The Spoony Experiment - Because bad movies and games deserve to be hurt back!

Anonymous

Pissing on sacred grounds? Interesting term.

From my end, you won’t need to worry about any badmouthing. I had some hopes, but no high hopes or any real expectations out of this. Though it would’ve been nice of them to have taken a darker turn with Mickey, as it seemed like the perfect opportunity what with the general scheme and plot… But hey, guess you can’t put too dark a spin on Mickey, or else Disney gets angry. And you wouldn’t like it when Disney gets angry.

pariah

I fully agree, Spoony; Prince Of Persia with a Tron skin.
Why are modern videogames (especially movie tie-ins) so disappointing?
Still, we won’t know for sure till it’s released.

pariah

I fully agree, Spoony; Prince Of Persia with a Tron skin.
Why are modern videogames (especially movie tie-ins) so disappointing?
Still, we won’t know for sure till it’s released.

http://twitter.com/Solin_Outlander Jay Logan

Meh, turn of the millennium, was more or less when Disney started to fail for me. Granted, Pirates of the Caribbean was good… well, Curse of the Black Pearl was. Dead Man’s Chest was meh and At Worlds End just failed for me.

My point, Disney fails now. They do something worthwhile once in a blue moon, and that goes for video games as well as TV and Movie franchises. So being told that Tron: Evolution and Epic Mickey are not that good? I’m not all too surprised. Mildly disappointed, yes, but not surprised.

Who agrees that Disney needs to return to how it was pre-millennium?

http://www.google.com/profiles/BenLaserlove Anders Moberg

I’m psyched for Epic Mickey because even though I’ll admit it’s pretty generic-looking, the fact that they’re bringing up Oswald and all the forgotten Disney lore is so amazing.

Renaissance_nerd

i mean really… who doesn’t want to shove a corkscrew up Mickey’s ass?

Anonymous

Was that GlaDOS’ pissed off Disney equivalent?

http://twitter.com/ScaryReviews Lucas Allen

I’m sure Epic Mickey was meant to be a family game right there with the Lego Wii games like Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Maybe this’ll give the new generation their first look at Mickey Mouse, who is often named the best animated character along with Bugs Bunny. Say what you will about Disney, but I know they mostly hit the right notes with the family audience!

Haven’t seen the original TRON so I’m not too sure about the upcoming sequel coming out in 3D this Christmas. I know Jeff Bridges is in it since he was in the original. I know it’s a classic, but I’ll probably check out the original before seeing the sequel anytime I do.

http://twitter.com/UnfortunateWill William Pickett

Listening to the Epic Mickey people from E3 they were saying that the innovative part was the story and how it changed depending upon deciding the use the thinner to erase or drawing to create and the npc dialog would change depending upon those choices.

http://www.facebook.com/tjmac510 Travis McCollum

When I talked to the Tron PR guy and got a demo I was actually surprised. The combat seemed kind of hack and slashy but the free running ability by just holding down one button and moving forward and the lightcycle battles were pretty cool.

The Epic Mickey people were great and I must have spent 20 minutes there playing that demo. While it looks and feels kinda aimed at kids, I think Warren’s involvement and the care he put into the combat, the AI, the puzzles and the past references make it something entertaining for kids and adults.

http://twitter.com/seanash seanash

I’m actually really looking forward to Epic Mickey. But mostly for the story and the setting. There’s supposed to be characters from way early in Disney’s catalog that very few people remember, which is why I wanna play it. Cuz I’m a huge Disney Toon nerd.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Simon-May/1822007098 Simon May

I hope you weren’t being negative towards Super Mario Sunshine when you compared Epic Mickey to it, as the general hate Sunshine gets is not only annoying, but also completely unjustified.

http://twitter.com/nolanmcgarry Kefkaesque

I’m pretty sure that Spoony said he actually liked sunshine quite a bit, but I can’t remember when.
http://twitter.com/nolanmcgarry Kefkaesque

I’m pretty sure that Spoony said he actually liked sunshine quite a bit, but I can’t remember when.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Simon-May/1822007098 Simon May

I hope you weren’t being negative towards Super Mario Sunshine when you compared Epic Mickey to it, as the general hate Sunshine gets is not only annoying, but also completely unjustified.

http://twitter.com/jim350z Jamie Mitchell

epic mickey does not excite me and tron looks nice but i fell a nothing-ness towards it. It may be that after watching portal 2 this just pales in comparison.

http://twitter.com/jim350z Jamie Mitchell

at least give mickey the common courtesy of a reach around.

Renaissance_nerd

Fuck that i don’t wanna touch mouse dick, prolly has the plague.

Renaissance_nerd

Fuck that i don’t wanna touch mouse dick, prolly has the plague.

Anonymous

Is it only me or does Tron blow? Eye searing visuals, lame story, lame actors, lame screenplay… Why is this a cult movie?

Anonymous

Wow. Epic Mickey looks like shit.

First of all, I thought “Epic Mickey” was just supposed to be a working title. It’s humorous when it’s still in the alpha stages of construction, but as a release title it just sounds stupid.

Second, what happened to the steampunk theme they said they were going for?

And third, why the hell are there no voices besides gasps and evil laughs? Did the voice actors storm off the set when they saw what they were helping to make?

Ah well. All this makes me feel rather fortunate to be a Sony fanboy.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=212400354 Jacob Barnes

So GLaDOS is moonlighting in Disney games?

http://twitter.com/Deimos1984ad Zak Mahmud

Yeah I’m actually with you on Epic Mickey it’s sort of a meh game to me.

Anonymous

I can’t believe you didn’t say a word about Warren Spector working on this game. I know that’s no sort of exception, but at least a token mention of one of the greatest video game creators of all time like, “I’m disappointed with Spector’s work” or “I’d really like to know what Warren Spector has been doing with his time because he’s clearly not working on this.”

