Shin Megami Tensei Series Review (9-16-09)

dude i played 100 hours of persona 3
i loved the characters, as in i actually cared about them. usually for others i f a party member dies in the story, i only worry about the game diffuclty. i actually cared when Shinji died. and when Chidori died. also, the main character gets to be what you want him to be, so its kinda cool.
also, the personas (not demons) have historic al backgrounds, and i like that in a game.
oh, one more thing, after the ending of persona 3, i felt depressed for a week. no joke

There are two other SMT games that you can look into. One is Devil Survivor for the DS, which is an Strategy RPG with turn-based combat and the demon fusion system which is much more easier to use compared to Person 3. The other is the Persona remake for the PSP. Don’t know too much about that one, though.

I haven’t read through all the comments but there’s probably at least someone who’s mentioned it but the whole “social link” system is pretty much similar to some Japanese Dating Sims. Not all of them have all the time management elements Persona 3 & 4 have, so I’d say its most like the ones that do (obviously). I’d say its handled much better than a PS1 game called Thousand Arms which was the last attempt I can think of to bring an RPG with Dating Sim elements to the US.
Persona 4 is a pretty good game-there IS a “cute animal mascot” character, but the way he “evolves” as a character is actually quite interesting. I’d also agree that the plot is much more straightforward but it does tend to feel a bit formulaic and sometimes you feel like you’re figuring out a lot of things before the characters do-but there’s still a good number of surprises. I will say that I didn’t like the “second ending”, for one you have to know EXACTLY the right combination of dialog choices to get to it (fortunately I had the strategy guide), but for another thing it’s basically a total rehash of the first ending thematically-and it starts to feel repetitive and EXTREMELY pretentious-it’s like okay, I get it already-I see the message you’re trying to convey! The funny thing is I can’t quite even remember what the message was despite the fact that the game was obviously trying to pound it into my head. lol
I have to say I kinda agree about Eternal Sonata, I kinda liked it but when that one character was killed, it was like we knew her for only a short while in the game, and it’s being all dramatic and FLASHING BACK TO EVERY SCENE SHE’S BEEN IN IN THE GAME, even the ones I’d JUST SEEN A FEW MINUTES AGO!! WTF?!! Everything up to that point was kinda alright, although I’ll say the learning curve is pretty terrible. You can get way too much money from taking photos of monsters and I guess they try to counter that by only allowing you to carry so many items into battle-but when I reach certain boss fights I find that I just don’t have enough potions to keep my party alive so I end up trying to grind my characters up to a high enough level that they have enough health and attack power to survive the battle. I got to this point on a pirate ship or something and it seemed like no matter how far I leveled my characters we still all got killed-thankfully I just rented the game so I ended up returning it.
Anyway, back on the subject of Persona-I should note that the original game is being re-released for the PSP with a new localization so it’s not the “USA-ized” game that came out on the PS1 way back when. Also, there are actually two Persona 2 games and only one (Eternal Punishment I think) came out in the US, the other was called Innocent Sin (which is referenced in P3 as an MMO I think) and I think there’s a fan translation floating out there on the Internets although to play it you either need an Emulator or a modded system.

The mudo and hama spells are not really that bad, if you have the “voodoo doll” item it will take the hit for you, plus in persona 4 your guys will also take the hit for you (you need to raise their relationship level tho)

The real problem is that you can only use 1 amulet (plus it takes a while to find useful elemental protection ones) so you cannot protect yourself other than using a protected demons which you cant really “level up” fast enough to save them from becoming obsolete so you are forced to fusion them making the chances of having the right demon at the right time pretty low, then add that to the fact that most monsters in P3 (and some in P4) can kill you in 1 turn if they use your weakness, some in P3 can even kill you in 1 turn as long as you dont have resistance to that particular element

My main complain about the whole Shin Megami Tensei series is the freaking fusion randomness, i get that if you were to be allowed to choose the inherited powers they would be overpowered, but at least let me choose 1 or 2 and make the rest random!!, every freaking time i want to fusion a dude/dudette/thingy i have to reroll them 500 times to get a power combo that doesnt suck (and it gets even worse as the game goes on and you use more demons in fusions, demons have more powers and you start finding really useful spells that become must-have in fusions)

