E3 2010 Coverage – Day 2, Deus Ex 3

The Spoony One | Jun 20 2010 | more notation(s) | 

We went behind closed doors at Square-Enix and 2K to get super-secret details behind their upcoming games!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/L4SU7BHLM5IM6OMHKZY2TRHFBE RyanS

    Sweet as always sir!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zerpy-Norway/760066368 Zerpy Norway

    Finaly another long video :D

  • TotallyNotBob

    I have not been this excited for a game since Empire TW.

    Starcraft 2, Fallout Las Vegas, Deus Ex 3, new Total War. And I thought I was just about done with video games :)

  • http://twitter.com/Nukleon Adam FD

    Well, Spoony, I take it you didn't watch much Ghost in the Shell, considering your inherent (and usually well-funded) dislike of anime, but in addition to Blade Runner and Neuromancer, Ghost in the Shell is probably THE influence to this. The Stealth mode, the cybernetics, the general design and color of things, it's especially similar to the 2nd movie, Innocence.

    • Anonymous

      Very much agreed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zerpy-Norway/760066368 Zerpy Norway

    BETRAYAL!!!!

    Wow, the look on joe's face was priceless!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/MFTYGS4R6ECOVITX2PUVHEM6MI cncbn cvbncbn

    Yeah, there is no reason at all to be optimistic about XCOM.
    At least the Deus Ex 3 trailer showed some things that made me relate to the first game. With XCOM there isn´t anything at all that told me “hey, this is an X-COM game”

  • escushion

    Yeah, Skyward Sword looks exactly like Wind Waker! The bastards… :P Sorry. As a Nintendo fan, I admit I enjoy playing these things every time they come out, even though Twilight Princess disappointed me.

    Sounds like Spoony is really ripping at the game for not being X-Com without trying to see its own merits, and Joe is kind of making speculation about stuff that would be cool, but has yet to be shown or even hinted at.

    I think it looks cool, but I only ever played UFO Defense once when I was 10 and didn't get into it. And I loved Bioshock, so this suits me.

  • http://twitter.com/Nukleon Adam FD

    Well, they didn't show the “between mission” gameplay, but you still manage a base, research, construction and weapons etc, so it's still XCOM in that fashion

  • Kuncoss

    Talk about epic heated discussion about the new X-Com!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Griffin/100000925406994 Daniel Griffin

    I am a huge fan of the old X-Com days. I loved the micro-management of your teams every move. Of course, once you had the blaster bomb, you kind of won, but that was FREAKING FUN! This new game? Looks like a standard FPS. We REALLY don't need another FPS, we have PLENTY. Here was a GOLDEN chance to reinvent an ancient genre, and 2k dropped the ball hard. Score +1 for Spoony. “Like X-Com” isn't good enough to BE X-Com.

  • WilHiteWarrior

    lol nothing more scary than two critics who strongly disagree on something. I guess respecting the opinions of one another is out :P

    But I never played X-Com so i dont know. And F.E.A.R. sucked imo. was just a shooter with the scary kid from the ring occasionally making an appearance and had almost no plot whatsoever. Sorry just how i felt about that game

  • http://www.facebook.com/andrzej.postl Ondřej Postl

    Ok, I can take anything, but…but…WHO THE FUCK SAID THAT MAFIA 1 SUCKED? What kind of a retard was that guy? Yeah, it had it's limits and it had a couple of bugs, but still it was one of the best games in it's time! Fricken tards…*emo cry*

    • Anonymous

      I loved Mafia 1 too, but that game did have it’s flaws. I haven’t played it in years, and recently I saw a bit of the cutscenes. The voice acting in that game is HORRENDOUS. Plus, there really isn’t a lot to do, like rocnael said.

      I found it strange when Spoony said that the devs said the game sucked. I thought that their main attitude was to make a darker and more realistic game. I recall an interview where they said that Mafia I was a “tribute to gangster movies” and that this time they wanted to show more of the dark side of organized crime.

  • ninjawii

    You are being harshly unfair to nintendo. I HATE MOTION CONTROLS, but the new Zelda game looks like it uses them perfectly.

  • http://twitter.com/Schab0wy Wiktor Juneja

    23-52 haha “Spoony imma let you finish”

    a little kanye west moment from Joe :D

    BETRAYAL!!!!

  • http://twitter.com/KOPFJE Lauri Niskanen

    This +1000.

    Seriously Mafia 1 is in my top10 games list all time.

  • escushion

    “WHO THE FUCK SAID THAT MAFIA 1 SUCKED?”

    Apparently the makers of Mafia 2. =P

  • kikyoo

    I'm with ya spoony X-com looks like garbage. I'd rather do Pen and Paper X-com than another generic FPS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Gerard-Mckay/1552902991 Gerard Mckay

    At one point i though Joe was actually going to deck you Spoony.
    I don't really have an opinion on X-com having not played the orginal.
    Only thing i have to say is you and Joe have to make more videos where you debate, their funny and interesting :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Omnikus-Schlotter/100000373849732 Omnikus Schlotter

    Old

  • jewbagel

    Spoony, your public rage against XCOM is one of the best things I've ever seen. Next to you and Joe going at it. Great video guys. Fucking entertaining.

  • farimere

    Classic X-Com it is not. Just looks like another shooter to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/santtu.poikonen Santtu Poikonen

    I actually had to check from the comments how to spell x-com and after I googled it I realised that I have played the first one :P it was called “UFO: Enemy Unknown” in Europe.
    Haven't played any other x-com since, so I don't really have strong opinion about the new look. I just thought it looks pretty cool. To be fair I'm not a hardcore gamer and Spoonys comment “Just another horror shooter” propably is justified, but to me that doesen't really matter.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/XQHJKXOLX7OCTHIZ5R43NUZEIU hot564231

    Haha, spoony mocking Joe.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/MFTYGS4R6ECOVITX2PUVHEM6MI cncbn cvbncbn

    Sorry, but Spoony saw the demo and didn´t see anything like that. Only a very streamlined form of research.
    Of course, it would be awesome if they add it in the future, but so far it´s not the case.

  • Bathmatt

    I'm gonna have to side with Joe on this guys. Everything I've read in various interviews and articles about X-Com points to a lot of the old school elements still being present. Choice of research direction is still there, learning the aliens motives and plans is still there, varying mission types are still there (one article even hinted at the large scale terror missions returning) and a whole bunch of other stuff too. And I don't mind the art style. It's no more cartoony than, say, The Old Republic, and personally I'm tired of art styles that end up in uncanny valley.

  • http://cynik.co.uk Cynik

    THIS IS A BETRYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLL!!!!!!!

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/XQHJKXOLX7OCTHIZ5R43NUZEIU hot564231

    You just copy and pasted your last post… what the hell dude.

  • Bathmatt

    Sorry, the comment box is playing up for me. Disqus doesn't like me :(

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/XQHJKXOLX7OCTHIZ5R43NUZEIU hot564231

      Ah, I thought you were doing the “Me ME!!!! LOOK AT ME” comment

  • http://twitter.com/fullmetalbg Zlatan Andreev

    JewWario should have been the tie-braker on xcom….

  • LeeEnfeild

    Ugh. I hate watching developer interviews. Keenly rehearsed bullshit.

    I know it wasn't planned or anything, but that echo after BETRAYL!! just made it 200% more epic.

  • goodguya

    Feel free to go and hate Spoony. It's always the same with old curmudgeons like you. :P Any step forward is good for me, and Zelda always has a really nice tone for me. No old school gamer will ever like them again, or for that matter ANY Nintendo game unless it hearkens back to olden times.

    Speaking of old times, XCOM. I never played the original unfortunately, but this does look rather bland. I don't mind the graphics, but I do hate the goo things. They're choppy, nondescript, and don't seem to have any different AI then “jump”.

  • BassForever

    X-Com looks like a Bioshock mod, personally I think X-Com could have worked well as a FPS squad based shooter though I would have preferred the classic gameplay.

    • Anonymous

      The main issue is that there is just too many real-time FPShooters out there and so far, this seems to be BioShock on land though if they want to keep it as a strategy game then it’s basically Rainbow Six in the ’50s and you just replaced terrorists with aliens. Both are not that of the strategy genre which has been stuck in RTS and sim genres if you want to speak of mainstream games for a long time now.

  • americancheeze

    YOu and Joe actually have pretty good chemistry. You should do more work together.

  • areoborg

    I'm excited about the new Zelda game, and since you have a different opinion than me, you're obviously wrong, and should be burned at the stake. :p

    Though I do have one problem with the Deus Ex trailer. We see huge mobs of people in Detroit in the future. Are they implying that there will still be people living there 20 years from now? :D

  • victuz

    I loved Joes face when Spoony started screaming “BETRAYAL!!!”
    xD. Can't wait for the video from day 3 :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/tyrmcdohl Adam Nelson

    Awww, that was adorable, seeing you and Joe come to blows about XCOM.

  • L1nk1

    I'm anxious to hear more about the civ5 :p

    and maybe there will be reviews about the series.

