I watched it yesterday. Truly amazing movie.

Lol I couldn't see the entire thing, need sleep, but it was a lot of fun what I did watch.

Went to the bathroom and missed first. Seriously, do you guys have this site on speed dial? It’s 4am on the east coast dammit. Ohioans don’t stand a chance for these late postings.

amazing movie. I’m debating if i should make a rebuttal video to this. i honestly think Noah needs to see the film again i dont think the plot was meant to be understood the way he interpret, and i can use plenty of logic and reason to project this point. im not hating i just was sure you would find some sort of appreciation with this film. especially considering some of the other things you seemed to be interested in, but i do understand this review was also done right after you saw the film maybe that has something to do with it. anyway have a good one. all your other videos are awesome. but honestly this one comes sucks and comes off very egoic. the movie was beautiful and all humans are much more connected with the planet than most are aware of, and energy is surrounding all of us its a constant that always “is” the movie projects some very important ideals that should be paid attention to. not in a preachy way but in a spiritual way, humans not just Americans are conditioned to be greedy and base their lives on scarcity all ways wanting what isn’t abundant forgetting to fallow passion which is what our true purpose is in my opinion is, having a world controlled by monetary gain is what is distracting abandoning such distraction would produce a much closer relationship between the being and the earth.i think the movie was more so trying to send the message of reconnecting with ourselves and detaching from this absurd destructive way of life and turning to a way of life forgotten by the ancients.have a good one lol

I haven't seen in yet (going to see it tomorrow) and I'm not expecting too much as this plot has been done to death with Ferngully, Dances with Wolves, Little Big Man, etc. I think I will like it for the things I want out if though (good action sequences and amazing effects).

Yeah, I don’t really buy into hype that much. Wasn’t that interested in this movie… I love science fiction, I love fantasy, I love interspecies communications and interactions (So long as they aren’t cliche) but I just never was interested in Avatar.

I absolutely loved your rant on the, as Brain would say it, SYMBOLISM!!!!, of white people being jerks to everyone else. I’m sick of that too.

I've been watching you for a while and finally thought I should post a comment… Yeah, that doesn't sound creepy at all.

Anyways, I have yet to see the movie… That is if I see it at all. At least I can see it for free (lucky me having a sister that works at a movie theater). Honestly, I really could care less about it. From the previews and trailers I just couldn't understand why it's being so hyped. Sure it has a huge production cost, sure it has “amazing” cgi, and sure it's James Cameron. Yet, as soon as I saw those Navi (“Hey Link!”), my interest was totally gone. They look fake. They look terrible. They look too cartoony. Now I can suspend my disbelief, I can believe mountains can float. The only thing I thought looked good was the scenery. Such a pretty planet.

miles needs a screen name
Forky?

These two-man reviews with Miles are some of my favorite videos on TES. I love seeing the back and forth. Keep it up! :D

These two-man reviews with Miles are some of my favorite videos on TES. I love seeing the back and forth. Keep it up! :D

Wow… “Unobtainium”?…. really? Well… This movie pretty much sounds exactly what I thought it’d be. I’m glad I stuck with Princess and the Frog then.

EDIT: I’m so awesome, I posted twice.

Placeholder!

EDIT: I’m so awesome, I posted twice.

Placeholder!

I believe the movie is 191 min. long. At least it says in the cinema in my home town. Could be wrong though.

I think the problem of those type of preachy movies (like Last Samurai, District 9 and brothers) is that they claim to be all about respecting blacks/natives/Dodobirds etc but that doesn’t stop them from being condescending to the races they claim to want to support. Otherwise why do a movie where the outsider comes in and magically becomes a great respected warrior or even universally better than the “home race” at whatever their supposed traditional speciality is? It’s not so much a white guilt trip put some really childish and often rather creepy great white savior fantasy. Seems to me doing a movie where native races can actually do things on their own without there needing to be a great white point of view character would actually be a lot more friendly/respectful. Because otherwise it is just a different type of the great white hero fantasy who goes somewhere and rules everybody, regardless of whether he does it by shooting everybody up or by outliberalling each other. It really is just as tired as the terrorism revenge fantasy and similarly condescending to others. Doing a movie where they take away that white point of view character would actually be a lot more interesting to watch and do a lot more to champion understanding of “others”.

…”Unobtainium?”

Seriously? “Unobtainium?”

I thought I'd heard the most blatantly parodius “rare ore” name in Raritanium. Seems like I was wrong. Except this isn't funny, this is just stupid.

I'm sorry Spoony but that statement: “2012 is better Movie and a bigger achievement in special effects than Avatar.” LOL that's the biggest load of bullshit you've ever said LOL

good review with miles dude.

i saw dances with wolves when i was little, so i dont remember much, but from what you and miles said, it sounds like its just another unimaginative stock plot of a movie.

BUT, i'm easy to please, so i'll still see it….eventually.

Hahaa..I knew this movie would be shit. Ferngully meets Dances With Wolves…what a joke.You guys should do more dual reviews, they work really well.

EDIT. I saw it tonight, in 3-D and I have to say…….it’s really good…again, in 3-D. I wouldn’t pay 6 dollars to see it in a regular theater..

I like your brother, Spoony. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him.

Especially because this time you didn't agree with each other. Seeing you guys respond to each other's opinions was far more interesting than a monologue review would've, or could've been.

It sounds like something I would mildly enjoy. I'll look into it when it hits store shelves.

Found myself agreeing with both of you in terms of your views on movies. Does that make me some kinda schizophrenic, or something?

Ya, don't bring up 20-fucking-12. That film just looked painful from the trailers and it's based on some of the most horrendious BS that has ever been grabbed on to by popular culture. No to metion that the “2012 Phenominon” is slowling sucking away whatever life was left in the History Channel.
On another note, this has truly been a terrible year for cinema, hasn't it?

Spoony, I agree with you whole-heartedly about the movie.

That being said…why the hell are you wearing duck shoes? :)

As much as I loved this movie, I still acknowledge the issues you pointed out. If anything, I can forgive everything else it had, except how it really tried to make me feel sorry for something that I have no control over (Trail of Tears and other atrocities done to the Native Americans). Yeah, I feel bad for what happened, but WTF can I do about it? I wanted to go to a reservation and beg for forgiveness after seeing this movie…
And I didn't realize Cameron was technically working on this for ten+ years, though.
Sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, though. I actually kind of liked the Na'vi and their USB hair, but I can understand your issue, I guess. To each his own…

amazing movie. I'm debating if i should make a rebuttal video to this. i honestly think Noah needs to see the film again i dont think the plot was meant to be understood the way he interpret, and i can use plenty of logic and reason to project this point. im not hating i just was sure you would find some sort of appreciation with this film. especially considering some of the other things you seemed to be interested in, but i do understand this review was also done right after you saw the film maybe that has something to do with it. anyway have a good one. all your other videos are awesome. but honestly this one comes sucks and comes off very egoic. the movie was beautiful and all humans are much more connected with the planet than most are aware of, and energy is surrounding all of us its a constant that always “is” the movie projects some very important ideals that should be paid attention to. not in a preachy way but in a spiritual way, humans not just Americans are conditioned to be greedy and base their lives on scarcity all ways wanting what isn't abundant forgetting to fallow passion which is what our true purpose is in my opinion is, having a world controlled by monetary gain is what is distracting abandoning such distraction would produce a much closer relationship between the being and the earth.i think the movie was more so trying to send the message of reconnecting with ourselves and detaching from this absurd destructive way of life and turning to a way of life forgotten by the ancients.have a good one lol oh and go see the movie in 3d what the hell where you thinking.

Don’t go in for the hype, man.

Besides, it’s James Cameron.

Don’t go in for the hype, man.

Besides, it’s James Cameron.

I agree with Noah on most of his comments but me having seen the movie, 24 hrs while typing this, i have to say not bad but not good. I watched it in 3d big whoop it would be fine as a matinée 2d. I going back to think about it the humans and the navi are similar to each other in that they both can plug into things and learn form them. one was reached through science( humans) the other through weird freaky evolution. So in essence it is the same just one took master over self and the other mastery over nature. all in all decent movie but i wanted More Weaver!!

You really did look like you felt better after venting and eating your sandwich. From what I saw of the trailers I didnt intend to go see it but I think I would still watch it as long as it was free and if I didnt have to go too far. Anyway happy holidays Spoony and as always, keep the vids comming.

You really did look like you felt better after venting and eating your sandwich. From what I saw of the trailers I didnt intend to go see it but I think I would still watch it as long as it was free and if I didnt have to go too far. Anyway happy holidays Spoony and as always, keep the vids comming.

The very basic problem of this movie is that it totally disregards its own premise once they get to Pandora. Given the state of Earth, unobtanium (and yes, that is the mineral’s name) is the savior of the human race. Among other things, it lets us get off the wrecked planet. And maybe make it less of a wreck. Fixing your power transmission and waste issues probably helps life on Earth. But the big one is that it plausibly let’s the human race leave by enabling FTL coms and effective .7c space travel. And energy-free superconductors are of course highly desirable on the spacecraft because it cuts your heat sink requirements dramatically and cuts your power requirements for running the ship. And you don’t get into the loop of having to cool the superconductor to save energy… yes, I’m a nerd.

In the scriptment, it’s also clear that Pandora is not the only resource exploitation area for a resource-starved Earth. RDA operates elsewhere and they would need .7c starships for those resources as well.

So “unobtanium” helps the energy situation on Earth, enables easier far-solar and extra-solar resource exploitation, and enables a chance for humans on a large scale to escape Earth if they find something that is either habitable or can be made that way.

The story should have been over a lot more than greed and I suspect that Cameron did realize that at one point or another in the 10 years of working on this. It’s probably not in there because it exceeded his storytelling grasp to still make Jake “right” in those circumstances.

The reason I say ignoring this angle is poor is because it lets you make some fantastic “bad” guys. Instead of a greedy corporation, you now have wide-eyed true believer crusaders. Doesn’t have to be all of them on planet, but it would be considerably more jarring to have a couple characters leaning this way. Some implicit reluctance given the stark situation – maybe they like the Na’vi – but absolute Knight Templar brutality and ruthlessness to get the job done because humanity is at stake.

It also would screw up the strawmanning by giving the audience competing rooting interests. Good book sci-fi would tend to do just this. Authors like Sophie’s choice situations like “two worlds enter, one world leaves.” To wit:

Humans: “We need to rip your planet apart to save our species.”

Na’vi: “The deposit is under our sacred tree, the flying mountains are sacred, and we’re not too thrilled about this whole ‘remove 20% of Pandora’s mass and ship it to your solar system’ long term plan either.”

Humans: “You’r right, that would probably be the end of your biosphere. We’re sorry for your loss.”

Na’vi: “….this is bad.”

Of course, this would make Jake’s choice to associate with the natives more asinine than it is and we can’t have the other side actually having a point. It would still be a much more interesting plot and require characters to make much more difficult choices.

Add to this the whole stupid Vietnam and 9/11 analogies plus the “noble savage” clichee (why Hollywood still clings to that one I just cannot fathom) and even from the POV of someone who is not an American (me) you get a movie that is preachy, anti-civilizational propaganda about living in harmony with nature made by people who have the luxury not having to do just that.

It’s also really bad and inconsequential story-telling if you think about it for more than a second. Just imagine what the Na’vi did just did:

How does eradicating a mining colony make it less likely that you’ll be burned down to the bedrock in the long run? Your stuff is still valuable, you’ve proven you’re unwilling to negotiate, and you’ve demonstrated you’re a threat on the ground… Hey, wow, the atmosphere’s on fire, and what’s that big rock…?!

The very basic problem of this movie is that it totally disregards its own premise once they get to Pandora. Given the state of Earth, unobtanium (and yes, that is the mineral’s name) is the savior of the human race. Among other things, it lets us get off the wrecked planet. And maybe make it less of a wreck. Fixing your power transmission and waste issues probably helps life on Earth. But the big one is that it plausibly let’s the human race leave by enabling FTL coms and effective .7c space travel. And energy-free superconductors are of course highly desirable on the spacecraft because it cuts your heat sink requirements dramatically and cuts your power requirements for running the ship. And you don’t get into the loop of having to cool the superconductor to save energy… yes, I’m a nerd.

In the scriptment, it’s also clear that Pandora is not the only resource exploitation area for a resource-starved Earth. RDA operates elsewhere and they would need .7c starships for those resources as well.

So “unobtanium” helps the energy situation on Earth, enables easier far-solar and extra-solar resource exploitation, and enables a chance for humans on a large scale to escape Earth if they find something that is either habitable or can be made that way.

The story should have been over a lot more than greed and I suspect that Cameron did realize that at one point or another in the 10 years of working on this. It’s probably not in there because it exceeded his storytelling grasp to still make Jake “right” in those circumstances.

The reason I say ignoring this angle is poor is because it lets you make some fantastic “bad” guys. Instead of a greedy corporation, you now have wide-eyed true believer crusaders. Doesn’t have to be all of them on planet, but it would be considerably more jarring to have a couple characters leaning this way. Some implicit reluctance given the stark situation – maybe they like the Na’vi – but absolute Knight Templar brutality and ruthlessness to get the job done because humanity is at stake.

