What can change the nature of a man?
(Anyone who gets this joke is officially a hardcore old-school gamer and probably very lonely.)
Hehe, was actually thinking of trying this game lately
I don’t get it.. is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Also: a hip talking skull that only tells you half-truths!
P.S. – Don’t trust the skull.
I don’t get it at all. I haven’t played it either.
Ahahaha, aaaaah… Last thing i expected to see.
On a sidenote, the game in question is brilliant.
Main reason why I’m watching you is that you’re the only “entertainer” who has played PC games and thus have some perspective to say for instance what is a good game.
Anyways, Planescape: Torment, best CRPG to date. There’s a cheap rerelease on DVD available from amazon.com.
No, don’t get it.
Planescape:Torment is FINALLY getting some recognition! First Yahtzee, now the Spoonster!
To everyone here: Find This Game. Play This Game.
I always answer “death.”
And yes, I am very lonely. But my consoles don’t judge me.
Brilliant. People who played it will get it.
Ahh good old Ravel. It’s got to be the most memorable quote from Planescape, and of course leads up to an epic boss fight.
And of course Nameless One being dragged into the whole mess…
Thanks for bringing this old classic back to light, Spoony! I gotta dig up my copy of this game now. Thanks alot.
@ Daniel Angehult: Agreed. This was one of the most addicting role playing games I ever played. Everyone should try to find a copy of this and play it. The story for it was brilliant.
Not that i’m complaining, just found this funny. (i’m glad to suffer through these it they keep spoony on the web)
First there is 30 seconds of ads before the video, then we have the intro-text with overlay ad that is there almost the whole video. After that, finally, the 5 seconds of content. ;D
To anyone who hasn’t yet played it: Give it a try if you can find it somewhere! One of the best RPGs ever made story-wise.
Oh, and Steven Seagal is on the right track… torment can change the essence of a man.
I got it and I’m not even that old!
I would like to add that PS:T “getting recognition” is a bit odd thing to say… since it has one of the strongest cult followings around… and “people” generally do consider it to be the best in game writing ever. And one thing to remind people of, use fan patches, they improve the experience a lot (higher res etc.).
Yeah I love this game, I have it installed on my comp right now. Planescape and BG2 are two amazing games. And The Nameless One doesn’t want to live forever.He’s been there and done that.
WHO WAAAAANTS TO LIIIIIVE FOREVEEEEER!
I love you forever for using that song.
The hours I spent hearing that music…
PS:Torment, the only game where I talked the end boss into ending it all. Glorious.
30 seconds of ads for a shitty car, for 5 seconds of content. I’m not sure the tradeoff was worth it. I know Planescape was well received and takes place in… was it some variant of the Forgotten Realms worlds? But have never played it. Should try and find a copy.
In other nostalgic news, I finally pieced together a copy of the old AdLib Music Jukebox that came with my very first AdLib card and had glorious CGA graphics and FM synthesized music.
Planescape, is, in my opinion, the best RPG setting if you want to go esoteric and magickal. Just as an illumination, the whole universe is held up by the Chaotic Evil and Lawful Evil demons kicking the shit out of each other.
Ok, I get the joke, AND I am old school gamer… and very lonely… Damn you Spoony! DAMN YOU!
Was it belief ? I don’t really remember.
Haha, I thought about PS:T when I saw a review of that film.. there wasn’t any real answer though, Ravel just wanted to hear *your* answer.. crazy bitch.
Also: yes, I’m lonely, thanks! :D
Those haunting words as you watch the ending sequence, knowing you’ve completed one of the best games, if not the absolute best, of all time. Ah yes… I think it’s about time I replay this for the billionth time. Always something new to read and discover.
W00tz0r: I still think that the ultimate answer is regret. You have to regret things, IIRC, to get onto the Plane Of Negative Energy (which is easily one of the best concepts ever, apart from the entropy siege tower).
Be an old school gamer or very versed in vidya memes and history.
… Yanno, a long-running LP of this would be kind of awesome, Spoony. Just sayin’. As an Ubuntu user, I’ll never be able to play it myself (:shakes fist at WINE:) and you could expose the awesomeness of a good classic to all the folks who aren’t in the know about it.
Thank you Spoony! now I got motivated to pick it up again.
Not quite what I’ve expected, but in a good way. Epic game, liked it way better than BG or any CRPG. Great music choice for this vid. Steven Seagal as Ravel lol, also the epic answer, but i don’t quite remember this one from the game :>
Hardcore old and ronery but quite happy I’ve got opportunity to play PS:T :D
ProTip: click on advertise while it’s playing to open it in new window, close that new window, enjoy TSE, repeat with every blip video to skip the ads.
tempted to play planescape, but at the same time I also had no idea what the joke was.
Planescape Tormant is a fantastic game who go all arounfd on this question…. nice
I got it, and I never even played the game.
Planescape : Torment is the best RPG ever. And so is Planescape (the tabletop RPG). Where else would you meet a chaste and prudish Succubus ?
Updated my journal.
Endure. In enduring, grow strong.
Gee, I had hoped you’d celebrate its birthday. ^__^
To people stating this is the best CRPG: No. As a CRPG it sucks. As an adventure inside a CRPG engine it’s awesome. Although I always say it’s just a cursed book, transformed into a computer game. Which will never get kissed/kicked at a wall.
Wow, I guess I´m a really lonely old-school gamer now. :D
The Queen song made my day even if I didn’t exactly get the joke. Queen is one of the best!