  • rocnael

    To be perfectly honest, I didn't like Mafia 1.
    To me, it was just a barren game with basically no content except for the main story and the optional steal-the-car missions. Even No More Heroes has more stuff to do in the overworld than Mafia 1.
    The main story wasn't even that good. Some characters, like the hero's love interest only appear once and even though she gets mentioned later down the road, she's never to be seen again.
    Oh, and then, you have the car race. I don't even remember how many times I had to restart that thing.
    Though, to be fair, I played Mafia 1 a couple of months ago, so it was easier to see that the game didn't age well.

  • SubTonic

    Glad to hear that DX3 just might have some emphasis on stealth gameplay. That trailer was nothing short of amazing, though my favorite part of it was that song. My GOD, I want that fucking song in MP3 format right the fuck now. Anyway, that's about the only game out of the entire lineup that I'm waiting for. I hope it delivers what Eidos Montreal is promising. Oh, and I had no idea Square was publishing it. Huh. It seems like Square's really been pushing its way into the Western gaming market nowadays. I'm not sure how I feel about that…

  • http://twitter.com/dmyy20 Dana Stemo

    Just have to say, the ending was the best. Watching you two argue over XCOM was really funny. Also when you could hear the echo of “Betrayal” throughout the room was freaking epic :]

    Also, I sadly have not played Deus Ex before, but Deus Ex 3 looks really, really cool. Though I'm not going to lie…not to keen on the “Detroit is a hell hole” deal. I live in michigan, and Detroit is not that freaking bad. But if we keep making it look like a complete and utter shit hole in games and movies, no one will want to go there and it will eventually be a complete shit hole.

    Anywho, that rant out of the way, the game does look good, and I would love to get a closer look at it. Part of me hopes it comes out for more than just the PC because my comp is failing when it comes to playing games on it.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, that reminds me of The Wire and my friend Ella. She lives in Baltimore, the show’s setting, and every time I bring it up she reminds me that the city is not as bad as the show makes it out to be.

      Check it out if you have the time, Spoony. It’s one of the best shows to come out in recent years.

  • LegendoftheSkies

    Spoony better brace for some Nintendo fan hate mail :p

    Anyway, I thought he was a bit harsh on Zelda, but actually Zelda wasn't even my favorite game Nintendo showed. I was actually a bit disappointed that the demo for Zelda didn't seem to really show much beyond the new controls and some of the new items (which admittedly are pretty cool looking, especially the flying beetle).

    Kirby's Epic Yarn is actually what blew me away. Amazing style and creative game play. It's probably my favorite game that was shown at E3, I'm sad Spoony didn't cover that one, if it's something new and interesting out of Nintendo he wanted to see, the new Kirby game was it.

    I agree Civ V looks awesome though. I've only ever played Civ IV and I never got too deep into the mechanics of it, but the new one just looks sick.

  • http://twitter.com/ratixlangrisser Jonathon Benefield

    He didn't like the new Zelda because it DIDN'T try to be different than the other Zelda games.
    He didn't like the new XCOM because it DID try to be different than the other XCOM games.
    He didn't want to get bogged down by “franchise hell” but just about all the games he discussed (thus far) were new installments of games that have well-established franchises.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dustin-Gunn/100000267615428 Dustin Gunn

    Games aren't allowed to have sequels, unless I, Spoony, like them. I Am A Games Journalist!

  • escushion

    Well, Spoony made a throw-away comment about disliking Epic Mickey in the same train of thought as being displeased with Nintendo for doing the same thing again and again, so I have a feeling it's not just the gameplay, but also the re-use of franchises that have many, many entries. Mickey really hasn't had a game, and Epic Mickey looks to have great gameplay, but the brand name is old and heavily used. Same with Nintendo's usual stuff.

    So even though Kirby's Epic Yarn has a great look and gameplay, I don't know if it would've satisfied what Spoony was talking about, and might've been better in his eyes as a new character/franchise starting.

    You could say that for a lot of the Mario side-games though.

  • SubTonic

    Everyone has their own opinions, including Spoony. Maybe he wants to like the new Zelda, but he just wants something more out of it than what he's already seen/played. Maybe he's really passionate about XCOM and is anxious about a sequel even being made, just as I'm anxious about Deus Ex 3. Just be glad he's even honest with us and himself, unlike most other journalists and critics.

  • Kevin_Holsinger

    Good morning, Spoony and fellow Spooners.

    2:22: “So if you whip your piece out in front of a guy, he's gonna throw his hands up and sh*t his pants.”

    And suddenly my inner 13-year-old is giggling at the unintended double entendre.

  • Salenstormwing

    Ah, any day Spoony & Angry Joe are at each other's throats is a good day! Captain Angry Joe vs. Spoontok. Spooni-wan vs Sith Lord Joe. And now Angry Spoony vs Angry Joe!

    As for X-Com/XCOM, I'm with you on this one Spoony. They should have just renamed this game G-Men vs The BP Oil Aliens from Mars, and not keep trying to tie the game to the original X-Com franchise. And in some of the Gametrailers' vids for this game, the developer keeps talking about “strategy like in the original game”. Except all that's strategic about it is if you use a shotgun, a fire bomb, or a lightning gun to kill the alien oil goo. Even Brothers in Arms was more strategic than that, with letting you control multiple units via control pad commands to help flank and pin your enemy while systematically destroying them in an efficient method.

  • Kefka

    Can somebody post that BETRAYAL on youtube please? its AWESOME!!

  • Eener101

    I have to say I'm with Joe on his opinion. And I thought the graphical style was great.

    As for Zelda, I liked the artstyle, but I really hope they go back to the feel of the very first games. I hated all the games from the N64 and onward.

  • Salenstormwing

    I think Spoony's (and partly my own) problem with those games is the 'distance' of those differences.

    In Zelda, he's looking at a lot of things that have been done, been there done that. The game isn't getting out of the neighborhood of it's previous game. There's no real risk taking or even them going down to the gaming grocery store for some new and refreshing innovations.

    In XCOM, they got out of the neighborhood, and LANDED ON PLUTO! The there's getting away from the original franchise, and then going SO FAR AWAY from it that the neighborhood you wind up hanging out on Pluto looks nothing like anything even remotely close to anything from Planet Franchise Earth. Seriously, all those Alpha Centaurians keep turking ur Plutonian Jerbs!

    So Spoony (and myself) are looking for these franchises to do something new without tossing out every little thing till the only thing even remotely similiar the game has to the franchise is the name on the box.

    • Anonymous

      Can it possibly get as far away from the series roots as Highlander 2, though?

      Also, Spoony commented on the cartoony character designs, but did not mention that they would blend in perfectly well with the Team Fortress 2 character models. I think it’s too similar to be a coincidence, a closer similarity than the Bioshock one. Any thoughts on that?

      • Anonymous

        Well, Highlander 2 went to Zeist, but at least it still had Conner McCloud, even if he was now an immortal alien and not an immortal. And there’s sword fighting.

        XCOM on the other hand doesn’t have the same weapons, the same time period, the same ANYTHING as the original. It’s hard to say the ‘alien’ blob monsters are ‘aliens’. Why? Because there hasn’t even been one stinkin’ space ship shown, or any of the other classical X-Com aliens running. Oh, there’s that big shapeshifting super weapon, but all the stuff we’ve seen so far could be just as easily explained as supernatural and not alien in origin.

        As for the Art Style of the XCOM models, that’s just nit picking. It’s not quite the same as Bioshock, but a lot of the MECHANICS behind it with weapons and the researching via camera just scream “Oh Hai, Bioshock Game Engine!” Just because it looks different doesn’t mean it’s not the same engine as Bioshock 2, since these are the same folks who made said game.

        So, can XCOM be further away from it’s roots than Highlander 2? Yes, yes it can. And that’s the reason why there will never be world peace and Spoony can’t review any good video games… like the original X-Com: UFO Defense.

        • Anonymous

          That’s a good point, but I still don’t feel quite as big a sense of betrayal as most others because:

          -I’ve never played X-COM. Sad but true. I’m in the process of reading the Let’s Play threads for that game (on the SA archive), though, and they kick ass. Anyway, this is pretty much the same deal as Final Fantasy; I never played 4 or 6 when they were first released as 2 and 3 on the SNES, so Spoony’s reaction to the new games kind of bemuses me. Amazing what an eight-year difference in age will do, isn’t it?

          -This is, if I’m not mistaken, the first actual information we’ve gotten about the new X-COM. I think it’s a bit too early to tell, and I’m saving my full reaction for next year, assuming it shows up. Remember how indicative of the actual game the previews of Metal Gear Solid 2 were? How about Brutal Legend? Now, of course I’m not so naive as to think that the game will turn out to be exactly like X-COM of old and somehow not make the preview a lie. Just not quite so willing to jump the gun on this one, but I’ll be following this one in my spare time.

          As for the art, I guess it’s a minor point, but it’s still weird that I watched the trailer and thought, “The fuck? Why is the Scout dressed like a gubmint spook?” Granted, it’s only the facial structure that’s similar, and the flat, bright colors that are ubiquitous in TF2 are absent here, but it still kind of worries me that the X-COM developer whose name I forget might be cribbing notes from Valve.

  • Trixer

    That Deus Ex trailer was amazing! I had chills going through my spine! I'm kinda in between Joe and Spoony with this X-Com thing. I really like the old X-Com's and I'm kinda pissed that they went so batshit insane with the new X-Com. I agree, it would have been better if the new X-Com would've been a remake of the old ones. All I can do is hope that this new installment is going to kick ass, I haven't given up hope yet.