It also would screw up the strawmanning by giving the audience competing rooting interests. Good book sci-fi would tend to do just this. Authors like Sophie’s choice situations like “two worlds enter, one world leaves.” To wit:

Humans: “We need to rip your planet apart to save our species.”

Na’vi: “The deposit is under our sacred tree, the flying mountains are sacred, and we’re not too thrilled about this whole ‘remove 20% of Pandora’s mass and ship it to your solar system’ long term plan either.”

Humans: “You’r right, that would probably be the end of your biosphere. We’re sorry for your loss.”

Na’vi: “….this is bad.”

Of course, this would make Jake’s choice to associate with the natives more asinine than it is and we can’t have the other side actually having a point. It would still be a much more interesting plot and require characters to make much more difficult choices.

Add to this the whole stupid Vietnam and 9/11 analogies plus the “noble savage” clichee (why Hollywood still clings to that one I just cannot fathom) and even from the POV of someone who is not an American (me) you get a movie that is preachy, anti-civilizational propaganda about living in harmony with nature made by people who have the luxury not having to do just that.

It’s also really bad and inconsequential story-telling if you think about it for more than a second. Just imagine what the Na’vi did just did:

How does eradicating a mining colony make it less likely that you’ll be burned down to the bedrock in the long run? Your stuff is still valuable, you’ve proven you’re unwilling to negotiate, and you’ve demonstrated you’re a threat on the ground… Hey, wow, the atmosphere’s on fire, and what’s that big rock…?!

Sorry for double post – still learning about Disqus. Seems to be working now. :D

As far as mentioning things like Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves, this was all done better in the Twilight Zone Episode ‘A Quality of Mercy’, which was told in 30 minutes and with great impact.

Its just a metaphor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

Genshi – you sure can. Except that its a rather inverse rip off which i’d love to see you illustrate just for interest sake. But, on the other hand, so what? The very fact that there are ‘genre’ styles of fiction means that original ideas are hard to develop. That’s not the problem. The problem is how closely things are related to a prior idea. And the more close those two comparisons are (Avatar and Dances with Wolves, in this case), the better the story has to be told, the more developed and interesting the characters need to be, etc. In the case of Ghost in the Shell, I’ve never once Associated Batou or Kusanagi with Neo, because, as per there stories and the fact that they are… well, not as closely related as you seem to think, they have very different expositions and presentations. I suppose you could make the argument that Kusanagi’s ‘immortality’ and somewhat Deus ex Machina appearance in Ghost in the Shell 2 is similar to Neo’s seeming apotheosis in Matrix, except that Neo was a tool of prophecy and died. Kusanagi was just a badass AI that didn’t want to be killed. Based on the similarity between Costner and Worthington’s characters, I probably won’t even see this in the theatre. I’ll probably rent it and watch it with the sound muted.

Also, I want to say that the planet reminded me of a coral reef. The way the plants interact to being touched and the way some of them illuminate when touched. Then again, I'm a loser that watches stuff on ocean life for fun… only difference is that it's not under water. Sounds like you've made your decision on how you feel, but just some food for thought since you couldn't get into believing such a planet could exist. That's all.

Thanks for the heads up on Avatar, I’ll see it later then. Also I’m always wondering what your shirts says could you do a shirt video showing your favorite ones just so I can see what they say. :D

Ah, I see. Thanks for the link; definitely clears that up.

Okay i am 16. I have never heard of avatar until a few weeks ago and the ads for it were extremely vague. I went in knowing only that they were on an alien planet for some corporate enterprise and there were aliens called the na'vi. I saw this film in 3D because that was the most convenient session time.

To me this movie says “lets make something awesome” instead of “lets make something original”. There are lots of good original movies. But there are bad ones too. By focusing on the characters and creatures as opposed to making some original plotline it to me made it a really great movie.

I have to say the only thing i truly could not believe was the waterfalls on the floating mountains. The rest i could kinda believe.

Lets not forget Atmospherium!

While I would love for more of his other reviews, I don't think I have an issue with his VLogs (well, except maybe the lengths of some of them… I have them as background noise for the most part). I mean, Noah considers himself a movie critic above all else, and of course he's going to want to give others a head's up on the current movies. However, you do raise a good point: they need to be slightly shorter and perhaps a little scripted. Not completely scripted, but at least to where he'll cover the important stuff. 10, 15 minutes would be fine for Vlogs; that way he gets his message across and not feel so winded by the end of them. I love Spoony, but 40 minutes for a Vlog -is- pushing it, and I like them (eh, for the most part. As I said, I run them as background noise half the time).

Could not have said it better myself, well done

Man, I'd love to, because I'd probably rather read or watch any of those titles than watch the Matrix again right now, but that's rather a bit more time that I have. My point was that the Matrix was (as you point out) about simulated reality, but Ghost in the Shell was about the difference between soul and artificial intelligence.

YES you really answer some of my questions to this movie.I agree the story is what it matters, if there is no more originality than make it original through the execution and I don't mean special effects, I mean characters you can relate to and feel sorry for them, engrossing story, wonderful performed soundtrack( well that too is a problem in originality), state of the art animatronics, I'd prefer to see some detailed fur costumes than some hammed down CGI puppet that it doesn't even realistically interact with the world or humans.

The movie, as I understand, is technically another critique towards the old Bush administration or even to the new Government, that Pandora is the Oil and the Navi are the Muslims and the Terrans are the Americans or whoever joined the war against Muslims. Yeah subtle but I think most people will still go with The Dances With Wolves comparison and not realize it could be more similar to present day happenings. Also no gray characters, really that demonstrate the moral is shoved not in your moth but up your ass and it hurts like Hell when they think we deserved it to be patronized with hammy delivered plot. I think directors should take a step back from presenting their politics in movies and just present us a good story that should impress us with it's humanity, action, drama and not it's politics. You still got to hand it to Cameron he knows what sells this days: CGI. Look at Pixar, look at Dreamworks, they get crap loads of money with CGI furries and 2 year old written stories and OH SNAP dialog.

Too bad that I think this movie won't go down in history as a masterpiece but as a huge BOX-OFFICE FLOP, but who knows maybe people will go to see Smurfs the Green Avengers. Also I think I'll wait for the DVD just to see the final battle because it gets allot of appraisal. But James Cameron has lost it with character characterization if you say the humans seemed extremely evil and the Navi were seen as some poor lost souls.

I think you guys might be interested in Moviebob’s take on it;

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1333-Avatar

I hadn't even heard of this movie until recently, nor have I seen Dances with Wolves, but I think the claims of unoriginality are fair enough. It wasn't spectacularly innovative in that area certainly, and that can be fine. It was entertaining, an interesting spectacle, but not a masterpiece all the same. I'd watch it again quite happily, but I doubt I'd ever buy it or be one of those movies I'd want to watch over and over. Then again, that has been my general reaction to most of Cameron's movies, none of which I've thought merited the enormous praise they get. Like them, Avatar has plenty to praise, but it isn't a movie which will stand tall through the ages, if you'll forgive the expression. Fine review all the same.

Also I'd like to add something else to my comment that I forgot, the lack of original plotlines, also I thinks there is a lack of original execution this days in movies, is the reason why Hollywood is looking this days in different mediums or at least for the past 3 or 5 years. That's why they are doing this days so often comicbook movies or remakes of foreign movies or even bastardize animes and mangas. Hollywood isn't doing this because they want to tackle original and fantastic stories, which you can find in the mediums I enumerated above, but because they know there is a fanbase. A fanbase that they interestingly enough they estrange by the fact the Americanize the movie or sometimes because they try to be too faithful and miss the point. Well here's to Nolan's 3rd Batman movie, if that will ever happen.

I watched it as well, but Spoony and Moviebob have different taste in the matter. I'm guessing Moviebob is more willing to accept whatever bad came with what he felt was good, and that's perfectly fine. I'm still leaning towards Moviebob's verdict, but I can definitely acknowledge the issues that Spoony pointed out. Then again, I'm not a movie critic. I just like to sit down and watch a good/decent/great movie. I'd rather watch this again than anything Twilight, but that goes without saying.

The story of Avatar is also ripped off a short story written in the 1950′s called ‘Call me joe’ about a man who has his mind transfered into a genetically engineered alien clone so he can infiltrate the population of large blue cat like jungle peope who live on Jupiter, as we now know Jupiter has no mass Pandora orbits a blue recolour of Jupiter.
It still looks visualy stunning and was an enjyable story if done before, I went into it having only seen one trailer and a few screen shots.

The story of Avatar is also ripped off a short story written in the 1950′s called ‘Call me joe’ about a man who has his mind transfered into a genetically engineered alien clone so he can infiltrate the population of large blue cat like jungle peope who live on Jupiter, as we now know Jupiter has no mass Pandora orbits a blue recolour of Jupiter.
It still looks visualy stunning and was an enjyable story if done before, I went into it having only seen one trailer and a few screen shots.

I agree with you in regards to Ghost in the shell, what I disagree with, is you and most other folks Dances with wolves references, while the two films may be thematically similar, they are so in the same way that Costner's Epic is similar to “Farewell to the king,” “the Emerald Forest,” “Lawrence of Arabia” and to a certain extent “the Mission.” they all involve the main character encountering a culture alien to their own, going native and then fighting to protect it, but all the characters individual journey is different from the others as is ultimately Jake Sully's in Avatar.

I saw it in IMAX 3D, and then i saw it in a normal theater, and it DOES make a difference.

You have to see this movie for what it is. It’s like with the PC game Crysis, you can’t see it as another FPS game, it is a technological demo, it will blow you away when you play it in full visual capabilities, otherwise it’s a disappointment (because it’s just another FPS with nothing special). I’ve been telling people “go see it in 3D, or just don’t see it at all”.

I saw it in IMAX 3D, and then i saw it in a normal theater, and it DOES make a difference.

You have to see this movie for what it is. It’s like with the PC game Crysis, you can’t see it as another FPS game, it is a technological demo, it will blow you away when you play it in full visual capabilities, otherwise it’s a disappointment (because it’s just another FPS with nothing special). I’ve been telling people “go see it in 3D, or just don’t see it at all”.

This looks…pretty dull, to be honest, and it doesn't look like anything original or new in cinema. Rather than be experimental with effects, it seems James Cameron was just smearing technological mayonaise on his withered, saggy, but smooth and marble-like testicles and calling it a leap-forward in cinema. There are bigger leaps forward in cinema on youtube than in Hollywood or effects studios…

Finally Refreshing to hear about the PLOT over the Spectical. and just as I thought it was preachy BS. Thanks for the honest review.

You should do more reviews with you brother, Spoony!

Good morning Spoony and fellow Spooners.

1. “Silence, pussy!” Funny.
2. I'm curious what Spoony thought about Gollum in terms of emotionally connecting to a CGI character.
3. NO “DUNE” REFERENCES FROM SPOONY (Unobtanium = Spice)?! I thought I knew you, man. I thought I knew you. (shakes head in sadness) Well, maybe you can do it in a “5 Second Review”.
4. I liked the “Fast and the Furious” reference, given Miles' resemblance to Vin Diesel.

DAMMIT. This was a reply to Bmoyn, but I'm still not used to Disqus. Anywho.

Great review Spoony! My family wanted to see this movie recently but I had remembered you saying 2012 was a decent movie and the opening night rush for Avatar did not really warm me to seeing the 'pillar of science fiction'. I have to agree with your opinions on 2012, it was a fun movie for what it was (an apocalypse-scenario boom-fiesta) although the allegorical imagery got a bit heavy handed there.

As for Avatar, after this review I think I'll just wait to see it on DVD if at all.

Thanks for the reviews and have a happy holiday!

On another side note I hope you do more reviews with your brother Spoony, when he has the time because I like the chemistry between you two. You always agree on some points and on others you are on opposites and to see two people who are really into classy movies and trash cinema talk about recent movies is really nostalgic to me. Keep up the great work and yeah as I saw on a post of yours on Twitter Princess Mononoke is waaaaaay better than Avatar sounds from so many POV.

Of course it’s bullshit, the aliens look like 80% man. But flying mountains are awesome. More movies should have flying mountains.

Just a few excerpts from Kenneth Turan's review in the LA Times that perfectly illustrate my point. Btw I read this after I'd already namechecked Jazz Singer so didn't just copy him:

Think of “Avatar” as “The Jazz Singer” of 3-D filmmaking. Think of it as the most expensive and accomplished Saturday matinee movie ever made. Think of it as the ultimate James Cameron production.

An extraordinary act of visual imagination, “Avatar” is not the first of the new generation of 3-D films, just as “Jazz Singer” was not the first time people had spoken on screen. But like the Al Jolson vehicle, it's the one that's going to energize audiences about the full potential of this medium.

In Cameron's hands, 3-D is not the forced gimmick it's often been, but a way to create an alternate reality and insert us so completely and seamlessly into it that we feel like we've actually been there, not watched it on a screen. If taking pleasure in spectacle and adventure is one of the reasons you go to the movies, this is something you won't want to miss.