Anonymous

Speaking as someone who never saw the original Tron and don’t care about it or the sequel(or is it remake?) in the slightest, I must say that the ps3 game looks like it could be fun to play and so does the Wii game. As for Epic Mickey, I agree completly with your “Meh” reaction.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NP4OHROSJRZNA4KSDWNZVQ3TIA First L

Yeah, Spoony. Warren Specter made half your favorite games, and now he’s making Epic Mickey. Weird?

http://renaissance-geek.blogspot.com/ Jaebird

What I find disconcerting is I remember early interviews that the rabbit was set up to being the villain in Epic Mikey, who’s motivation is hate and jealousy for Mikey, and yet every cutscene I see him in he’s about as evil as a ladybug.

http://twitter.com/RookeeAlding Rookee Alding

I can’t stand the promo for Epic Mickey at all. Either have him speak, or have him silent. But all the little “ahs” and “ohs” and any other little mouth noise was not necessary at all. Also, who is this game suppose to be marketed too? The preview shows characters that haven’t appeared anywhere near Mickey in freaking decades,The Blob ( Disney adventures had a comic, Why do I remember that?) And Oswalt the Lucky Rabbit? I know his name. That’s it.

My first thought was, if any of the cut screens are anything like that promo. No one will want to play the game.

http://dragonacesg7.livejournal.com/profile Dragons_Dusk

…
Mickey was so much more Bad Ass in Kingdom Hearts 2…
the light cycle stuff looked better in that than the Wii Tron title also, especially on hard mode

Anonymous

You give kids too little credit.

When you say kids will like it just because it’s Mickey, I mean.

Mickey never appealed to me, or anyone I knew.

greycolumbus

No that was never the case. A lot of people just jumped to that conclusion after the concept art leaked.

http://twitter.com/downphoenix Downphoenix (Justin)

blatant cash in?

Video games are typically made for money, yes, as is all media these days, but I wouldn’t call this a blatant cash in, it looks to be every bit as good as any typical platforming game.

Still falling further and further from the tree, Spoony.

http://renaissance-geek.blogspot.com/ Jaebird

Leaked art, huh? That doesn’t really surprise me, anymore.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Andres-ZombieMan-Guzman/100001028660386 Andres ZombieMan Guzman

Why in the hell anyone would want a dark turn in Mickey???? Its Mickey freaking mouse!!! You can’t get more child friendly than that!

Seriously, I hate when people say ´´ Make it darker! That would make it better!“ fuck that! If something wasn’t meant to be dark, why change that?

http://www.warbox.us/ Tuxlar

I don’t know. That one Fantasia sketch seemed pretty dark to me.
http://www.warbox.us/ Tuxlar

I don’t know. That one Fantasia sketch seemed pretty dark to me.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Andres-ZombieMan-Guzman/100001028660386 Andres ZombieMan Guzman

Personally I think that Epic Mickey looks really interesting and the idea of painting or erasing things sounds fun to me. Besides that I heard that you can control some elements of the plot by painting characters or something like that . . .

http://www.facebook.com/waynepmiddleton Wayne Middleton

It’s silent era Mickey. Why would he talk?

Anonymous

Epic Mickey appears to me that it’s Okami with a much more fast interface & a different setting. The paintbrush stuff is not new.
But I wouldn’t call it a cash in game. Okay I won’t lie myself, it is a Cash In title. But it appears to be fun & that works for me.

Anonymous

When I first saw Game Informer’s cover story on Epic Mickey several months ago I was blown away. The artwork was fantastic and the whole game just seemed like a very grimdark take on the Disney universe. Then a month or two ago I heard that they had toned down on the grimdark to make the game more family friendly, and that’s when I lost all hope.

Then yesterday I watched the gameplay of the Epic Mickey demo at PAX, and like you, was severely underwhelmed. Even generic platformers move at a faster pace and have more action than Epic Mickey. Granted it was only a demo and what looked to be the first area of a game, but if you’re going to have a playable demo its purpose should be to sell the game, not be boring and generic.

tl;dr Epic Mickey isn’t epic at all.

Anonymous

Well, that swiss army knife eyeball monster was pretty cool.

http://www.facebook.com/Novak83 Ed Novak

I don’t know…watching that Epic Mickey gameplay footage tickled a part of my brain occupied by Mario 64 and Conker’s Bad Fur Day. I’m willing to give it a chance.

Anonymous

Man…I thought Epic Mickey was going to be like a Kingdom Hearts like pseudo-re-imaging of the canon with darkness and deep storylines and tragic choices for Mickey to make you know, something actually epic, but…that’s kinda disappointing, I somewhat wanted to pick it up if it was going to be over the top stupid.

http://twitter.com/Das_Bass Matt DiPasquale

It’s her sister SWiSOS.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/F74MD7JZ7TERZCWCHEASWTOIJU rageofkyubii

Agreed. i liked the original idea and storyline a hell of a lot better. It was a Micky game for the older gamer. Now its the same run-of-the-mill kiddie game all the other games out there are. Sad too, because the original idea for the game had really caught my interest.

http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/F74MD7JZ7TERZCWCHEASWTOIJU rageofkyubii

It was close to the case. Check out Game Informers article on it when the idea was first introduced. The story and gameplay was a lot different. You could make Mickey basically act like an asshole if you wanted.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Kieron-Overton/100001471542176 Kieron Overton

Oh man when I think Epic Mickey , I think of the badass yoda style keyblade swinging bonus character from KH 2, not a generic platformer from a past era.

Anonymous

Might be jumping in and shooting myself in the foot here but…i’m still excited for Epic Mickey. I’m actually surprised to hear that you’re not all up for it Spoony- the storyline alone is one of the main reasons I’m really into the game. This idea that Mickey has to atone for the merchandise and fame he’s built up over the years is something I thought a lot of people could get behind. I mean, it’s a story basically saying ‘Mickey isn’t that popular anymore, and Disney knows it.’ I can;t really see how it can just be for kids seeing as older characters are heavily used as are certain themes, and as Warren said, ‘if I make a game that appeals only to kids, I’ve failed, and if it’s only to adults, I’ve failed as well.’ Working at Disney means he walks a fine line.