    • Anonymous

      More betting a safe direction if you ask me.

  • Anonymous

    I’m gonna have to side with Joe on this guys. Everything I’ve read in various interviews and articles about X-Com points to a lot of the old school elements still being present. Choice of research direction is still there, learning the aliens motives and plans is still there, varying mission types are still there (one article even hinted at the large scale terror missions returning) and a whole bunch of other stuff too. And I don’t mind the art style. It’s no more cartoony than, say, The Old Republic, and personally I’m tired of art styles that end up in uncanny valley.

  • http://twitter.com/CholYerlow2 Chol Yerlow

    I've never even heard of X-Com before so I wouldn't know if it was “betrayal” or not. Honestly Joe's description on the game makes me think it sounds cool.

    • Anonymous

      Where the hell have you just crawled from if you haven’t heard about X-Com?

  • http://bwmedia.wordpress.com/ ShadowWing Tronix

    It likes to give me heck, too. Mostly when I try to log in via Open ID. (How many things do I have to sign up for on the internet, anyway?)

  • http://bwmedia.wordpress.com/ ShadowWing Tronix

    So is this how the Dark Joe/Spoony-Wan fight gets started?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joel-Martinsson/100001017868380 Joel Martinsson

    Oh, another near future dystopian, totalitarian future with powerful corporations… It just feels so done :/ The game will probably be awesome nevertheless :P

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mattias-Granlund/100000618693819 Mattias Granlund

      well those are the key stones of a cyberpunk, you can´t have cyberpunk without them :3

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sebastian-Manthey/100001192656469 Sebastian Manthey

    the trailer feels a little bit like ghost in the shell :) I like it

  • http://www.vgboxart.com/author/alldreamsfalldown/ alldreamsfalldown

    Wow. Your “Betrayaaaaaaallll!!!” really echoed the hall.

  • http://www.vgboxart.com/author/alldreamsfalldown/ alldreamsfalldown

    I agree. Deus Ex 3 looks very GITS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ian.llewellyn Ian Llewellyn

    *Echo*BETRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYAAAAALLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!*echo*

  • SlyDeathsHead

    I never played a Deus Ex game, but I have to say that Deus Ex 3 looks awesome.

    Also, I agree with Spoony on X-Com. I only played one X-Com game in my life (X-Com: UFO Defense), but I thought it was an extremely impressive game. I agree that simply updating the old games would have been a way better move. This new one sounds like a Bioshock-wannabe.

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/jswadden Whisky Tango Foxtrot

    Re: X-Com with a better graphics engine:

    Spoony, have you ever taken a look at [url=http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/News]this[/url]?

  • Overflight

    Spoony, I totally agree with you on X-COM. And I haven't even PLAYED the previous games! When I saw that trailer I immediately thought “Wow, it looks like a Men In Black Bioshock mod set in the 50s” Maybe they could turn this into a decent game but I remain really skeptical for now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sami-Takala/753049917 Sami Takala

    Now that is one awesome bundle of information about Deus Ex – Human Revolution. =P

    I'm completely blown away by Spoony asking the kind of questions that any real gamer would ask in anticipation of a great game. It even answered some questions previously unanswered in the official DXHR forums where I dwell.

    Great job Spoony!

    And yes, I had exactly the same reaction to the filth that's allowed to be called xcom (they didn't even bother to put the – between x and com), that it seriously looks like they raped the entire series.
    I love the original X-Com so I have no hope for this one to be anything but a strange FPS with no ties to X-Com.

    /Sam The Swede

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Doug-Smith/1595632907 Doug Smith

    Damn, Spoony, you need to team up with Angry Joe more often. Great stuff here!

  • http://twitter.com/redviv Vivi Roth

    Yeah… My thoughts on X-Com exactly. Why that fecking name? Really, BioShock 2 with aliens does not. Make. X-Com.

    • Anonymous

      All this hate probably would have eased down if they called it a “spin-off”.

  • StHubi

    Awesome video! You should REALLY do more stuff together with Angry Joe. I cannot wait for your Spoony-Wan vs. Dark Joe episodes.

    But in any case I am more on the side of Spoony in several things. Angry Joe does a good job, but his taste of games is not very close to my own. To make it short: I preordered the Civilization V Digital Deluxe Edition…

  • PatMan33

    Hey… Mafia didn't suck… :(

  • kikyoo

    I'll say the research seems like a lengthy way to upgrade and unlock new weapons, giving the game a repetitive RPG grind in place of tactical research development. Picking missions is pointless if they are all the same mission, AKA blow the hell out of aliens. It worked in the first X-com game because you were doing it tactically with your team, here it's going to be another generic FPS with a lousy upgrade system, if they implement team based commands it will STILL be inferior to swat because of the nature of your enemy! Breaking into a room and holding it doesn't fucking mean jack shit with an enemy that will come out of fucking pipes! Slime enemies are GARBAGE to fight against. They aren't fun! because they have fucking simple AI and don't provide a tactical challenge, rather they are a cheap thrill. Without Humanoid enemies with like… fucking guns, your just running around clearing out fucking slime. It doesn't matter how many guns they give you, or how many times they invade your base, your still just shooting generic lame enemies. The fact that they are not really hyping ANYTHING important means that it is going to just be garbage. Making decisions on where you go? Upgrading weapons? These things have been done, and been done better. And really they expect fans of X-Com, a turn based strategy game, to get this?! NO! they are trying to pull in a new group of people, and I'm not sure they are going to do even that. But whatever. I'm so over this. NEXT!

    • Anonymous

      Apparently they still think this is 2007.

      Still, having each class have a different camera perspective (Point Man = FPV, Assistant = 3rdPV, Commander = Overworld View) seems like a really missed opportunity if they really so want to reboot this series’ main mechanics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dick-van-Wen/100001252658291 Dick van Wen

    nice a game about the bp oil spill becoming alive and killing people.

  • llimar263

    About Zelda, I like to think of the Zelda series (from the N64 on) as like the video game equivilant of ACDC i mean ACDC have been making basicly the same song for about 35 years now but they still rock because the songs are still good. I mean ya every zelda since ocarina of time has been very similar but they are still good games and each game still has certain elements to call their own weather it be memorable characters or a unique gameplay mechanic it's not like madden where they charge 60 bucks for an updated roster.

    p.s. you don't have to move your arms that much when playing the Wii i mean c'mon you barley have to go beyond just wiggling the thing in a certain direction (at least when i play anyway.)

    • Anonymous

      Here’s the deal: Nintendo has been making the same game over and over again. They seem unable or unwilling to change much. Nintendo is very much a company for the fans, they really don’t make much effort to pull new people in ever.

      • Anonymous

        correct me if i’m wrong, but isn’t that how a lot of people in this industry operate a lot of the time? I mean I dont really see franchises like Halo, Uncharted, Street Fighter, or Ratchet and Clank trying much to attract new people.

        Or Final Fantasy, Call of Duty, Devil May Cry, Silent Hill, and most Fighting game franchises (btw i’m not saying I dislike any of these franchises i’m just trying to prove a point thats all.)

  • http://twitter.com/roboxts mozes magyar

    it's deus, not day-use

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Clayton-Blanchard/1027514832 Clayton Blanchard

    Spoony you should have used your Insano powers! YOU FOOL!

    Also, I was not impressed by the vids you showed of XCom. But Deus Ex…that looks killer!

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/110112106525561021668 Grayson Edge

    I agree with Joe. Spoony is making a lot of assumptions about the new X-COM; just because a feature was not shown in an alpha demo doesn't mean it won't be in the final game. Those types of gameplay tidbits tend to be dribbled out a little at a time in previews leading up to the game's release to drum up interest and hype.

    X-COM's release date is TBA 2011. That's plenty of time to incorporate all of the things hinted at in the demo (Squad commands and/or co-op play, base customization, alien variety). As of now, I am satisfied with the elements that are returning (researching for new weapons, finding Elerium, nonlinear missions).

    For that latter reason alone the connection to FEAR is offbase. FEAR got its scares through scripted sequences as the player moved through linear levels. This new X-COM, like the old ones, features expansive maps you can explore as you see fit, with the option between gathering research or finding resources in constant balance with whether you can get out alive with your guys in one piece.

    Still, I do agree with Spoony that it would have been nice if some more features were shown in the demo or if there were some old alien cameos, just to put the fan's minds at ease.

    On a side note, the animation Spoony mentioned in Deus Ex 3 where Adam crashes through the skylight and takes out dudes with a claymore mine isn't canned; the player shot out the skylight, jumped down safely using an augmentation that removes fall damage while stunning nearby enemies, then used an augmentation that causes Adam's arms to release lethal pellets.

  • thegamingbrit

    Did you get to play metroid other m?

  • Dr_Peace

    Yeah I have to completely disagree with your take on Zelda, despite the fact that what was shown at E3 was a basic tech demo with nothing else shown but the controls, AI and combat direction, and the art style…

    It has JUST AS MUCH CHANGE as Shogun 2 AND Civilization V.