“what dose it take to change the essence of a man?”
“Time… to Change.”
“Not good enough”
I must be a sad bastard because I do get this joke…not only do I get it… I actually bought the game at retail when it was new… One of the few games I ever come back to replay atleast once per year.
Wow talk about being “on deadly grounds!”
Yes, I get your point, but what is the most defining quality of an RPG that they should be ranked by?
Many people like JRPGs although they’re just bad anime series in bad Wizardry engine clones. And saying that the Longest Journey is the best adventure game could be countered that it’s the best story/writing/characters/atmosphere in a point and click adventure engine.
Best game ever
Old school and hardcore (and lonely)? So very true…
Buy the game people, it’s better then Baldur’s Gate 2, it’s still better then Dragon Age Origins.
And of course all hail the spoony one, may the experiment never end.
Great game, though also talkiest game ever. I’m pretty sure I asked where a tavern was once and got some peasant’s life story. Very well written, but sweet Jesus.
Well… yeah, this is the main question in the whole game (after “the who the fuck are we, and what the fuck are we doing here?” question).
But for the true gaming experience you should put in a giant wall of text.
Dragon Age doesn’t even play in the same league. Comparing the king of CRPGs with this crappy game could easiely be the 11th sin. Tedious combat, a world without a soul, boring characters, filled with the oldest fantasy-clichés you can find. Wrap this all around the basic LotR-story, and you have Dragon Age.
Most overhyped game of this year.
Wow, Brakiri, try to sound a bit more nostalgic! You’re not nostalgic enough!
Funny, I just started re-playing this a week ago. Also I’ve repeatedly noticed what looks like a Planescape rulebook on the shelf in the background, so I *knew* a joke like this was inevitable. And, yes, I am very lonely, thank you.
I got this joke, and while I may be old school, I’m not lonely! HA!
I actually found out about this game many years after its release. Yes, I was sheltered as a kid. :(
Planescape: Torment is a gem of a game. Not perfect, mind you, but very good at what it does.
@Brakiri – you call DA: Origins crappy? Wtf is wrong with you, what makes a good/great RPG game to you?
I loved LOVED the Baldur’s Gate series, and I went and bought Torment, although I couldn’t finish it, I likes my DnD but this game was for a niche, but to call it the King of RPGs is silly. BG games (and Dragon Age) have epic sweeping stories combined with combat, whether you like the combat system doesn’t matter, along with your opinion.
Oh and I love the old Dark Sun games, they kicked ass and get no love either, so it’s not like I’m a caveman when it comes to RPGs.
Hahaha ah, Ravel’s famous question… actually Ravel was really Steven Seagal in disquise. And after that clip Steven separates the mortality from that dude… :P
There are no games like this today… Torment was almost like a book/game hybrid. BTW if you’re going to play it, i recommend using couple of mods found at spellholdstudios website. Makes the game much more playable.
Please re-release Planescape: Torment so that it’s compatible with 64-bit Vista and has mouse-wheel support.
That is all.
That is to bad you didn’t finish Torment. Torment has a sweeping epic plot, in fact its more epic then Baldur’s Gate as it goes across the entire Multi-Verse while Baldur’s Gate is stuck on one planet in one plane. The entire purpose is a character (who has the silly cliche of amnesia) trying to discover who he is, what he is, and why he is. The characters he meets and interact with feel more deep then the characters you meet in Baldur’s Gate (though they did put this feel into Baldur’s Gate II but it doesn’t count because it wasn’t out before Torment). On top of all this Torment is one of the few games I can go back and play and find something new (Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II though fun I have a hard time replaying them). I don’t know if I would claim its the King of RPGs but it did raise the bar for what I consider a good RPG to be.
As for Dragon’s Age; Its a good game its fun but its no Torment. I enjoyed some of the plot elements but most of the stuff you could see a mile away. Its another game I’m having a hard time wanting to play through a second time because of the yeah been there done that weeee get to do it again feeling (though I can’t complain to much the first play through did last 50 hours and like I said was fun).
I didn’t get the joke but my inner Queen fanboy approves of anything with Queen in it so huray!
Pff. What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets.
(Yeah I didn’t get it.)
I don’t see why people are comparing Torment to Dragon Age. Bioware and Black Isle/ Obsidian games have always had completely different approaches to RPGs. Bioware games from KOTOR-on have all had the same basic story structure and made an interesting story over how it plays out, with an emphasis on popcorn-entertainment-style fun over any real depth of storytelling. The only connection between the comparatively deep stories from Obsidian is main characters waking up in unfamiliar surroundings and having to find out what’s going on. Plus there are usually no forced romance plots, which they never pull off half as well as Bioware. What you get instead of sweeping epics (except in NWN2) are more personal stories exploring elements of love, faith, duty, etc.
My point is, why would you compare two games that aren’t even meant to be similar? Making either one more like the other (with the exception of updated controls for Torment) would only weaken them both.
I’m such a nerd. I immediately recognized the beginning music as Deionarra’s Theme from the game.
That’s a rather stupid reason to declare Torment “more epic”. Some dimensional travel doesn’t automatically make a plot more sweeping or legendary. It’s all a question of presentation.
What really struck me with PS:T (I’m starting to remember a whole lot about this game now) was when near the end, Morte confesses that you have made this journey may, many, many times. Up until then, it was, for me, something of a final showdown, I now gather everything I knew back then, and now, I am ready to sail forth and conquer myself, or whatever.