I wholeheartedly agree that the graphics look shit though. The only reason for it however is because Warren wanted the motion control paintbrush- and he must’ve been cursing himself when he realised the kinect and Move were coming out. He even admitted later that he could see it being ported, and I think that’s what he wanted originally. This was not supposed to be a low graphic title.

Besides, some people also see this as a new Mickey Mania, a simple platformer with some references thrown in for good measure, and really, the cartoon platforming market needs a serious bolster of numbers to be taken seriously as more than just some downloadable titles- if Epic Mickey ships enough copies, it could do that.

Anonymous

OMG, i was thinking epic mickey was going to reveloutionise games, i thought this was the end all greatest game ever… but it looks so boring, im no fan of dark murkey games, not to mention the absent dialogue, its like they didnt want to pay for any voice actors :p, and wasnt there a mickey game very simular to this already….. ?

JC

Is 92 your birth year? Than I am afraid, you won’t understand this, since this is a thing before your generation.

Tron is a cult classic for several reasons:
Primary the graphics, which were extremely revolutionary at that time. At the time of release computer graphics was pretty basic and especially in movies non-existant at all. There were no graphics workstations, sleek software or anything in this regard. Rendering even simple images on makeshift hardware could take several days.
Even today, the graphics still hold a candle because of its unique style, whereas much never movies look like crap nowadays.

Second: The whole ambience, style and atmosphere is reminiscent of the era at that time. There are many references to game and pop culture and inner computer workings. The graphic looks mirrors many games from that time.

Third: The story might seem simple (and it actually is), but it also deals with the kind of fear, people had of artificial intelligence at that time.

Fourth: David Warner kicks ass! ;-)
Even the creators themselves admitted in the commentary, that the simplest and most bland lines sound awesome, when he acted them out.

Again: If you hadn’t used any PCs, arcades or similar things at that time, you unfortunately can’t understand the impact of this movie!

http://www.facebook.com/people/Pierre-Chanliau/1084524377 Pierre Chanliau

I lost interest in Epic Mickey the instance they told us that the game would look NOTHING like the concept art and that it would be Wii exclusive.

Also, at least TRON is ripping off GOOD gameplay.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Pierre-Chanliau/1084524377 Pierre Chanliau

Funny thing is, the concept art looks absolutely nothing like the final product which is why so many people instantly lost interest, like me.

Seriously, look it up, it’s bloody awesome concept art.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Pierre-Chanliau/1084524377 Pierre Chanliau

Not necessarily, because during the first cut scene, it shows as his fame grows over the years, including the ones from the sound era.

Also, we shouldn’t even hear a grunt out of him if he’s the silent age mickey.

And I have to agree with MitchellBandes, what the Hell happened to the Steam Punk setting they were going for?

Anonymous

“hey guys, i need to get home early… cant we just make a combination of prince of persia and mirrors edge and slap tron all over it?”
somehow i think thats how they decided on the concept for the pcbox3 version :P

and about epic mickey… i saw it at gamescom, its SOO generic! it feels like one of those cheap plattformers from late 90s / early 2000s…

Anonymous

Not that Spoony said it, but I like how others now equate last generation’s graphics as “crap”. They certainly seemed excellent to people back then–just because we have higher end stuff existing now doesn’t suddenly turned all that into garbage unless looking at it, it looks like garbage. It’ll probably look bad on your big screen HDTV, as I’ve seen Gamecube games look a bit jagged on the edges on a relative’s TV.

For those of us who aren’t rich, Gamecube games still look good on normal TVs. I’m pretty sure Spoony’s comparison was more for era than graphic level–in that case, most Wii games don’t look anything special. It’s unfortunate that not all developers can utilize the Wii’s system to make their games look like Metroid Other M.

Graphics whoring aside, I’m still excited for the game, and I doubt the hopping around and splashing paint is all the game has to offer just from viewing what was seen at E3 with the RPG elements, the travel platform levels, the morals system, etc. I doubt it will look as dark and quirky as the concept art, but who can say?

I will agree that Epic Mickey sounds like a working title and I suppose they only made it the real name because people latched onto it.

Anonymous

See, I miss those platformers. I’m talking I-ninja, Psychonauts, and rayman 3, amongst many others. They weren’t incredibly revolutionary, but they had a variety of ideas in story and characters that you just don’t see anymore. Epic Mickey looks set to do the same, I’d take it over Mario Galaxy and its bland, boring world any day.

Anonymous

Well it hasn’t aged well as many other 80s movies. Most of my favorite movies are from that era :P

Anonymous

oh i miss some of them as well, dont worry ._. rayman 3 was awesome!

dennett316

Well, yeah it is pretty blatant. They’ve taken the mechanics and engine from other games and re-skinned them rather than design their own game from the ground up. No original concepts or gameplay mechanics, just stuff lifted wholesale from other games and shoe-horned into a setting that doesn’t call for it. Hell, the wii title looks better because it sticks to concepts and mini-games relevant to the Tron universe. Frankly, the art style of the wii title was more appealing to me as well…the main consoles title is the very definition of ‘meh’.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EAHJQLWDK2FA2HUMUXGP2RQ7B4 Alexander Alexander

Being an average game that everybody alive in the last 20 years has probably played a better version of is a pretty blatant cash in. Seriously, I only rarely buy games and I’ve played almost that exact sequence Spoony showed at least twice.

MissAshley

Dislike Epic Mickey all you like, Spoony, but the amount of love and attentiveness in its development make it far, far more than a “cash-in.” I’ve never seen a developer give several passionate interviews for a cash-in.

MissAshley

Heh I’m with you all the way except for the Mario Galaxy remark. XD

http://www.facebook.com/people/Anof-TehDruid/100000811171331 Anof TehDruid

I tried the PS3 Tron, throwing myself off a cliff 30 times just to learn the complex sequence of buttons behind one of the game’s basic moves wasn’t very fun.

