Nice to see something new ;-)
Actually, I was just going to watch this review again.
Oh hey.New content.I take it you’re feeling better.If not: Get better soon, man.
I personally thought they edgy darker song worked for me.
About the original story this is based on- I think the guy who caused all the panic about D&D was definitely unstable, what he ended up killing himself over was that he was a young genius, highly pressured, and was having trouble dealing with being gay. It’s a sad story, but apparently D&D was blamed because his family didn’t want the real reason getting out. No citations, sorry.
My mom was afraid when I used to play D&D as well. But yeah, she got over it too. Would have loved to have seen the “I Accuse My Parents” sketch, that’s one of my favorite MST3K episodes. Party at Jack Taylor’s!
It could be that Jimmy is just kinda stupid…
I liked the new intro, but I am one of those fans who really hoped that it would not be “the new intro”, because I like the original theme just a little too much. Also, what’s up with the terrible streaming, I’ve had to refresh the page so many times now, I lost count. It always seems to be coming to a halt for me at the 1:40 mark. I guess I’ll just keep trying till it loads. It’s funny but I think a lot of dedicated Christians have a skewed idea of D&D, magic the gathering and even live roleplaying. I’ve had a Christian girlfriend seriously come up to me and ask me if it was “okay” (okay in the eye of the Lord I guess) what we were doing on our Saturday nights. She even insisted on joining in on a session (just to get the big man’s approval probably), but I told her to piss off, because it was our men’s night, and it only involved us eating lots of unhealthy food, making bad jokes, and acting like morons.
“It’s funny but I think a lot of dedicated Christians have a skewed idea of D&D, magic the gathering and even live roleplaying.”
Nah, just a handful of them do that. Like I’ve said before, I’m a Christian, I’ve roleplayed with a megaton of Christians from different denominations, and I’ve never heard a peep about it.
One question though: did you tell your girl to “piss off” exactly in those words? I just ask because I’m curious as to what her reaction was (and whether or not it involved meat cleavers).
OH NOES NO PLAYABLE CONTENT FOR MAZES AND MONSTERS COMMENTARY AVAILABLE
Well where did it go?
I get the same thingie…
FINALLY! It works…
10:55: you said long and hard….
I want to say how lucky I feel to be a D&D player nowadays. Not because of the greater acceptance, people still ostracize players. What makes it easier to be a player now is the internet. So, thank you, SpoonyOne. Thank you for showing me just how exactly insane people got over people getting books and using their imagination.
Ah, the good old days of “prison” err… school. And I do recall later on in Junior year, you coming back to the card tables for a short time there. Although I was thinking Columbine happened back in our Junior year, but I googled it to find out, it was just before graduation…
And regarding the whole DOOM ordeal, I remember Mesa Public Schools declared no gaming on their networks. As a nice response to this, the kids we hung out with in High School. Found a way to re-port network traffic for DOOM & Quake on the networks so that their network constraints were screwed again… Noah also threw together a DOOM map together to creep out the powers that be =p. The map wasn’t that big of a hit…
Incidentally, the MST3K Spoony mentions is available on Netflix “Watch Instantly”!
at first I didn’t like the song then I listen to it again and I liked it. I also would like to hear a full version of them singing it.
I think this version is more appropriate for this review. Your playing off the idea of media paranoia, showing pseudo-violent clips, as if you were the guy who played D&D the all the baby-boomers were irrationally afraid of.
The incident with the Magic cards reminded me of when schools banned Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh because they thought it was gambling. I even remember taking a pottery class with some woman who hated Pokemon and it was probably because she thought it was Satanic.
I have actually wanted to try D&D at some point, and I doubt I’d be obsessed like in this crappy film, or try LARPing or something, it sounds kind of cool and there’s probably some variant of the game that would appeal to my interests in some way.
I think the thing that is going to hurt manga the most is if it is in libraries, it’s horridly miss cataloged, at least the one by me.
Mangas clearly labeled for older teen are mixed in the with kiddy books. A friend checked a few out and violent rape was in the first issue. THat’s going to cause parents to flip and it’ll get blown way out of proportion, like so many other things.
Not that the arguments over the light gun help anything either.
That reminds me of one incident relating to some Tokyopop manga called Peach Girl which had a rape scene and one parent complained, and suddenly when this manga was brought up on a news site they said it, the whole manga, was about rape and Tokyopop published comics like this.
Totally, utterly wrong.
Don’t rush me. I’m right in the middle of watching mst3k. I’ve now seen… two.
When it comes to d&d the new introduction box/kit/whatever for the forth edition is supposedly pretty good. It guides players both through an encounter and character creation.
I’m defiantly familiar with the persecution that magic players and gamers can get in high-school. The Magic players had the same issue with the teachers ready to bust them for “gambling” while the kids who were playing blackjack and actually gambling didn’t even get a passing glance.
The people who admittedly played video games were all on Columbine watch and would periodically get their bags and lockers searched until some asstard planted a fake bomb and backpacks got banned outright (but gym bags weren’t, ironically).
I think you are right when you say that this movie is a better example of the power of obsession with a game, any game, rather that the evils of D&D. I can speak from experience about how badly an MMO can suck you in. But I didn’t start thinking that I could cast firebolts or summon water elementals >.>.
As far as the intro, I just didn’t care for the song. The video was fine but the song sounded too much like.. I don’t know… some bad emo rock cover of the song. It just doesn’t fit.
You know what worked to get the moral worriers to relax? I accepted going to one of their sermons if they came and played one game. Not only did it calm them all down, but one of them actually wanted to become a permanent member. He was actually pretty good too.There was actually more of a back lash at my school to Pogs then to Magic Cards. Pogs got banned for gambling but not Magic Cards, go figure.
It’s odd that you mention Mormons. I’ve been DMing the same custom campaign for about 5 1/2 years and I’ve had Mormons in my group. I’ve never seen a Mormon against it (and I know waaay too many Mormons). It’s usually the Baptists who are against it. I’ve actually been yelled at a few times by a Baptist family (and a Lutheran family as well, now that I think of it). Also, I’d support your movie if I could, but if it’s too good it may ruin D&D for generations. Think about it. If THIS crappy movie ruined the game for a few years, imagine what YOUR legitimately threating portrayal of gamers would end in O_o
I like the alt intro by the way :)
I don’t know man…
I’ve been in games with alot of Christians, Muslims, one Hindu, a handful of agnostics, a few atheists, and quite a few Orthodox Jews. I really haven’t gotten that much noise.
In fact, one of the worst (and only scream outs) I got was from the parents of one of my younger players. They were atheists themselves and they barged into the comic shop where we held the game, pulled their kid out and accused me of “poisoning his mind” with “magical thinking” all in an attempt to “convert him to Christianity”. They called D&D a “Religious Indoctrination System”. The thing is, I knew them. I went to school with their eldest son. Yet, they just snapped on me
Weird stuff. I guess it varies from place to place. But in the end I guess every so often you’ll find wacky folks in every group.
You should do your movie with hand puppets. They have no shame, you can do all the voices(you were great as gerily spoon :p), and it wont be x-rated.
Just write the script the the same as you would have before.
I really do think this was one of your strongest and funniest reviews yet. Were it not for the intro, I would call it an absolutely perfect gateway spoony video, as it really shows your humor, subtlety, relatability, intelligence, and insight. This is almost the video you could show a non-spoony fan as the ultimate example of his skills as a comedian and a reviewer.
Nothing against the new song, but I think the Irresponsibles version is just more accessible to the casual viewer.
Hey Spoony, I’m DMing for the first time next week and I have it all set-up except, I don’t wuite know how to start it off. Are there any tips or pointers you could post for DMing?
Though I am not Spoony, might I offer some suggestions?
-DO NOT start with the old “you meet in a tavern” trope. It’s so overplayed that even non-players will know about it and think it’s cliche.