And then the skull tells you that you have made this exact thing many times. The realisation that my character, the nameless one, might be eternally stuck in this process of redemption-rebirth-sin-redemption was, well, a very heavy one. Oh, and the end is fucking brilliant. There is no redemption, no absolution, only penance.
Anyway, yes, the game is very word-heavy, but I, for one, loathe todays game scene where “long, complex, wordy” are cursewords when it comes to a game.
And the spell animations of PS:T rock. As do the characters (Dak’kon and Fall-from-Grace taking the first place, Morte was always a little too much of a jerk, though the in-joke of “I’m the head of Vecna” caused many a nerdgasms, I’m sure).
Well, why arent you, dear reader, playing this game?
@Lowcifur: It’s been re-released on DVD this year. Look it up on Amazon. As for 64-bit compatability, I’m not quite sure.
I just love how quickly this comment thread is devolving into a Dragon Age vs. Torment flame war. Reminds me of why I hate talking to people so much. Kudos, guys!
Well, I think that the defining characteristic for the term CRPG is the importance of character growth in the statistics, which the flow of PST does not really on heavily. Heck, it’s actually really slight.
I think the appropriate term would be “character stat based adventure novel”, but that’s a little complicated. ^__^
And don’t offend JRPGs (or any genre) in general. There’s as many gems hidden (but not translated because of little attention in their country of origin) as among CRPGs. Up until The Spoony One mentioned Persona (and Megaten in general), I bet few visitors of this site would have known about it, and even in Japan, although the most acclaimed by many critics, it was pretty much the least popular Megaten series until P3.
Much like Interplay’s productions – PS:T is the work of genius, but not well known, and then Bioware’s Baldur’s Gate series became the gripping ‘epic’ adventure and raised the bar for new RPGs.
Ok Planescape….planescape…what can I say about it.
Well I played it back in the day. And hated it! Absolutely nothing about the game grabbed me at all. When it came out I was just getting into D&D and was really hooked on Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. Then Planescape came along and my schools resident RPG Nazi badgered me into playing it. And my first thoughts were “This is Michael Moorcock with all the awesome taken out.”
I tried playing it more recently on DOS-Box and the game honestly repulsed me all over again. I should probably say that I hate casual Planar travel when employed in RPGs and usually throw down a veto on it when it’s my turn to DM. But my biggest beef my absolute biggest whine about Planescape was the absolute lack of immersion it gave me. As far as I can tell the game asks me to play a Wizened caveman type with no memories who i don’t care about.
No thank you give me back my Icewind Dale please.
Thankfully Baldurs Gate 2 came out the year after Planescape and my god did it ever deliver a Suplex to that game. Everything Planescape did Baldurs Gate 2 did much better. In fact I would go on to say that Baldurs Gate 2 is probably (for my money at any rate) the best RPG Video Game ever released. I still enjoy playing it to this day. And to add insult to injury they released Throne of Baal which had a much cooler Plane Jumping storyline than Planescape.
So Yeh Planescape = Good if you like that kind of fol-de-rol “I WANT TO BE WEIRD FOR THE SAKE OF IT!” stuff.
Baldurs Gate 2 = Epic Fantasy Gaming.
For me at any rate.
I should mention. I realise that Planescape came out before Icewind but nobody at my school (bar the RPG Nazi) bought it we all played BG and bought Icewind next.
Planescape: Torment is the best RPG ever. Period. Even without modern graphics, it is the best one. If you have another opinion, then you are wrong. But you have a right to hold a wrong view.
I am not very tolerant in this case I guess. ;)
@egomaniac_42 Thank you so much for pointing this out I have been looking for this game off and on for the past 2 years and couldn’t find it unless it was ridiculously expensive.
wtf, I need to sit through 30 secs of advertisements for 5 s video?
You’re not being intolerant Mistwraith: I wouldn’t even give them the right to think wrongly.
Also, hey! I am not old.
I’m sitting right next to a copy of PT and I keep hearing great things about it. I have tried to play it 2 times, and both times some disaster happens and i don’t get very far (fried HD, etc…), and I’m just too lazy to start over. Maybe third time is the charm (hopefully it won’t be too difficult play on a Win7 machine).
I’m pretty sure this game is awesome. but that doesn’t mean BG2 or DAO are any less awesome :p
Oh yeah, no mean to offend any genre, I was a bit hostile in my output. Meant to point out the lack of “role” in JRPGs, as most of them are very linear with predefined characters. And that the battle systems are mostly flawed.. (and if there are random battles or required grinding to do, it gets painful). I knew about Persona although I have never tried it, I have a friend who introduced me to Disgaea, preferred Xenogears to FF and so on… and I find comedic value in Japanese game writing. :)
I value choice and the ability be the character. And while choosing between being close range fighter and long range fighter is nice and all, but I would like to choose whose side I’m fighting on too. And maybe avoid fighting completely. Something like VTMB had very noble goals and it is simply brilliant (and a masterpiece) even when having obvious flaws. Then again, I think Masq has some good pointers on what is good role playing, even without stats.
I understand why BG and Fallout get all the praise and attention, which they certainly deserve. PS:T isn’t the game if you’re looking for great AD&D combat or want to avoid walls of text (for whatever reason). What makes a good story for me is character development… and in PS:T this character development takes place in a CRPG framework making you go though it personally. But yeah, I guess it’s a bit hit and miss. I’m playing King’s Bounty The Legend now… recommended.