    The combat changed in Civ 5 (not to Advance Wars levels of depth however) and the combat changed drastically in Zelda too. It is you personally holding the sword, and you have to make precise attacks based on how the enemy is defending itself moment to moment. The combat and AI NEEDED to be updated and it certainly has.

    The weapons and puzzles they can also craft from the new controls show amazing potential, plenty was demonstrated too. You just know that there is going to be a puzzle where to have to activate a switch by bowling bombs through a low hole in a wall.

    The art style has completely changed, it may be cartoonish but Zelda has never had an impressionist style with a pastel palette. What other series has 3 back to back titles that have looked SO RADICALLY DIFFERENT. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY wanted them to continue with the organic, fidelity focused look of Twilight Princess, I REALLY wanted a developer to push the Wii to the limit (the FPS Conduit 2 is just not enough); yet I can admit that it is more of an aesthetic change than most series make in several instalments.

    We have NO IDEA what other new material the game will have to offer, but it WILL be there. The name 'Skyward Sword' as well as the (rather badly done) trailer suggests that there may be flying involved. Have we had proper flying worked into the core gameplay in a Zelda game before? NO.

    (I know Twilight Princess had a flying minigame, but it was a completely separate entity from the core gameplay and lasted 5 minutes)

    The Zelda games are hardly the same, they don't even follow the typical pattern of evolution = better visuals and maybe a new mechanic. Zelda games always have a unique quality that is brought upon by the atmosphere, artistry and unique mechanics each one contains (the 3D ones in particular), and that's before you go into the narrative and gameplay elements (dungeons, bosses, side quests etc.) themselves.

    Fans generally have a FIERCE interest in one particular Zelda game, simply because each of them is such a different experience. This isn't God of War (or many other games) you know.

    I myself am a Majora's Mask lover, and think it to be gaming art incarnate and completely unlike the rest (which all share mechanics of course, that is what makes Zelda… WELL ZELDA).

    I'm not going to call Spoony a hypocrite, I don't think he is, but we just have to face facts that some people just like what they like. Some people don't like Zelda because others like it SO MUCH. Some (mainly older guys who have fallen out of Nintendo) feel Nintendo have to do A LOT MORE to get the respect that a game which is doing EXACTLY THE SAME thing would get.

    Such is humanity.

    —–

    Also, Mafia was damn good, but the overworld was its weaker point.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

    I must say, I'm completely disappointed in your comments about X-COM. You're an intelligent reviewer and critic, but you've fallen into the trap of so many old-school gamers with visions of game-design have fallen into. You're taking a game from your childhood and considering it sacrosanct.

    This is a game series that few people remember, one that simply would not be fun for gamers of today. I say this as a fan of X-COM, who played it and enjoyed it even before I knew I was experiencing a bug that wouldn't let me play on-the-ground missions. I say this as a player who played a majority of the fan-made games that tried to bring back the vintage X-COM style, and found them profoundly unfun: not because of a lack of polish, but a lack of understanding of what made games fun.

    Christ, what was the death knell for the series? It wasn't the later, crappy games. It was the sequel, in which (shock and awe) was a general copy of the original. Fans of the original liked it, kinda… but everyone else? It was a copy, and they didn't buy it.

    Has modern gaming taught you NOTHING, Spoony? Bioshock. Take a dead franchise, identify what caused it to be a dead and forgotten franchise, burn it away, and replace it with what fans of today enjoy. The die-hard fans will be upset, but those people will either buy the game anyway (to see what its like and to have something to be upset about), or not matter because of the commercial and critical success the game will have.

    Fallout 3. A dead franchise, with the developers directly stating that they aren't going to do everything the way the first two games did it. Die-hards railed against it, but what happened? The game was, again, a commercial and critical success.

    Two game series that, had developers and publishers listened to the “They Changed It So It Sucks” crowd (which you've unfortunately decided to be a part of, it seems), would still be dead, listed ONLY on the “Best Games Ever” lists on the internet (which have as much value as my “Spoony for President” online petitions), but with a fan base so small and irrelevant that its as if the games never existed at all.

    I loved X-COM, and I was sad that a reviewer and critic I respect (and still do!) jumped on the “How Dare You Remake My Game” bandwagon. It's upsetting to me that you can't compartmentalize your thoughts on Old X-COM and New X-COM, and really have an open mind about it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Gillus Gilles Binot

    I think that this new Xcom game can be very good (maybe), but the only real problem is… this is not Xcom ! They just used the name, they could call it something else and make a REAL Xcom. Man, it may be my favorite game of all time.

  • Ceherz

    i can't stress enough how much i'm with spoony on XCOM. i was so fired up when i heard a new Xcom game will come out. When i saw the trailers on youtube i couldn't believe my eyes. at least the stuff shown in the trailer has NOTHING to do with XCOM. Just NOTHING. and for an ego-shooter type of game it doesnt look that good either.

    you shouldnt judge a book by its cover but man… this certainly looks disappointing for someone who loved the first two games of the franchise…

  • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

    I've played that, and most of the X-COM-With-Better-Graphics games.

    Protip: they bite. Hard. It's not because of their fan-based nature or lack of polish, its the fact that the mechanics of the original X-COM that they emulate do NOT age well.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

    Like Bioshock wasn't a “real” System Shock. How did that work out, critically and commercially?

    • Anonymous

      There is a small difference, Mr. Biberstein: Bioshock was _not_ called System Shock 3 but claimed to be “a spiritual successor to System Shock 2″, which means that some elements stay and others are gone for good. Oh, and since it’s not tied into the System Shock universe all of what has been done in those games can be ignored – setting and style wise.

      This new “XCOM” game however has severed all ties with its predecessors while still _keeping_ the name. That means it has to fit in with the old games. Heck, even if one common enemy were the common grey, the sectoid as it’s called in X-Com, we’d be considering it a possible link.
      But according to Jonathan Pelling (design director of XCOM) they want to avoid you meeting typical little grey men.
      (Information taken from: XCOM preview, german gaming magazine PC Action, issue: 06/2010)
      So, our sectoids, snakemen, chryssalids and etherials are replaced by the Blob, the monolith from 2001 and a stargat-lookalike? Sorry, that doesn’t work. Oh, and do you have any influence in fighting alien vessels? Hunting down UFOs? Nope? That was one central element of X-Com in my point of view. Tossed out like a used diaper, or so it feels to me.

      If they took some elements of X-Com, called this game something like “FBI: Alien Division”, and claimed it to be a “game influenced by X-Com”, I’d be very happy for this game – but this is no X-Com.

  • http://twitter.com/LordMookie Mookie Markova

    In this comment section: Opinions!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ObieWanCoyote Christopher Lash

    If they don't add in any of the features Spoony's looking for on XCom, they need to program one of the guys to come over to the players character and tell him, “You're in my way sir…”.

    • Anonymous

      Muahahahaha.

  • Booze Zombie

    Nah, I'm not looking forward to this.

    It looks like nothing new, with a vintage title slapped on for easy sales.

  • saint23thomas

    Go, Spoony, smite that blasphemous fool.

  • MadMohr

    Wait, wait. Olmec? He'll take you to different places, too? I wonder if he'll take you to the Shrine of the Silver Monkey, or if he'll just get stumped on the Steps of Knowledge.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/332SZDIQ7SI5OCMKU4QQV5T6TE Danny

    holy shit how did i not hear about this game it looks fantastic give me one day and i could make all of my friends think it was a movie just so there would be a better chance for me 2 get it at the shops the trailer grabbed me by the bell end, didnt let go and im not complaning im am getting this game without a sec to spare!

  • qwrtyp

    Someone didn't spoon with Spoony that night.

  • ieatsupermutants

    I am in total agreement with you Spoony. What the fuck? That is NOT even close to X com. This is just another example of the general butt fuckery that is happening to gaming in general. Nintendo's next console should be named the Nintendo Rehash. X com could have been called Strangers From Space and not X com. That would have been more fitting. It may be an alright game by any other name. Maybe. I dunno. Except for maybe Civ 5, and possibly New Vegas if the writing and dialogue are on par with the original two (not fucking likely), I am sickened by the rest.

    Now if they fuck up Deus Ex 3 that will tear my heart in two. I am waiting for someone out there to say “Hey, maybe we should make System Shock 3, but let's stick to the formula of the first two.” Haha. It'd more than likely turn out to be a shooty shooty head explodey type of game. That's what my fear about Deus Ex 3 is.

    Gaming itself is dying. Fast. Creative constipation. I know so many people wonder why they are nostalgic geeks like myself. Well already good games are never bad and that doesn't change with time.

    RIP X-Com. You will be missed.

  • http://onisworld.wordpress.com/ onisan

    The Deus Ex trailer dosen't look so good.

    The cool assasin Cyborgs are almost 1to1 copys from Ghost in the Schell.
    The entire Trailer looks like Ghost in the Shell with a spoon Blade runner.
    Without any hint of originalty.
    I like Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell.

    The Problem is when the desings have noch hint of originalty. Does't that hint that the game has also none?
    Of couse Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner a known for it's comlex storylines.
    So if the only pay homage then .. maybe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Manofmanycoats Robert Cousineau

    I was actually kind of optimistic about Xcom myself. Though nervous since Enforcer and Interceptor of the Xcom series sucked major monkey balls. But Xcom: Attack of the goo looked kind of good.