-DO NOT flood them with back story at the very start. Just summarize the most important points on a note card (where, when, who the major players are, and the current dilemma that anyone in the game world would know about).
-DO throw them a curveball. Start them in the middle of a fight or captured by some bad guy in a dungeon. This will throw them right into the adventure and given them an opportunity to showcase their character’s abilities.
-DO let them have fun before you become a rules lawyer. If it means their characters end up in a world of hurt, so be it. This will let them know that you care about letting them have fun.
Hope this helps!
Love the new intro- it should be used more often!
J.J. committing suicide? Nah, the setup to kill his character for his own campaign. Otherwise, makes no sense. An in-game cry for attention. Also, wonder if you’d ever pull off your movie idea, Spoony. Maybe a small-scale version in RPG Maker?
Cool to see you getting better, we missed you. I liked your commentary, especially since Maze & Monster was my favourite review.I kinda want you to do the D&D movie sometime in the future, but I’m afraid of what seeing this movie again would do to your health.
Concerning the intro, I liked the video and I thought the song had a great intro building up to something bad-ass, but then it failed to deliver by sounding kinda slow and passionless. In all honesty, it made me think of the lame band in the beginning of Brütal Legend, even though they’re not that bad. It still cool that they made a cover song for you and it be great if more people did it.
You should call Doug and convince him to let you do your violent exploitation horror sequel/remake to Maze&Monster as the third anniversary special for that guy with the glasses!
I have to admit the first time I saw that intro I was a little taken aback. However, the more I watched it the better it got. Eventually I even started to sing along with it (not that my voice is anything amazing mind you). I think it was really well done and as far as your intro videos go I think it’s probably your best the syncing is expertly done and you used the music to tell a short story almost which is a great thing to achieve. I’m glad that your finally feeling better but please don’t overdo it, your health is the one thing that you should not place over work. Take care everyone Peace.
Pretty much how I feel. I was a bit unsure at first, but I was interested as I like rock/metal, re-listened to it a few times and now I’m hooked. Heck I was a little dissapointed when you switched back to the old one. Perhaps if you get another cover or two, you can rotate between them?
And Living Illusion, if you’re listening I’d also love to see a full length cover :D. I’d definitly add it to my main playlist.
when I first heard the new intro I liked it, and I was kinda disapointed that it wasn’t permanent but oh well the video has an epic freakout =P
I’ll tell you what, as soon as I hit the lottery, I will help you produce your movie and ever help bring it out on DVD on one condition. I can get the part of the detective who is trying to break up this creatures and caverns cult…the CCC. I could play him very simmilar to the Detective in Mazes and Monsters even.
As for the opening, it is very dark and even starts out good, but when it gets to the middle it kinda slows to a crawl only to pick back up and is a bit odd to most. Personally I think it was perfect for this review because it did set the dark mood needed to understand just how stupid this movie was.
I think some good Samaritans went ahead and knocked the world trade center down so people would stop jumping off of it.
What? Too soon? It was too soon, wasn’t it?
I was just going to say, “No, Spoony, I think it’s pretty easy to jump off the World Trade Center now-a-days, and furthermore, I doubt the fall would be lethal”
But of course, Man rebuilds, giving people a much smaller museum/memorial from which they can hurl themselves.
Well that really IS a self defeating attitude. Spoony should know how many crappy movies are made by people who have no talent at all! How many millions of dollars went into “The Room”?
I would totally watch that movie if it was made.
Your character has died. And thus so shall YOU!
Let me ask you this brother: Do you believe the golden tablets that were found in the hills by Joe Smith from a flying saucer alien? And do you have faith that he somehow translated it and never showed anyone these mystical tablets? BELIEVE!
…Yeah, Mormons blow. Stupid religion. My friend has had similar experiences with them and this stupid reactionary-fundamentalist-uppity-lack-of-common-sense society. Freedom my azzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
I know mormons and they don’t believe in flying saucers. And despite what South Park said, Joseph Smith did show the gold plates to others, just not to everybody. Besides, aren’t you doing to mormons the exact thing you claim they do to you? You falsely over-generalize their beliefs and then use a singular experience as a pariah for the entire religion?
Let it go. He’s just another troll. Ignore him.
It’s the same experience multiplied a thousandfold.
Gamerz is hilarious, man. I mean… I hope it’s a comedy, anyways. As I was watching this, prior to your mentioning it, I was curious if you’d ever do a review of it
I love that intro. Some variety is good even if it is a cover to a good tune. Hearing you say you wanted to remake the movie like that reminds me of when I thought the same thing. Course my writing isn’t as good as yours but the second I get ahold of a few million I will break you off a mill just to see that movie.
Yea, this one resonates with so many gamers, especially those in my age range and a little older. We lived through the frenzy. You find a few remnants of it here and there, but a lot of other pop culture scapegoats have finally overtaken it.
BTW, am I the only that massively lol’d at the all candle lit gaming area? If our GM tried it, it would be “Dammit, Connor, turn on some light and put those out before you burn this trailer down, will you?!”
I agree with the schoolwork thing. We were not allowed to play either because the head of the dorms (cannot remember the real name) told us we couldn’t and thought we where playing this to much because some of us didn’t have that great of grades. We would only play the weekends and any time we had off.
For what it’s worth, I liked the song.
I liked the opening for this too, I think it sort of split us up, we either liked it or hated it
we had Magic players at my high school who had the whole ‘it’s gambling’ and got busted
I think another teacher had the adventure gaming club after that point
and if my Grandmother hadn’t lied to me and made me make a stupid promise to never play D&D when I was ten, I would have gotten to learn to play with some of my friends then instead of in college where the DM re-wrote have the book and I found that out later XD
I liked the review, thanks for the commentary Spoony, hope you’re feeling better
Man I LOVE the new song and opening… change and evolution can be good! Its a shame you won’t keep that one around sometimes… maybe one for movies, for games, etc.
Ah how I remember playing DnD during high school, even though I started well after all that crazy I grew up in a smallish town where they didn’t really understand alot of the whole Magic:The Gathering or Dungeons and Dragons stuff. I remember specifically getting sent to the counselors office every other day during one week where I was doing nothing but drawing my paladin, they were worried about me since he had armor and a sword :| The counselor on the other hand just knew what was going on and we would just talk about stuff, she was pretty cool.
On the subject of the theme song I really liked it…
Good afternoon, Spoony and fellow Spooners.
1. About the rock theme, my only issue was that it seems like EVERY reviewer has a rock theme. So I’d prefer you not go down that road. But that’s just me.
2. My friend’s mom worried about us playing AD&D back in the day. My dad’s response was basically, “Would you rather them be out on the street, getting into trouble?” And that was the end of that. Sorry to hear it wasn’t so easy for you.
3. You sound better. This is good.
4. If you really want your projects put out there, I’d recommend getting into novels rather than movies. You don’t have to worry about actors and budgets and whatnot.
I would actually play Yugioh with a few guys in the mornings all the time in high school, and the whole satanic thing had died down by the time I went there (Good thing too; it was a Catholic school and they would have eaten us alive otherwise). But we were told to stop because they were worried about fistfights breaking out with trading and whatnot (gambling was involved in the reasoning…somehow…). We then proceeded to ignore them. I think there was some ostracizing (too nerdy and all that), but I already had a group of friends who didn’t care, so I barely noticed.
It’s actually kind of ironic that some say people who role-play are really anti-social. You have to be social to a degree since you’re, you know, hanging out with a group of people and all that.
Well, the thing is – when most people say that nerds are “anti-social” it usually just means “they won’t socialize with US!”. Most nerds (myself included) just prefer the company of other people like them…ya know, just like everyone else in the world.
I LOVED the new theme! I thought it was awesome; if you’d use it once in a while, that’d be amazing. Thank you for giving the guys credit, it was really well done. :]
I loved the new theme too.