One of the best games ever made. And yes, I got it. Yes, I’m lonely :(
Oh yeah, I always answer “regret”. Even answered that way the first time, without knowing the endgame.
i dont get it…is that good or bad?
seth, a key character in the game asks the ultimate question “What can change the nature of a man?” to the hero. The entire plot of the game centers around that question. It’s left to the player how to answer. Anyway, Spoony’s stated on Twitter that he loves Planescape: Torment before.
Its ludicrous to hear and read, so called video game experts and reviewers, compare Dragon Age with Baldurs Gate 2, just to give the impression they are knowlegable about rpg history.Most of them doesn’t know or even ever heard of Planescape. To say that Dragon Age is the best pc rpg of all time next to Baldurs Gate 2 without even referring Planescape is laughable. Goes to show the quality of todays game reviewers.
ps:I played all 3.Planescape is just plane better. Black Isle(Fallout,Baldurs Gate,Planescape) are the creative genius,not Bioware.
It sounds familiar, but I don’t recall where it’s from. Does that count?
I didn’t get the joke but i am very lonely. does that count for anything?
I’ve always found the Planescape “universe” put me off, but Planescape Torment really grabbed my imagination. And I’m not so sure it’s a good thing to start comparing Icewind Dale 1 & 2, Baldursgate 1 & 2, etc with it. All of those games we worthy in their own way and very enjoyable to play – but for different reasons. PST was a far greater *role* playing based game with one heck of a ton of dialogue, where-as the others (although not dialogue light) are not so and seemed to rely more on battles. Or alteast that’s how I remember them.
One thing that always stuck out in my mind regarding PST is the decision to go with 800×600 resolution and a greater closeup on the characters. I think it paid off as it allows for more subtle detail (even at that res) in body movement and really helps make the game.
Many of those who have commented do not *KNOW* of what they speak.
i didnt get it, so should i be glad or sad? im not sure
steven seagal and queen are awesome either way
Planescape: Torment in 5 seconds is UPDATED MY JOURNAL UPDATED MY JOURNAL UPDATED MY JOURNAL
Wow I can’t believe that little comment would’ve spawned all these answares.
Well having played all three games (Torment, Baldur’s Gate 2 and Dragon Age) I enjoyed all of them a lot, it’s all a matter of taste of course, no sense talking too much about it. I just say if you have not played and finished Planescape torment you defenetly should, it is one of those games you can’t truly figure out before the very end. Stop reading go see for yourself^^
You dont have to be lonely if you get it. Shit, I know girls who loved Planescape Torment. For me it is still one of the best RPGs of all time.
Is it wrong that I feel like a sad and lonely bastard right now just for getting this joke?
I still love and always will love this game.
Planescape Torment is was and always will be the best game ever.
Oh, I just heard about this game a few days ago, I gotta play it when I get the chance. Apparently it’s got the same plot as KOTOR2. Ifso, I enjoy the buildup very much but find the ending very disappointing, like sex with a narcoleptic hooker. The upside is you can just leave without paying her but that doesn’t work into my metaphor very well.
Planescape Torment is the most overrated game in the entire RPG genre, and that’s saying something. It doesn’t matter how good the story is if the gameplay is dull, and Planescape has some of the most boring repetitive gameplay I’ve ever seen. Not to mention that there is practically no depth to character building. You can play a mage, or you can get your ass handed to you and miss out on half the story.
Great vid. If I remember correctly, ‘belief’ was the primary answer that the Nameless One could provide for the question. Torment has one of the best stories in any RPG for sure. I’m not too fond of the gameplay, which is why the game itself is not quite my favorite CRPG (I’d give it to the original Fallout or Deus Ex, if you’d count the latter), but the most epic moment for me is when you use that yellow orb or whatever and the Nameless One finally remembers who he is. The dialog was written incredibly well in that moment and it truly moved me.
For the guy who says that Black Isle/Obsidian tends to delve deeper into various themes than Bioware does, I totally agree. Bioware is good at setting things up, but their stories play out like action movies which have more emphasis on the outcome of a choice than on the issues surrounding that choice.
And for the guy who claims that all JRPGs are weak WRPG clones…yeah, either you’re lying or your experience with JRPGs is sorely lacking.
Easy. A good RPG is something i like to experience. Interesting stories, deep characters, balanced combat, legends, nice quests, mysteries and wonder.
Dragon Age has neither. The basic story is LotR. We already know that one. Andraste is Joan d’Arc.
Alistairs personal quest is 5 minutes long. Most other quests are 90% combat. Tedious, unneccessary combat.
Besides Alistair and Wynne also most of the characters are rather boring, with mundane and uninteresting backgrounds. No torment, no dark secrets, nothing. Morrigan for example is totally overhyped. She has a redemption path within some comversations, but you can’t follow them to the end. After a while this path is closed, and after that she is just the “evil heartless clichee-bitch”. Whats new or interesting about that? Nothing.
Also the codex. Most of it is uneventfull, already known stories, with a few other names for people and places.Clichees everywhere. Its just boring to read, because if you are not a total fantasy beginner, you have read it elsewhere already. Maybe in pen&paper rpg, in other crpg games or in a mediocre fantasy book.
The world is a patchwork-world with LotR-background and other basic fantasy stuff. Its just not interesting.
Mass Effect was patchwork too, but they also integrated a few new ideas, made the characters and the conversations interesting.