I really hope that those of you who have decided to hold off on seeing this film til dvd cos of the vlog, will go and see it in 3D and give it a chance to say what it sets out to say as an experience.

Love you all,

pz

I don’t get any ‘white guilt’ watching avatar. I feel that the bits you were insulted by were just tools to tell a story. I doubt James Cameron is weeping every night because he feels that the white man has done so many terrible things; he’s no different to you and I. The obvious messages (oil etc) are obvious problems.

As for the colonel, he was a Mercenary. He liked killing. He’s meant to be a total twonk. He’s hired because he is good at his job which was killing. Hammy? Yes, but still good. It was clearly meant to be hammy! I would liek to think James Cameron or any of his staff are aware enough to see that.

I share a lot of your problems, but I still loved it. Like all science fiction, it relied on your suspension of disbelief entirely. The reason why you probably didn’t like it Spoony is because you like things explained – like the linking of the nervous systems – how the hell did they evolve like that? You have said before you like your science fiction or fantasy explained and practical.

I agree with most of the points, yet ecology, if you would have seen enough documentaries about possible ecology on other planets; you would understand that it may not look like anything we are used to see. I agree with the flaws, yet they didn’t piss me of that much maybe because I haven’t seen “Dance With The Wolfs”. The colonel, mechs and space shuttles were cool.
I sat in a theater and those 3 hours weren’t painful and it was a wonder to watch.
8/10 mildly impressed.

Saw the movie had a couple of things to add..

On the CGI Thing. I agree I remember seeing Star Wars in the theater, and all those sci fi movies where they used real model effects and they looked bad ass. I agree that CGI has been more of a bad thing than a good thing, but I'm sorry to say that you have to get over it. CGI is here to stay, I don't like it, you certainly don't like it, what are you going to do about it? We've past the point of no return, a whole generation of movie goers aren't going to remember seeing movies such as Empire Strikes Back or Ghostbusters or a similar movie where effects were “Real” Like the chopper scene in “Blue Thunder” where the helecopters were chasing each other over LA. Sadly, these kinds of movies are never going to be made again. Why? Becuase it's easier to acomplish it in a computer rather than do it in real life. The ability to get the same camera angles is close to nearly impossible to do so. Something I agree with you on, but you have to let it go in certain things. Lord of the Rings is a good example of this.

As for the “Preachy” aspect of this film, yes we've seen it before. But, we don't hear complaints about movies that deal with the holocaust. People don't start saying “Oh great, another preachy holocaust movie!” Now, it parellels human history, and yes it has happened before, but think about it. Those who don't learn from their history repeat it. Oppression is bad, torerance is good…Yadda yadda yadda

However, one could say that Cameron created the Mech suit idea when he did Aliens. “Where do you want it?” “Bay 12 please…”

Loved the Col. He was great. Loved the story even if it was repetitive.

You guy should really do more of this! “The Spoony Brothers”!!!

LOve this site, keep up the good work.

there is no way this is like fern gully

The plot of Avatar reminds me of the Star Trek Voyager episode “Nemesis”. I think this movie would have been better served if it followed that plot more exactly, though much less PC.

I gotta say I don't expect much of this movie, it's just another CGI movie that comes out once in a long while. This review gave me a good idea of what to expect.

Oh and to the people being bitchy about the attitude and OPINIONS in the review… they're opinions. If you didn't know right off the bat that Noah would burn Avatar at the stake well watch more of his work, that's what he does.

Great job Noah and bro, you guys are awesome! Make more of those argumentative reviews with your brother it's really cool when your opinions differ!

-Mike

From the first moment I saw the trailer I thought it looked like, well…. a furry film. But I thought then “Whatever, you know, it could be ok, even though when I see giant, virile, half-naked blue cat people running around being persecuted by white people I have to wonder.” Then I caught wind of the plot, and, this was my basic theory I threw at a friend a few days ago:

Think about it, the main, crippled guy (paralleling the crippling social awkwardness shared by many furries) goes into this society of weird anthropomorphic blue cat people (joining the fandom because it gives him a social outlet) in disguise (fursuit) and finds it's the place he belongs (finding that everyone is very accepting of him because furries are mostly all social outcasts and support each other) and that he can now walk (once again, he is no longer socially crippled), gets busy with one of the other cat people (IN FURSUIT I might add), and then all the blue cat people get persecuted (or should I say, fursecuted?) in order to get the “unobtainium” which is clearly “lulz” which can be gleaned from furry fandom.

Clearly I know this was not Cameron's intention but that's all I can think while watching it.

I found it interesting when your bro brought up District 9, another movie about alien-human relations wherein a human transforms into an alien, humans suck and there is a ton of CGI. But I can't help but think that the disconnect there is that Avatar seems massively “epic” in scale of conflict, while D9 had this sort of personal intimacy that comes with the vulnerability of the leads and the awesome moral ambiguity and psychological impact of oppression on the aliens in that was far more interesting to watch. Because of the black-and-white morality of Avatar, it gives it an immature feeling that, when coupled with the blue cat people who can plug their hair into trees and shit, makes you wonder if Cameron came up with this story not ten years ago but 43 at age 12 and never changed the moral structure.

Most people are probably saying shit like “It's just sci-fi, Spoony! What do you expect? lol” but as a huge fan of sci-fi I have to just say NO. We live in a world where science fiction films are often actually very good, and this is a director that has made good sci-fi in the past… look at the Terminator films. Clearly, Terminator “isn't Citizen Cane”, to reference the excuse many make for bad movies (why do people always say this? “Were you expecting Citizen Cane?” Don't be stupid, of course not) but it's still an amazing movie. It builds tension and releases perfectly, and visually the stop-motion and puppetry look amazing. Same goes with Judgment Day, which utilized CGI and MADE IT WORK.

On the topic of CGI, I think it's most useful in creating stuff that could never exist on a physical plane, and that's my problem with the Na'vi… they look too much like humans! Give me a break. I'm not going to pretend I don't have a massive boner for awesome special effects, but if the whole movie is done in the same style, well, doesn't that sort of take the “special” out of “special effects”? Now they're just “standard movie stuff.” Which is bullshit.

As for the WHITE GUILT stuff, I think films like this are dangerous. Why is that? We really do, as Americans, learn most of what we know, in a tacit way, from cinema. And when a movie that portrays a white person going in, living with a “minority” and falling in love with their purity and majesty or whatever you want to call it, only to have another contingent of honkeys to come in and destroy everything and everyone and basically makes you look at how RACIST you are for never doing anything about it, despite the fact that it probably all happened before you were born, or in space, etc, we get a different view of the same stereotype. These movies impose this stereotype that minorities are really all a bunch of helpless, fragile people who need to be treated like babies because they can't take care of themselves without a “good” white person around to protect them from the “bad” white person. It makes us, modern white people who were not involved in slavery or the killings of native peoples, feel better even though we call it “White Guilt.” White Guilt is basically a product of vanity, particularly in the cinematic sense. It's dangerous to make white guilt films, because they still perpetuate some retarded sense of white superiority. It's just like anytime a movie invents a “strong female character” who later somehow loses her strength and needs to be saved by a dude perpetuates the concepts of women being weak at their core and needing a man to protect them.

But anyway, good review, my good Spoony, I enjoy when your brother is one; whether you guys agree or disagree, it's always nice when you mix it up a bit, and Miles has such a more… gentle take, compared to your snarkiness, which makes for an interesting contrast.

Also I think the flying mountains is stolen from World Of Warcraft… If you go to Outland in Burning Crusade you will see a ton of flying mountains, its something to do with that Outland is a plane torn apart by magic… But it doesnt make any sense in Avatar, I think its just a matter of suspending your disbelief and take the flying mountains as a….. “well thats a sight” thing. But I honestly thought there was more to Avatar than what youve touched upon… I havent seen it and after hearing you two talk I probably wont…. I think its bad taste to do the whole America Sucks Maaan so straightforward as its apparently done in Avatar… I mean when the fuck did the movie industry choose to completely forget the word subtlety… but then again the American blockbuster has almost always been lame as hell… with a few exceptions.. I think its sad how modern directors cater to the lowest common denominator (hope I spelled that right) instead of going “f that” and make smart movies.. Which is why I love a guy like David Lynch and Danish Lars Von Trier.. Von Trier makes smart movies that arent as weird as Lynch and when asked about what the meaning is he just gets in your face, like last he was asked about Antichrist he said “its the hand of god, Im the best director in the world” he is as cocky as Michael Bay but he makes MOVIES not entertainment for the masses….

Wooooooow that was a friggin novel…. Cheers

God damn it, fucking login thing made me lose what I said. Anyways, I was saying I agree with everything you said except you comparing it to The Last Samurai. The Last Samurai wasn't really an “Imperialist Whities coming into suppress the natives,” It was a movie about “The Old vs The New.” In fact, you could remove Tom Cruise's character and tell it from another person's in the Samurai Society and get the same message. The only problem then is that it wouldn't have sold as well in America and that's a big no no for Hollywood lol. To be fair though, Tom Cruise and his character didn't detract from the movie and its message and did give a good character for Americans to “Relate to” and imagine how they'd react to the stuff too through him.

So ya, I agree with everything else, this movie is Dances With Wolves and has some ridiculous thing, but I'm a little easier on it. It's not a bad movie to watch, it's just not as “original and grand” as they claimed.

Hmm, I guess I shouldn't watch things like this before I see movies. Granted I will still go see it, but you guys have made me think twice about it. I like how the two of you bounce off each other. Good stuff, Most enjoyable.

They could've made a good fantasy movie out of it, without being preachy. But instead they made Dances with Smurfs…

I saw the movie in 3D, and I thought it was worth the 12 bucks I spent on it. Story wise, I thought it was just ok, but the 3D was the selling point of this movie. Far from spectacular but watchable. This movie didn’t really let down my expectations because I was honestly expecting a horrible disaster of a movie.

btw: Spoony, if you keep eating those burgers, you and Miles can be the new Roger and Ebert.
@Miles, has anybody ever told you that you sort of resemble Vin Diesel?

wow, you're really impassioned about the plot analysis spoony…
what is wrong with the story? it doesnt seem that bad…

am I the only one who saw the displacer beasts? I have heard no mention anywhere of them.

The mountains can fly because of the spinny things underneath… Like the garden in FF8

Spoony You need to stop being so snobby ok Relax like punchultimate said Cameron said that he wanted to show familiar themes and a familiar story in a new and innovative way, not teach people things man relax spoony, Fucking relax. I still love this movie A LOT and i'm going to buy it no matter what people say and heck i may see it again. I loved it and it was Fucking amazing But i still respect your opinion man But RELAX!!

Spoony, long time watcher, first time disagree-er. I honestly loved the movie, and I hardly ever watch TV so I really didn’t catch wind of all the hype surrounding it. Hell when I first heard of it I was like, “They’re going to make a Last Airbender movie?” Which i thought was stupid. Honestly I was absolutely blown away, and I like to consider myself somewhat of a movie buff. But all the un-originality was nothing compared to the global scale of the entire movie. I’m not saying you were wrong in calling it uninspired, but give it some credit. I thought, unlike most people, the character development was top-notch and the acting was pretty damn good most of the time also. Sure it had your usual “liberal” save the planet theology that alot of sci-fi movies have had. But I dunno, for some reason this movie was completely different for me. It’s as if I saw past all that and found probably one of the best movies 2009. I’m sure many people will discredit me for saying it, but I don’t care, this movie kicked ass, and I hate sounding like a fanboy.

Sure it had plot elements from Ferngully, The Matrix, Dances with Wolves, hell even other Cameron movies like Aliens (to the death mech-suit fighting anyone). But honestly there really are no original ideas anymore, they’re all stealing from something. And if this WAS a re-telling of Dances with Wolves then I consider pretty fucking awesome, and enjoyed the ride all the way through. When I first saw the blue people in the movie and when you first heard the woman talk, I was like, “Oh no, this is just going to be 2 and 1/2 hours of horrible jokes and weird looking blue people doing equally weird stuff”. And while in some cases it was, The Na’Vi, for me at least, really connected with me in a profound way, it was one of those movies where I came out of the theater saying, “That was well worth 10 bucks”. The movie has latched on to my brain and is beginning to feed off it, because it’s one of those movies that really makes you think how it would be to be in, not only someone else’s shoes, but in a completely different race and culture. To be someone else for just a few hours a day, someone completely opposite you, but in the same way, the same is a weird thought for me. In short, I wanted to be inside this fantasy epic living this life jumping around the trees, flying around on a weird Pterodactyl, and yes boinking an alien. And in the end I think that was what James Cameron wanted, but I could be way off.

It did have it’s “hey look at this impressive landscape and special effects” moments, but I don’t care because I found those moments absolutely breath-taking and when you come right down to it, it becomes basically a question of originality for you Spoony, and while I agree this movie did fail somewhat for it’s original aspects, we are talking about a crippled jarhead being phantom leaped and developed into an athletic and tree-hugging character, if that is not a developed anti-thesis then I honestly don’t know what is. Spoony I love when you’re bashing Michael Bay and playing crappy FMV games from the 90′s, but I’m gonna disagree with you on this one. Not saying you were wrong, just saying you were a little too radical. To call it the next leap in film making is a stretch, but you can’t help but be, if nothing else, entertained (and no I have never seen Dances with Wolves so I didn’t catch the identical story).