Anonymous

I know for a fact everyone disagrees with me on that one so I totally understand

Funnily enough I loved MG2

Anonymous

Yeah, I actually get the feeling this game won’t be too dissimilar from Rayman 3.

Anonymous

I feel a lot like Warren is actually being given a lot of pressure from Disney (ironic when you consider how they asked him to be a part of it in the first place) I’m interested in what Spoony thinks of that in particular now that he’s had a chance to learn more about the games development after having gotten to play it.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FFHN7K6SDMBSRTHSSKYK6D227I Dia Beetus

Why would he make a series of grunts instead of talking?

JC

Well, in my opinion (and not only mine when you read the commentaries out there) it has aged extremely well!

Many other movies from that time and even ten to fifteen years later look laughable nowadays – but the look of Tron still stands.

Sure, it has a kind of retro look – but this was intended even at the time of the release of the movie.
As I mentioned before: if you hadn’t experienced this era, you probably wouldn’t be able to see this.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SCKRZPBBC572Z4PP2P6M6OABBA John Smith

I believe you should look more info about Epic Mickey Spooney, It’s being developed by Warren Spector, creator of Deus Ex.

From what I’ve gathered from his interviews, this game is a monument to Disney’s life work (The person, not the company).

Walt wasn’t so kid-friendly when he told his stories back then, this game is trying to get some of that back.

http://twitter.com/xxDrCrackbone Matt

I think you should follow up on all these games you’re seeing at PAX and E3 (that is, if you can afford it or have time), and see if the final product matches your original expectations.

Anonymous

Everybody’s forgetting the score by Wendy Carlos; the deluxe DVD has the original end music which was done on a pipe organ….epic.

The look of Tron was derived from the “backlit animation” process they used to film the movie (eveything filmed in black and white, then color matted in) and while it was blocky and angular, computer printouts and video games were blocky and angular in 1983 so it made visual sense. You want retro in 1980s films watch “Back to the Future.”

MissAshley

I. . .never considered that. Now I have an image of a trembling Warren Spector standing against a curtain as a gun held by Mickey Mouse pokes him in the back.

Anonymous

There’s where the answer is- Warrens trying to help Disney by thinking outside of the box. Disney’s trying to play it safe by cutseying it up a little (also they tested the image on some people who just plain hated the idea of a dark mickey, but really, the point should surely be to make everything dark so that Mickey is the one who comes off as light anyway? If you put everything on the same level then it doesn’t work.)

It’s almost like Disney is constantly shooting itself in the foot every-time it gets something good (thank god the princess and the frog escaped into theatres when it did before they ruined that too!)

‘Cough up the money, Warren! (high pitched laugh)’

http://www.facebook.com/waynepmiddleton Wayne Middleton

I agree that the grunts are kind of weird, they should have actually paid attention to their own cartoons and had him mime everything. As soon as they did focus groups to tone down and basically remove the original concept of the game I lost interest.

http://twitter.com/Arad1el Joseph Dowland

How dare you not like a game that none of us have played!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EAHJQLWDK2FA2HUMUXGP2RQ7B4 Alexander Alexander

Pretty much everyone assumed that Epic Mickey wasn’t going to be aimed primarily at kids. That’s why it got so much hype.

JC

Rayman 3???
Actually Rayman 2 was way superior in everything except the graphics.

Every fan of the series will tell you that the second part was the best.
(Raving Rabbits might be good on its on, but has nothing to do with the old Rayman.)

Anonymous

I knew Epic Mickey was going to be a generic game from the moment I saw the first screenshot.
I must admit the artwork before hand had me excited…but once I heard it was a Wii game I knew it would be some generic platformer for little kids.

As for Tron, I’ve never seen Tron the movie (Gasp! I know.) so I really don’t care about the games OR the new movie.

Anonymous

I’m guessing that there is no dialog to make it easier to make international versions. (Just a guess though.) Also, the guy that has been playing Mickey for the past few decades, Wayne Allwine, died recently.

Anonymous

Ah, rayman 2, the colourful but rather simple platformer with the character of a spongecake. Seriously, I like a side order of intrigue or laughs with my platforming, and Rayman 2 really doesn’t cut the mustard. Rayman 3 gives you a lot more reasons to actually go out and explore while Rayman 2 is pretty…well, colourful, and that’s about it. I can’t even say that the gameplay is superior, I had the game on both the PS1 and the PC, and both versions were far from fun. Rayman 3 had different suits, had more interesting set pieces, better design, better story, better bosses, and over all a superior fun factor. Maybe this is why I’ve gone back to point N clicks until Epic mickey crops up again, because at least they support design and actual adventure over bare bones gameplay with little actual meat on it (same problem with ratchet and Clank TOD, it’s like the one game in the series that basically says ‘screw any reason to play this game other than the fact you liked the first three, insert a generic and godawful storyline and villain and market it at mindless fans.’ No new features, no real point in actually getting better weapons or completing challenges, we wouldn’t get that until ACiT when we actually got an insomniac museum to go for as well as a fairly decent if a little predictable storyline.)

If you think Spoony is jaded by what nintendo is putting out, then you wait til I’m done with it. I’m already agreeing with him tenfold on skyward sword, I still feel like I’m on the brink of ‘now what?’ after being full from Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. And don’t get me started on SMG…

Anonymous

Yes, especially when it’s only one level that’s clearly early on and doesn’t have the features shown in later leve- oh wait.

Seriously though, I do agree to some extent that it isn’t fair at all to harp on Spoony for this- to be honest I’m not, I can see exactly what his fears are in the first half and it’s not like it was horrible for him. However, there is a bit of a ‘did not do research’ vibe here, but at the end of the day a few people here are writing it off for ‘little kids.’ I guess you can’t force the game to be for everyone if they think it doesn’t have the capability to transcend to a wider audience. In many ways that’s what Warren Spector was trying to do, and while I can see where Disney have put stupid lines in place and have sodded up parts of it, I can respect what he was getting at and think this game is the start of something. If one game pushes the envelope then who’s to say it can’t be pushed further?