Also the story of Dragon Age in told very unspectecular. Most of it is buried under tons of unneccessary and repetive combat. Often just sheer mass, not good tactics. I won’t even get into the level scaling.
Please take a good hard look at Dragon Age and ask you the following question:
How can it be, that a bunch of elves or humans, who have they own small problem, which they can’t even solve themselves, are able to building an army against Saurons dark hordes..oh..did i say Sauron..sorry, i meant “the Archdemon”.
Dragon Age is just a big compendium of old fantasy clichees and a lot of repetitive combat. Nothing more.
Geez! Why did you have to associate such a fun game with such a crappy movie! God, and I’m playing through it for the first time, too! Now I don’t know if I can go back to it!
Oh and to, well, just about all the comments here, why are you all using the term “sweeping epic”?
You keep using that word; I don’t think you know what it means…
As an interesting side note: Ravel makes an appearance in at least one other bioware game. Anyone who played Icewind Dale II might remember the old Lady in Targos with her cats. Word of God even confirmed this, according to Tvtropes, that is.
Hey, I’m a 22 year old chick and I get this one.
“If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear – whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I’ve seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag’s heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me.”
Nope, don’t get it.
I don’t get it proberly becuse I didn’t really get into games until play station came out
Whoa, The experiment remembered my details, nice.
More on topic: Waaaaaah, i don’t get it!
Planescape: Torment is my favorite game of all time and I’ve played many, many games. It was surreal, unique, intelligent and deep. I have not seen another game with conversation trees so intricate or as narrative so innovative. I find something new every time I play.
If you haven’t played this one, find a torrent and give it a try. It’ll be unlike any other story you’ve played through.
I don’t get it. XD
Yes I get the joke, and I have to admit that if you did a Let’s Play of this game, I’d probably shit myself. I’ve been looking for a LP of this game for AGES. Sadly it probably will never be, since it would be a huge commitment of time. Not like it wouldn’t be worth it.
It’s one of the questions that are posed in the game that the story revolves around.
It always amazes me the amount of fanboyism a game like this will create. If you listen to the hype and the amount of people who claim to love this game and who bought it when it came out then it would have been a massive hit and biggest seller of 99. Unfortunatly it was a bit of a flop and tanked fairly majorly in the sales department.
Lets be real here. The story appeals to some people and it was a refreshing change from the fantasy RPG staple.
The Gameplay was dreadful, repetative and sorely lacking in anything even remotely resmbling a challenge. The Amount of EXP you got for mundane no brainer tasks such as talking to certain people was just crap, If you got into the story you could be a dribblling simp and still ace the game. Other RPGs at the time had the decency to give you a feeling of epic odds against your character which made the rewards (see the climax of BG2: Throne of Ball) all the sweeter when you overcame them. Planescape was a walk in the park difficulty wise.
Terra Nova (yeh how many of you have played that little gem?) This game was not it was a fairly good CRPG with massive flaws which became a cult classic. There is are many reasons why many many other CRPGs are rated above it by many many people.
Dear God, I got that joke….
I’m so lonely :<
I preferred the Baldur’s Gate series myself.
But that is a good joke Spoony. Ho ho ho.
I am way too young to be able to get this joke…
@EatTheHumans turn up the difficulty, duh.
I’m very,very,very lonely…
I really loved that game. I picked it up in the ‘Memorial Box’, without knowing anything about it, except that it was totally underrated back then. This is actually one of very few games that surpassed my expectations by far… in fact the only other one that impressed me like that was the first part of the Penumbra series.
That was on Max, And thats not just me complaining about that it’s always been one of the major critisisms leveled at the game.
funny that there is 30 seconds of commercials infront of a 5 second review
I got the joke. My brother bought the game when it first came out and finished it, I watched some of it but I never played it because, well, we were three brothers and we had one computer that could run games decently at the time, so we had to split the time and I was the less adamant about getting time on it. So I couldn’t invest (waste?) a lot of time on it, now that I have my own computer I can do it and I played it for a while, I love it but I haven’t touched it for a while, not out of interest but out of too many interests at the same time.
As to the issue of its worth, I’ll try to be the compromise guy. This is the best ROLE playing game on the computer, as in the story is the most developped, immersive and interesting I’ve seen. The Planescape setting is one that I find extremely interesting, and it fit perfectly the game, because the setting is so utterly large and at the same time weirdly personal, what with belief shaping reality. Contrarily to other “epic” game, the epic quest isn’t to save the world, get the world and kill the big bad that threatens everything. No, the epic quest is figuring who you are and putting an end to your own endless cycle you’re trapped in. Whether you succeed or fail has little to no impact on the rest of the world, you’re just another passer-by in Sigil, the city at the center of All, but it is nonetheless epic in its own way. The issues relating to the quest are deeper than in most games too, and the role-playing aspects actually impact the game, which isn’t true for a lot of other games.
But, in terms of tactical fighting PS:T isn’t good. Battles are more involving and challenging in the BG and IWD series, and for the munchkin in all of us, these games are better. PS:T at times read more like an interactive book in an RPG engine (and IIRC someone has combined all the text of the game, added fluff to it and made it available to print as a book), BG is a real clasic RPG with much more interest given to fighting, BGII was a bit more developped, but I do find the first one disappointing in the lack of integration between story and game. IWD one and two were basically outright hack-and-slash games like the old D&D games on the computer and consoles (Eye of the Beholder for instance… sorry if it’s not the most influential one out there, it’s the one I had).