Here is an advice to avoid the save point and the difficulty problem, if you have at least a mid-range dual core with a low to mid range 3d card, play these games in the ps2 emulator with savestates (you can save anywhere, anytime, as many times as you want in as many slots as you want instantly, you just cant beat that), they work almost perfectly, i finished most of them with the emu, they are perfectly playable with only a few graphic glitches here and there, the Persona ones work specially well

I’m a Star Ocean fan; I agree that the latest game is pretty bad, though. It honestly doesn’t feel like a Star Ocean game. Even the third game is stretching it. I say play the 2nd one if you haven’t (an enhanced port was released on the PSP awhile ago), that’s my favorite of the series. mainly since you can pick and choose which party members to recruit and the dialog changes accordingly (I hated how you had a set party in the latest game, which is kind of the opposite of what Star Ocean was known for)

Personally I’ve only played SMT 3 and Eternal punishment. I haven’t finished ether of them….but looking back I REALLY wish I’d beaten Eternal punishment because there are some really incredible things about it. For instance, there’s this whole mechanic about rumors becoming reality. Now that doesn’t sound amazing, untill you think about what that suggests. How damaging, how damning can it be if any rumor could become real simply by enough people hearing it? It’s demonstrated early in by two things, one rumor being that if you dial your own phone number on your cell, you can ask this joker serial killer to kill someone of your choice, and later at a bar called the parabellum which you turn into a weapons shop by spreading a rumor to that effect. Quite something to think about as both seem to work. then at a certain point you seem to take down the Joker. All seems well. Then a new rumor spreads, that anyone who called the joker….will become him. And one of your party members who is currently unaccounted for might have called him. Unfortunately this is where I left off, but seriously some amazing stuff in there.

Okay Persona 4 improves a LOT over Persona 3 in many aspects. Social links can no longer be reversed just cause you are dating multiple women. Also you’re stats raise more quickly. You still have some problems like unskippable cut scenes. (Please stop it Japan.) However it is hard to say whether or not it’s a better game. It’s so radically different plot wise from 3 or Devil Survivor (the DS one) that it’s almost jarring to see people laughing for a change.

sadasd

u should try smt online its free

@Ithxsmir Actually, FES is Persona 3 plus some extra elements (extra costumes and scenarios I think) PLUS a whole new scenario that acts as a continuation. I’m guessing Spoony is aware of this and has been working on playing the main scenario first. I’ve also heard the second scenario is REALLY difficult, I haven’t had a chance to get to it since I haven’t finished the main one yet.

The SMT games are fricking awesome, but there are things about it that can be annoying and there is a steep learning curve. I’ve beaten all the Persona games and I actually beat Devil Summoner 1, currently playing through Devil Summoner 2. I have Nocturne and I’ve played DDS, but I haven’t finished those ones.

Hey Spoony! I actually went through all of SMT without a guide, every monster combination I did was just by chance. I confess though all I did was consistantly grind straight for about 30 hours in the subway then other places til I was high in the 70 or 80’s levels. Then I made it to the last stage aka hell I think. And since getting my ass kicked constantly by not even bosses, I gave up. I couldn’t do it anymore. I haven’t picked up a console rpg since, i’m done with them.

Nocturne is quite a hard game, but I can think of one that beats it. Wizardry 4 for the Apple 2. Without a guide you have no hope, and with a guide your hope is incredibly slim. It has to be the most brutal RPG ever devised. It will honestly set you against an invisible minefield where you literally have to throw yourself at the mines on repeated play throughs and hand draw a little map of where all the mines are so that you can find a path to get through them. It has random encounters, but you don’t get any experience points from killing them. You get stronger by getting to the next level. The fights are not only brutal, but you can’t grind and level to make them any easier. Seriously, if you want to try the most brutally hard RPG ever made, get an emulater and just try to play this game.

Peronaly, I have never played any of the smt games except P4. And it is one of my favorite rpgs so far. But players beware, even though the game is awesome it ‘treats’ you to a three hour intro/beggining of almost solid story. Luckly it gives you some breaks in there though so you can acully play for a change. The one thing about it that I dont like is a big thing through the series. Even though I played it on easy there was not a single boss after the first two that i can remember beating without dyeing at least once and having to do some grinding. And currently i still havent beaten the final boss even though I’ve been hacking away at him for a few days. My sister and I were playing it non-stop for the first month of summer.

Yeah, the game Okage has the same problem with the game being over when the main character dies too.