And btw I love your brother in these reviews, you should definitely do more together.

I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it, just that I don't expect to be blown away by it. Glad you enjoyed it though.

Did you watch it in 3D. Thats the reason its the next leap in film.

see it in 3D

I did not, and walking out of theater looking at the poster that said it was in 3d did actually make me feel I was missing out on something.

“you take away the right of a white filmmaker to criticize white people….. um there probably wouldn't have been any MOVIES IN CINEMAS THIS YEAR!”

Exactly. Bashing my race is a huge party of modern film and it's sickening. Your sentiments merely prove my point, you Uncle Tom.

I'm going to see this movie
I was going to see it knowing it was bad but now I found a new motivation besides to see a train wreck
MECH VS. ALIEN KNIFE FIGHT

Great review! Your brother rather reminds me of a skinnier Vin Diesel (no offense at all intended, rather a compliment I think). Nice to see you bringing in other people for your Vlog!

I think this movie was a bit over hyped. I agree with your brother if I went in knowing nothing about this movie, it would have been great.

this film was a human vs alien movie genre. And in that manner that film was quite good.

I'm sure the movie is objectively pretty good but the premise is unappealing to me, to the point where I have no real desire to see the film.

I don't care about space-faring evil imperialist white men.

I don't care about big blue noble savage natives.

I just. don't. care.

On a side note, white guilt is stupid. Race is nothing but a common ancestry. Therefore, the idea that we should be held morally responsible for the actions of our ancestors is incredibly racist. And actually, if we're talking about guilt over the treatment of native Americans, then MY ancestors were busy being oppressed by the English at the time; so you're asking me to feel guilty for something done by people that have the same skin colour as my ancestors. Wow.

I have to disagree that the 'invading white people' trope is a bad one.

I haven't seen Avatar yet but I'm going to see it for the Blue-space-elf-cats. I have no problem with floating islands, I put it under Rule-Of-Cool and because-it-looks-pretty so I don''t think I'll be dissapointed in that regaurd (and I don't play WoW so the forrest won't be a problem).

Is it me or there been several movies this recently that have a political theme going on in them? That whole bashing americans by having humans try and take over some alien planet or resource. Avatar isn’t the first. They had a cartoon about earth being gone and last of humanity wanted to steal a planet from a non-war making race. Even planet 51… the trailers give me the impression it has a bit of same even if its not as forced down our throat.

Its kinda sad when we are satisfied with a movie that is really pieces of several good movies in one.

I'm kinda with you spoony….and kinda not. Don't get me wrong this movie is a freakin feast for the eyeballs. But your right the story really is a retred.

And I'll admit I sort of agree with Michael Bay..DON'T KILL ME!… the whole 3D thing does seem like kind of a fad. I just can't see it becoming mainstream.

[I know you are a critic, and it's your right/job to criticize the flaws and failings in movies...I just feel bad when it seems that just because somebody in the media hypes up a movie like it's the second coming, you lose the ability to enjoy it for what it is =(]

I thought this as well.

I have not seen the movie yet but from one watch of the trailers I pretty much knew this was a “Manifest Destiny” story. Where this fails is this movie has a child target demographic, and even though adults are going to see this they are not going to be preached to, they are going to be entertained.
Movies are entertainment first and your fictional adventures are not the place for social awareness. Reason is, no one is to a space fantasy adventure to become socially aware.
I will see this tomorrow and I think I will still be with Spoony on this review. Movies are an escape from reality and to entertain, leave the messages out of my scifi and fantasy.
Great rant Spoony

How does this movie have a child target demographic? PG-13, pitching it in trailers as a vast sci fi action epic from the director of Titanic and Aliens, both adult films. Saying films should entertain and not have a message of any kind is insane. All great movies have messages of differing natures. Fight Club, American Beauty, Jurassic Park, Godfather, Star Wars, these are films built on morals and life lessons, which you underestimate at your peril as these messages form the foundations on which all the fun is structured…. when you make a film saying it should just entertain, it doesn't need to say anything or have a moral (or THEME, which is essentially a life lesson such as “if you do this… then…. something something, could happen to you”) then you end up with Phantom Menace, GI Joe or Transformers 2.

Quiz/Test-What Country makes the purest gold, What Country only makes acertainreddye #, Was Core REseedingclosecaptioned a failed alcomy project because the dye # RI claims tobe CVS is still from fucking canada so that is a monoply just cause they set up camp and undersold there gold in a controlled viewing system for information, put it this way, most products are made the same way some just have spells and brain warsh,p98uyqt[i, signals…I say?<listen-the cars are 7500000000000000000000gil with shocks, sooooo good the driver is in complete comfort while the city roads are destroyed faster, are we getting stupider each year???? or is the machine making us suffer a slow painful death…I mean television is clearly reality sucked threw EVENT HORIZEN and shot INTO THE FUCKING SUN…my point is we are destroying the verything that supports us for luxiory, look around man hitler won, he just changed the races…holy shit yaknow how the machines won? be befriending us, in T-3 Sky-NET was activated when LA-D.Y. ate ATOMS power cell, 2012? Archs? pshh the point was to drop all this super fishal seasonal bullshit and work on our survival…oh and the funny thing is people don't say lullaby's anymore…a machine can't scare Lilith it cant run on Lilith even if it says lilithium, Quezacotl CANT SAVE YOUR BABIES, here in case ya'll forgot I'll start off with one “Rock a buy baby in the tree top…..” oh and I told EVE to get the fuck out the car cause thats what started this whole mess in the first place. She was tired of walking threw the garden she bit the um FF and would ya look at that a fucking SOFIA NORA the 3rd MA-01…sure I got in it alright…but we never got out.

Look Spoony, I usually like your stuff (a lot) but here you are just being ignorant. You complain about the plot. Fine. But you Cannot complain that it wasn't a visual spectacle when you didn't see it in 3D!!!! The new 3D camera designed while making this movie was the whole damn point!!!

Your biggest complaint is the lack of immersion into the story, and believability of the setting. Well honestly the whole problem is you didn't see it in 3D! The 3D isn't cheesy, it doesn't hurt your eyes and is not a “cheap gimmick”. The whole point of the 3D in this movie was to immerse yourself in the world. It made the world entirely believable and made it feel like you were there. The whole point of this movie was not to have a groundbreaking plot, but to be able to immerse yourself in such an imaginative alien world due to the new 3D camera, and in this regard the movie succeeded immensely.

I can't really take your review seriously because of this, and damn was it dumb to not go see it in 3D.

amen spoony. I saw it in 3d and yeah it does add more weight to the cgi and if I had just stuck my fingers in my ears I would've really enjoyed it but the first overtly, (I can't afford an operation maybe teh gobment should pay) was errrr!!! my ears, then the whole weee need oil (unubtainum) ahhhhh!! then fight terror with terror (you mean fight massive unification with perceived intentions with terror) PREEMPTIVE STRIKE SHOCK AND AWE! AHHHHHH! STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT! I wan'ted to rip off someone's face for the crappy writing. but I disagree on the floating mountains, that is in a lot of anime and it is neat and dream like, I guess they had unubtainum suspending them and the water fall I can understand as forming from some insane amount of precipitation, I can excuse the science ficitiony part of it, but yeah the plugging in thing was just dumb why would other animals need that? So they can all serve the huminoid navi? the tree thing is neeto but still why? we have a connection with nature, no literally a connection with nature we can talk to nature and I don't just mean in a “tree hugger” we destroyed the earth stop it cameron! this isn't cameron's only preachy film, abyss too but i liked abyss cause it saved the preachy stuff for the end, this one couldn't wait to shove it in your face.

Some of you people are seriously overreacting. Spoony didn't like the movie. Big deal. Everyone has opinions. He stated his reasons for not liking it. For you people who seriously think this is one of the best movies you have ever seen in your life, you really need to see more movies. The visuals are fantastic, yes, but the movie itself is pretty much average at best.

oh spoony you forgot stargate too

Thank you Spoony. At least one person on this earth agrees with me.

I have to respectively disagree with you Spoony (btw 3-d really has a great affect in this movie). Your opinion I find is to be very american. The whole thing you get pissed off about it being preachy I didn't find. It tells though the human history of war it's usually started by someone having something someone else wants so they go to war to get it and it justifies it. To be honest if you view this movie is preaching against the so called evil americans well good. America needs to see itself other than the good guy because sometimes it's the bad guy. I know I'm probably going to get a lot of hate mail for that comment but hey there I said it. The visuals were great and the story may be long I found it to paced very well. So there I said my peace BRING ON THE HATE MAIL PEOPLE!!!

Dammit I'm not done.

For a movie that's supposed to be pushing tolerance and understanding of other cultures, there is one culture that was completely misunderstood. Is this really how they view military types? I don't think I have ever seen a feature film that was so blatantly hateful and stereotypical towards the military in my life.

Bravo movie. Let's all hold hands and get along, as long as we all hate this one group here. If we can all agree on which group to hate, we'll truly have piece and end violence forever.

“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal then others” -George Orwell

Damn you movie, I wanted to like you so bad. There were actually interesting moments. I tried to let myself get sucked in but just as I was about to……”she's real” and then you fucking ruin it.

Umm this movie established that these guys were mercs in the beginning. It's not a view that the military is evil it's a view about how these mercs were willing to wipe out a people for financial gain.

Alright I'll give you that. But it was only mentioned in the beginning and perhaps hinted at again when that one pilot said “I didn't sign up for this”. It still gave off that impression and most people are going to walk away remembering white people in military uniforms with big guns and helicopters. And they're only white to make sure you get the connection with Americans.

You don't think their behavior was insulting stereotypical military marine behavior? Even the Colonel bad guy character? I swear I was watching Small Soldiers there for a while.

Alright Spoony? I've been following your site for 2 years now and this is my first comment, its been a long time coming I know. I love all your videos and agree with you on most things almost 100% of the time. So here goes.

I haven't actually seen the movie yet so Im not going to flame it, but one thing I will say is that I agree especially with Spoony's view that people should not be lectured to when seeing a movie. When I see a movie I want to be entertained, I don't care about which side of the political spectrum a movie is basing itself on, I couldn't care less. Sure if the film makers make the message as subtle as possible thats alright, I don't mind that, but don't shove your views in my face and tell me 'this is wrong' and 'this should be the ways things work' because its really off putting. I'm not saying this about Avatar, as I said I haven't seen it yet but I'm saying this about movies in general.

According to some people, other than Spoony, this movie is not very subtle when it comes to preaching against the Iraq War. Regardless about what people think about the Iraq War or the War on Terror for that matter, once again when it comes to movies I just don't care. I want to entertained, not told by some liberal or conservative film maker whats right and whats wrong, let the audience decide that without the help of a one-sided preachy movie. I know it sounds like I'm flaming Avatar but this has to said, I go to see movies to try and enjoy them and not be influenced about what to protest against.

As for the 3D aspect of the movie I'm looking forward to seeing the format as I've never seen a 3D movie before. For a first time experience it should be amazing. One thing I will say about 3D though is that I don't think the format is the future of cinema. The NC said it best when he said that if you are going to use motion capturing why not just use real actors. 3D and special effects do not make a movie good, its the story and its characters that make a movie worth watching. But hey thats just what I think, anyone else agree?

I'm still going to see Avatar regardless of what Spoony says, then I'll post what I thought of it. Nice review as always Spoony and Miles also. You two should do this more often.

Nerdrage much Spoony?