    I am with Spoony on the fact that taking pictures better not be the only way to research. The awesome thing about Xcom:EU was you had several things to research at any given time. The lack of base construction also makes me nervous.

    I am with Joe because there is plenty 2K does not want to say about the game. Which is actually kind of bad since they of all people should know that everyone wants to know what they are doing with their childhood. I believe Joe when he says the goo are creepy, and the various flying shapes of death do look frightening. But gimmick aliens a Xcom game does not make.

    What is so hard about making a good strategy game these days? CoDumbasses and Halosers may be in the majority but really nobody cares about them anymore. Stop trying to cater to them, damnit! People with good taste want to play games too!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Manofmanycoats Robert Cousineau

    Ima let you finish, but Fallout was Oblivion with guns.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Manofmanycoats Robert Cousineau

    Hick.

  • http://twitter.com/KuariThundercla Eric

    Never played Xcom myself, but I will say that unless a game is close to release, if they aren't willing to talk about new features beyond what they've shown, there's a good chance more will be added, its just a matter of what. Also… you're worried about cartoony and yet plan on playing SWTOR, Spoony? :p

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tristan-Elliston/1512467320 Tristan Elliston

    Cannot be XCOM!

    No Prime Grenade, Throw Rookie!

  • http://twitter.com/KuariThundercla Eric

    I haven't played Xcom, BUT, generally, if a developer isn't willing to talk about new stuff and the game is still far from release, there's a VERY good chance more is going to be added, its just a matter of what. Also, you're worried about cartoony and yet plan on playing SWTOR, Spoony? :p. In any case, good coverage so far.

  • Gauphastus

    Haha. You guys do well together, kind of like Reviews on the Run.
    Even though this stuff is late, I think you very much for bringing it to us.

  • http://twitter.com/getintheVandell Vandell

    I LOVE this guy! He's so honest and refreshing in all the interviews I've seen of him. He's not hiding from hard questions.. and he even provides solid answers for them!

  • http://twitter.com/TheMasterpieceP Casey Mason

    I agree completely Spoony, all these shooters are the same to me aswell. I want something innovative or with a good uniqe feature, like Crysis' suit etc

  • http://twitter.com/OlivawTweet Olivaw

    I'm pretty stoked about XCOM, mostly for it's aesthetic. I love the perfectly clean, perfectly pleasant stylized 50's look being fucked up and corrupted by these aliens. I liked how the aliens weren't just greys, or lobstermen, or stupid-ass lookin' creatures, but were these weirdass blob looking things that moved all weird. And I especially liked the weird Titan thing where it vaporized a dude.

    I just LOVE when aliens look genuinely alien and aren't bipedal dudes in robes with pointy ears or whatever.

    Plus I liked Bioshock and heard good things about Bioshock 2, so I'll probably like this game. Sure, it ain't classic XCOM or whatever, but I'm long past having a sense of entitlement about a game that is seventeen years old and whose sequels kinda sucked to begin with.

  • http://twitter.com/OlivawTweet Olivaw

    And it was AWESOME.

  • Logion

    You and Joe work really well together! I'm looking forward to more videos with you in the future.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FW2TMUQVBEYA4JQIW6RZ45ZI4U Francis

    To me, new X-com looks like it'd be way better if it wasn't called X-com.

  • Earthbound_X

    I have zero problems with the New Zelda not being hugely different, why fix what isn't broken?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kurt.aring Kurt Aring

    Deus Ex was easily the best-presented I've seen so far in this series of E3 footage. That trailer kicks all kinds of ass, though the dialogue of that big beefy guy with the Gatling gun arm (“I'll take you to Hell!”) kind of worries me, and we still need to see the gameplay. 2011 is looking like a good year so far with all these great games coming…can't wait!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Novak83 Ed Novak

    Man, you and Joe make a good team. And I'm TOTALLY with you on XCOM. Sure, yeah, MAYBE it'll turn out good. MAYBE. But it looks RETARDED and those responsible need to be KICKED IN THE NUTS. REPEATEDLY.

    Though I gotta say I was of the same opinion about Deus Ex 3, but you kinda changed my mind. Maybe I'm just an easily persuaded fanboy.

  • neonfox3

    lmao! joe pulled a kanye west at 23:50 hahahahahaha!! that was a great debate.

  • Paper_Banjokami

    So you bashed Zelda: Skyward Sword for being the same old Zelda, but X-Com would've been better if it was the same old X-Com? Pretty hypocritical Spoony.

    Other than that, nice coverage.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Treima Jimi Alexander

    ANOTHER protagonist whose voice sounds like Duke Nukem after a million Camels? Ugh…

  • http://www.facebook.com/kirkfnw Kirk Wagstaff

    fuckin deus ex 3 . all i gotta say

  • escalator

    I haven't played the previous X-Com games so I have no base(harhar) for comparison, but I'm gonna have to side with Joe here. It sounds pretty cool. “so I'll rename one Spoony and I'll make sure he dies every time I go out!” Hilarious

  • Mechaflash45

    I guess in Tomb Raider the glory goes to the fastest and the strongest. Watch out for those Temple Guardians!

  • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

    And a lot of people liked Oblivion With Guns a LOT more than both Fallout 1 and 2.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

    Gaming is dying? Do you have any proof of this? Because all the data I've read says that gaming is an increasingly profitable and successful industry. Perhaps you should rephrase your statement; the gaming you seem to want is dying of starvation, because there just enough people that agree with you and spend their money like you.

    While I can umderstand your viewpoint, I cannot see how you can intellectually believe it.

  • llimar263

    idk I think all the console Zelda games have elements in them that distinguish them from one another i mean think about it.

    Majora's Mask had the mask transformatins, and a time limit.

    Wind Waker had a unique visual style, faster combat, and sea exploration.

    Twilight princess had a darker tone, unique item usage (bomb arrows walking on walls with the iron boots ect,) and the whole wolf thing.

    hell even the plots are distinguishable enough that you can name unique story elements from each game.

  • CohagenLovesAir

    Like it or not Spoony, you've got to realize there is some hypocrisy in your stance on certain game series. And just because someone is disagreeing with something you said doesn't mean they're screaming lunatics.

  • Doomzorus

    I really like what I see from Deus Ex. Wasn't expecting much from Eidos, even if it's made in Montreal which is like 30 min from where I live.

    PS: In french Montreal is written “Montréal” and yes we do have a nice accent over here (French people, Ha!). :)

  • MissAshley

    I know what Spoony meant, but the series is in a delicate place where either too much innovation challenges its identity and too little spurs criticisms of blandness. As for myself, I like the ever-present sense of the familiar in Zelda (and other Nintendo) titles. Each iteration feels less like an individual game and more like a portion of an even larger game.

  • c1catwoman

    Deus Ex looks pretty good. I do agree with you about Zelda but I can't wait until I play that game, long time fan. Hey where's Spooning with Spoony lol!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Colm-Flynn/760474624 Colm Flynn

    Awesome stuff, more entertaining than something that informative should be.
    BEEE-TRAAAAY-AAAAAL!!!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Filipe-Isabelinho/100000173498272 Filipe Isabelinho

    I think Nintendo OWNED at E3. Definitely the best line-up.

  • http://twitter.com/Cubemario Peter Lucky

    Fun facts
    Zelda has had the same game play since the N64. The only things changed are style, location, dungeons, and items. Zelda games are always made well, but very little, or nothing has changed in the game play since OOT. I think it would be nice if they re-hauled the gameplay and gave us something that re-defined zelda.

    XCOM I know little about sadly. However I will say that defending a game on the stance of “they'll surely have more of these things we want to make it more like XCOM, but they just didn't show it to us at E3″ has nothing to do with Spoony's opinion. His opinion is based on what they showed at E3, not speculation on what you think the game will have. This is about the game and how it was presented at E3. I would not assume that XCOM is going to have the features you want in it – that's dangerous thinking and you'll likely be very disappointed if you find out your assumptions are false. It's very possible that what you see is what you get, it is with so many other games.

  • hydratie

    I'd say Spoony's concerns with X-COM are spot on.

    The good entries of the X-COM series are all complex strategy games. I understand such games are less likely to appeal to the public these days. However, the E3 trailer makes the game look like just another FPS. There is nothing new or innovative going on, from what I can tell they just took a FPS game with aliens and slammed the XCOM logo on. It looks like it will essentially go from a unique and interesting game to another FPS with Bioshock elements rehashed.

    I'm not trying to argue that a successful reimagining isn't possible, Fallout 3 is used as an example of how it's possible. But let's compare Fallout 3 to the other games. The setting is a post apocalyptic wasteland decades after a nuclear world war in all 3 games. The main character is a lone explorer who wanders the wasteland and can influence it/recruit help/etc in all 3 games. The gameplay and combat system differs in the third game, but overall it fits into the Fallout universe.

    Looking at X-COM, the setting in the original seems to be modern with technology being developed by collecting it from the aliens and researching it back at base, based on the size of your research team and complexity of the artifacts. The new game seems to be based in the 1950s? and has you taking pictures of things to develop technology. The characters of the original consisted of a gov't organization of combat teams and research teams (with no apparent main character) and distinctive alien species that used advanced, but believable technology. Not enough information yet to determine what the main characters will be like in the remake, but the enemies look like black blobs that possess people and use technology that seems unbelievable – it looks more like magic.