*for those not wanting to see a rant (why are you here anyway?) stop here*
But I’ll say this about the new crop of RPGs… their graphics are excellent but they’ve become a bit too tainted by the standard videogame habits. Let me explain, in BG and IWD, if you lost a guy, you lost him, you had to revive him in a town or with a cleric and if you couldn’t, well he was gone. It gave a feeling that every battle was important, and you often had to re-load the game, especially early into it, to re-do fight scenes. If you got hit, you didn’t heal easily, you had to be healed by your healers or go to a inn, you could rest for the night, but not anywhere and you ran the danger of facing an ambush that would damage you even more. Nowadays, your guys “die” and just spring back up after the fight, they heal just by sitting down for a while, etc… It’s too much of a videogame and not enough like a rpg and I think the immersion is lost due to it. Maybe it’s more fun for the casual gamer and it increases the appeal of the game to a wider audience, but it gets under my skin. I started playing NWN2 a while back and as soon as I saw that happening (I lost a dwarf character, was about to reload when he just went back up, all fine and dandy…), I just became disinterested.
Anyway, sorry for the rant.
About the commercials before the videos, I found a trick (as in smart action to correct a problem, not trickery) to bypass them fast. Click on them as soon as you’re able, a pop-up will, well, pop up. Close down the pop-up as soon as it opens and you will be able to access the video without waiting for the 30 seconds. It takes me about 2 to 5 seconds doing this.
I’ve never posted on TSE before, despite being a fan.
However, Planescape: Torment brings that out in me. Best PC RPG evar… even though I thought that was a bad answer for Ravel (though that old crone don’t give a shit *what* you say!)
Also, I’m not old. I’m a spritely 23! Now I’m off to reinstall PS:T, because I’m so very lonely.
Wow man. EPIC game!
While I disagree about the immersion thing (lack of appearance customisation appauled me i get a big kick out of creating a version of myself in games) Your comments about the gameplay were spot on. In a lot of ways PS:T was an interactive book…strangely similar to a lot of JRPGs in the way it played out now i come to think about it.
Due to spoony’s description of this video, should I be proud of myself that I dont get the joke?
I get it! One of the best RPGs ever, and I’m as old-school as they come. Luckily, having a gamer girlfriend, I’m not lonely!
In that game, you certainly did need time to change the nature of a man.
Planescape: Torment and Star Control 2… it’s amazing that I had time to go to school, eat, etc. back then.
Planescape is the most intriguing setting in 2nd edition… now if only I could ever succeed in suckering anyone into playing it. Ahhhh, the massive pile of games that I’ll never convince anyone to play. One of my ex’s plucked Star Fleet friggin’ Battles(?!?!) from the shelf, wanted to learn it and actually played the thing multiple times… but Nobilis, carefully placed at eye-level in the bookshelf, remains unloved with naught but a solitary character sheet folded under the cover.
just installed bg and bg2 for the heck of it, so im assuming i should get PS:T?
“Due to spoony’s description of this video, should I be proud of myself that I dont get the joke?”
No, you should feel disappointed that you haven’t played a really awesome game
Oh this brings back so much memory.
Hmm as a fan of Planescape I’d like to point out – No, it isn’t the best cRPG out there. That title should probably go to Baldur’s Gate 2 + ToB. Those games were epic, allowed for decent customization of your character, had AMAZING NPCs that can join you (Minsc, Edward, Korgan etc) and felt really really…well Epic.
PS:T has an amazing story, great dialogue and the bonus of being set into the Planescape setting. It also follows a very close and personal quest of one man and the people he drags down with him. It’s not about saving or changing the world, it’s literally about discovering who you are. And while I love that and a lot of other people love it, I still don’t think that it’s something the “Best cRPG” should be like.
tl;dr – PS:T is an amazing game, but it’s not “The Best”.
it’s really just one of the criticisms leveled at the game by a tiny minority of the already-small number of people who played the game, and in my opinion it’s less a legitimate critique than it is a trojan horse for slapping your e-penis on the table.
naturally some games are easier or harder than others. people can only find the game easy or simplistic in comparison to another game. the people who think they are pointing out a weakness in this game are allowing their expectations to be shaped by baldur’s gate or fallout and tossing out anything that doesn’t match the conception they’ve formed of what combat in a role-playing game ought to be like from playing those games.
having said that, i think “game is too easy” is a worthwhile opinion when it’s followed up immediately by, “for me”. when it’s being pointed at as something that is objectively a design flaw, it’s sounds like game-nerd machismo.
Hahahaha here in poland you still can buy it in the “extra classic”. Yup, this is one of this games that changed my life. Sorry for my bad english ;)
So it’s a PC game? I didn’t even know they had made Planescape PC games. Even so the fact remains that the joke is lost on me unfortunately. All I really know of Planescape in general is from a friend’s campaign I was in for about a year.
Very astute. Maybe I did allow my expectations to be shaped by other RPGs I was playing at the time. But I’m one of those annoying buggers who thinks that if a game is going to be considered good it’s got to be well rounded. Yeh sure a great story can make up for deficiences in gameplay, but then it’s a legitimate to say “Great Story, crap gameplay.”
For me one of the best things about playing a good RPG whether on the tabletop or on the computer is the feeling of challenge. I want to feel like I personally am the one going out there sword/gun/random plot contrivence, in hand and defying all the odds to achieve something tangible. And Planescape didn’t do that. Sure I realised the game was going down a more introspective route but that doesn’t translate well to a computer game In my eyes. I felt like I was just coasting from one beautifully written conversation to the next rather than actually overcoming a challenge. If PS:T had been a book I probably would have loved it. As it is I got bored with it very quickly turned it off and left it on my shelf for a few years untill I hocked it for a DM screen and some new dice.
