full health and SP.
So other than what I told you P4 is plays like P3 only more streamlined for the average player. And yes, you can still fuse Satan

Do your self a favor and pay the s-nes ones

I'm attracted to the SMT series since it just has some kind of special charm, sometimes the stories aren't to great but usually the character can make up for that if you really try and get to know them and sometimes the gameplay even if it is really hard can be fun. If you ever do finish P3, a word of warning for you, don't try and play it's "sequel" The Answer since the story for it is really weak, and it takes a lot of the fun elements from the main game and just removes them and in turn increases the difficulty. Persona 4 is a lot better then 3 IMO, the gameplay is more fair for dungeons (it helps that they split them up into individual ones to make it feel like less of a strain) and it's much easier to balance the relationships since they removed the "they get mad at you if you don't spend time with them" element.

It's still instant death if you get element spammed but that comes up less often now, about the only flaws I can name are that while fun it takes a little to long before the game actually "starts" and it's really dialogue heavy at the start. Anther flaw I would have to give it is it's ending, the multiple endings thing was a good idea but the way you avoid the worst ending is something of a pain for someone without a clue as to what to do without a guide.

Actually, I'm that fan of Star Ocean that you just don't understand, Spoony. Star Ocean: The Second Story was the first action-combat rpg I ever played and I thought it was a wonderful idea. In my opinion, it adds a small bit of realism to rpg combat by adding positioning and baiting environmental hazards into combat strategy, as well as completely getting rid of the "Throw your weapon at the opponent, run up to him and retrieve your weapon, go back to where you were and wait for him to hit you" mechanic that you complained so much about in your FFVIII review. My main attraction to Star Ocean, however, is the item creation and combat skill/magic mechanics. I think it is great that a game implemented a system where skills and magics grow more powerful as a character masters the individual skills and spells instead of the sudden leaps of power where your early spells are completely useless 10 hours into the game. As for item creation, it is nice to be able to gather raw materials and make my own items and equipment, and it is especially rewarding that once the characters get good enough at their crafts, they make items and equipment that is more powerful than anything the stores will sell. I saw it as a nice reward where instead of hunting down the super powerful gear, you build up the skills to make it.

I'm not trying to say your opinion is wrong. Everyone has their own tastes and in the end games are all about what you have fun doing. I just thought I would share what attracts players to the Star Ocean series, for those who haven't tried it yet. I have only played the second and third one, and in my opinion the second is much better and still among my favorite rpgs.

Well its a great series. Persona 4 is awesome. The characters are all loveable or you can sympathise with them (well except two you hate). Only problem is the long intro. Also with Raidou give it a chance, its fairly easy. They are some problems which you will probably need a guide to do well at it, but its a fairly good game with a decent plot and its realtime but, they are strategy elements in it... uh think FF7 CC and thats a similar feel, its not that hard to get used to it, grinding to get higher levels is the only problem, and the bit where your body is cursed. Also SMT 1 and 2 you can get fan translations of it for a snes emulator, they are pretty dark.
Older SMT series themes were centred around Law, Chaos and Neutral, all being different beliefs. Like Law being a complete justice scenario, working so that everyone becomes the same. Chaos is making a animal like human world, were its pure survival and anyone pissing you off, kill them and its fine, lose laws for wild freedom. Neutral is kick both the Devil and God's asses and say Humans should care for themselves, or a world where they all work together.

I personally can't say much about Persona 3 or 4, or SMT: Nocturne. I haven't played the more recently released Shin Megami Tensei games yet, though I hope to get around to it. So far all I've played was Persona 1 and 2, and Shin Megami Tensei 1 and 2, but those are incredible games in my opinion, and I'd really recommend trying those.

Shin Megami Tensei 1 & 2 have the plot spread all over the place, but when you get to it, it's amazing. The way your actions will put you on the side of law or chaos is something that I rarely see in JRPG's, and It's a great addition in my opinion.

Persona 1 was good, but the heavy Americanization of the game really ends up hurting the characters and the story of it. Persona 2 is probably my favorite in the series so far, taking out any form of the American themes present in it's predecessor, and having some of the best done characters and stories I've ever seen. This is all just my opinion though.

Spoony, I agree that the "main character dying ends the game" is frustrating. But, without giving too much away, there is a little bit of the P3 plot that might explain that in the gameplay. It's still frustrating, but when you finish the game, you might see the connection. By now you've probably already noticed that there's something just a little different about the P3 main character. Something that might explain why, if he dies, then it's game over.

But that still doesn't explain why the game acts like the other party members just get knocked unconscious when they go down, but the MC dies when he goes down.

SMT NOCTURNE- An awsome game with good difficulty (not to hard, not to easy)

I love gaming and i mean really love, and i like reading walkthroughs and comments to see if people share my opinion about certain aspects of games. And all i ever see about games like nocturne is that they are "too hard" and you need to grind levels to complete it.
You seriously dont need a fucking guide to beat this game, try giving it a little more effort before giving up. I mean youre like 7 year old schoolgirls whining as soon as something dont go your way.
Its really not hard to learn what different spells does to you cause either you have them yourself or you see the status changes next your name or on the screen, why do people complain about this?

Dying is a part of rpgs (or at least used to be)

Im glad there are games like nocturne to give a little challenge like in the good old 8-bit days.

FYI i beat nocturne without having played any of the previous ones and without a fucking guide for retards and i was like lvl 85 when i beat lucifer with no fucking "super demons" like metatron or beelzebub. (damien you suck balls if youre bragging about that). I died maybe 6-7 times and i never grinded any levels cause i consider that cheating.

Strategy guide my ass - thats like taking cocaine before the 100 meters run and then feel good about yourself when winning.
Spoony i love you and i will still love all your videos but you dissapoint me greatly cause i thaught you were hard core.
Oh also no offense to anyone, its just a game right? :)

I've played the SMT series for a few years now and, honestly, they're the only console-based rpgs I bother with. A few notes about some of the complaints:

It's not that hard to tell what you've been hit with or what ability you're about to use. Beside every spell is a neat little description of what it does (ex: Mabufudyne: Hits the enemy party for heavy cold damage). And even if the enemy's casting it and you don't have the description handy, the visual effects alone make it pretty easy to tell what's being cast. And for those that aren't very obvious, usually a little text message pops up (Defense reduced, etc).

Even with those evil foreign words, it really doesn't take that long to figure out the basic translations:
Agi: Fire
Bufu: Cold
Zan: Force
Zio: Shock
Hama: Holy
Mudo: Death
Megido: Almighty
(prefix) Ma: All-target
(suffix) Lo, La, Ma: Mid-strength.
(suffix) Dyne: High-strength
(suffix) Kaja: Buff/enhancement
(suffix) Unda: Debuff

I'll agree that playing through Nocturne without a strategy guide handy is either suicide or requires a world of patience. Even with the guide though, it's more than tough enough to feel highly rewarding when you beat certain portions of it. I know I felt pretty damn good when I was the only one able to beat the ultra-secret-optional boss Lucifer (with a party of Shiva, Beelzebub and Metatron, with only the Demifiend having the pierce ability). The DDS series are both easier and more difficult. The battles are a lot harder, but the skill system is a *lot* better, which allows you to prepare for them much more effectively.

Still, if you want to experience the strong urge to throw your controller through the TV screen, try taking on the Demifiend in DDS1 or Satan in DDS2.

It's really kind of a shame that you didn't get farther than ten minutes into Devil Summoner, because I know you'd like the guy who does your demon-fusing work for you. I agree that the game feels broken, though.