[insert first time poster, long time listener line here]

I agree with everything supalime has said about the game, why they like it, and their comments about P4. Persona 4 fixes many aspects I found aggravating in Persona 3/FES. In reference as to what I like about the SMT series [in addition to supalime's comments], I personally love the mythology aspect of it. Being able to summon, create, and see various figures of Greek, Indian, and biblical mythology is something I’ve always loved about the game. I’ve played Persona 3, Persona 3: FES, and Persona 4. I want to play Nocturne and Digital Devil Saga as well one day.

As for your complaints of the main character dying = game over, the instant death spells, etc were frustrating factors I disliked about the game made me want to break the controller in half. When the game goes along well, it’s very rewarding and when something bad happens to you, it’s usually BAD.

I’m not going to tell you to play Persona 4 as you will most likely do that regardless. I will tell you that Persona 4 does fix the problems you have with P3 for the most part. There is a story for the most part which is more than “grind till the next full moon” for half the game. There is no 200 floor tower; instead there are a bunch of smaller dungeons that are actually significant to the story, or at least to the characters involved. They don’t feel nearly as contrived as Tartarus. It’s still gameover when the main character dies which is still bull. It doesn’t even have P3’s justification.

Other than that, watch out for The Answer. I know others will disagree with me on this, but it SUCKS. The story is alright but the gameplay is just soul-sucking. You will miss the social links!

Spoony, where do i begin. I agree. I picked up Digital Devil Saga and Shin Megami Tensei Devil Survivor for the DS. Theres you have said is present in the portable SMT. For instance the first boss you have to fight is an almighty demon lord thing by the name of Beldr. So he shows up and brings some outrageously high level demons with him. You can beat them but he’ll just keep summoning more so it doesnt make much sense. The boss does relatively high damage and has an ability called vampire mist for life drain. Catch is, he can only be hurt by one thing….an item your character has to acquire. Second problem ONLY your main character can hurt him not the two demonswit him or your other teenie bopper groupies all elemental physical and sta effect abilties he’s immune to O_O. Third problem your character dodes maybe a tenth of his hp and his demon buddies can heal him 3 times the amount of damage you can deal with the specific attack that only the main character has. There is a way to win but it relies on exploiting the extra turn system by being resistant to his specific attacks and setting a passive ability that boosts your crit in order to take his extra turn away. didnt need a strat guide just a million tries. AND THATS THE FIRST BOSS. they dont get any easier as your groupies decide to pick fights with the other demon lords and when you get a choice as to whether you wanna fight them or not if you say no you end up fighting gods angels in an attempt to get out. All in all, has teenage dialogue, amazing sense of accomplishment when you finish it……..oh and theres a tower at the end. HARD as hell but at the same time knowing that you can acquire demons like Loki and Thor to fight alongside you not to mention Lucifer and gods angels :P. But what draws people to these games i think isnt just the badass demons that you get or the fact that it puts absurd amounts of power in the hands of individuals like myself who if given the power in realiuty wouldnt know what to do with all of it, but also the earth shattering sense of personal achievement when you get through the game having figured out alot of it yourself or having followed the strategy guide to a T or even having built your personal character to be the baddest as Individual in the world…..and if people think otherwise why dont they just ask god if he’s ready for round two ^_^

Zio
Mazio
Ziodyne
Maziodyne

Hi Spoony! You made me de-lurk because of this lol. I’ve been watching your vids since you were on Youtube and I had to comment on this at least. Umm I love the Persona Series alot more than I should. To me it has a bitchin’ good soundtrack, great and involving characters and story, and game play that makes you feel like you accomplished something when you beat it. My favorite over-all has to be P4 although I do hold P3 fes close to my heart. P4 is like the prettier younger brother to P3. And it does everything better. Oh and quick lil’ tid-bit: In P3 most of the main-characters Persona are straight out of Greek or Roman Mythology, which I love and it explains more about the character’s motivations and personalities. As with P4 they’re more tied in to Japanese Folklore (Trivia: In P4 Yasogami High means 800 gods I believe and it kinda ties into the story.) Oh I’m sorry long post is really long T3T. But I hope you enjoy P4 and the rest of P3 and thank you so much for your funny and entertaining vids. They so make my day ^_^.

yes i want to kill god … he’s a prick

I want to personally thank The Spoony One for bringing the Shin Megami Tensei series more into the public light. Particularly Persona 3. Thanks to you Spoony I was able to sell these abysmal games on Amazon.com for a lot more than I previously could a few weeks back!