It’s kind of like Inception- the genie’s bottle is open. Like it or hate it, it’s gotten people talking. It’s gotten Warren Spector into Disney too.

Anonymous

I really think you’re missing the point behind Epic Mickey, and even I’ll admit as a serious platforming fan that these kinds of games are difficult to get excited about from watching or playing for a few minutes. They are not meant to attack your senses with cinematic gaming, but show you their value over time.

This game is made by WARREN SPECTOR, the man behind System Shock, Deus Ex and Thief. We have NO REASON to doubt that the RPG elements he says are in the game… are in the game. There is meant to be plenty of choice in how to play, how to deal with encounters (even dodging bosses) and exploring different parts of Mickey’s personality.

I can say I know to what extent the ‘paint and thinner’ system works, but the idea that you can erase and create geometry in a PLATFORMER (where the object is to move around a level) sounds pretty sweet.

Calling it a cash-in doesn’t work in the slightest either. What exactly is this cashing in on? Is having Oswald the Rabbit as the main antagonist the new ‘hot’ kids will lap up? No, they don’t even know who that is and I’m assuming that most (including me) don’t.

This game is almost a history lesson, a love letter that covers all the awesome Disney stuff we do and don’t know about. That’s pretty interesting in itself I think and should create some great variety, even if it does end up as a generic platformer.

Besides, is there anything wrong with making a 3D platformer in this day and age just because we all like shooters like crazy now? I don’t think so.

http://twitter.com/BustermanZero Peter Dawson

Dude, there’s nothing wrong with 3D platformers, that wasn’t the point. The point is that as a 3D platformer it lacks to really run with innovation. It’s basing its appeal on Mickey and the brush, and even then the latter doesn’t appear (note, appear, this based on the stuff they’ve shown us) to be used well. I should add that while you can apparently build and erase geometry it also appears limited, being incredibly scripted to the point where you’re just padding the game by requiring the players to take a moment to build the platform before jumping onto it. Again, this is on the footage I saw at PAX though, so if it turns out that’s not the case I’ll be happy, but I haven’t seen an inkling to prove it.

Likewise, while its easy to hero-worship Warren Spector, sorry, WARREN SPECTOR, because of some good work he’s done, its a simple fact that any creator of anything will eventually produce at least one thing that is crap. I’ll freely admit I can’t think of too many game designers who have done this off the top of my head, so I’ll just point to John Romero. Tim Schaeffer’s recent Brutal Legend project wasn’t exactly great either once the novelty wore down and you had a somewhat poorly-designed RTS. Actually what you can draw from John Romero’s Daikatana and Brutal Legend is that decent concepts can still end up being utter crap, even if there is still good ideas behind them.

Finally I’ll point out that we haven’t seen the RPG elements mentioned. This is a classic problem, one Peter Molyneux of the Fable series, never seems to have learned, since talking’s all well and good but when your gameplay doesn’t hold a candle to the words then you just look like a moron. I’d like to believe that WARREN SPECTOR will deliver, but disappointment is always possible. On a non-game example, the self-destruction of M Night Shyamalan comes to mind.

Anonymous

I read recently that the reason Disney bought back the rights to Owsald from Universal is because Warren Spector wanted to use him in this game.

Anonymous

Of course there is nothing wrong with 3D platformers, but they have fallen out of fashion the past few years and Spoony has given us absolutely no reason to believe he even enjoys them. He likes D&D, old PC games, HD consoles and doesn’t like the Wii (where this kind of content actually exists), he clearly fits the ‘lapsed PC gamer’ glove and they don’t mix with 3D platformers. Of course I could just be jumping to conclusion, if he comes out and says Mario Galaxy was one of his favourite games of this generation then my opinion may change. That is the point I was trying to make.

Of course the paint and thinner system is scripted, it’s geometry the designers have to first develop, but what we have been told is that it is effective on every painted object, which could very well mean everything except the level boundaries for all we know. The whole point of the paint and thinner is to open up possibilities within gameplay, such as making hole in a wall to jump through (so has elements of destructability, something Red Faction is entirely built on), to be able to turn enemies into allies or destroy them completely, which affects your characters standing in the world. There may be many other ways to use it and I’ve no doubt the designers will make it waste a few minutes too, but then how does that differ from the new features in Portal 2 (the single player)? It’s just a gameplay device to force you to play the game a certain (unique to the game) way.

You can stop capitalizing now, you very well know what I was trying to do (get attention in the comment section) and… it’s not really all that funny. Spoony likes System Shock and Deus Ex right? Who better to give the benefit of the doubt to if not Warren Spector? He is not Peter Molyneux, at least not yet. Spoony has already made aware he looks up to certain creative individuals, what’s the difference here?

The game also looks pretty decent, not the best the Wii has to offer but close enough. The fact that you haven’t said it’s a cash-in hopefully means we agree it isn’t.

I’m not saying this will be a particularly amazing game, and I’m not saying it won’t be generic, but there is FAR more to be excited about than not.

Anonymous

Er, double post. Not sure what happened.

Anonymous

Eh, I’m still optimistic about Epic Mickey. I’m going to justify myself. First off, the Platform Genre is for, the most part, really not subject to the same style of aging as other genres seem to be, like FPS’s. They age much better in my opinion as long as flaws like poor camera controls and other glitches like that aren’t there. Super Mario 65 is, for the most part, just as fun today as it was back then. We don’t expect much more out of platform games than we did back then. With something like an FPS it’s different; as the FPS genre has aged we’ve expected certain things that didn’t exist back when the genre started. We expect games to have things like body part specific damage modifiers, rag doll physics, hyper realistic maps, realistic guns with realistic bullet patterns and other things like that. With 3D platformers today, all you really need is solid levels, solid controls, and a nice look just like when they first appeared.