    The game has potential but it really has nothing to do with XCOM at this point and I'm skeptical. I really want to see more X-COM related stuff like research, team, and base managements. Right now it looks like it could be a DECENT game by itself, but as an X-COM fan it does nothing for me, and I could really live without another FPS. I'm going to agree with Spoony and call betrayal on this, but hopefully more information will change my opinion. I want to like this game, I really do.

  • unknowncast

    Apparently an absent genre can get away with it.

  • unknowncast

    Having different cameras perspectives based on role could have killed a lot of birds with one stone but apparently Marin 2K doesn't know how to make a game outside the FPPerspective.

    I'm still amazed that a DLCable game can such have an amazing poster.

  • unknowncast

    The Line is becoming rather cinematic in a sense like you're watching a '90s war/action flick so far.

    Though yeah, real-time FPShooting is getting tiring.

  • leospencer

    Angry Spoony Show and the Joe Experiment? But seriously, I agree about Zelda needing something new. For as much innovation that Nintendo shows in their hardware, they certainly don't show it in their core titles. Zelda and Mario have been the same games for ages now, and it's getting old and stale. And don't say “If it ain't broke, don't fix it,” because my car isn't broke, but I still have to maintain it. I still have to change the oil, I have to put gas in it, I have to service it. If I don't change my oil, my car fucking dies.
    Deus (Not deuce) Ex is Deus Ex. There is nothing else needed.
    XCOM is… when I heard it was an FPS, I got scared. When I saw gameplay, I raged like Spoony did. It's not that we're being hypocritical about wanting a different Zelda, but a same as the old XCOM. I grew up in the same gaming era as Spoony, and I understand his point of view. It isn't so much that I want an exact replica of the old game, I like to see a gaming franchise evolve. But XCOM has NOTHING to do with the original series. Get the fuck out with your 1950's crap! XCOM has nothing to do with the 50's, it all started in the late 90's. And seeing more and more of it, it looks like a texture swap of BioShock. There looks to be no strategy element. Hell, they could have at least done something like Star Wars Republic Commando so you can actually command a team.

  • unknowncast

    Quality is the reason to care for any kind of medium. He believes gaming will end in the way of the comics as all the thought-provoking, original games will be stuck in the shadows while the masses keep lapping up the same stuff over and over. Yes, it'll exist forever and forever but it'll be nothing more then a shell of it's former self.

    I'd disagree but that my interpretation of his viewpoint.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cbibs Chris Biberstein

      The problem with this statement is that “the masses” are the actual demographic. They aren’t The Masses, they are The Market.

      You want something that your demographic was simply unable to attract enough people to want, and you’re upset not at yourself, but at others.

  • unknowncast

    More like if Christopher Nolan directed a cyberpunk…actually, it seems more like what would happen if somebody took Nolan's comment about showing Blade Runner to his crew when they were making Batman Begins literally.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Laharl-Krichevskoy/100000817475468 Laharl Krichevskoy

    I totally agree with you about each Zelda being the same as OoT.

    Even though I thought Wind Waker was a step in the right direction, Twilight Princess was a 10 hour drive back to OoT town.

    And Deus Ex 3 looks incredible, But I did like Invisible War. It was a little dumbed down from 1, but the graphical and control improvements made up for it IMO.

  • QuetzaDrake

    Gooooing to have to agree with Joe on XCOM this time, sorry Spoony. You might be right on a lot of issues, but you seem WAY more biased about it all than usual, being such a huge XCOM fan. It's something completely different and that's what pisses you off about it, not necessarily anything about the game on its own (besides the “cartoony” style, which is a subjective preference for anyone).

    And it's not about you being angry, cause you were angry about Avatar, and I totally agreed with you and I totally got just as angry, but this time it's more about the nostalgia bias than the legitimate hate.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Neil-Shaw/1342441064 Neil Shaw

    If your going to do another Play Through; any chance of a Deus Ex one, that would be all kinds of awesome.

  • http://twitter.com/abcd05053768 Anonymous Coward

    >my car isn't broke, but I still have to maintain it. I still have to change the oil, I have to put gas in it, I have to service it. If I don't change my oil, my car fucking dies.
    And that's exactly what Nintendo does with their core franchises. They stick with what works in some areas(plot, core gameplay) and experiment in other areas(level design, new gameplay elements).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Ciccaroni/72002282 Andrew Ciccaroni

    Olmec is in Tomb Raider? But its not a trivia game!

  • http://bluehighwind.blogspot.com/ BlueHighwind

    Little Cindy Lou Who: “Why Santa Spoony? Why are you hating on Zelda? Why?”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Francisco-Javier-Diez-Diaz/1151204483 Francisco Javier Diez Diaz

    Put on your trenchcoat
    and fight some conspiracies
    Get experience
    and level up abilities
    Will you pick rifles
    or computers
    Don't pick swimming
    because it's fairly useless
    It's a shooter
    and a role-playing game
    The levels are ugly
    and everyone looks the same
    We aren't the same Ion Storm
    that made Daikatana
    Our games are good
    and we stay on schedule

    We made a sequel
    that no one liked
    cause we dumbed it down too much
    cause we're thick (8)

    hope they make deus ex 3 good after the disappointment that deus ex 2 was

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adam-Doran/100000584164074 Adam Doran

    i know i hate sequels to badass games like mass effect 2 was good but i dont like how they simplified things like i chose engineer in the first one becuase i liked hacking but now it isnt any fun cause i can use any of em but on a related note i actually went and bought deus ex game of the year version and its hard but man its worth it

  • CPBacon

    I think this XCOM would be alot better off if it just named itself Xenoshock. Its closer to System/Bioshock in every way than it is similar to XCOM. From gameplay to art style this is just Bioshock with aliens.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Elliot-Jenner/24413261 Elliot Jenner

    On the topic of Deus Ex, does anyone know how to get the game of the year edition from steam working on windows 7? I've been trying to play it, but it crashed before it even loads into the menu.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1536912113 Ian Kovich

    “The only things changed are style, location, dungeons, and items.”

    Like every sequel to every game ever?

  • Srjoben

    This seems like they are focusing a lot more on the augmentations. Which might be good. Oddly enough, despite the nano-augs being a major plot point, they were not really that important for gameplay in Deus Ex.

    It was totally possible to play the game without significant augmentions. Heck, since they had to be turned on and off, and often had high power requirements, some of them had a run time you would measure in seconds…nevermind if you had to run more than one at a time…I just found them inconvent, and they really didn't feel like they were part of you. Half the time they were just gizmos that they tried to pass off as 'bionic'. Good lord, they tried to make the damn flashlight sound fancy!

    Seriously, the implementation was terrible.

    Ok fine, they take power, but why doesn't my strength enhancement just kick in when i lift something heavy? Why do I have to turn it on? And if I do have to turn it on, but I'm not lifting anything, why is it draining power? Where is the energy going? MAKES NO SENSE!

    Who would spends gazillions of dollars inventing tech that does roughly what a flak vest does, but only for a minute or two and the soldier has to constantly hunt down energy cells like a junkie looking for his next fix? “Oh my implanted armor ran out of juice, hold on i have to…eat this battery” Seriously, what did you do with those batteries?

    That's actually one thing DX2 did kinda right, a lot more of the augs were constant effect “always on” enhancements.

  • http://www.google.com/profiles/110112106525561021668 Grayson Edge

    On the subject of Deus Ex 3, Screw Attack just put up some hand-came footage of the demo and it looks excellent. Any DX fans may want to check it out before it gets yanked due to NDA.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1536912113 Ian Kovich

    I already replied to an earlier post, but I need to put this out on its own:

    I get that some people can get tired of a game series; I know I'm tired of Halo and already tired of Gears of War. But I would never say that each game is 'exactly the same' (at most, just 'nearly the same', but that's just due to nitpicking things like recycled animations and visual assets). I do know that they throw curve balls in the gameplay and add new content each time, but I'm just tired of shooters.

    But to dismiss the Zelda series as 'exactly the same' is just… well, about as close-minded as you can get, since the reasons I'm reading in the comments section as well as what I heard from the video can be applied to every sequel in existence. So a new visual look, new locales, levels, and items don't constitute as 'new'? Not only does that eliminate practically every avenue a game could take to be different, but that means every series is in the same boat as Zelda (except for maybe Final Fantasy, but we all know how much Spoony loves the changes Square made to that series).

    I, for one, haven't gotten tired of Zelda games because, each time I boot the next one up, I may know the formula, but I don't know the procedure. When I enter a dungeon, I don't know where to go first. I don't know which room will have the item I'm looking for. I don't know what enemies there will be or what the bosses will be like. Even though Twilight Princess was the throwback to Ocarina of Time that fans wanted, the playthrough was anything but the same. That's not even getting into the overworld aspect. In short: I still enjoy the formula, and using it in different locations is reason enough to still play it, much like how people buy DLC campaigns for games like Fallout.

    Again, it's okay to be tired of a series, but there has to be a better reason than 'it's the same thing except that they changed everything,' from what I've read here. I can understand being tired of a genre or a series' formula, but how do you expect to be taken seriously when you say 'every game is exactly the same'? Only people who haven't played the games would actually say that with a straight face, which really gets you thinking.