I just moved to Portland, leaving behind the friends I used to meet once a week to game with. I tried meet ups and stuff, but there isn’t much of a community for D&D here unfortunately. I even went into Things From Another World to try and meet people, but I’m kind of shy so it didn’t really work. D:
Oh well, maybe someday…
This was a great review, by the way. Love your commentaries too.
okay, as someone who has read the wikipedia article about the mazes and monsters fiasco(OMG hao do u hav tym 2 play MW2???!!!) I have to say the kid that went missing played DND for awhile but he RAN AWAY to his uncle’s place when the story/movie happened. He worked in a mine for awhile and tried to get “back on track” before his suicide. There was alot of normal, hillbilly life he lived before his death. If anything, DnD would’ve kept him around… if only to see Planescape return to DnD.
I loved the theme song but I would like to hear an orchestrated version just for shits and giggles and I’m glad you’re well enough to do a commentary. The M&M was the first review of yours I saw and it’s my personal favourite, although I myself was banned from DnD I still find it interesting, I might pick it up some day but for now I’ll just listen to your game on Lord Kat’s livestream (Do you know when the next time you might be doing it? :3 )
spoony i love your reveiws but i need to correct u on somthing in thedoom games they found exact copies of the classrooms and cafetirea where the shootings took place it wasnt just random blaming of the game industry. thx 4 hearing me out chao
Untrue. No versions of those levels have ever actually been found. He made several maps, and supposedly claimed to have made a map of the high school, but I repeat, there’s absolutely nothing to back that up.
can we see the screenplay?
Well no wonder you were feared in High School. People sensed that you would become the king of nerds and thus be vastly more powerfull than they would ever be. ;)
My siblings and I all enjoy D&D, and we’re pretty darn Mormon too! We even roped our mom into playing with us during a family reunion, it was hilarious. I think it’s unfortunately common that nerds, Mormons, and pretty much most groups and such tend to get judged too harshly based on rumors and stereotypes. Like it was mentioned in the video, they’re just people.
How come in Arizona it was so much more difficult for you to play Magic the Gathering/DnD than it was for me in suburban Bible Belt Tennessee I wonder.
Same thing happened with my mom. She was a bit worried when I started, but after the guys came to my house for a game and she actually listened to what was going on she realized just how silly this whole thing is. Now she just calls us nerds.
Well, I for one love the cover of Break Me. It’s awesome.
Theres nothing wrong with the intro video, its just that the song is very very bland, generic sounding “nu metal” style hard rock which people were over like seven years ago.
Same could be said about band like Metallica, but people still listen to them. I personally like a lot of nu metal bands. Don’t group everyone together into your narrowminded views.
Im just giving possible reason for people not liking the song. I never gave ANY backlash towards it when this review was posted, im just expressing my voice for spoony because he mentioned it in this video. I thought the cover was ok but the style is heavily dated and alot of bands sounded like this ten years ago.
I have no problem with spoony using that version of the song or making the intro video i was just expressing my opinion of the song itself.
Also- Metallica is invalid because they were around and built up a fanbase unlike today where you have to be trendy or conform to get popular. Why else would the music industry be suffering so much right now? the focus is more on trends than music, which kills music.
Nu Metal, is that another made up term to separate what people like and don’t like in a genre? It’s clever.
no, its what bland generic metal bands are labeled as today, have you been living in a cave? you seriously havent heard of nu metal?
Really haven’t, really don’t buy it. A genre describes a type of music or digs into variations on it. Making up a genre name to reclassify generic music in a genre is just petty and a little pretentious.
I don’t know where you got your information, but it’s as you stated wrong in every way(seriously, Vanilla Ice? wat.) Nu Metal is actually a real genre even if it has become the go to genre to categorized band you don’t like. Slipknott is Nu metal, so is early 2000-late 90 Slayer. It does sound kinda generic and is pretty popular with younger metal fan, wich is why it became the go-to genre for thing people don’t like. I guess the place you checked consider every band enjoyed by people with generally pale skin to be metal, and there’s nothing whiter than Vanilla Ice.
“Making up a genre name to reclassify generic music in a genre is just petty and a little pretentious.”So your so full of your opinion claiming I just made up this genre in my head just because i dont like the song spoony used? Are you really that petty and pretentious? Fuck that, the song is generic nu metal all the way! I never claimed to hate the song I just said it sounds generic and dated which it sort of does, why would i want to make up a genre for that? Are you so unintelligent and willfully ignorant that you would make this scenario up in your mind and fully believe it and defend it just because your so willingly stupid?
I loved this intro! WTH is wrong with you people???Aside from that, when I was in high-school I also played Magic the Gathering, only at the time I found out about it I was really young and it was already the 4th edition, I never understood how to play, until a teacher came along that saw us with the magic cards and he asked us about it, we told him we didn’t really know how to play and he taught us. The cool thing is that we eventually actually made a tournament at school, we still managed to get about 10 people or more to compete, cant really remember how many we were xD.But before all that I was really pushed aside, I was actually “popular” in a way, only in a bad way, everyone knew who I was, the fact that I was the son of a teacher and this is a small town helped, I was always called a Satanist, some people said I would hang around the towns cemetery (Which I never actually set foot on), that my bed room walls were painted black, all sorts of things like that. Well my tastes didn’t help since I was into metal, video games (specially the legacy of kain at the time), one of my favorite movies as a kid was the nightmare before christmas. Anyways, it’s pretty normal for the internet, but here it’s really not and it was really hard on me as a kid, luckily I did have some good friends and that’s all you really need to just be able to say fuck everyone who hates on me.
I definitely want to see your screenplay!!!
Was there a lot of controversy over the intro? Huh, don’t see why there would’ve been, honestly, I never thought it was going to be permanent (I think I still remembered the midi-esque mix of the intro that Skitch or somebody did earlier, which was also one-time-only). I liked it, but I personally thought the chorus wasn’t heavy enough for me compared to the instrumental intro. *shrug*
And I guess I should count myself lucky I grew up in a time when we weren’t allowed to play DnD in school simply because we couldn’t stay in the building after hours… nobody ever thought me a Satanist. :B
“Lightly maim” lol… Spoony, bring back the Twitter feed! Doooo eeeet!
Personally I really liked the alternative opening.
Spoony, the founder of Nerdsploitation. To be honest, that movie sounds utterly horrifying and not at all like anything I would ever watch, but at the same time much like the Jack T Chick tract I don’t think it would be entirely possible to take it 100% seriously no matter how dark it was. I mean, cults and D&D really don’t go together and have no real world connection outside of paranoia, and seeing the two juxtaposed together draws attention to just how silly the connection really is.
Even so, I think it would be awesome to have a scene like something out of a Hammer Dracula film, where the detective confronts the head DM with a crucifix and the DM tries to shield himself with his Dungeon Master’s screen. Or a scene where the cultists go to a country tavern looking for ‘quests’ that resembles the scene where the Ring Wraiths attack the Prancing Pony. Or a scene where one of the gamer cultists tries to summon a devil but doesn’t take the proper precautions and is killed.
It would also be ironic if the detective formed a band of unlikely characters to do battle against the evil cult. At the end the dying DM could say “LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE BECOME!”
Since I’m Mormon, the thing about Mormon students going up to you just struck me as really funny. Possibly since I remember another Mormon kid telling me that Pokemon was evil when I was about 5. People are just stupid when it comes to things like this. Oh, conservatives, you crack me up.
Also, I really liked that remix of your theme. Even if it was what you used from then on, I would have been happy. I do like the other version just as much, though.
Well, I wouldn’t condone the movie that you want to make, since you want to apparently take the subject matter seriously, despite you yourself being a gamer. If it had some kind of self-aware satire thrown in, then perhaps I would like it, but from what you said, it seems like you want to just flat out make a “gamers are evil” film, and I don’t want to be told that, and it makes it no different than Mazes and Monsters in that regard.