I was never a big Mickey fan at all as a kid so you aren’t treading on any sacred ground I worship. But I’ll admit this game is sparking some interest. All of the zones I’ve seen are nice and atmospheric, especially the tutorial level you showed. I think the people expecting Mickey Mouse meets Silent Hill are expecting too much and writing it off entirely because it doesn’t live up to that status is foolish as well. This game was always intended to be an E rated game. There was never going to be blood, and Pyramid Head. But that doesn’t mean it won’t ever be a little scary. Ocarina of Time was rated E and it was still really scary at times. Anyone remember the Bottom of the Well? I imagine Epic Mickey is going to have its share of light hearted zones, darker zones, zones more epic in scale and so on. Of course that is speculation, but I’m not going to call “RUINED FOREVER” off of just the first three levels, two of which I really like the look of.

Platformers are one of my favorite genres. I’m not expecting much more than controls that work, some nice levels to run through and a good look. Platformers are also kind of dying out. Aside from the painfully average Ratchet and Clank series, I can’t really think of any particularly good 3D platformers released this generation aside from the two Super Mario Galaxy games and the two Little Big Planet games.

I’m not sure how you can call it cash in though. What are they cashing in on? The Wii? A cash in would be something like “Oh Super Mario Galaxy was really popular. Let’s do a platformer with a bunch of planetoids and gravity puzzles!”
And to all the people crying about how it would be so much better on the PS3 and 360, cry some more. It already looks fantastic graphically.

http://jason.con.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/dem_skullisland.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/people/Logan-Barnett/100000397230586 Logan Barnett

I distinctly remember reading an interview where Warren Specter talks about how the two other villains are going to manipulate him into becoming a villain by appealing to his hate and jealousy and getting Oswald on your side is a big part of the story.

http://twitter.com/ShinAkumA21 ShinAkumA21

i think epic mickey is getting hype about because mickey hasn’t had a good game since the SNES days

http://twitter.com/BustermanZero Peter Dawson

I massively disagree that 3d platformers have fallen out of fashion in the past few years. If anything platformers fell out of fashion when 3d gameplay was introduced, and since about 2002 they’ve been the same. Prince of Persia, Portal, Super Mario Galaxy, heck, even Assassin’s Creed can be considered a 3d platformer, and they’re big hits. I think Galaxy is actually ranked as one of the best games of all time on metacritic or something, which does baffle me a bit but whatever. Galaxy certainly was certainly enjoyable, but one of the best games ever? Still, this isn’t what this conversation is about.

A disliking of a genre doesn’t seem to be the problem here. As pointed out with Deadliest Warrior, game genres can be competitive and while having a pop culture icon as the main character is nice, its helpful to have some interesting gameplay. Hell, Dark Void, an otherwise bland FPS, still stands out in spite of obvious flaws because of how well they used jetpacks. Epic Mickey’s paint abilities did not give me the impression of innovation, but apparently I missed the videos demonstrating some of the stuff you just brought up. Let me clarify my statements about the paint, compared to the portal gun. The portal gun has set features, but because you can and use it on anything it gives a sense of freedom. Having a door that can only be opened by thining the partial walls seems kind of mundane yet I’ve seen it touted as a feature. It comes across as just being able to smash walls to solve puzzles, but you do it with liquid. With the portal gun you could of probably found two or three ways passed that bit, no problem, and it didn’t even seem like a puzzle. What my point boils down to is footage I’ve seen didn’t seem like there were so much puzzles as “spray this here to continue on your way” where as in games like Portal you could experiment to solve problems. Heck, even Zelda didn’t rely entirely on walls that you could blow up: sometimes you had to find them first behind plants or something. I’m actually going to go check for more footage now on what else you can do in-game. I’d of done so before now but I wanted to post a pre-check reply in case I need to buy some of my stuff back when I haven’t even clarified it yet.

Yeah, I don’t care why you all-capped a man’s name, it still looked tacky. All you need to do to stand out in a comment section is post something insightful. Besides, knowing why you did it doesn’t mean I can’t still mock it. Plus it amused me, and that was enough. Anyhow, just because you like some games a person does is no reason to ever give benefit of the doubt. Linkara, Spoony’s buddy, did a three-parter on Frank Miller’s terrible, terrible the Dark Knight Strikes Again, and got hate from people who hadn’t even read it because they thought it was uncalled for to ever attack Frank Miller. Now, I’m not saying Warren Spector has gone insane with his love of whores, mostly because I think Disney will only the buy the “they’re just princesses” bit for so long, but any beloved creator can commit a career-hurting injury at any time. I don’t believe its cynical either, but rather a neutral stance between optimism and pessimism to expect neither good nor bad from anyone, even people with good track records, and let what has been seen speak for itself. Shyamalan is still employed after all, though again that’s movies, its just hard to pull out examples aside from John Romero as I feel game companies have few well-known designers at this time. I didn’t even know who Ken Levine was until PAX 2008.

Yeah, I will say as far as Disney products go, this doesn’t feel like a cash-in. You could maybe argue its one for nostalgia, but Disney has done much worse there, like make sequels to films decades after they’ve been completed. Not to mention produce several pointless-feeling spin-offs of Kingdom Hearts onto handhelds, but I also blame Square-Enix in general for that.

In the end, I’m saying judge it on what we’ve seen, but again, what I’ve seen (and it totally wasn’t just this video to be clear, I was at PAX this year as I have gone every year since 2007) it offers little in innovation. The Mickey element, sure, go nuts. Paint thing really hasn’t impressed me yet, and without it its just got Mickey. I really don’t like Mickey’s design in this game, but that’s just me.

http://www.facebook.com/xMaeRx Ryan Beckmann

As cool as the Wii Tron game looks, NOTHING beats the Tron-inspired Half-Life mod “Ricochet” when it comes to light disks. That game is spot on and tons of fun. Too bad no one plays it anymore.