LoL, I thought the movie was awesome…

and it seems like my bitter criticizing nature can't agree with the Spoony own all the time….;P

Spoony, look at star wars and how blatant the evil vs good is in that, there are no shades of grey… or look at other cameron movies, like in Aliens, weyland yutani is clearly this evil money-grubbing corporation that considers humans expendable for there gains, there's NO shades of grey about it. Do you find that preachy or condescending? I don't… I think that the creator is trying to make a villain, and villains are simply evil. Why should there be shades of grey? Is a child rapist evil or is there shades of grey that need to be shown, to show that he has some good in him? Why? What's the point, he's evil, that's it. So, Avatar is one of those movies where it just gets right to the point, and I appreciate it for that… In fact, I find that those movies that try to show shades of grey are the ones being preachy and condescending. This movie was visually STUNNING and a remarkable achievment in terms of the detailed, lush fantasy world that was put to screen and all its inhabitants. The action, when there was any, was really really well done by any standards.. but like you brother said, they were far and few between. Oh, and I also found the colonel's bravado to be awesomely entertaining (why dilute that with shades of grey, I WANT outrageous, outlandish characters like that in a movie) …Shades of grey is boring, I want to see the extremes! Having said that, this movie was almost immediately forgettable and has limited replay value, I knew that coming in (just from the vibe I got from the trailers), so I just took it for what it is and was thoroughly entertained. Oh, and the 3D was actually bearable for the whole duration, surprisingly.. however, it felt unnecessary. I agree with you points partially, but I definitely wouldn't say this is bullshit.

starwars had a message that their may still be good in an evil person tho, that is sorta a shade of grey, the whole idea of all 3 original films was to redeem anakin, through the machine of darth vader. when it preaches its at luke not the audience, there is a big difference. Aliens doesn't beat you over head with a baseball bat in the first 5 minutes or have a hundred references to our current situation. I understand the simple message it is timeless in Aliens, people want an ultimate weapon that can't be tied to the person using it. Avatar is so preachy on american politics that it just rubs me the wrong way, like the health care debate, killing our planet, white guilt (I'm mexican by the way, I just don't think it necessary to blame current generations for their ancestor's sins, and that its racist to blame everything wrong with the world on white people), I was also upset there weren't enough blacks, mexicans, Indians (from India) or Asians in this movie come on minorities currently out number whites in terms of global population. I would expect the future to continue this trend, unless a bunch of racists just decide to nuke the other races. I mean the whole lets have a bunch of rednecks shooting up some space aliens was offensive and stupid even to a Mexican. I have many friends and family that are white and military and I know they aren't a bunch of mouth breathing racists that want to just shoot “rag heads” or whatever. This movie is just out right offensive. They weren't even all that evil I don't understand why they just didn't use nukes if they were so extreme! like the guys in star ship troopers, there the alien bugs didn't have souls and they for whatever reason saved their nuke till the end. I was like why not just carpet bomb the place with nukes then go in and mop up? maybe they did away with nukes in the future ok maybe, but still why not just send in unmanned aerial vehicles to do all the work, why do you even need people flying them directly, obviously their cameras and raidos still work in the “Vortex” which was a bunch of malarky why did all their other electronics work? AHH Sorry its offensive and unabashedly preaching to a 5 year old I hate it.

there were mercs in abyss and aliens and it wasn't this offensive. but i get your point, it wasn't that these people are representing a particular race or group of people its just the job description required them to be evil guns for hire, point taken.

I agree totally! This is a sci fi epic! I want larger than life characters, I want heroes and villains. This isn't a slow paced critique of society even if there is obvious allusions to our own world. This is a story of legendary characters not the average person.

but again why is it only white people that signed up for this?

As much as I loathe the plot of the film, your review is inspiring me to see it now just for the general and douche corporate guy.

This film is, to borrow the phrase from my English Classes (Woo for a class actually worth something!), “emotionally dishonest”. Cameron does not intend for the viewer to feel their own emotions or to draw their own conclusions. No, he intends for the viewer to feel what he tells them to feel. When a corporate gets killed, you cheer. When a mercenary gets killed, you whoop! When a Na’vi is hurt, you cry out in terror. When a Na’vi is killed, you weep for the unjust loss.

Everything Cameron said before the movie’s release lead me against watching it for plot purposes. The Na’vi were made to be these sexy loveable creatures that EVERY VIEWER WANTED TO BECOME, by CAMERON’S OWN WORDS. The humanity, while not stated to be despicable straight-up, are made to come from a world they are about to completely trash and brutally re-locate the Aliens to get their shiny rocks. You aren’t supposed to feel any sympathy for anyone besides the main characters and the Na’vi.

The sad thing is, if not for the over-the-top he forces upon you, this movie would have a VERY big instance of moral grey. The wasteland of Earth? It’s over-populated by about 20 billion people. The ruined ecosystem? Because nuclear plants were spat out all over the place to deal with energy demands, with predictable hollywood results.

How could this be turned moral grey? Unobtanium fixes ALL OF IT, at least partially / slightly. It allows near-FTL travel, meaning humans can get off the rock and colonize other planets in other star systems. It allows FTL communication, meaning policing and supply management is a possibility (allowing more people to be transported off-earth). Lastly, it’s a room temperature super-conductor meaning less energy required (more efficient transfer), and less energy saturation. The less energy required means less nuclear plants, which means less nuclear run-off. Less nuclear plants due to the super-conductors and less nuclear plants due to evacuating people. Heck, let us assume that only 1% of the population is viable for evacuation in the next 50 years, or 5 journeys from Earth to Pandora to Earth again. That’s still 200,000,000, or THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF BRAZIL that is removed from the planet. Hell, assuming an equal population / nuclear plant ratio, that’s still roughly 175 nuclear power plants offline just from the evacuation. Assuming a simple 10% efficiency increase from a ROOM TEMPERATURE SUPER CONDUCTOR, and again a population / nuclear plant ratio similar to france, that’s a further 1740 nuclear power plants shut down. In other words, giving “just” 1% of Earth’s population relocated to off-world colonies and “just” a 10% efficiency increase in nuclear plants from a room temperature super conductor, a little under 2000(!) nuclear power plants would be shut down, with an average of at least 47500 tonnes of nuclear waste no longer produced YEARLY.

Of course, (if the reviews I hear are true,) Cameron ignores this little point (which might make the human mining of Pandora almost tolerable / acceptable), and instead just focuses on the fact that “Humans want profit, humans gonna kill them some blue-skinned injuns!”

Just got back from watching the movie, and I have to say that:

1. The CGI for the Na'vi and the creatures looks like its bathed in oil. What I mean by that is that it looks way, way too smooth, like they put absolutely no effort into the textures of these creatures. I realize that they're aliens, but no “special effects” should look this unrealistic, especially when they're being touted as a revolution for movies.

2. The plot is only okay. Its certainly not a revolution in sci-fi storytelling, and it doesn't seem like something Cameron put much thought into when making this movie. But overall, its decent.

3. The paper-thin underlying theme that Americans are always bad, greedy, and hungry for oil (in this case, unobtainium) is very much racist. So what if Americans have done really bad things in the past (such as attempting to exterminate the Native Americans, which truly was awful), other cultures have done things just as bad, if not worse. Some examples that come to mind are the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989, radical Islamists' terroristic acts against the entire world (not just America), the Holocaust, brutal dictatorships that have been going on for decades (Cuba, China, and Iran are three names that come to mind), etc, etc. But I guess since James Cameron is God, we should all just accept the fact that America is secretly behind everything evil in the world, that we are the scum of the earth, and that we should be constantly reminded of our villainy…yeah right. Take that crap somewhere else James Cameron, because I'm not buying it.

Other than all of that, it was an okay movie. It definitely wasn't worth the money, but it did keep me occupied for a couple of hours. And that last battle sequence was really, really good. But that's about it, nothing else special about it.

I have to say something about your examples for point number 3; Cuba was a US-backed dictatorship before Castro's revolution set up a Communist government on the island in the late 1950s. China's previous government was backed by the US in the last couple of years before Mao's forces won in 1949 and that goverment (the Kuomintang, headed by Germeralissimo Chiang Kai-Shek) was anti-democratic. Iran's revolution in 1979 sprung from the repressive government of the Shah, whose SAVAK secret police was trained by the CIA (the Shah himself was restored to his throne by a CIA-engineered counter coup in 1953.) All of these are bad examples for your case because the US had something to do with how they acted. Better examples would be Mussolini's Fascist Italy, Japan before 1945, and the horrible actions of the Ottoman Empire during WWI (the prime example being the Armenian Genocide, which the turks still won't admit happened.)

As far as “USB hair” is concerned, it actually doesn't sound too bad. I'm going to assume you played Mass Effect. Well,if you remember,ME had the Asari,the female humanoid aliens with hair tentacle things. Hair tentacles allow them to do pretty much the same thing – merge their consciousness with that of another being,temporarily fusing their nervous systems together. In fact,if I remember correctly,that's an integral part of the Asari reproductive process. I dunno,I thought it was a pretty cool concept.

As for the “floating mountains = bullshit” thing… Maybe it's some sort of magnetic anomaly or some shit. Actually,from what I hear on the internets,one of the reasons it took Cameron 15 goddamn years to finish the movie is his maniacal attention to detail. Apparently,he hired a bunch of scientific consultants,actual doctors of botany and zoology,to explain and ground in reality every single bizarre alien plant,every single floating jellyfish and every single little bug that you see on the screen. It's kind of like when the Command & Conquer developers hired actual scientists to theorize and deduce the history of discovery,the possible structure and the physico-chemical properties of Tiberium within the bounds of the current understanding of physics and chemistry (!). Yes,they actually did that.

Hell,he hired a linguist to develop the Na'Vi language from scratch. I haven't even seen the movie,but goddamn,you gotta admire that kind of dedication.

Yay! The return of your brother!

And a spiffy new Add Comment section too!

When George Lucas conceived Star Wars, he clearly drew inspiration from WW2, Nazis vs Allies, nobody doubts that. Even when making Terminator 2, Cameron said in his commentary that he drew inspiration from the whole tension brought on by the cold war and the sense of impending nuclear apocalypse. My point? People write stories based on reality and current politics, that's where some writers get their ideas from.. Avatar is no different. I really don't take this movie to be a message that America is bad and white people are bad… he just constructed a story drawing inspiration from current real world conflict. Well, that's my take.. and hey, I'm not saying Cameron makes the best stories, he doesn't, but when it comes to bringing it to life on screen, I'm sure you'll agree, he's a master!

Oh, and about not using nukes, the CEO guy explained that in the first part of the movie.. shareholders don't want that kind of bad press surrounding the operation. If it wasn't for that, I'm sure they would have just gone in and nuked them, but that's rarely a first solution.. usually people try diplomacy first, I think. They tried that, then they tried gassing them, but then they felt provoked by how they were shooting back with arrows so the colonel decided to step it up and switched to incendiaries and it when on from there to dropping the daisy-cutters, which is like nuking them.

I have to ask tho, why was CS gas the only thing they tried, why not unbearably loud annoying sounds, stink bombs, agent orange, or heck why not even use the place a dump for human waste and see how long they stay? They just jump from cs gas to lets f'n kill these blue monkeys!

Gah and as usual I forget to add something…

I think I like the new comments system here. I really understand why it was necessary for a change, and I hope this helps you keep better track of what's going on, and keep things up to standard. Your product is way to good for it to be brought down by internet idiots.

(I'm watching this a second time as I add this, and your expressions in the first part of Miles' review STILL slays me!)

Why in the fuck did they cut them out?

well maybe it was just because this was sold more as a sci-fi than a fantasy. Dragon Hunters is a fantasy movie hence magic could make them float. It looks freakin cool, but it doesnt make a lot of sense no. maybe the unubtanium provided some psychic link between the trees on the floating mountain and the ground trees and they were kept from flying out into space by love. :D to me its no big deal I have other problems with the movie.

Please give us more Spoony and Miles in the future. You guys are great to watch on movies.

First of all, the CGI in Avatar is groundbreaking. Never before has CGI managed to render a humanoid face with such detail without it looking supremely creepy, and I really do think it will change how CGI is done in the future, and change it for the better. Avatar was the first CGI film to successfully mount the other side of the Uncanny Valley.

Second, I like Miles’s comparison to Dances with Wolves–I hadn’t thought of that one. But, when I saw Avatar, I was looking at it through the lens of the science fiction genre, and I didn’t see a morality play. What I saw was essentially V told from a different point of view, which IS pretty novel for science fiction, and is an interesting twist on the standard bug-eyed monster invasion sci-fi plot. As the movie went on, I also thought of Aliens, with the scheming corporate masters putting innocent people at risk for profits. But I also think it’s a bit ingenuous to take a science fiction movie to task so hard for not exploring a unique theme. George Lucas took The Hidden Fortress and put it in space, and people still blow him on a regular basis–Cameron moves Dances with Wolves to space, and we’re supposed to think it’s derivative? Feh, I say, feh. Avatar is a very good addition to the science fiction movie catalog, and it’s CGI is groundbreaking.

Keep up the good work.

Damn Spoony, once again you manage to review a movie in such a way that a person that is excited for that movie, feels crappy for liking it in the first place. Do you ever go into the cinema thinking, “i’ll just try to enjoy it for what it is and have a good time”?Part of being a reviewer is KNOWING YOUR AUDIENCE, but clearly you missed that point. Because we have not seen a gazillion movies, and most of us go see a movie because we 1. Want to or 2. Give it a fair shot, so next time, try to review movies in a way that we can RELATE to you and your review.I like you, im a fan, i’ve been for a long time now, but out of all the video’s its the movie reviews that make ME feel crappy.

Carter Burke rules.

Seriously, this 2012 Bullshit has eaten the remains of the History channel alive and fuled a huge panicky group. Thousands of people contacted NASA thinking the viral site for this film was real, some CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE. Seriously, this 2012 shit needs to STOP.

Say what you want about Avatar as a film, but 2012 is a work of EVIL. It is the lowest form of scum that preys on the fears of humanity. People believe this shit, and that film adds fule to the fire. Avatar might be preachy, but it won't KILL PEOPLE!

Mark my words, people will sell everthing they own, they will be devastated when nothing happens, and they will kill themselves.

I dont know why you try to say that the concept of the hair USB port thing is so out there that you can't accept it. You accepted that a gold band ring can make a 3 foot tall furry foot person become invisible so the concept of a totally alien world where these creatures evolved from a world with a super network of plants and animals is just too far out there?