  • batlashes

    Forget bionics, megacities and rocketships in just 17 years from now, where's my hoverboard and hologram Jaws? xD

  • http://www.gamespot.com/users/cornbredx CornBRED-X

    I am really liking you and Joe's coverage of E3. It's entertaining and giving me info on games I want to know all at the same time.

    About XCOM, I agree with both you and Joe actually, as far as what we have seen so far. I'm with Spoony that this isnt XCOM and really they could've named it anything and it would just be another game. That being said, I am with Joe in that I like the art style and the game itself intrigues me and I want to see what all comes from it. If nothing else, I will definitely at least rent it.

    Anyway, loving the E3 coverage. Your interview skills are getting better. Just need to remember to figure out what to do with your microphone arm before the interview =P
    I found that kind of amusing.

  • llimar263

    Am I the only one who finds it funny that the game that got the least attention in the video is the most debated in the comments?

  • frederick2

    Gotta agree with Joe on the subject of Xcom, Spoony. The problem with these demos is that they give just enough to hype up a game, but not enough to really tell you about a game. Case in point was the Star Trek MMO, which was really hyped up, but wound up being rubbish. Try not to dismiss or overhype a game until significant details are made public, because the results are often far different than what was anticipated.

  • Phrederic

    An Aztec warrior named Olmec? Seriously? Why not call him Maya, or Inca. I know this is the nitpickiest of nitpicks, but calling an Aztec Olmec, that's just terrible.

  • jetman123

    If you haven't played the original x-com games… go play them now. :D The entire collection is available for 10$ on Steam.

    But yes. I'm open to the series' new direction, honestly. Maybe they can do it really well – a ground level glimpse into things.

    I still want to see a modernized turn based tactical game that's like x-com.

  • jetman123

    Check out his twitter page to the right side. “There is a significant middle ground, you know. You can change and evolve a series, still staying true to its roots, without fucking it up.”

  • mainimi

    A new major console Zelda isn't announced every E3, the last console Zelda was Twilight Princess and that was announced back then at E3 2003, the only ones latter were Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, and those were small announcements because they were minor DS games. Metroid is almost the same, with even less games announced (last one announced was Prime 3, back in 2005). You're right about Mario though.

    Also, in Zelda, the enemies, items, story, characters, graphic style and dungeons change every time, sure they maintain the core gameplay mechanics, but refining the combat and other aspects. I still can't get tired of it like I do of killing the Nazis/terrorists/aliens with my one-man army in first person perspective for the 1000th time (most of these hardly have decent story or characters, or even try to do something different aside from a new set of the same weapons with different appearances). That genre peaked with half life.

    Of course you don't have to agree with my tastes (second paragraph), you don't have to like the same things (and that's part of the reason I watch your show) but the first paragraph was to correct your exageration.

  • coyoterys

    Sorry to say, but regarding XCOM Spoony sounds just like the whiny Fallout 1 & 2 fans when Fallout 3 was declared to be in first person perspective. And FO3 was a fine game on it's own merits.

  • http://twitter.com/Cubemario Peter Lucky

    No. Some sequels don't change in style, see: ratchet and clank, crash bandicoot, halo, and so on. Location doesn't always change either half-life 2 and episode one both take place in city 17 for almost the entire time. Half-Life 1 and it's expansions all took place in black mesa. Final Fantasy X-2 took place in Spira, Bioshock 2 is in rapture, many of the zelda games (but not all) took place in Hyrule multiple times. Not every game has dungeons. However it is true that virtually every game sequel will have new items, depending on what you count as items.

    I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make.

  • http://twitter.com/kshade_hyaena Khalan Shade

    Spoony /liked/ Fear? The generic shooter with no atmosphere, repetitive gameplay, the little girl from every third fucking horror movie and not even jump scares? That wasn't survival or horror. The creepiest thing I saw in that game was when one of the wall-mounted lamps (you know, like the ones you find in ERs) moved on its own, as if it was looking at me. I was really, really disappointed when I realized that it was just a glitch in the physics engine that made it move…

    About X-Com: I think you're right about the art style, that doesn't look like it will work. It's so… simish and clean. I haven't played any of the X-Com games at all (shame) but I keep my eyes on this one since it sounds like it could also be called MiB/X Files: The Game.

  • sniktbub

    I'm with Spoony on the X-Com thing. When I first saw the trailer for it, I thought it was fucking Fallout. It looks so goddamn generic, and I don't see why GOOD older franchises need to be turned into shooters. Fuck that.

  • owlbi

    XCom looks pretty shitty. It looks like they're removing the random factor of the good XCom games to totally control the pace and story arc of the game. One of the best things about XCom was the unpredictability of it, even past your first play through you would still have that 'alien waiting around the corner' feel because all the missions/loot/aliens were semi-randomly generated. This new game just looks like a survival horror shooter on rails; Bioshock with stupid blob enemies. I'm willing to bet there will be an un-killable main character as well, which is also completely un-XCom. I've played XCom games where I save-whored from start to finish to max my dudes out, games where most of my squad has been a turnstile of rookies running with primed grenades, and games where I played as well as I could but accepted whatever bad luck happened; they were all awesome, the option to do all of them was awesome, and it just feels like it will be sadly lacking in this new game.

  • http://www.facebook.com/justinhoganbama Justin Hogan

    I love the contrast between Spoony and Joe. Spoony is the jaded, cynical gamer who will look at something and say “So what?” Joe is a little more casual, a little more willing to accept a game just because it looks cool. I'm more Spoony than Joe but I'm glad there is a voice for both ends of the spectrum.

    I'm right there with Spoony in my dislike for the new X-Com game. It's mostly because of the name. Yes, it seems trivial, but when you put the X-Com label on a game, it creates expectations. A sequel can change the gameplay or tweak the setting. Changing both entirely though? Right out. A great example of the right way to do things would be the Might and Magic games. The M&M RPGs came first, followed by the Heroes of Might and Magic strategy series. They all shared the same setting though. Heroes of Might and Magic 2 was about the Succession Wars, which merited a strategic game. Might and Magic VI was about the quest to right the realm in the aftermath. Good RPG setting. They came together in a perfect overlap of complimentary games.

    I wasn't a huge fan of HoMM V but it featured the same style of gameplay and general sense of atmosphere, so I wasn't that bothered with the use of the franchise tag. This X-Com game doesn't feature the same setting as X-Com (50's? WTF?) and doesn't feature the same gameplay. So why would you even try to entice X-Com fans to the party? Sure, it has aliens and research but those things aren't exclusive to the X-Com franchise (Master of Orion had those!). The company could have given X-Com to someone who gave a damn about the series and called their game something else.

    It seems trivial but if you don't want people to bring expectations to the party that won't be fulfilled, don't use that franchise tag so lightly. Few gaming companies purchase an intellectual property because they really like it. They buy it because it gives them an established name to cash in on. Why take a risk by creating an original IP when you can just buy an established one? They are within their rights, I'm a capitalist and I can see the appeal. Doesn't mean I have to like it though. I hate the practice, just as I hate Hollywood's sequel-itis. It's easy, it's cheap, it's fast and it's lazy.

  • FacestabMan

    As much as people complain about Zelda games being like Ocarina of Time, what do they actually want? I mean, it has been announced for some time already that the main aspect of this next Zelda game was going to be the ability to “waggle” your sword in realistic ways, with some limitations, of course (spin attacks would be really difficult or tiresome to perform), and maybe a new story, like it always has been since OOT. Sure, there has been the repetitive aspect of finding dungeons, getting items inside them and using them outside for progress/sidequests but story wise it has been different. As much as it looks like a change, Majora's Mask wasn't really too much of a change either. It played with time and fan theories, as the next game will play with the ability to do things yourself rather than just pressing a button or shaking the wiimote a little bit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Novak83 Ed Novak

    Yahtzee's a poet, man.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adam-Doran/100000584164074 Adam Doran

    oh man angry joe vs spooney talkin about xcom is too fun

  • anonns

    Some people have balls, some people don't.

    Noah wanted a game that was a STEP UP NOT A STEP SIDEWAYS. He makes sense.

    Whether he is correct, or not, is for US to decide.

  • Strelnikov

    Looking at the Deus Ex 3 trailer I was half expecting to see a Sean Young-like woman walk into frame and start talking about taking the Voight-Kompff test….it's a little Ghost in the Shell, a smidge of Blade Runner, a speck of the Matrix, the 'gun hand” from Tetsuo: Iron man II, and the myth of Icarus. I'm not trying to mock; this is probably a cool game, but I see where all the bits and pieces came from.

  • http://dragonacesg7.livejournal.com/profile Dragons_Dusk

    anyone else get a dark Ghost in the Shell feel from the trailer? (and yeah I know GinS isn't all puppies and sunshine)

  • Disthron

    One thing I remember about the first game was how everyone was going on about how non-linear it was. But then when I went to play it it was extremely linear. I mean, sure, you could come at the mission in a bunch of different ways but nothing you did had any impact on how the story unfolded.