This commentary was really underwhelming, but alas…
Mr. Antwiler, a moment of your time? I doubt you’ll ever read this, but it’s worth a try.
Now, I’m very neutral about your videos. Some of them I liked, some I don’t. I made my account just to tell you this.
Now, as a would-be writer, I have to tell you that I’m disapointed in your decision to abandon your screenplay. Now, I can see why you would do it. I mean, if I ever look back at my previous writings, I think to myself “Did someone slip drugs in my Pepsi?” However, I didn’t just abandon it. I re-read my scripts to find what worked and what didn’t.
I guess if you thought the premise itself wouldn’t work, I can understand that. However, upon hearing that premise, I actually thought it was interesting. Then again, this is coming from someone who liked most of the games and movies you despised. So, a difference in opinion can contribute.
I’m not saying I would see your movie because I’m some ass-kissing fanboy. Like I said, I’m neutral about your videos. I may not consider you the best internet reviewer (but far from the worst), but as a writer, I have a great deal of respect for you now.
If your project ever does make it on the big screen, I’ll totally see it. Trust me. Someone as famous as you has a better chance of hitting it than I do. My only regret would be being too poor to donate.
Sincerily (correct me if I misspelled), Josh S.
Just to point out, you’re posting a note to Noah, claiming to believe he’ll never read it, on a video thread where he’s responding to the commentary he clearly reads. Just thought I should point out that lack of thought.
Give the kid a break. He’s star struck. :)
If A Serbian Film can get funding, your nerdsploitation film can.
SPOONY I AM DOWN FOR $10 for the movie.
I didn’t care for the alternate intro then, and I don’t care for it now. I’m not going to bust anyone’s chops over it, just my personal taste.
Dude Spoony if you need someone to play the satanic cult leader in your movie, I’M YOUR MAN!!!! I love to watch and laugh at stupid satan related exploitation movies!
Loved your review and I always get a kick out of your indepth commentaries.
I got the Monster-a-Go-Go reference, but I almost wish I hadn’t. Dear god, that movie is awful. The episode is great, but… gah.
Wow… The Mormon students seriously got on your case about playing D&D? Living in Utah and being Mormon, I find that pretty hilarious, cause SO many of us play D&D around here. Those kids must have had those weird parents that wont let their kids watch anything above a G rating and think that the word ‘stupid’ is bad.
I personally enjoyed the “Metal” intro. I did wonder if we were going to be seeing it more then once, but the fact that you credited it in the intro as a fan intro, I at least, felt was a hint on that subject. If other fans start making intros, play them! Don’t let rabid fan violence get you down. Heck, if the AVGN fans are any indication, they don’t always know what they’re talking about even if they think they do. (Check out their comments any time ScrewAttack is mentioned on James’ channel.)
Yeah that gambling stuff was bullshit. If we want to get technical up in here anything could be used to gamble with. I could start a gambling ring playing rock, paper, scissors if I wanted. I guess they would have to take away my hands then. As for the video games and violence thing I personally think it’s crap. Blaming video games is just people passing blame onto something else. It’s mindboggling that people are defending cold blooded murderers by saying a plastic disk did it. That’s like blaming a gun for a crime instead of a person. At the end of the day they just need to accept that it was the individuals responsibility because if we start blaming negative stimuli for the problem then that opens the door to a lot of other shit we blame instead. I would personally blame the monster in my closet, it would sound more original that way….I like the alternative intro by the way.
Excellent advice near the end, Spoony. I pointed my group to your Mazes and Monsters review and your Dragon Strike riff and they found them both hilarious. Mind you, they said they’d kill me if I tried to act like the Dragon Strike DM.
I loved the Heavy rock version. Living Illusion did Linkara’s song too, and that was great as well. I think you should definitely bring it back every once in awhile. Also, the video you put together was pretty cool, definitely fit the mood of the music well. I think if you do reviews/videos of darker material you should use that one to “set the mood”
I really liked Living Illusion’s version of the song. I’d love to see it more on your movie reviews or special event (E3, PAX) coverage.
I personally thought that the Living Illusion version of the song was Bad Ass. I downloaded it from their site, and I thought it was an awesome change up for the site. Not an every time thing, but I like a little variety every once in a while. All those people who gave you all that backlash, Spoony, they definitely don’t speak for all of us.
hey Spoony, you should write a memoir entited “Magic cards and Satanism”
Great commentary Spoony. I’m sorry you had so much trouble in high school. I’m so glad I went to a highschool where nerds were pretty much ignored. Also, I loved the intro and I thought it was obvious that it was a one time thing. Though I like the idea of using it for darker themed videos like, oh, Halloween specials (hint hint).
I love the movie idea and would totally help fund it (if I had any money). Have you thought of writing a book version? You’d probably have a pretty good chance of getting it published (if Stephanie Meyer can get published anyone can).
I still like the Living Illusion version of the song, but then I have a wide range in tastes.
This is a bit of a downer… But my mother had cancer and she went through a successful treatment, but not long after she burned all my gaming books ($250 to $300 worth of material) while I was at work. She said evil spirits associated with the gaming books gave her cancer. She is otherwise a rational person. For the next two years or so, I kept all my gaming book in the trunk of my car, until I could move away from home.
Tragedies like Columbine happened where I live as well.
And media as well as politicians blamed all these ‘assassinations’ on games too. Which is quite interesting due to the fact, that nobody really put the effort to investigate about those peoples social lives and how someone becomes a ‘psycho gamer’.
Media hasn’t really changed.
Its funny how people don’t ever say the bible should be banned when guys like Charles Manson and other religiously motivated lunatics use it as an excuse. Ive never played D&D but I have been into a Games Workshop in my younger days and I really couldn’t see any of those people conducting black mass or stabbing people.
Funny you should say that:
In 1992, a group of “concerned citizens” attempted to file a suit arguing that the Bible, the Quran, and several other religious texts should be banned because they claimed the same thing. A similar case was attempted in 1998.
In the years following the murder of John Lennon, parents groups attempted to remove copies of “Catcher in the Rye” for the same reason.
As it is with D&D, so it is with everything else: people want a scapegoat. The reality of what drives a sociopath is multi-faceted, and is more often than not a product of social issues and unresolved co-morbid psychological problems.
From some people blaming a healthy mental exercise like D&D was easier than admitting that poor parenting and supervision was at fault. For others, claiming that the perversion of a Holy Book’s enlightened teachings was easier than admitting that the monster that hunts them is the product of social factors and mental pathology which could very easily manifest in them as well. Still others are more willing to pass the blame for a musical celebrities death than coming to grips with with the factors that birthed such a tragedy. Factors that should have been seen and stopped with due diligence.
People don’t like admitting that the monster on the TV screen, is just a human being. People don’t like admitting that the creature that stands before them in chains could’ve been their son or daughter. People don’t like the idea of looking in the mirror and wondering if one day they too will break.
….and so they blame others.
If i were to come up with my own reason as to why shootings happen at schools i would point my finger directly at their peers. Students in high school are absolutely merciless to each other. Politicians want to point the finger at games because it’s easy and they don’t have to work as hard to fix a social problem. Even the new anti bullying laws are just glossing over the problem.
Well, it depends on each individual case. I doubt such tragedies only have its roots in social life at school.
Even though school is an exaggerated image of society (The rich, the poor, the IT-Girls or how they are called, the nerds e.g.) I believe it rather strengthens the tendency towards violent break-outs than causing it.
As far as I know, it’s not only the politicians than the society itself who wants something definite all the blame can be pushed onto. We all know one guy alone may be smart but a load of people mostly is irritated and does not think further and so greatly accepts games as a source of evil. As you said, games are easier to fight than work on social problems.