I don’t usually get irritated by people. Well ok, that’s a lie, but the important thing is I rarely react to being irritated by someone. You, EatTheHumans, are really irritating me. It’s not that you don’t like a game that I like, or think that you think the games of the same genre that were released AFTER it, thus benefiting from the example of its innovation whether or not they emulated it, were superior to it that’s just fine. What annoys me though is you fail to see WHY people like it. So I think I’ll share my perspective on it, which I’m think others may agree with.
You criticize the combat system as dull and unchallenging, (I’m paraphrasing here since for the most part the combat system of the D&D based games that use a fixed isometric perspective tend to have many similarities, one of those being a repetative quality) and at the same time deride a big innovation that Planescape presents as being “just crap”. The idea that you can gain enough experience through conversation in order to level sufficiently to complete the game seems ridiculous to someone who thinks the only way to win one of these CRPGs is by killing everything you see. I can understand that it’s a strange concept to someone who has played a lot of CRPGs, being one myself. But I’ve given it some thought and I think there are people out there who would agree with me when I say it’s not “just crap” to finally provide the player with some incentive to role play. You can still “ace the game” easily enough as a “dribblling simp” who simply bashes every street tought, hooker, guard, monster and quest giver you see as that too is role playing of course. I think a substantial experience bonus for making choices as you talk to people is a really cool idea, because it encourages and rewards you for seeking out the greatest strength of this game, the deeth of it’s world and characters.
Something else that you mentioned touches an important point of the differing philosophical perspective of this games narrative. I’m refering to the “epic odds” which are not as stacked “against you character” as we are used to, or at not in the same way. In many games, you are a central figure in some grandiose struggle to save a city, nation, or maybe even an entire planet. And of course there must be an antagonist who will attempt to stop us in an ever escalating fashion. In these games we are Some One Important, it is what we expect. On the other hand, in Planescape, we are No One. And we are not trying to save anything, expect maybe ourselves or maybe our friends depending on how you want to play it. On the Planes you rub shoulders with demons and fiends you can even hold a rather interesing conversation with a pair of them in a bar. So much is exists and in so many varying degrees of good and evil that it is really up to you to decide who is which, with whom you will decide so, and if you will help people or merely make use of them. For unlike normal CRPGs, this is the journey of one man, and the only gains to be made are for the One, and the only losses are for the One. For the most part the rest of the Planes really don’t care unless you get in their way.
I guess I’m kind of rambling at this point. It’s been two days without sleep so far. Sorry if I came off a little short, and I hope something I just wrote makes sense. One last thing, the gameplay of Planescape is not horrible. It’s only as bad as you make it for yourself.
One the best rpg stories.This was a bit dry….
PS:T sold very well but wasn’t the blockbuster it needed to be to justify the time and money spent on it to their sponsors.
And then there was Interplay’s infamous managers doing their very best to frustrate and alienate their developers even back then.
that was intense
that was entertaining
also to the guy who wished for let’s play of torment, there is one on somethingaweful.com forums let’s play section, I think it’s even finished
I loved Planescape: Torment! However, if the joke was just a play of words from the video clip in reference to “What can change the nature of a man?”, it wasn’t much of a joke since you sort of spoiled it beneath the clip. Unless there was some other hidden meaning, I’m completely lost. -_- Anyway, it was alright if the play on words was the way you went.
I probably would have just shown a clip of a book being thrown down since the game was heavily text based.
I should get around to replaying it.
There is a book “Planescape: Torment” that was released before the game, and it sucks balls.
I 1) get the joke
2) proud I get the joke cause PLANESCAPE TORMENT IS THE BEST RPG EVER!! EVER!!!!
Great, now how about one for Lost Odyssey?
Planescape Torment, what a game! i wish there was a sequal
1999 is “hardcore old-school” now?
I GET THE JOKE, SUCKERS! Or is it the other way around, you should gloat at me? Anyway, I’ve played the greatest CRPG and one of the best pieces of art ever and am proud of it!
Heh. I get it. Kinda. I think XD
PS:T has an excellent story and is one of those few games where being evil involves more than just “HAHAHA DIE PUPPIES DIE”, to the point where doing an evil playthrough can be REALLY HARD D:
PS: Nonesuch, there is an ongoing great quality LP of PS:T over in SA. It’s been going for three years now, and the dude just visited Ravel :p
Crap. Now I want to replay Torment.
Nice one! Although I never really got into PlaneScape Torment, I know enough about it to get the joke.
Yes I am quite lonely!
The part of the game this joke refers to almost reminds me of the new Deus Ex 3 trailer a bit.
Actually, PlaneScape torment sort of reminds me of another game from 1999, Jagged Alliance 2.
Although not nearly as gripping of a story, the gameplay/atmosphere is pretty good. It does a good job of blending Strategy and RPG together. Despite not having multiplayer, it has a high re playability value (mods, new maps, etc.)
Both games had some rather hilarious bugs.
Like Planescape, Jagged Alliance 2 did not sell that well (the company Sir-Tech went out of business…then eventually got picked up and redistributed by “Strategy First”. Sir-Tech also made Wizardy 8.
Sigh, I miss 1999.
LoL That was funny!