Got some extra cash! Thanks Spoony!

I’ve only played Persona 3 FES and Persona 4 myself, but I rather enjoy them and the school.
For me, I can’t do the same thing all the time. So if I’m training for hours on end, I get bored. Same with social links. So I’m glad they changed it up.

Here’s something to look forward to: In Persona 4 you can CONTROL YOUR PARTY. FINALLY. haha. Also, if you get your rank with your teammates high, they can take fatal blows for you. Good luck Spoony!

I played most of those, except P3.

I loved the start of Nocturne, and I met the Matador . . . and decided “screw this for now”. Digital Devil Saga 1 is beaten under my belt, and I’m working on the absolute bonus boss of that game. Who is wiping my entrails all over the Junkyard (the world of that game) habitually.

I would say Digital Devil Saga is a wonderful game to pick up if you like turn-based combat, as the story is wonderfully immersive, the voice acting is quite good (Crispin Freeman, Steven Jay Blum . . . we stop there, and it’s fully awesome) and overall it is a fair and decent game. It doesn’t feel cheap, it doesn’t often resort to cheap effects to make you lose, and you aren’t locked into bad skill decisions as much as Nocturne. Oh, and the tone is VERY different than your average Final Fantasy; this is DARK and you are facing mature themes as you progress – you are presented with unapologetically adult material (I’m not talking sexual/pornographic or excess gore either) and expected to follow. Oh, and the plot twists are all VERY awesome. I haven’t gotten into the second half of the storyline . . . so I can’t attest to “lame final boss”.

(As a note, it FEELS like the story is indeed divided into two halves and two separate games, as opposed to just trying to milk you for another $50 for the second chapter . . . I’m looking at YOU .hack// .. . )

Oh, and since you need some evidence. When in jail, if you go through the right sequence you can get told the Boss’s weakness. But, it’s a bit costly. Another point you are told the personalities of the three sisters, and their fighting styles is dependent on their personalities. Those three do not have weaknesses, par say, but you have to build around crippling their strat. On about half of the bosses, I died atleast once.

And the trick to the Lower Lair is to use super-monsters from the previous level. One level has a demon that Nulls or Reflects everything except one thing. So all you need in your party is a Demon that is Strong or Null against that one weakness. This cuts the Turns on the opposing side by huge numbers.

Really, the core of the combat is making use of the Turn system. You get a set number of turns, an attack that hits a weakness only uses a half turn (a half turn counts as a full turn, but can’t be extended further), an attack that hits a strong eats two turns, reflect and absorb eat all, IIRC. But, there are spells that increase your turn count, or set your turn count to a certain number. So the trick is to get the most attacks in a round while denying your opponent. Planning out a round down to which monster goes last on your list is a huge help as well, as you’ll always want a Half turn up (one created by a weakness hit or pass) when a mod that can’t create a weakness is up. If you are able to consistently plan out your hits, weaknesses and passes so that you can use the spells that reset your turn count to a certain number, then you can easily get over 10 attacks in a round. It’s why a general Dream Team of monsters able to pull off a wide range of chains is so useful. Bosses almost need ideal setups, but with a temple right next to most of them and if you have been monster breeding from the start, it shouldn’t be insanely hard.

Micromanagement on this is a bit extreme, and when added with everything else made it feel like a really deep game. Also, the bare bones story actually feels to tie in well to the game, as you are seeing it from the eyes of your character, learning it as he does, except for a few points.

P.S. There are quite a few ways of making yourself immune to Death Magic, and it’s a shame because to me it feels like it locks that in on your character, removing alot of the customization out of it. But with Null or Reflect Death by either a Spell or natural selection makes that issue go away, in fact it makes it a strength. Death Magic only really becomes a problem when you have Weakness to it, in which case it almost always hits.

I can’t agree more about Star Ocean, especially the newest one. Who the hell makes a cut scene over 30 minutes long?! That game stretched my patience to the limit and after finally beating it, the game says that there are other endings for the characters. What the hell is the point? The hugest problem I had with one the character’s endings was Crowe. His, Edge’s, and Faize’s endings were just pure bullshit.