There are 3 things you can say in any story that should put that away. 1 – It's magic, 2 – its super advanced technology, 3 its COMPLETELY ALIEN TO US. You can accept magic and super advanced technology, but oh no- things that evolved differently on another world far away? That's too far out there.

I also think considering you talked about all the hype you would also know a bit more about the 3D. All that talk about some kind of “new technique” used. It's not a Gimmick or a trick kinda 3D- its immersion. It's depth. Half of that hype was all about this. And you didn't even see it like that? You went in with that hype all running though your head- and you watched a version that half that hype didnt even fit? Wow.

There is just- SOOO much about what you said that makes me wonder how you enjoy any kind of fantasy or science fiction. When Darth Vader started choking a guy with “the Force” did you throw you hands up and say “BULL CRAP!”? When Gandalf stood up to the giant fire demon with a stick did you get pissed off that the demon didnt just smack him off the ledge and go after em?

No I don't think Avatar was the greatest movie ever! It was pretty! That's mostly it. Being an artist I like that- story was old but told well and i quickly remembered I didn't throw indians off my lawn and I didnt make african's work in my garden and Im not responsible for what my great great great- no wait- my family wasnt even around for any of that. Im sure someone had a man servant or something… Regardless- I know its not my fault. Why feel bad? Why not just feel bad for the Blue people? They are trying to make them more real- which is hard because they look so alien to us. So they make you feel sad for them getting killed! Not make you feel bad because once upon a time their were slaves and natives where we live now.

I find it funny that it's not that you hating the movie is what makes people upset- its why- your inability to accept things as fantasy or beyond understanding. Would you head literally explode if we found a planet where creatures had USB connections? After all… it's a big Universe. As unlikely as it may be here on Earth there is actually a moderate chance that such a thing COULD ACTUALLY EXIST or will exist. We ourselves are working on creating biological computers- it might not be that far off where we will have a physical or wifi connection with our computers and cars…

It's hilarious how apparently any of us who didn't love Avatar must not have given it a fair chance, or some such bullshit.

Here's a theory. Maybe some people just recognized that it was a bad movie that depended entirely on flashy visuals and director name recognition to get gullible idiots into theaters. The story has been rehashed so many times, and it wasn't even told well in this film. As an artist, it sickens me that people are raving about this CGI wank-fest.

I fully agree with Noah on this one.

“long-ish time viewer, first time poster”

If i ever end up watching Avatar, it will probably be when it's eventually on one of the super channel's in a year or so of time.
I really agree about the CG factor, in that it's really overused and rubs me the wrong way aswell. I grew up watching alot of films from the 70's and 80's, and from that I hold traditional effects like wire work, stop frame, latex appliances etc, pretty close to me.

Your brother has pretty much the same outlook as i do,
it doesn't matter so much if a plot is re-used, it's HOW it's re-used, and how entertaining it ends up being.
I chuckled at “cop that doesn't play by the rules”, the first thing that popped into my head was Cobra.

Great review.

I just like to add to Matrix rip-off claims. Cameron actually came up with the mech controlling thing

Early James Cameron student film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53UL_dUqY5s#t=2m17s

spoony clearly you do not know anything about sci-fi movies…

calm down people, its a damn opinion. if you like avatar, then FUCKING LIKE IT!!!

Thank you Spoony, for being one of the few people to rant on the Fern Gully aspect of this movie. The moment I saw the second trailer I knew where this movie was going and it wasn’t gonna be pretty.

I’ve lived through the patronizing movies of the 90′s and their foul and poisonous ash still linger in my gut. No more, I tell you, no more!

It bugs me when people say they can't suspend disbelief with CGI. Really? You have no trouble suspending disbelief with stop-motion animation and people in rubber costumes? No trouble with normal animated movies? Maybe you have an arguement where there's constant blending of live-action with CG, but like Myles said – Avatar is essentially an animated feature, and the few places where they do blend live with CG it's done more seemlessly than any movie ever.

More importantly Cameron has managed to solve numerous animation problems with his new process of motion capture. Every CG movie I've seen with rendered humanoids has issues where their movement and facial animations look unnatural, too smooth is the best way I can describe it. The Na'vi in Avatar don't have this problem at all, their movements are incredibly lifelike, this alone is a big step forward in CGI technology – and it's not the only one Avatar makes.

In fairness I agree with many of Noah's other complaints, the movie is derivitive and quite silly at times, but it didn't detract much for me. Just something about a film that's plot revolves around 12 ft tall blue aliens defending their home against the EVIL earthlings makes me not want to take it too seriously. In fact many of the rediculous moments were just silly enough to have me chuckling and enjoying the movie a little more. Of course the staying power comes from the top-of-the-line visual effects and superbly crafted action sequences, two things I'm kinda a sucker for.

Oops, double post, sorry.

So much for my cool and smooth introduction.

Not gonna lie to you. Your reaction to the film screams more of a position of “Well everybody else likes it, so I'm going to hate it so I can seemingly have the unique and on the edge viewpoint of said film”. Why do I accuse you of that? Because sometimes I get like that myself. However I've learned as I've gotten older, to be more objective regardless of hype, to balance out my thoughts on certain mediums and see the good and the bad, and while you did that in a minor way I gotta say your opinion was in some parts kind of ridiculous.

I won't go into it fully considering alot of people have stated similar feelings (Josh Martin and kevindurham have done a good or close to what I'd say in said response) but I will say this. When I went into the movie, I went into it pretty blind. I never read up on the movie, only saw brief clips and pictures of the Na'vi and not once went to Wikipedia or any other similar site to read the plot. While I saw the South Park episode with the whole “Dances With Smurfs” reference and the revelation of the movie being Avatar, having no knowledge of the plot I never really made the connection. So when I walked out of the theater I walked out pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed the movie, having not cared either way if I would.

Anyways, the one issue I gotta address that others have is the whole “White Guilt” thing. Do you feel white guilt? Because while the story did have the basic relation to Dances With Wolves, I never felt it was being too “preachy” because it felt more of a backdrop for character. As I watched it I was more drawn into the story of Jake and his connection to the Na'vi which in my mind is what the story is really all about. It's about escapism in alot of ways. Jake having lost the use of his legs, gets a second chance as a Na'vi to live a fuller life than he could as a human. The movie begs for you to fall in love with these people and to cheer for them as their journey puts them in peril of losing their homes and their lives. If you felt talked down to, you missed what the intent was because as stated obviously, the “White Guilt Trip” has been done in much stronger tones in other movies.

And the science? Please do suspend your disbelief sir. Or else you'll fall into the “there's no sound in Space, so why do we hear lasers in Star Wars?” crowd, nitpicking and subsequently sucking the joy out of any movie that doesn't have it's science down to a 100% reality (because again, movies can be about entertainment and escapism as well)

Oh and one more thing, 3-D wasn't bad and it didn't end up being too distracting, infact one of the many jokes for the night was that we were all too cool cause we “wear our sunglasses at night” haha.

Spoony, you are totally right. This movie was absolutely awful. I hated almost every second of it. I want my $11.25 back.

Okay this is getting ridiculous now people. I've seen comments that glorify “Avatar” and people that basically making shrines to it and worshiping it. On the other hand we have people that see “TEH DEVIL IN IT” and want to destroy Avatars reputation to the best of their ability. Soon we will have World War III based on that! Calm down people! This is not a perfect cinema. Yes. Neither it is piece of crap! It's “popcorn entertainment” I forward to “Totally Rad Show nr 143” all people who think it sucks YOU TOO SPOONY!!! CG- is not a bad thing! Stop being so racist about it!

So you’d rather see 2012 and it’s 28000 foot wave that can somehow sustain itself all the way to mt everest? How can you even compare that to avatar? while I agree avatar wasn’t the best, 2012 just made me angry at how stupid it expected me to be. How can you even compare the two?

Wow, dude, you just have so much hate. It's just a movie. You're complaints are childish, and over exaggerating as well.

Like the point of them saying their sensors can't track them was so the Na'vi could ambush them, and not be targeted by missiles and what not.

They didn't slaughter humans either. They were unjustly attacked by humans, and had to defend themselves.

And saying they're just like Jar Jar Binks… really? These are stupid, nonsensical complaints.

The humans can't bomb the crap out of the Na'vi from because that's retarded. They didn't have the money to fix Jakes legs, they won't have the money to waste bombs and such like that. That would also make for a lame movie.

Having the Na'vi lose wouldn't be more powerful either, it would just be a sad ending, where the bad guys won. That's not what Cameron wanted in his movie, it's however he wants it to be, being his movie. You can make a movie where the ending is the way you want it, if you like.

And so many of you people get so offended by the message. Chill out and enjoy the movie for what it is. The message doesn't even matter, it's about the experience of the movie. You don't have to get so pissy over the message, you don't accomplish anything and it's pointless. If you could get over your overly critical self, then maybe you could enjoy the movie. It's a great visual spectacle, and a nicely told story, with good pacing, and funny cliches.

The film perpetuates racist stereotypes of native americans that were outdated when the European invaders landed.

Calling Avatar anything more than a decent sci-fi flick is giving it far too much credit. I didn't hate the movie, but I felt like it didn't really do or say anything that hadn't already been said or done in dozens of movies before. The CGI was pretty, but it didn't really immerse me in the movie's world. On the contrary, I felt reminded that I was simply looking at a bunch of special effects in many scenes in the movie.

Calling Avatar a load of shit if a bit much, though. It was a decent sci-fi flick, nothing more!

This reminds me of film brains review of inglorious bastards. love you spoony, but you deserve an Arnolds middle finger to the face

you guys need to stop your dick measuring contest

why dont you tell the poor chap the plot hole that ticked your bomb.

I agree more with Spoony's brother than Spoony here. I love Spoony's reviews but you must've had so much hype for this film, that it made it virtually unsatisfactory from the start. Take it for what it is, I don't care about the history or creation of the movie but just the movie itself. An unbiased approach is the only way to go when you watch an otherwise unconventional film. Suspension of disbelief, in this review Spoony you are lacking this entirely. Throw all other plots away and just take the movie for what it is. I don't even have to see the movie to make this claim, you have judged the film on your past experiences solely and have over-analyzed this picture. Whenever I watch a movie, I grow into the film and take on its qualities, I deny any predisposition I have… otherwise, why would I have seen the film willingly? Having an open-mind is important to any situation not just in watching films. It is unfortunate you could not get around your stubborn and unchangeable attitudes towards this film.

Not really it isn't. People are asshats, it's simple as that. One dance around the internet will show you that simple fact. I found it quite easy to side with the Na'vi. It's their freaking planet! Forget anything else, forget preconcieved notions of “Dances with Wolves” and you've got a story about sentient creatures being attacked for their resources by an alien civilization. It just so happens that in this situation we're the aliens so we get slaughtered. This is how it plays out in plenty of movies and this is no different.

In this regard the whole “white guilt” line doesn't figure in because honestly this is how the army was largely portrayed in media until recently. In most movies, especially during the '90's when this was written, the army was a bunch of psycopaths who wanted to kill, kill, kill. This isn't really all that different. However people want to see what they want to see in the movie so they walk away with things like this which is confusing beyond belief.

I have to disagree with you. Shouting “It's not the movie it's just you” sort of invalidates anybodys arugment glad you found a movie you liked though.

Merry Xmas.

I disagree. I've actually quite enjoyed this years movies. You had everything from overblown tripe like Transformers 2 to some really well done sci-fi moves like Moon. But for me while Avatar isn't the worst movie of the year (that gem of an award goes to New Moon,) it's the worst Sci-Fi released this year in my eyes.

You know what Mr. Cameron, apply this technology to Aliens, the best movie you ever directed/ever will direct and I will love you.

I agree more with what your brother says at the beginning, mainly because I hadn't heard anything beyond the trailer and was generally entertained. When thinking about it afterward, it would strike me as odd, but I would be willing to see it again, because the story line is, at least, somewhat engaging. Essentially, if you are looking to relax and stop thinking, it is a good movie. (perfect for recovering from finals)

Spoons, I gotta say, I really think your personal bias against CG murdered any chance of you taking any enjoyment of this film. No one can say the story mattered. it's been done, yeah, whatever. Oh, and the Plot is based on the national story of Brazil…. so were all the other ones, but yeah.
but if we have to discount the plot, cause the plot's been done over and over… what IS the movie? if the plot is just there to give the rest of the movie an excuse to exist, what is the point?
it's kinda like saying “god damnit, this romance has too much romance in it!”
I donno, this is a CG movie… if you *hate* CG… how can you review it with any level of credibility?
the visuals were very good, and it was honestly difficult for me to distinguish between standard cinematography and CG.
Maybe thats just me…

All in all, I probably just disagree (and If I agreed, I wouldn't be complaining ;P), so I guess quit having a different opinion than me ;)

Waiting for the next one :D

The story isn’t great but I did not have a problem with it. I did not get annoyed at the film being preachy because it wasn’t directly preachy and I like films telling morals as long as it’s said in the least corny way. I even expected Jake being a pacifist and not kill any marines during the final fight. I also like the idea of their hair being somewhat a USB connection to anything in Pandora. It had a magical element to it and I rolled with it as the movie is a fantasy of sorts. Although I did have a problem with the floating mountains, there’s no explanation given or even I can think of that can make that happen. I like the movie. I saw it in 3d and on visual entertainment alone I am sold.