Anti bullying laws? Ugh, this sounds very strange to me. :(
I liked the Living Illusion version of the song and to be honest the negative lash the song got really pushed me away from your forums (I registered about the time your monsters & mazes review came up). Seriously those people were so tense about A THEME SONG. And it was obvious you will use it once maybe twice since the video for intro was also switched.
Seriously sometimes I just don’t understand if people don’t have more important things to worry about (like not starving and such) than a theme song for a completely free show on the internet.
I like the remix.
I like the line “they all look like nerds, they look like me, they look like you, they look like harmless people” but perhaps you’ve never seen a nerd in a monocle.
Spoony! I’ll be an actor in your movie and I’ll work for free! I’m pretty sure I’m not alone too.
I only ever had one person at school who thought D&D was dangerous. He didn’t so much think of it as evil, but just seemed to be afraid that it sent you mad or something. Beyond that people either didn’t care or just must’ve thought “nerds!”.
Now-a-days it’s much more widely accepted (just like playing computer games, etc). Truly Revenge of the Nerds xD
my 7th grade English teacher did his own little informal study on the subject. It turns out that the people at least at my high school that played D&D were the students with the highest grades. So one can infer that games that force you to use your imagination appealed to the highest intellects of our culture.
We still got out asses kicked by the jocks though…
Am I the only one thinking that a movie review isn’t really an epic production and it doesn’t need a commentary track? Come on, it’s a review, no big deal. And you, Spoony, are a reviewer, so review something, like you used to do. That’s why I visit your site. Not to watch some random clips from Youtube, not to watch you talking about your footage I’ve already seen, but to know your opinion on stuff I’m also interested in.
I’d like to see old Spoony back. The new one is really disappointing.
You DO know he’s really sick right? Like he went to the hospital and is taking a lot of medication heart condition sick? So it’s a little hard for him to do reviews right now. So bitching about more reviews makes you seem really insensitive. I mean he is only one man and if he can barely get up in the morning how do you expect him to record reviews. He’s working on a Halloween episode and he’s writing scripts so just be patient.
How would I know? I’m not his neighbour or friend, I’m his reader. And he set a high level of content on this site long time ago, so I naturally expect he’ll keep up the good work.
But if you’re sick, sorry about that last message, Spoony. Get well soon!
I’m sorry if I came off as rude before but I’ve been in his position (I’m a journalist myself) and when I got sick right after PAX, people started demanding more reviews/articles but all I could give them were short little blurbs cuz I could barely get out of bed. So I was a little agitated. But I didn’t mean any offense, I just think we all miss Spoony on his regular consistent basis
He’s been tweeting about it for over a week. You can read his twitter feed right on the front page of the site. But who am I to question your passive perception(or lack thereof)?
Well Spoony’s sick at the moment so this is somethng to keep us going while he recovers. Plus he has indicated a few times this is something close to his heart so he’s naturally going to expound on it. I too would like to see some more movie reviews – but let’s give him a bit of space and let him recover before we nag him :).
I really love the Living Illusion cover and if they ever did a full version my mind would be blown. The lyrics really work well with the tune. As a permanent theme I can understand somewhat the hostility because they are used to the old one but I really loved this version. I find myself humming it to myself from time to time.
And I love this review. In fact I mentioned it in my film class when we were talking about book to movie adaptations as well as when we were talking about modern propaganda films (i.e 70s to now) and I actually got the professor to pull up the video in class and we watched it.
That was fun
Nice commentary, Spoony ^^ !
It’s funny how you mention American media demonizing the old Doom game. Here in Germany, whenever our paranoid media talks about EEEEVILL video games that turn innocent kids into mass-murdering psychopaths, they talk about Counter-Strike – or show at least the cover of the game to let the people now what they’re talking about.
Interestingly, they practically never SHOW any of the “ultra-violent stuff” going on in CS because of how old it is…
Weather you return to blogging/reviewing or not, just hope you get better Spoony.
I liked that opening by Living Illusion. I like the classic opening too. Use them as little or as much as you like. You generally have my taste in music.
Honestly if people don’t like what you do, then they can go screw themselves. Sure fans matter, but you should be able to do what you want. I actually loved the opening on this one.
The same stuff over and over is just too monotonous.
Sorry to hear you’re sick. Where’s a Phoenix Down when you need one (yeah, FF reference, couldn’t help it)? Get well soon.
Also sorry that your school experiences were so negative. I played various roleplaying games during my school years and never encountered such things. But take solace in vindication, the best revenge is success, so on and so forth.
Pfff. Screw Pheonix down, he needs a remedy, and an elixir.
I hope he won’t need a Phoenix Down! God forbid!
You know, I start to thinking about this movie and I really don’t think the message is actually suppose to be “D&D and other roleplaying games are eviiiiiiiiiil”. I never actually saw it, so I’m just going with the part that you showed us and told us about, I may be completly wrong. Consider the fact that it was the game that inspired Jay-Jay to keep on living instead of killing himself while helping him deal with the pressure of being a teen genius with a batshit insane mother and that it probably helped motivate Freddy(I know it’s not that character name but whatever) to keep to his goal of being a game designer even against the disapproval of his parents. Then you have Robby, who as you said has a very shitty family and apparently is shown to have some problem with obsession already, as they show when he’s talking with Kate at Jay-Jay’s party and the part with the bed that you told us about here.
The other reason for why this movie may actually be pro-rpg is the detective. He seems to be the only real anti-rpg character in the movie and everything he says is wrong. While you didn’t show it, I imagine Kate would have told him that Robby called her in the middle of the night claiming to be in New York and if he did his job he would have found the map to a place called the twin towers or the two towers or whatever and put 2 and 2 together. But nop, he’s convinced that one of them killed Robby in a game of Mazes&Monsters until they talked about their cave larping and he’s sure that he’ll find Robby’s dead body out there. The only thing he did was making vague accusation a the group, crushed a girl’s hope that her boyfriend is ok and waste the city’s time and money for a pointless search that could have been prevented if he had at least called his colleague in New York to keep an eye for a guy looking like Tom Hanks wandering in the city acting like a holy man in a fantasy universe. All because he hate roleplaying game ever since he lost his level 12 elf at the entrance of the Tomb of Horror. Add that to the scene at the begginning with the journalist, we find out that what he said happened was pretty much all wrong by the end, wich could represent not to take everything the media says at face value or may be a jab at journalist not doing their research.
Maybe the promotion around the film made it seems anti-rpg or some popular dude misinterpreted the movie or people at the time were really against the idea of roleplaying game and decided that the movie was supporting their opinion. Maybe you didn’t show some scene that would totally rip my theory to shred, but from your comment, it seems unlikely. I should probably try to watch this movie myself to see if my idea do make sense, but it look so boring…
The problem with the RPG-hate wave was that some of the christians against it were really batshit insane. I don’t mean it in a casual way, I do mean batshit insane. The argument they made was, that when you cast spells you actually truly summon demons and TEH DEVIL and when you have a God as a priest, that God is actually truly a demon and TEH DEVIL.
I had a quick glance over Jack Chick’s sources and own books on that, and boy… When they encounter a schizophreniac with hallucinations and delusions, it’s TEH DEVIL, and D&D was of course to blame. I don’t believe in summonable demons and the devil, and any sane person shouldn’t do so actually IMO.
No wonder all mystic non-LaVeyan satanists that actually believed they could summon demons I met had hardcore christian backgrounds – they are the only one who seem to believe that stuff.
Also, haters gonna hate, try your own stuff and roll with it. I like both intros – and even when the nerd changed his themes up with fan remixes, there was an uproar among some of his fans. Although that may also be because GT commenters are premature idiots on average.