I get it and Im not (that) lonely!
Belief can change the nature of a man. That’s the correct answer according to the developer.
I’m still disappointed that they never developed the Amaunator (sp?) worship as an avenue for solving the game, nor having the cleric path be available for use for the main character. It seems like it would also be another way to interact with the Godsmen, such as learning to cast divine spells from your own self-belief.
Uh, what is SA?
nvm, it’s somethingawful.com =P
i don’t get the joke but i’m a lonely person though. :(
Nonesuch old boy, I’m sorry if I irritated you. BUT You’re not exactly disproving what I already said. The very fact that the game was about one no name blob of a thing worked against it and relegated it to the cult game that it is known as. One of the main selling points with many characters is the concept of Identification by an audience/player. The Nameless One just didn’t do that (for me at least), it didn’t feel like it was me playing the game but rather this nameless burk with bad hygene (Oh cmon look at that skin, you can’t tell me thats healthy!.)
As for the whole gameplay thing. Well I maintain it was crappy gameplay but if you feel differently that’s cool too. I tend to like a little more meat to the game. I mentioned Icewind earlier and in all honesty while I loved that game with every part of my body (I’ve been known to lick the disk even today during moments of boredom) after my first play through i got bored of the “LOOK WHAT’S THAT!!!…KILL IT WITH KNIVES!” style of gameplay. The difference was Icewind managed to balance the carnage with the right amount of talky talky.
Planescape went the other route and that bored me even on my first try, I found myself just talking…and talking….and talking….more talking…blah blah blah blah blah blah blah………..zzzzzzzz snore death. I realise many people compare games like that to an interactive book but…it’s a game i want more quality gameplay less yakking if you please If i want dialouge i’ll watch a movie or something. If oodles of dialouge suits you then fine, but please don’t hold a game up as one of the best ever made because the dialouge was good. I thought the dialouge was good in the Discworld games but the gameplay was like having pennies shoved sideways through your wee wee, which was pretty standard for that genre to be honest. Actually come to think of it thats what Planescape reminded me of more than anything. A point and click adventure game.
As for what you regard as an innovation. Well yes your right it was an innovation, just not a very good one, Which is why it’s probably hardly ever reared it’s head again. Think about this in DMs terms since thats how I tend to look at this game. You’ve finally managed (if your players are anything like mine) to coax your party in RPing, yet you still have to baby step them through the conversation. Now they haven’t done anything apart from talk to an NPC. They haven’t weedled anything out of him they haven’t passed a Skill check all theyve done is talked in character. Yet they demand EXP! Well fair enough if a particularly fiendish riddle was posed or they against all the odds managed to pass a diplomacy or bluff check that they really shouldn’t have been able too, well good on them heres an EXP bonus.
But what if they want Wacking great chunks of it? Doesn’t exactly seem fair to me that mere conversation should give the same amount of EXP as say disarming a damn hard trap or defeating an annoyingly powerful opponent. Hence if I was DMing this they would get told to shut their trap or I would do something horrible to them!
So while i’m sorry I annoyed you (I was actually getting annoyed myself at the swarm of “PS:T IS THE BEST GAME EEEVVAARRR!” style comments) understand that I do regard Torment as having a place in video game history. Unfortunatly as somebody who plays RPGs to the point of madness in my own personal Lexicon it is an example of how not to do it.
Maybe Big Flop it too strong a word, But it wasn’t a success, so yeh that kinda makes it a flop if not enough people bought it to outway the costs. You can blame the management or whatever but the fact remains at the time not enough people were willing to shell out for it no matter how much praise it got.
Some of the text is overly long, especially the sequences in the Sensorium, but overall I think it’s one of the few RPGs (especially D&D ones) that doesn’t rely on standard fantasy tropes and allows you to play through and finish the game in a variety of ways. I think this is more “role-play” than “roll-play” (your average hack and slash). Not that I dislike some hack and slash from time to time but I think Torment should be regarded as a very cool attempt to elevate narrative and character in RPGs above the standard junk out there (like any given JRPG), as well as interesting plot twists.
It’s still the only game that I know of where you can kill main characters by cleverly talking to them.
The important thing is that I lol'd.
God I love this game. Beautiful.
DAMN IT!!!This video is so epic , it made my eyes water.Now I want to play Planescape all over againAnd yes I am very lonely,
PS. This is probably my favourite RPG of all time , next to Baldurs Gate 1&2(Again very lonely)
Does anybody think, that only those, who are affected by this issue, love this game?
Also, Noah, great composition, first PST, then this scene (from a movie, that i don't know), and then ” Who wants to live forever ? “, great(, that's so sweet)
I really enjoyed Torment.
Want to know the funniest thing? Is it is actually based off a DnD Setting Planescape. Hardcore.
Who would’ve suspected that, being that it’s Baldur’s Gates Infinity engine powering it.
Want to know the funniest thing? Is it is actually based off a DnD Setting Planescape. Hardcore.
Please stop putting pre-roll ads on videos shorter than 2 minutes, Spoony. Post-roll and overlays I don’t mind. But the pre-roll ads are getting annoying as hell.
Superdeal aler- SHUT THE FUCK UP!
So, wait, does that mean that Steven Seagal is Ravel Puzzlewell?
You know, that somehow makes sense. I mean, only an enchantress of such power as she could possibly get into that many movies with so little, well, talent.
It is time to undust the torment CD and get it running again, and I’ve been waiting for a sign for such along time.
Nope i got nothing