Well, of course Spoony, if you criticize the movie thinking “Dance with Wolves” obviously you'll get the wrong idea.

They are different movies man. Yeah, I know the premise is the same, but comparing Avatar and Dance with Wolves or The Last Samurai is like comparing Heath Ledger's Joker to Jack Nicholson's Joker. They are esentially the same character, but in a completely different level and tone.
I mean, no one says that you're a crap critic because we compare you to Angry Joe or AVGN or NC… You are what you are: Reviewers of games and movies. But each of you is unique in a way.

Don't make comparisons, Noah. That is just stupid.

I thought this movie was really, really good. Action scenes, special effects, romantic moments… Fuckin' giant robots! Michelle Rodriguez!! It had everything! and you say it's crap? WTF man?

I really like what you said, and I second your point about comparisons

I understand your feelings towards Avatar, but saying that 2012 is better than Avatar is like saying that Jumper is better than Avatar lol. 2012 was terrible, awful, awful movie. It's like Jumper: tries to be more than what it is and not accepting that it's just a typical hollywood movie. Of course, Avatar is, in a way, like this, but it has a normal story and it's a fun adventure. It's not epic, not by a long shot, but it's a fun movie. Though, the action scene is way too long and the character development should have had way more depth. Nonetheless, an entertaining movie.

“We are fighting Terror with Terror” – “But they haven't done anything”…

How ironic: Spoony unintentionally mentions the pretty obvious fact, what is so bloody stupid about the supposed “Fight against Terrorism”, but sadly he still doesn't get it and still sticks to US propaganda.
You claim your brother switched of logic and reason, but in reality it is the contrary: In your blind rage you lack any of these virtues, which you brother indeed shows!

Spoony, think about it and you will see that actually this movie makes very much sense.

You want an example of breaking susspension of disbelief?
What about the planet, in about a 10,000 mile orbit from Pandora's stratosphere, in a jupiter to earth ratio. Chances are, the big planet would eclipse pandora, and it would die.
And also apparently it's always 60 degrees, plantlife everywhere, the entire planet is a rainforest with no rain, and I know this, because if it did rain, they wouldn't sleep outside in their little treehouse, because there's a little thing called hypertension.

Also every single indigenous tribe was mixed with the na'vi. You had loin cloths, spears, everyone sitting in a circle singing their version of Kumbayah, having them stress the whole “Ancestors” thing, they'd have hunters & gatherers, like it was the stone ages, one guy had a bone through his nose, and my absolute favorite, sometimes durring battle, they'd yell “ALALALALALALALAH!”

I agree completley with spoonys problems save for the CGI. I guess being a gamer I can accept this 3d dominance. Hell in 99% of all games I own they use nothing but 3D so hey, I can still think its cool to look at. That being said.

But the rest of Spoony's comments: spot on.

It was Ok. Nothing more.

This was: Pocahontas meets Dances with wolves: IN SPAAACE!

Oh, and its one thing to talk about how its similar and how the movie is stealing. For instance the name “Unobtanium” is taken straight from The Core. Nitpicking but still. call it whatever but don't re-use original names. I mean come on! You even went through the trouble to make a slightly credible language and you STILL stole that name? Why? Cheap. Same can be said about the entire plotline. But it was nice to look at. Nothing more.

I thought that the subplot of his disability was fascinating and very, very well executed; his physical and mental unravelling as he delves further into this fantasy world is tastefully and believably shot and portrayed. Honestly, I would have loved to see that fleshed out some more… A lot of the stuff on Pandora I could give or take, honestly.

After Seeing Reviews, your reviews, and your opinion on most movies, I had a felling you weren't going to like this movie that much.

I was right apparently.

saw it in 3d. liked it a lot.

i saw it in 3-D, come to think of it, id rather see termanator…

When this movie was finally announced and I heard the story I actually called it “Fern Gully 3D”, Avatar is so damn derivative but like Spoony says even despite that the story was so boring, poorly paced and with such bad dialogue I don't recall a single line from the film, once you get over the visuals this was a terrible, terrible movie. This movie is nothing more than a special effects flash in the pan, bright and colorful but with no lasting power. We still look back at the original Star Wars trilogy as one of the high points of science fiction because of the amazing story, the only thing Avatar will be remembered as is an over hyped, overly long technical display.

To me this whole movie was just really dull. They seemed to pride themselves in all this CGI yet they didn't seem to really do much with it. There was no real point to the wild creatures until the very end, they were just shown in nature. Even if they were actual things and not CGI I'd be bored with them.

Nothing seems quite so magnificent when it's computer generated. The entire time the focus was just on the environment all I could think was “Ok, impressive CGI skills, but it's not real”. I could never really share in the wonderment that was meant to be had by the characters just because I knew that it was fake.

As for the dullness, most of it just came from the simple plot and how generic everything seemed. Yes, things were taken from a ton of other movies (the sounds of every animal were stolen from Jurassic Park), but I figure if you can make it interesting and unique in some way it's redeemable, and this wasn't. The plot was the classic “Good vs. Evil, the protagonist sees the error of his ways, he tries to redeem himself”, there were no real traits of its own. It's basically taking a narrow and shallow plot and making it pretty.

As for the problems some people have with the characters, they just aren't believable. With the Colonel (or whatever rank he was), he had that hint of insanity, which some people like because it gives him his own flair, but some people want characters that seem realistic and believable. It's just a matter of preference. There were also some horribly blatant archetypes and stereotypes that shined through (the classic environmentalist and the rednecks waiting to shoot some injuns) which, to me at least, killed the idea of complex character traits.

My opinion in short: shallow movie with some glitter thrown on.

To me this whole movie was just really dull. They seemed to pride themselves in all this CGI yet they didn't seem to really do much with it. There was no real point to the wild creatures until the very end, they were just shown in nature. Even if they were actual things and not CGI I'd be bored with them.

Nothing seems quite so magnificent when it's computer generated. The entire time the focus was just on the environment all I could think was “Ok, impressive CGI skills, but it's not real”. I could never really share in the wonderment that was meant to be had by the characters just because I knew that it was fake.

As for the dullness, most of it just came from the simple plot and how generic everything seemed. Yes, things were taken from a ton of other movies (the sounds of every animal were stolen from Jurassic Park), but I figure if you can make it interesting and unique in some way it's redeemable, and this wasn't. The plot was the classic “Good vs. Evil, the protagonist sees the error of his ways, he tries to redeem himself”, there were no real traits of its own. It's basically taking a narrow and shallow plot and making it pretty.

As for the problems some people have with the characters, they just aren't believable. With the Colonel (or whatever rank he was), he had that hint of insanity, which some people like because it gives him his own flair, but some people want characters that seem realistic and believable. It's just a matter of preference. There were also some horribly blatant archetypes and stereotypes that shined through (the classic environmentalist and the rednecks waiting to shoot some injuns) which, to me at least, killed the idea of complex character traits.

My opinion in short: shallow movie with some glitter thrown on.

I particularly enjoyed your morality rant about the Avatars'undeniable “white guilt” theme. Thank you Spoonyone, for letting me know I'm not alone in the world.
I had almost the exact same argument with my mother (who, of course, loved the movie) after I described it as “just another movie about the Evil Corporate White Man trying to keep Mother Nature down”.

But seriously, It's basically the bastard love-child of Pochahantas and Fern Gully with multi-million dollar special effects”.

Eh, it's just another Cowboys and Indians film… but I like those! They're simple, fun, interesting. And you know, as far as those go, Avatar was pretty fun.

Yet when the shit hits the fan who does the world turn to? Yeah that's right, America. You're welcome.

I went to the cinemas to see this in 3D, and I loved it! I don't know anyone who didn't like it, they all at least enjoyed it enough to sit through.
Although, it did get a bit too much near the end as I really needed to go to the toilet, hehe. Might be a good idea for me to make an avatar review site at Cool Site Maker.
By the way, is that “Big trouble in Little China” in the background?

I KNEW I WASNT THE ONLY 1 THEY DID LOOK LIKE THE MECHS IN MATRIX RVOLUTIONS!!

What's with all these 80s era critics bashing the CG? The problem with movies loaded with CG effects is they tend to not have a good story. CG is a really practical way to do anything these days since it's come to the point where I could just set my rig to render overnight once I got everything ready and I could have anything I want.

The problem isn't the CG it's just the lack of interesting stories.

As far as the unabashedly greedy corporate bastards go, they briefly mention “the aliens return to their dying world” as the remnants of the camp are being escorted out. So presumably, there is a global energy, there is no more oil or coal and Unobtanium is the answer to Earth's problems.

I believe that Unobtanium was initially used as a placeholder but no one could come up with something else.

Hearing this movie, I'd have to say I preffered the villains. xD Aw man, the villains just seems so stereotypical that it becomes funny. Like Naruto The Abridged when Itachi had a monocle and twirly mustache.

The irony is that George Lucas said in an interview in 1980 (I think it is RedLetterMedia review of Phantom Menace) and said was effects are there to add. Never accept a movie that uses effects as reason to see it and not the story or performances. Because then it ceases being a film and should not be considered one.

No, he can suspend his dis-belief but when you set up these flying mountains in our world, our existence, then it is impossible. Simple as. Now if you take middle-earth from lord of the rings, you can have as many flying fucking mountains as you freaking want because its a completely fictional world. Also a movie being fun and entertaining doesnt make it good. I can have fun watching a uwe boll film, laughing at how bad it is, I'm enjoying it, but its still a pile of shit. Also you are just proving that people think that having good special effects makes a good movie.

Actually, if they just had shown that only the rocks are effected by the anomaly (like had more just flying around and bouncing off each other with normal stuff hanging down) it would have been OK. What gets me is that yes, there are waterfalls. They point out how misty the place is around there so why isn't it raining constantly? If it always rained, the waterfalls would seem more in-place.

Or they could, you know, take the waterfalls out. But with a place that's covered in mist implies there is lots of water in the air, so you might expect it to rain often.

Well sorry to insult your holy orders movie which was good but not really that great and still had flaws. I actually enjoyed Avatar almost exactly as much as District 9. I actually like Avatar somewhat more than District 9 (because I like epic films rather than grim n' dirty films), but District 9 wasn't as slow. The fight at the end was almost exactly like the fight at the end of both movies. Both had the same amount of flaws for me, but different flaws.

You got some commander guy fighting someone who is somehow mixed with the alien race who used to be on the other side and they have an awesome fight. The last fight in both movies were both very well done. It's almost exact. The only difference is the alien human in District 9 was the one in the mech armor.

Transformers is a sanity check, that movie was god awful. It had insulting characters, un-watchable action, retarded plot, shea lebouf.. etc. It's a sanity check because spoony would probably ask me what I thought of Transformers 1 or 2 and we would play the movie comparison game. It's that kind of a movie everyone should hate if they are sane (hence the name).

My problem with Avatar is that feeling that it could have been much better. It's a movie I really wanted to like much more but they just didn't cut it. Writers aren't as expensive as CGI stations, are they? With all the time they spent, they really should have improved the story.

I agree with what you said, but I perfer Avatar to 2012

Before i watch this video i just wanna say you spelt Pocahontas wrong.

That is all.

Hi! I'd just like to point out that Avatar had giant blue smurfs with sticks trying to beat up oppressive humans with guns … and district 9 had giant black cockroaches with laser rifles trying to beat up oppressive humans with guns.

I personally liked both movies equally… although the premise of both has been done many many times before.

You have a nice Siskel and Ebert thing going on with your brother. You should definitely do more movie reviews together. :)
I have to say, I enjoyed the movie on a purely visual level, but the story left me feeling bludgeoned to death with propaganda and I was thinking this is Fern Gully all over again, but I liked Fern Gully more.

Avatar was a carbon setting copy of a Russian novel.

“'e're gunna kill some injuns!!!”
“YEAHHH!!!”
…that's great.

The thing is that I don't think that most people are dimwitted 15 year olds that have been closed minded until they see Avatar. This movie was marketed as having universal appeal, and it really doesn't. And hey, a lot of Americans are fucking tired of Iraq too but it's not the American people who make all military decisions.

The thing is that when your movie tries to convey a message you have to do it in a subtle yet firm way. If you wanted to have an anti-Iraq war film, then make a film about how badly the Iraqi people are suffering or something. Don't just try to hammer it in a cheesy way , where your villains are redneck Marines that act in an overly-evil manner. American audiences won't identify with that at all and a lot of us just ended up rolling our eyes at the pretentiousness.