Lets say you could summon demons and you did worship Satan…why the hell would you disseminate that information through card games? Don’t warlocks traditionally (I only have fantasy novels to go on here folks, so sorry if this is mostly conjecture) want to hoard their power? I mean it’s not like Satanists work on the Drug Dealer/Cable TV method they’re evil, they want to rule the world, not give magical secrets to angsty teenagers. It’s ridiculous.
Indeed, true devil worshippers would never resort to such things. Although his theory of course was, that they unknowingly summon demons, and D&D Magic: The Gathering and company were invented by Satan himself to trick young people to summon demons. When you tap that swamp to generate black mana, guess what: DEMONS! AND YOU DIDN’T EVEN KNOW IT! SOON YOU WILL HAVE THE URGE TO KILL YOUR FAMILY AND YOURSELF! WIZARDS OF THE COAST ARE TEH SATAN.
Yupp, he’s a lunatic, unfortunately there were and are many people that believe stuff like that and act along those lines of thought.
“I had a quick glance over Jack Chick’s sources and own books..”What did you expect? The man’s own sources were only from guys within his own circle of hyper-fundamentalists and Chick himself? Good night Irene. If “nuttier than a fruit log” was D&D skill, his character would have a +30 to everything he did.Seriously, I am a devout Christian with a minor in Divinity Studies and a BA in Comparitive Religious Studies and even I can’t figure out where the hell he pulled that crap from.
yupp, unfortunately as much as he is crazy he was also ifluential in certain circles. His notion of “real demons are summoned” was a leading voice in the choir of the fundie opposition which unfortunately oozed over to the mainstream.
Of course the guy is a lunatic, and he is as representative of christians as FSTDT, problem is that they are a very vocal minority, even more so today as back then as it seems.
Pasah..the only guys that believed that stuff were about as “mainstream” ANYTHING (because the d&d panic crossed ideological lines) as a kick to the balls in a boxing match. *The problem is that this kind of a moral panic, one that unites the shrieking minority which exist across multiple ideological groups (lib & con, religious & non-religious, authoritarian & authoritative, etc) with the fear of their children or society coming to harm is always the sign of a greater problem within society itself, one that is being conveniently swept off to the corner while the scapegoat is targeted. *Give “Moral panics: the social construction of deviance” a read.
Spoony, I’ve watched a ton of your stuff and do enjoy all of your videos. Just a big fan.
Anyway after watching this I’ve been thinking more and more about trying D&D. Getting the game isn’t the problem I’m more curious about how many people would it take to make it really enjoyable?
I dunno why everyone else said what they did about the Living Illusion cover but I thought it was so awesome that I made it my ringtone. An extended version would be amazing.
I would just like to say that I REALLY liked the Living Illusion cover of your opening song. And yes, I would love to listen to an extended version.
In the 90′s, France was shaken by a famous talk-show (picture Ophrah), when it revealed the dangers of roleplaying games. Several families came and explained how roleplaying ruined their kids lives, like some of them were institutionalized, and, if I remember right, one guy actually killed himself in order to transfer his mind to his unborn brother. So being in a roleplaying club was kind of frowned upon.
Luckily for me, my high school let us keep the roleplaying club. We had to show what we were doing to a guy from the staff, who deemed it harmless. We even had a budget, which nobody looked into as long as we kept it balanced (a good thing as we would have had some difficulties justifying an invoice for Kult or In Nomine Satanis), and my school actually paid for most of my magic cards, and my Legend of the Five Rings clanbooks.
Don’t write a movie, write a book! I want to read all those horrible things. I’d buy it even.
Maybe such a book would even become famous and then maybe someone else would throw lots of money at you cause they’d want to make it a movie. Probably not but still, that book might’ve become my bible.
Holy Moly! I thought I was the only one to mix with the goths and vampires! Lol! You summed up my experience on the whole matter perfectly! Only I mostly watch movies/tv shows and didn’t game until I was in my 20′s.
I really enjoyed the insight into your life with this one, Spoony. By the way, I loved this version of the intro.
I went through the same crap in Utah growing up. Magic: the Gathering first, followed by D&D and other games. I got accused of distributing the cards. My friends all had their own decks, but the principle was convinced there was some sort cult or gang that was being developed by the distribution of Magic cards. Seriously. As a side note, I was interested to heare that there is a noticable Mormon population in Tempe.
Translate your Zardoz review.
i fucking loved that intro. best intro you ever had
About your written reviews: I’ve read I think most of them and I’m working towards reading them all. I’m at college, and the internet in the dorms is TERRIBLE, so I now can only watch your videos when I visit my parents (which sucks, because I absolutely adore your videos). So instead, any time I don’t have homework, I go back and read your written reviews, and they are honestly the funniest things I have ever read in my life. So please, I beg of you, PLEASE do a video adaption of both your Zardoz and Evil Dead Trap reviews. You would make me the happiest person in the world.
I’m sick and tired of the old song.
I didn’t have much of a problem with the alternate theme song. I didn’t really like it, but it was okay.
I’m the same age as you, Spoony, and I had an entirely different experience in high school. Heck, I went to a conservative private Christian high school and no one cared when Magic the Gathering became a popular lunchtime activity. When I had just started reading the Wheel of Time series, my Bible teacher noticed and professed being a fan. I guess just something about the culture in California.
Differnt Strokes for Different Folks as they say. Your teacher had read the books so knew there was nothing horrible inside and most schools understand or dont care till a student or parent gets involved with complaints.
I had to deal with the whole “D&D/MTG is used to indoctrinate kids into witchcraft” thing too. Though it doesn’t sound near as bad as what you had. But then again I didn’t play that much in high school. Funny thing is, I’m Mormon. I’ve NEVER seen anything wrong with playing D&D/MTG (unless, of course someone developed an unhealthy fixation). I don’t accredit the fear towards D&D at the religion, I’m sure the Mormon kids that you grew up with were just ignorant towards the game and had only the best intentions. Ignorance breeds fear.
Another odd thing is I know a witch (white) and she stopped playing MTG and D&D.
I am a very odd person.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I would watch the SHIT out of “Creatures and Caverns”.
People were banned from playing magic cards at our school in the mid 90s, probably for the better really because I heard some of those cards would be bought for up to about $100
Heck Pokemon was banned from our middle and high school (I was in middle at the time) because people where bringing their uber expensive cards to school and getting them stolen. Which typically ended in the thief showing up the next day with the missing cards bragging he got one and getting his ass kicked by a large group of his victims.
Makes me glad to have gone to a very small high school. I can only imagine what it would have been like being Mormon AND a D&D player.
Given the amount of Mormons who play D&D (at least from my experience), I don’t think that you would’ve had a problem (unless you ran into the same weirdos that Spoony did)..
It’s Ironic how religious groups blame games like D&D or Doom, and yet they ignore it when their own followers go insane and do things based on the bible.
My nanna used to be a nurse and she tended to mentally ill people who though they were Jesus or Moses.
She and other hospital staff had to restrain and subdue many of these ‘I’m Jesus” people to prevent them from jumping off a building to prove that they can fly.
Dont forget the fanatics who kill others because “God told me to”..Oh, and the people who sneak into the zoo/circus at night and climbed into a Lion Den/cage at the Zoo to try and tame a lion -bible style- and end up being mauled to death.
D&D, Doom, Assassins creed, Mortal Kombat, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and even The Bible DONT make people do bad things….People who are insane do bad things and they/their families and the media blame it on the stuff they follow as an excuse.
I kinda liked this version of your theme song, good and interesting commentary Spoony, thanks again.
Feels like I´ve seen this movie, though I can´t really remember it all too well. It sucks balls anyway. Wow… Tom Hanks, nice acting haha.
I really liked your jokes, and though some may hate me for this comment, but I really laughed at your Twin Towers joke, really funny! Overall really good review! *thumbs up* to Spoony!
Im so glad to be living in a country where the religius nut’s are the minority. We have our share of dumb people but atleast they dont impose religius dogma on people.