JC

Sorry, but you are mixing the two games up.
The story of Rayman 3 was really stupid.
Yes the graphics were better and it had voice acting (If this is a good thing or not is another thing.)

So actually, the only reason to play Rayman 3, was for the pretty, pretty eye candy graphics. Everything else that matters like story, gameplay, design, bosses was way superior in part 2!

I guess you are not only alone with your opion of Mario Galaxy, but even with the rest as well

greycolumbus

Seriously. I’m not sure what inspired him to make such a comment but I think its just unfounded.

greycolumbus

You can still do that. He just doesn’t morph. Yes, I’ve read the Game Informer article. Personally, I thought the whole scrapper thing was kind of stupid. That’s not to say I’m content with how they replaced it.

The concept art just played with a lot of people’s perception of the game. Usually in that stage of development things are produced that are never meant to be utilized (such as grimdark art).

Also, that GI article depicted Oswald as someone that could either shun you or become an ally. That central piece of the gameplay hasn’t changed.

http://twitter.com/OlivawTweet Olivaw

I think Epic Mickey is getting hype mostly because of WARREN FUCKING SPECTOR.

I’ll play anything designed by the dude who made Deus Ex. ANYTHING.

Anonymous

You just mentioned 4 games (and Assassin’s Creed is pushing it). I’m not saying there aren’t any platformers anymore, just that the ratio of platformers to FPS or TPS games has dropped significantly from the last generation. I pretty much agree with Mario Galaxy’s score, it isn’t my favourite 3D Mario by any means but it’s an amazing title on many levels (sheer variety, gravity mechanics, soundtrack etc).

Spoony has already mentioned he has a profound respect for the work of the director of Scott Pilgrim, and as well as a Japanese director I can’t recall (who’s film he always wants to watch even though he hated some of them). All I ask is for a game developer to recieve the same treatment. At least we know Warren Spector is a kickass guy from what we’ve seen of him.

I’ve played Portal at least 3 times, and I only remember two instances where you could actually complete a test chamber in more than one way, a ‘ninja’ method if you will. In fact for the other instance, I didn’t even use the portal gun to jump over an obstacle, I used a chair. Portal is not an open game regardless of how liberating the idea seems. There is no reason to believe the mechanic Epic Mickey demonstrates won’t offer the same (or more) levels of freedom.

The Zelda example really doesn’t work here, the whole point of Zelda is that it uses a metric tonne of small (but awesome) mechanics to add to its core gameplay. The bombs themselves have limited use, but are only one item of many.

I agree there is much more we have yet to see, the game is still an unknown quantity in many respects. My original comment only had the innovation argument (where I said there is promise) as a small part of it, with the idea of Spoony seeing it as a cash-in and not recognising the talent behind it as wrong.

Is Portal 2 a cash-in because it has Glados, despite the fact that her CPU cores were melted beyond repair? Not really.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Borean/100000041163314 Michael Borean

Gah. Is WARREN SPECTOR as I’m gonna have to call him really a good reason to say a game will be good? Thats like saying every form of christianity is good because Jesus christ is the base of it. Or god if you prefer.

That being said, I love me some platforming, and I will be happy if it doesn’t suck (even if I have to mute it because of the grunting and squeaking getting annoying as all fuck) but it looks so very, very, average. Maybe the bosses are spectacular, I haven’t seen them, but the running around platforming didn’t look particularly inspiring. Actually it kinda looked like a mix of running around in Kingdom heart, and super mario sunshine.

Anonymous

Because it was supposed to be a return to Mickey’s older roots from the onset of Disney, his old personality and Walt’s old ways of telling his stories was markedly less ‘child friendly’ than the Mickey we know today. The darker theme would have been a return to that and a tribute to Disney’s roots as well as the late Walt’s method of storytelling.

It seems to me like all that got watered down in the release.

Anonymous

I’ve gotta disagree about Mickey. Harp on the paint gimmick and gameplay all you want, I haven’t played it, I can’t comment, but you’re missing a little something with the story. First of all, they’ve shown off the opening and it had quite a bit of dialogue from Yen Sid explaining Mickey’s fuck up that leads to Phantom Blot, so the complaint about the grunts is unfounded. But, beyond that, it’s trying to hearken back to Mickey’s early day. Look at his design, he’s more Steamboat Willy than House of Mouse, of course he isn’t going to be yapping it up with the villains. The story seems really interesting and well thought out. It’s Mickey going back to his roots and seeing all the Disney characters that he left behind when he became a household name. It’s Oswald turning on Mickey for stealing his limelight and leaving him in obscurity. It’s basic, but it has tons of potential, and it’s far from a cash in.

TRON, though… I think it looks FUN, but it doesn’t look like TRON. Have you played TRON 2.0? Because that’s more of a TRON game than the arcade style compilations that we’ve had. I don’t think shooting when I think TRON, but I’ll be damned if TRON 2.0 wasn’t one of the best licensed games I’ve ever played. I don’t see why a platformer couldn’t work.

Anonymous

Rayman 3 had great humour and fun. There was a wonderful jokey take on characters that you can actually remember, just like the first Rayman. It had a decent set up- black lum controls all the villains, stuck inside good guys belly, therefore enemies coming at you fast on all sides to free him. You’re telling me that the stale ‘post-apocalypitc-only-one-man-can-free-us’ story of Rayman 2 was better? My cartoony platformers can handle serious themes, sure, but you can only have pathos with comedy to make it work. There’s no comedy in Rayman three bar one game over screen, it’s a very durr-durr experience with little realisation of its own ridiculous preachyness. Rayman 3 treated me like an adult- it had interesting concepts that really fitted into the original style of the rayman world (a foppish hunter chasing you around a booby trapped mansion is far more interesting than a stone giant who you have to chase up a poor slide to defeat.)