Here is this movie in one word: Macguffin!
The defining aspect of a MacGuffin is that the major players in the story are (at least initially) willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to obtain it, regardless of what the MacGuffin actually is. In fact, the specific nature of the MacGuffin may be ambiguous, undefined, generic, left open to interpretation or otherwise completely unimportant to the plot. (Examples might include money, victory/glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, etc….or something entirely unexplained.)
MacGuffins are sometimes referred to as plot coupons (especially if multiple ones are required, as in this movie) as the protagonist only needs to collect enough plot coupons and trade them in for a denouement.
And our first of many Macguffins in this creatively uninspired cinematic holocaust? Unobtanium, which is brought up once for about 5 seconds near the beginning of the movie and is, of course, hardly (if ever, I kept zoning out) brought up again.
Just take it at face value folks! All you really needed to know was that they were there for…some reason. Which is exactly all you really learn about the supposedly precious metal. Seriously, if you missed the first 5 minutes you don't even know why they're there. Not that it matters. They could have just said “Our mission is classified,” never uncover it and it would have been exactly the same movie! And there you have it: an explanation towards the lack of creativity about just the first scene that took longer to write than the entire first act! This movie is stupid on a stick!

I might suggest that the preachy anti-racism or anti-imperialism morals will stop being necessary when people stop acting that way (and make no mistake, there's still plenty of racism and imperialistic tendencies in North America and around the world). Not that I completely disagree with you–in most cases, as in Avatar and Ferngully, it seems like the writers don't really understand the issue at hand, and are just regurgitating stock morals with no depth–but I think it's a small price to pay to get masterpieces like To Kill a Mockingbird or Schindler's List.

I wasn't a huge fan of Avatar, even if the preachy morals weren't the biggest problem for me. It wasn't the preachiness that bugged me as much as the fact that it was such a predictable and simple plot, marketed as being an original and innovative movie. Like Noah, I think it's too long and, at best, an okay movie that didn't deserve the hype that it got.

I don't really have a problem with the use of CGI in movies, but I don't find it impressive either. It seems to me that it should just be a medium for art and design, not as the main feature of the movie. EVERY movie has CGI nowadays, and good technology doesn't guarantee that the art will be visually appealing (Avatar looked okay, but I didn't think it was anything to phone home about), and it certainly doesn't make up for a second-rate story. Perhaps if I had seen it in 3-D I might have liked it better, just because the effects might have distracted me from the derivative story.

I disagree with the end battle scene being good. ITS BULLSHIT! Why? Becouse all the while these guys are fighting, there's a glareing plothole in their battle plan: The Daisycutter…IS IN A MOTHERFUCKING SPACESHIP! Which means that they could simply fly the caarft in the thinner upper-atmoshpere of the planet and drop it from their where the Na Vi can't retaliate. Use your computers and calculate wind speed and simple trajectories, factor in the floating mountains…And DONE! You've got a quick and easy daisycutter surprise, and if the Na Vi try to intercept the bomb, they'll get their bones crushed by the explosive's massive acceleration. And since the sensory corroption they mentioned in the zone clearly doesn't effect light, you could even use modern electronics to make things more accurate.

And why did they land troops on the ground? The Na Vi have no AA cababilities beyond their dragons! Those men could have been put to better use gaurding the base!

and while george did break that rule..he did kinda learn from it. and did better in episode 2 and 3 (in my opinion)
but unfortunately i dont think james will either learn or even care.

yeah whats up with that?
what science did they have to make that seem plausible in anything?

i dont care what movie it is…put you cant have floating mountains on any planet….with or with out water falls…
and the pony tail usb crap is just insulting to the name of SCIENCE!!!!

preachy white guilt environmentalist movies make me want to chop down trees….so they actually lose and i feel better for wasting money to see this crap…

Well, I don’t know if this was mentioned in the previous over 500 comments, but here it goes. The mountains are possible, given their explanations. Seriously, you can even look it up in youtube. Ok, first, they want unobtainium because it is a super condutor, super conductors do crazy stuff, including, providing you have enough of it, make mountains fly. How? Well, it’s almost rocket surgery :P, but it works, you can look through youtube, and the wikipedia for superconductors, it is cool, and they said the mountais where made of super conductors, provided with the magnetic field of pandora, you know, like earth has one too, the superconductors oppose the variability to the magnetic field change…. my mermory is a bit rusty on that, but it works close to that, and since they waste no energy with heat and such, they won’t ever fall :P

I just think you just got too carried away with your inability to apply the required suspension of disbelief and the political undertones. I was expecting a very mediocre film, but I was pleasantly susprised ro really enjoy this film… but perhaps that’s because the pantheistic concept (the whole “everything is connected” concept) appealed to me and I actually did find the CGI convincing.

Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

Avatar seemed pretty unoriginal and uninspired to me. And I thought many of the effects were terrible, especially for the Na’vi.

“I have to wait till the science catches up with it” Cameron sounds more like Lucas more and more. Cause Episode 1 ended up being worth the 16 year wait since the last one.

Spoony, you completely echoed my thoughts on the movie about being condescending and obvious. James Cameron in the past was great at covering up the messages in his movies and not making them as preachy here.

Your brother made a good point about movies and they’re messages but sneaking in an insulting and preachy message into what is supposed to be a sci fi spectacle is a dick move.

I didn’t see any trailers to this movie before I watched it. I heard that it should be really great but didn’t know anything about the characters or the storyline etc.
While I watched the movie I wasn’t annoyed by a lot of things, though I could never fully suspend my disbelief (or how ever you say that).
Maybe it was because it was in 3D or maybe because the whole story was really cheesy. The humans (*cough* americans *cough*) were the worst. All I have to say is “we will fight terror with terror!!”. That line litterly killed the whole movie for me. But even before that they were totally unrealistic and annoying. And they called the mineral “unobtainium”…. omg.
I never saw dancing with wolves, but I saw Pocahantas… very similar. Very boring.

The CGI was good though.

i wouldnt say liberal, after all some of the best movies are liberal (apocalypse now to kill a mockingbird ect.)
but liberals who act like asses and rip people off while talking down to us in a pretentious tone?
FUCK THEM!!!

Poor Miles, it’s like Spoony keeps slapping him in the face with verbal debate.

Yeah, you go nazgulkickass, fight stupid shit with stupid shit.

Goddamn it boy, cut the douchebaggery. You’re not much better than the super-preachy and PC “libtards” you hate so much. I’m so fucking tired of this us vs. them mentality in politics, it gets us fucking nowhere and only serves to divide us even further and unfairly dismiss each other because we’re a part of some specific group. And actually, with this bullshit, you’re purporting that very black and white mentality spoony talks against in this video. You honestly think that no liberal who watched this movie got annoyed from all this completely unnecessarily intrusive, PC and over-simplified allegory to our world and its problems, EVEN if they’d agree with them in another context?

But, in an attempt to not deride the discussion entirely, I think Avatar is good for one viewing, and only in theaters or with a good home theater system (the former of which is too late now, of course). I managed to turn off my inner critic/brain somehow and just totally get into that beautiful, dreamy world, especially since I realize I thought of it more as a fantasy flick than a sci-fi one while viewing it, and thus didn’t criticize it as much as I would otherwise have. I mean, most of the time is spent in the “natural” world without much tech stuff going on at all, observing life and culture so much different from ours.

But yeah, it’s only good for one viewing. I doubt I’ll be able to immerse myself in that world again with a second viewing, since then I’d be noticing it’s flaws even more.

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!! spoony is on imdb i just noticed that ( your all going to be just like, fuck you for not knowing already)

it’s been a while since this vid came out but at the time i didn’t want to argue your points, you’re a critic, and a damn good one, your bias is what makes you so passionate in your reviews and people love that. that being said, here i go, i’ve watched avatar twice in theaters, at least twice at home. Honestly, on some levels, i really love it. the phenomenon about it i think is how big it was. everyone i know has seen it. my neighbors, my friends, my grandparents, my parents, people i could give two shits about. and they all interpret it differently, sometimes shaping the plot and message to fit their beliefs even if they’re religious… that’s how god-damn cool it is. (i said cool, not good) There was titanic backlash, and of course the backlash for avatar was felt before the movie came out. it was over-hyped, over-advertised, over-everything. Personally, and i speak for a lot of geeks out there, i enjoyed it because i got to be a part of it. silly i know, but really. I’m 19, and a cinema junkie. i was a kid when the star wars prequels came out, looking at how much shit is dropped on those movies i was little irritated. because the critics were shit-talking my childhood, and all this nostalgiac-childhood crap is the main gripe with the prequels in the first place. “OH THE PREQUELS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!” but at this age, yeah, it sucks that lucas went back and put jar-jar’s voice and hayden christiansen at the end of return. it sucks that by making the prequels he almost killed the originals. now the only one i’ll watch and say, wow that was good, is empire strikes back. But i didn’t get to be a part of the originals when they came out. all i had was the matrix, and hollywood fucked that up too. Avatar was something i saw hyped, had my worries and anticipations, but went to a packed theater, and witnessed something that wasn’t just another movie. It was cliche, it was riddled with anti-war, and anti-imperialism references. on some levels it was dumb (unobtanium) and illogical (we would never go Gung-Ho ape shit on the only other humanoid race we know of) but it was my generations overblown sci-fi space epic. the scenery sucked the air out of the room, nobody said a fucking word. we got to see sigourney weaver at the age of 60 be smokin hot and hilariously sarcastic, the scenes with sam worthington would be unwatchable without her. Zoe saldana also makes geeks drool, and she makes the “avatar” side of the movie watchable. seriously, go back to the scene with her yelling at jake for betraying her ( of course that “yes i lied but that was before i fell in love with you” thing is SO overdone) zoe’s a great actress. stephen lang and giovanni ribisi also played such eye-rollingly predictable characters, yet we believed it. i know, i know. this was just such a great chance for geeks of the blade runner age to tear a mainstream movie to pieces for the fun of, well being cynical. but james cameron makes great movies, the guy’s got like 3 100% fresh movies on rotten tomatoes. that’s like the toy story franchise good. he’s a cocky asshole. but hype doesn’t sell alone, the top two grossing movies of all time are under his belt. of course that’s all people in the media care about is whether something is successful and not good. but avatar was good to me. i fully understand that ridley scott, darren aranofsky, stanley kubrick, and quentin tarentino are better directors who make better movies with one sixth the budget of avatar. but i’m a stoner/philosophy geek who finally got to be a part of something big, not only that but something big that addresses the collectivity of all life while still being fucking awesome to watch. i saw kids who would usually be running up and down the theater stairs just glued to the screen with their mom’s and dad’s smiling down at them with excitement that this was going to be their kid’s “star wars”. call me what you will. but that left an impression on me.

You guys remind me of my brother and me; it’s funny to see. He usually takes a stronger stance, while I tend to take a milder stance. Neither of us were huge fans of this movie though. Unusually, this movie was one of the things I tend to be more passionate (in my dislike).

The thing with Avatar, in my opinion, which makes it less effective of a “morality tale” than Dances with Wolves or The Last Samurai (neither movie I enjoyed too much) was that it was a fake culture. There was no nuances to the culture either, they were broadly and vaguely defined.

I recently read a book on the Opium War, which can be interpreted as Great Britain’s crime against China. Certainly, Britain did some terrible things there, but China was arrogant, refused trade agreements, and its soldiers committed war crimes as well.

I think Spoony’s point that the movie is being taught to a four year old is apt. It’s not that the message is overdone, although it might be, it’s that the black and white morality is boring. I enjoy walking out of a theater, finishing a book, or playing a video game that makes me wonder who to root for, or wonder why I want someone to even root for. Why didn’t they show the diplomats trying to negotiate or trade for the resource first? Why didn’t they show how relations slowly deteriorate over time? This story was fictional, there are some real, undeniable villains in the world’s history, but they’re not interesting.

Also, I agree that making the “connection to nature” cheapens the “we ought to preserve the environment” message. I’m sitting here thinking (not really) “well, if I had a freaking awesome kyu to manage nature, I’d want to save nature too!” There are some real values to the environmental message, some limited to personal, some pragmatic. The fact that they couldn’t come up with an emotionally resonating way to present those aspects of the message is not an excuse for lazy world building.

My biggest problem, caused by the points above, was that I was bored.

Sorry for the essay.

yeah

If want a movie like this, I will watch MERCENARY FIGHTERS, thankyouverymuch!

Got so fucking bored watching avatar. Like spoony was saying about the guilt trip, it’s been overused so much.

When you said the thing about plugging into trees and animals, I thought of the series “Crest of the Stars.”  There’s a genetically engineered race of beings called Abh who are designed to live in space.  They have a third eye (which is like a hole in the middle of their foreheads) that they put this tiara into and then use to plug into a ship and with their sixth sense, they can feel the ship–where it is in space, whether it’s damaged, etc.  They can pilot ships so well because they can feel everything the ship does and respond to environmental changes faster.  But, this race was designed for the purpose of traveling in space, so I buy the idea of them plugging themselves into a ship.  In Avatar, it sounds like they just somehow evolved that way.

There was no reason for Lucas not to develop Clone Trooper costumes for the prequel.  He just CGI’d the costumes because he could.  That is improper use of CGI, as you said with the blood effects.

You know what’s funny about the real Pocahontas and the “White guilt” thing?  She moved to England and dressed as an Englishwoman the rest of her life.