I don’t think it’s “religion vs. DnD” . It’s really just “Panicky authority figures doing what they usually do”:
It’s like I’ve said before: one of the worst (and only scream outs) I got was from the parents of one of my younger players. They were atheists themselves and they barged into the comic shop where we held the game, pulled their kid out and accused me of “poisoning his mind” with “magical thinking” all in an attempt to “convert him to Christianity”. They called D&D a “Religious Indoctrination System”. The thing is, I knew them. I went to school with their eldest son. Yet, they just snapped on me.
Historically, it’s been parents (religious and non-religious alike) who just overreact. You might want to give “Moral panics: the social construction of deviance” a read and you’ll see that this “D&D panic” was not restrained to any one viewpoint or ideology.
Weird stuff. But in the end I guess you’ll find wacky folks in every group.
Yes, you must make Creatures & Caverns
Already exists, here you go:
yea, I know. I don’t really like GURPS either but well..
I agree with the other posters…You must make Creatures and Caverns!
Also, It really is stupid how religious types think D&D or board and video games in gerneral lead to insanity and ‘witchcraft’
Well, as a gamer myself, I know that is bullshit!
the only REAL effect games have on me is that I dont like losing as it irritates me, but’ thats about it. I get narky on times, yet I do it in a comical way.
For example, when I play Assassins Creed Brotherhood Online and I’m killed by someone playing The Barber, I’ll yell out “Agh! Sweeny Todd got me!”
Or if i’m killed by the FoodPad, I’ll shout out “Damn you, Justin Beiber! Get a haircut, ya loony!”
If anyone wants to, feel free to add my PSN and Xbox360 names to your lists.
Uh, “religious types”?
These guys were just a handful of misguided souls who managed to scare some parents into panicking. But this was hardly restricted to the fringes of Christianity. In fact, in the 80s you had a fringe atheist group with respondents in multiple countries trying to do the exact same thing (get dnd put “under watch” or outright banned because they felt it would make children violent deviants or indoctrinate them into religions).
As a devout Christian and lifelong D&D player, I always had a sigh and a chuckle everytime Jack Chick is brought up. The man was not only theologically illiterate (No, seriously. Not a darn thing in his tracts have biblical support and his exegesis is pitiful ), a bigot (he really had it out for Catholics, Episcopalians, and…really anyone who wasn’t part of his very specific radical sect), and lousy writer (What? It’s true!), he was just plain bonkers.
I’ve been playing tabletop RPGs for many years now and I’ve played with hundreds of christians from almost every denomination, and countless other individuals from various walks of life ( hindu, muslim, jewish, buddhist, non-religious, and neo-pagan). Not once have I ever, EVER heard a problem about it from any of them.
The guys that do this, religious and non-religious alike are just a minuscule handful of malcontents who just like to raise a racket here and there just for attention. .
Really? I dint know about Jack Chick and others like him.
I guess that all this propaganda is so damaging to both the target of the hatred as well as to religion thats used as a excuse for blaming things.
But as for certain groups who brainwash children, check out a documentary called “jesus camp” it shows just how extreme christians can be…but I wouldnt call them chirstians. I’d call them “loonies” as they go way, way, WAY overboard with things like on the very first day of the camp, the organiser lectures the kids about Harry potter saying how evil he is and how reading the books leads to satan. One phrase the person said was “I dont care if he’s a hero, Harry potter is a warlock and would have been executed in biblical times”…This caused all the children to cry with greif and sadness. They were no doubt banned from reading Harry Potter books and seeing the films.
I saw that documentary at University as part of a “Documentary film and televison” course. And let me tell you, those people who ran that camp should have been arrested as they were brainwashing innocent kids with nonsense. Even other Christian groups thought they went too far and had them shut down.
And like you said, it’s not just religion….Remember when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles first came out in 1989? Parent groups tried to ban it because “it was violent”…Also they tried to ban The Simpsons too, because “Bart was a bad role model to children” and “Homer was a stupid parent”, even though Homer was SUPOSED to be stupid.
I did see “Jesus Camp”. The main issue (and believe me, I could go on for days) with that camp is that it was created and led by Becky Fischer, a self-appointed “minister” who has been repeatedly thrown out of the Pentecostal church for her bizarre, twisted and very heretical version of Christianity. She is considered persona non grata in mainstream Christian circles, and even smaller churches have been very wary of her and will not even touch her “On Fire” Ministry (and mind you, this was six to ten years before “Jesus Camp” was filmed). That’s not even getting into the ridiculous political theory she was trying to preach (so bad in fact. that Pope John Paul II condemned the camp’s practices before it was any more than one year in operation).
In fact, the “Jesus Camp” incident has a secular parallel: During the heyday of the USSR and up until it’s collapse a government organization known as “Liga des Gottlosen Kämpfers”, (The League of the Militant Godless) ran schools and “camps” where children were required by law to go to be indoctrinated not only in their particularly aggressive brand of Atheism (really more of an Anti-Theism), but also to develop unquestioning loyalty to the government and to expose and point out anyone who was seen as being “Against us” (ie: practicing religion, speaking out against the government, trying to contact imprisoned family, etc). Bertrand Russell, during a visit to the USSR actually watched one such camp and along with an unpleasant meeting with Stalin, the trip deeply horrified Russell. They were repeatedly denounced by even the most hardline of Atheists (and Russell was about as hardline as it gets).
In the end, you’ll find an equivalent to even the most heinous of practices or the most idiotic of actions on either side of the religious-political spectrum. To give you another example, Harry Potter was glared at by militant wackos amongst both the Religious and Atheists (one atheist philosopher even attempted to have the HP books put under the “adult” section and ban them for anyone under age because he thought the books would “corrupt” children and went so far as to try to disrupt a book signing by Rowling screaming at her like a manic. )
The problem as I see it, is that you’ll find people from either side complaining about the same thing, claiming the same moral ground, but ultimately for a different locus. What does this mean? It means that ultimately these “panics” are the result of a few wackjobs trying to grab political power or at the very least, get attention. Why were video games targeted? Because they gave attention and clout to the ones who targeted them (Jack Thompsen uses this tactic quite well in his political run).
But who loses in the end? We, the gamers.
I got ninja’d! What the hell, Lou? I had my entire thing written in Word and I was about to paste into the comments section, and you beat me to the punch! =)
Even though I am not an exploitation fan, if you want to write a movie, just go for it. I myself am writting a story, now it isn’t good and I didn’t come far, but since I start early (BTW same counts for you spoony) I can always change it or better it, until it is exactly what I want :)
As a Mormon that grew up in a suburb of Salt Lake, I can understand the demographics of a high school like the one you attended, what with the high concentration of LDS people in the Mesa and Tempe areas of Arizona. And, as a person who graduated in 2000, I can also understand the time period. I think part of the problems you may have suffered in high school at the hands of misguided Mormons stems mostly from misunderstanding. MTG was kind of a new thing at the time (at least it was in my high school), and since most high schoolers at that point had been too old to play Pokemon, the idea of CCG’s was a foreign one, and likely many people thought Magic cards were like some sort of tarot deck or something.
Most humans are lazy by nature, so it was probably easier to ignore the weirdos with their strange game who didn’t go to church on Sunday, or make token attempts to “bring unbelievers into the fold” so they’d feel good about accomplishing their missionary goal for the week, than to actually get to know what really goes on in other peoples’ lives. And people at high schools where Mormons make up the dominant population are especially bad at this. It’s easy when their group of friends at school is the same group of friends at church on Sunday, or during church activities during the week, but if one of them befriends someone outside that group, then suddenly they’ve got to adapt to a whole different set of values (which may not even be that different; Mormons don’t have the market cornered on morality, that’s for sure) and now they can’t talk about the funny thing that Brother So-and-so did Wednesday night at the young men’s activity without having to explain a lot of basic details to their one different friend, or be sad that he wasn’t there. Most high schoolers aren’t mature enough to deal with that kind of thing, so they either feel that they either have to convert you in order to befriend you, or just ignore you, justifying it with a thought like, “Well, it’s OK that I don’t hang out with Spoony: he plays that devil game” without even getting to know either you or the game.