Rayman 2 could have had a great story with some hilarious moments and some really dark humour as well, but it’s always felt like such a dull experience with little exploitation of the concepts. I want to see Admiral Razorbeard get frustrated and start raising the stakes after having previously shown us some comedy chops. Percival Tachyon had the same problem, the only difference was Tachyon used horrible stock humour in a vain attempt to say ‘my personality is that of someone funny! And now it’s serious, so I need to act all srs bsns.’ He doesn’t ever seem to genuinely show any kind of humour or emotion that actually would have developed from his hatred of the lombaxes. It’s just like ‘i’m evil and that’s it.’ For chairmen Drek, sure, but Tachyon has this great backstory that’s never used to an advantage in the writing.

Lolrant

http://twitter.com/BustermanZero Peter Dawson

The four games I mentioned were series however, and there only around a dozen of games series that are FPS-based. I would call Assassin’s Creed, granted perhaps more II than I, a stealth platformer more than anything due to sheer amount of stuff you can climb, and how the game really embraces that aspect. Again, no question the number of FPS has jumped massively more and more since we made the transition to 3d, but platformers are still highly competitive.

Again when talking about director/designer worship if the project looks like crap before you even check it out for real (IE rent or buy) its hard to give the benefit of the doubt. Scott Pilgrim trailer looked epic so it was hard to see the flaws, though the fear that the film might not be able to sustain its cartoonish/manga-style premise might be the only thing I could think of. At best what you could do here is say, “Warren Spector designed a game that looks kind of bland? I call executive meddling!” Thus while the game is still open to sucking, you don’t need to blame said wonderful designer for the flaws. Heck, designers aren’t always to blame when a game sucks anyhow. Spector himself has been shamed by some of his super-early works which were apparently bland shooters. Someone even told him he couldn’t talk about the story anymore. Creative control is an issue here.

True, my praise of Portal doesn’t escape the fact that there’s still a set series of puzzles, but you’d be surprised at what you can do when you wing it. Even managing to make a bad portal angle work always felt liberating.

My Zelda argument is that from what we’ve seen the paint items don’t offer any more variety than a Zelda weapon, like the bombs. Heck, the bombs in some games had great variety, capable of being thrown, launched with arrows, even used as weights in a pinch. Here we’re talking about just making or erasing stuff. Speaking of, I still haven’t found footage demonstrating some other things the paint can supposedly do.

Yeah, I will agree the cash-in argument isn’t solid by any means. If they were going to release something like a “Best of Mickey” DVD around the same time then cash-in might make sense. Plus at this point recognizing the talent behind it is going to produce, “This is it? Didn’t some of your earlier works cause some changes to how games were designed? Now we’ve got Mickey Sunshine?”

JC

Something off topic:
Where is the next installment of “It came before midnight”?

I am missing this serious a lot! (seriously).

I hope that all the stupid haters didn’t finally overcome you, Spoony?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Calvin-Jarchow/1131125364 Calvin Jarchow

Mouse + Corkscrew + X = Science/Profit. Science is the only reason you need to do anything. It’s like saying “Yoink” when you grab something. It’s a legally binding verbal contract in which the Party of the First Part is take-having the an item in possession of the Party of the Second Part and can be countered and reversed by the Second Party Yoinking the item back. This can be done infinitely unless the No Backsies clause is introduced as precedented by the Nuh-uh v. Yah-huh case of 1989.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Calvin-Jarchow/1131125364 Calvin Jarchow

It’s so hard to predict a game based on demos. I’m indecisive anyway so playing a demo is sometimes like saying “Heres a cover to judge this book with. What? You want to know what’s in the book? We can’t comment at this time”

http://www.facebook.com/people/Andres-ZombieMan-Guzman/100001028660386 Andres ZombieMan Guzman

You know what pissed me off?? People saying ” Oh that Epic Mickey game is BS! They should have made the game like Kingdom Hearts!”

It really pisses me off hearing those Fanboys throwing the KH name into anything related to Disney nowadays . . .

And talking about a cash in game. . . Kingdom Hearts is one of them!

http://www.facebook.com/people/Andres-ZombieMan-Guzman/100001028660386 Andres ZombieMan Guzman

Seriously… do you people want to see a video game with Mickey that involves rape and murder or something like that??? Why make Mickey a dark game when the character wasn’t made to be a dark thing to begin with!

Anonymous

Keyword here, EPIC Mickey, not Gee Golly Let’s Have Some Fun Mickey, Epic. And since the graphics already look somewhat KHish, KH was a good game that sold really well, and KH made Mickey a total BAMF, you’d think they’d go in that direction, I’m not saying it’s going to be a bad game, hell, I barely saw any of it. But Epic Mickey doesn’t look as cool as it sounded or as I thought it was going to be, hence, disappointment.

And you don’t need rape and murder to make a game dark or deep. Rob Liefeld tried that and failed. Plenty of authors can create darkness without gorn or :”adult” situations, it’s a failing of modern horror that it doesn’t do these things, instead relying on cheap thrills to tell a story.

Anonymous

Prince of Persia and Assassin’s Creed are not platformers in the slightest.

http://thenewyawker.darkbb.com/ Tylarannosaurus Rex

I was honestly expecting more from Epic Mickey. Honestly. Sweet cinematics do not a good game make.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Freddy-Duran/100000817426762 Freddy Duran

Mickey needed his key blade….

http://www.facebook.com/people/Freddy-Duran/100000817426762 Freddy Duran

Mickey needed his key blade….

Anonymous

I think Epic Mickey actually looks pretty rad. Super Mario Sunshine? Sign me up! I wanna see how tight the controls are though.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WP6PLQ5AP6YIDNH4ND6NA5D5ZQ Scott

I never got why people were getting so excited about Epic Mickey. I mean it didn’t look bad but I just didn’t see the appeal.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Sami-Ryyppö/1444333656 Sami Ryyppö

Straight from the Gamecube times, huh? Well, just a few years backwards and they could call it 8-Bit Mickey! I know, lame. But come on, SOMEONE had to make that joke.

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