I can’t excuse this kind of behavior. In fact, it’s fairly abhorrent and against a lot of what Mormons and Christianity in general actually stand for (you know, the whole “judge not, lest ye be judged” thing). I guess I just wish to say that I doubt it was you, or even D&D, but simply a large group of immature minds not wanting to deal with something they didn’t understand that helped make your gamer group social outcasts or whatever. D&D was probably just a scapegoat. And I want to apologize on behalf of Mormons everywhere for the ignorant, intolerant behavior of high schoolers that make otherwise perfectly good people into some sort of social pariahs. I saw it happen to a lot of good people (even other religious people; I had a good friend who was a devout Catholic that ended up moving out of Utah so people would stop inviting him to seminary and LDS institute classes). I know an anonymous Internet apology probably doesn’t make up for years of unrighteous persecution, but hey, it’s a start. Most Mormons are pretty good once they get out of high school and grow up, just like most people.
Also, oddly enough, I played my first D&D campaign as a freshman attending BYU, and you can’t get much more Mormon than that. Although, our group of gamers was made up of outcasts even there, but I don’t know if we were outcasts *because* we played D&D or we were all social misfits anyway and so congregated together and decided to play D&D. We did have one player leave the game because he felt it was getting too dark, but that was mostly because we had another player who was playing a Chaotic Evil barbarian who spent most of the campaign torturing gnomes by pulling their toes off. I was playing a gnome at the time, but I still thought it was hilarious.
I doubt it’s a Mormon thing (given the amount of long term D&D veterans who are Mormons I’ve played with). I think it is something closer to just universal social stigmas and people being ostracized for being different (something that will happen in any given population irregardless of race, religion or creed). In the end it’s just one of those things that all demographics are guilty of.
You still play?
Yeah, that’s true. Heaven knows Mormons have endured their share of persecution and accusations of Satanism when they’re in the minority. I guess it’s just more “high school sucks for everyone not in the popular majority,” which is a lesson taught by pretty much every after-school special or Disney Channel movie.
I haven’t played a ton of D&D recently (unless you count old Bioware RPG’s like Baldur’s Gate). I recently got into the Star Wars RPG but didn’t stick with my group that long, mostly because the game is heavily biased toward playing a Jedi or a Sith and pretty much everyone else sucks.
Yeah the Star Wars Saga RPG kinda blows because of the obvious Jedi Focus (which is kinda odd considering that most people played the RPG to play a Jedi or a Sith or a Force Witch).
If you want a Space Opera game like that but more balanced, I would go for “Star Blazer Adventures”.
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i like the rock song better is there anyway to download it
The closest I can find to Gorevil is Grovyle which is a pokemon… but this was out just a little bit before pokemon, so that doesn’t count. For some reason though, Gorevil sounds familiar. I think a GM of mine once used the name for a homebrew monster in his 3.5 edition game, which makes for some delicious irony.
I really liked this song more then the current one.
Mormon students? Really? lol, well, times have changed I guess cause all the people I play DnD with are Mormons, including myself, lol. Nowadays there’s plenty of Mormon nerds, I seriously doubt that would happen much now.
the song on this video was the lamest shit i ever heard. … suppose you kids like that music (lol iam 23) … but… really… the music is siiimply frrooooootteee -break me dont break me break me-
- G A Y -
wow you are just an awful person. way to go, your comment is the most ignorant comment i read all day.
For what it’s worth I liked this little intro, but I can see people wigging out on it.
I’ve never understood why jocks are rather mean to nerds, especially the rpg lovers who get lost in the fantasy. While alot of them are obsessed with fantasy football… which is pretty similar.
I’ve been playing D&D(though mostly Pathfinder these days)for 29yrs. I’ve seen the Gospel Tracts. They make me laugh. Even as a Christian I find them a waste of print. At one point I WAS a Satanist. The fact is that Gamers are harmless and if they knew what Satanism was really all about they’d shit themselves. Are some Gamers Satanists? Sure,but so are some 7/11 clerks. And when you consider that Gary Gygax got his inspiration for D&D from J.R.R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings/Hobbit(Tolkien’s faith is well documented). Add to that the fact that Gygax himself was a Christian, I’m sure he said to himself “I know! I’ll create a game that with lead millions of impressional young minds into Satan’s clutches!! Muah ha ha!!”
Yeah, but what do you expect? Chick is theologically illiterate and a poor writer. The man failed before he even picked up the pen.
I actually really like this song ^_^
Thanks for the cheap laugh of yet again proving that USA is pretty messed up. Seriously, the principal rule-bended just to let space for religion. What an joke man.
Not at all. This was a moral panic incited by parents that crossed most every barrier you can imagine (including the ideological). In Australia at the same time, for example, you had an Atheist parent group clamoring to ban D&D both because they claimed it increased deviancy AND because they thought it was a “religious indoctrination tool”.
Touché, it came out wrong, what I meant was that he used religion to his excuse. Yeah I wrote it pretty bad indeed. Anyways, the direct opposite in Australia? Who’d knew. Now when I think of it, we do live in time where everything is accepted, nothing is dampered.
I think I have found a way to make the monsters for this game that would even have an explained disappearance.
Imagine a mage with a coastal hold and Sahuagin for his servants. If you take them and make a 50% cross with Pseudodragon you would not only have an appearance match but you would have a resultant creature that is prone to be Lawful Neutral instead of Neutral good (pseudodragon) or Lawful evil (sahugin) and the natural defense of the pseudodragon is a chameleon ability.
Doesn’t that seem like it would be a good servant and also fit the Gorville’s disappearance?
I thought the throwing the wrong hand high was a joke not a mistake.
If you ever do get your insane movie idea together I would love to see it but I do not have the budget to attempt helping with it.
My only problem with the “harder” theme is that they stuck too tightly to the break me lyrics. It could have been made to fit a little better if they allowed themselves more liberty.
Well, I don’t see anyone else mentioning it so I guess I’ll let everyone know. I can’t remember the guys name but I do remember his story. He didn’t kill himself, at least not until years after this movie was made as after this movie was made… he was found. Alive and well in a different state avoiding his family and yes, he was having problems. His D&D group actually were probably his best allies as when he started playing campaigns more and more by himself entirely they saw a problem and got worried. He’d had problems with his parents regarding mostly his sexuality and one night went down to those steam tunnels to kill himself. He also failed. This humiliated him so he ran. Didn’t tell anyone just ran and shacked up with a friend. I have no confirmation as to whether or not he committed suicide later.
Nnnnoooo, James Dallas Egbert III, whose disappearance sparked the whole controversy, committed suicide on August 16, 1980, which was literally only one year and one day after the whole thing started. This movie was released in 1982. He only stayed with a friend for a little bit. Just about a month, I think it was.
Dude, no I love the rock intro. Its glorious.
I loved the intro, it was amazing. Screw your strange hardcore fans. I would also like an extended version of that song.
I really want that rock intro to be the perminant version. I don’t get that reaction at all.
Man playing D&D with you spoony would be great. I can never find people who are dedicated to play all the time. I live in Fort Worth TX if anyone is interested.
I loved the new music in this video. I hope you mix it back in from time to time. Cool commentary and good review.
Basically what your idiot fans are saying is that this song is better that the one before, and since they knew this, they thought you were gonna use this one instead. But we can’t have cozy cute carebear world, if you don’t continue using The Irresponsibles. Because letting them know that they suck AND not use their track, would be cataclysmic!
What the fuck are you babbling about?