    I was pissed off and had to put the game down for a year or 2 before I went back and played it again. I liked it the second time around. I didn't think it was as good as people made it out to be though. There was a confusion on what non-linear was. You could achieve your goes in a number of different ways but when what you do seems to have no impact on what is going on it all seems very hollow. Also, if I hadn't been sold on it being an open game I would have liked it a lot more because I would have been expecting the story to be closed.

    So yea, I'm not holding my breath on this one. They say it's going to have a lot of choices but something tells me they will not have a lot of meaning to the game.

    I played the first X-Com game back in the day and I have to say I think it would be cool to have an FPS style X-Com game. Though I'd have thought it would be more like a SWAT game with base building.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Elliot-Jenner/24413261 Elliot Jenner

    Especially since Olmec is an Incan name, not an Aztec one.

  • goodguya

    The thing is is that Spoony is an old school gamer. He went through the days of complete revamping, innovation, and 3d on consoles. I feel he's more akin to the technology and style of a game rather than the gameplay of it. Once it had gone into 3d, it did reach a peak formula, so why change it? I understand old-school gamers that think Zelda has stagnated. I don't agree with them, but they're always looking for the next big thing instead of something dwelling in their relative past.

    I don't know, just my feelings. You'd have to get a response from Spoony for the actual story.

  • brus

    Awesome coverage!

    Haha, loved when you freaked out about the new XCOM and the trailer started with “May contain content inappropriate for children”. Oh, and too bad, by the way.

  • Annorak

    I love the guy that glances over his shoulder at Spoony shouting “BETRAYAL”, but completely unable to see him due to the fact he's obscured by the sign.

  • http://www.facebook.com/f2bnp Nick Polkas

    Fucking quote for truth.
    Noah you're the man. I've been ranting about this shit “XCOM” for days now.
    All these fucking years I've wanted a true successor to the X-COM series, UFO came close but fucked it up with Afterlight. I did like UFO Extraterrestrials though.
    In the end, what made the X-COM series amazing was their simple and addictive gameplay. I mean I've tried to beat the original tons of times and managed to do it only a few, but each time I try I do it with the same excitement.
    Thank you 2Kgames for fucking X-Com.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Peter-Davidson/1226257656 Peter Davidson

    XCOM… I still cant fucking believe its an fps. I thought 2K was great because they made BioShock and Borderlands, two of my favourite games, but FUCKING XCOM? Spoony, scream betrayal in their faces because they have completely buttfucked the franchise, and I feel sad for having witnessed it. No Sectoids, Floaters or Chrysalids, Ethereals or Cyberdiscs… just bullshit bp oil.
    Take your original x-com disc and shove it up their arses. That way they might shit out a better idea. *Goes and installs UFO Enemy Unknown through DOSBox*

  • SubTonic

    Ah, then you were misled. The great thing about Deus Ex was its story and its choices, which, back then, were extremely innovative and a lot of fun (and I believe they still are). It has aged considerably, but there's just something about it that makes me come back to it all the time. I'm currently on what must be my 30th or so playthrough and I'm still not tired of it, despite knowing every single bit if dialogue and scenery by heart.

    If what Eidos Montreal says is true, Human Revolution will NOT be an open-ended, sandbox-type game. It will just FEEL like one, which is what the original game achieved. You have a ton of choices in character development and how you complete any given task, but the story is still linear and progresses pretty much the same regardless. The only things affected by your actions are some dialogue and maybe alliances, but nothing major. Like I said, the real treats to take from Deus Ex are the plot and the ability to choose how you complete a mission. You don't get to choose the missions themselves or anything.

  • Anonymous

    God this REALLY reminds me of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Looks like it’s gonna be awesome!

  • sassamura

    I'm sorry but Deus Ex 3 looks lame and not very creativy. And also Deus Ex 1 sucks. But the new Zelda looks great, could we expect an old school style Zelda? It would be great.

  • Srjoben

    I'm not sure what games you were playing that gave you that concept of non-linearity. Do any games, at least ones with plots and stories, even allow that much change now?

    In the small scale, moment to moment and hour to hour Deus Ex is still more open than most modern action games, including the good ones. Compare to say, the Halflife or Halo series. Most of them don't give you any choices AT ALL.

  • Joon_Studios

    Spoony, I agree, Nintendo is too franchisy and I think their franchises are getting old. But I think that me and you need to at least give this new Zelda game a chancce. One, I appreciate Miyamoto's work. Two, Miyamoto even went on to say this game will be a turning point in Zelda. So I think we all need to give it a try. That and I already pre-ordered it.

  • sprode

    Don't worry Spoony… I hate motion control as much as you. And companies copying it. And 3D. It makes me feel old.

    I've also thought that games like Zelda are the exact same thing every time. Except they tweak one little thing, like repeating days or graphics or wolf form that gives it the illusion of freshness. And yet Zelda is still my favorite franchise, Zelda is still the game I'm most anticipating. I don't get it.

    I think I said before that the game industry is getting into the business of slapping a new tag on old titles… a Hollywood tendency of a lack of innovation and a desperate desire to make quick bucks on the cheap as things become a greater shade of corporate sterile. Gaming has reached a mass market, so they can get away with it.

  • Ruiner

    Spoony you are certainly a good guy, and while I respect your convictions mainly your ability to refuse to be a pushover it still needs to be said you are extremely cynical. I'm not complaining about your quirks since it is part of the reason your reviews are so damn funny, but it still makes it a bit hard not to get frustrated when you begin getting very subjective without even giving the product/game a full test drive. While I release you don't talk about the Kinect is this video I think it is the perfect example of something you need to learn to be objective with your dissection. You claimed from what you saw “it didn't work” but unless you actually tried it how can you say it was at the fault of the hardware, and not the person actually using it? Remember we haven't even seen a small portion of the full amount of it's capabilities. For example, the Kinect is capable of accurate head tracking allowing it to provide a single user with a 3D perspective without the goofy glasses or a new TV. The same could be said about your views on the new Zelda game, and New Vegas.The difference between the two is that I see where you are coming from with New Vegas even if I do not agree. I'll admit I am far from sold with what we have seen so far for Skyward Sword, but I refuse to write it off before I even get a chance to experience it first hand.

    Anyways I couldn't help but giggle over how excited you seemed to be over Deus Ex Human Revolution. I would have acted like a kid on Christmas myself if I was there too! I can't wait for that game!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Manofmanycoats Robert Cousineau

    I really like how nobody seems to know about Xcom Enforcer or Interceptor like they never existed. Even PCGamer didn't mention it and seem to think XCOM is the first shooter in the series. Its been done before, and as you might think, they sucked. Badly.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Laharl-Krichevskoy/100000817475468 Laharl Krichevskoy

    Jeez Spoony, What were you thinking?

    Insulting Zelda on the internet? You know who defensive those freaks get when you criticize their precious mute fruitball elf and his pretty green dress!

  • http://twitter.com/Cubemario Peter Lucky

    What I've been essentially saying is that save for Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask, Zelda titles have always been the same formula. Most Zelda titles just feel like a repackage of the same game we got years ago. Which is fine if you're into that sort of thing, I was never saying “your zelda sucks and you suck for liking it, kid”. I'll agree many other games are just as guilty, which is why I don't play a lot of them. I think it's ok to keep the same game formula if it's able to last for a sequel or two. Some games I feel can accomplish that for a length of time, like half-life 2. However frankly after episode 3 (if it ever comes out) I'm going to be really bored and I want them to re-invent it again. The problem I have with Zelda personally is that it's formula can't last for the sheer amount of sequels it's had. Eventually the well runs dry and for me, Zelda ran dry years ago.

  • undeadaRTie

    With you and Joe arguing about X-Com, I must say I'd side with… both.
    You really have a point there. From what we've seen, it's not X-Com, it'll never be X-Com and it will upset most gamers that remember the old ones… Instantly jading a potential fan base that could've been added to the one that the game attempts to build.

    Cause. Joe is right as well. The game can still be pretty interesting. I mean, forget it's about X-Com and the bits we've seen were actually very engaging and atmospheric. The biggest mistake made was to label the games according to a franchise oldschool gamers love. Give it a different name and the developers could not only loose a lot of pressure, but gain a lot of freedom story wise. Hell, you could even call it “Attack of the Killer Blobs from Space” to give it that tacky feeling of old horror movies and give the atmosphere a humorous twist similar to the one of Stubs the Zombie (we seriously need more games like that).

    It's just… so much SAFER to label it X-Com… which is sad, because as stand alone, the game would have the potential please a lot more gamers and do lot more things in a unique way.

  • NostalgiaOCD

    That's exactly how I feel about Zelda lately. It looks the exact same as every other Zelda title. At least Twilight Princess had a different atmosphere, this one just looks likes an OoT wannabe. The only defining feature is the fact that the motion controls work the way they were SUPPOSED TO.

    I bought Deus Ex 1 and 2 off Steam after 3 was announced. I'll say it nicely; I really don't understand the hype (greatest PC game??? That makes me cringe). The only reason the game is hard is because it doesn't work. I tried twice to play it stealthily but it's just messed up. Aiming accurately takes AGES and when I shot a guy directly in the face with that silenced crossbow (while I was hidden), he spazzed out and started shooting at me. Not only did the damn thing do absolutely nothing to him, but I guess he knew I was there the whole time??? I don't want to try going in guns blazing because for one, that's not how I like to play but mostly it's because I don't see how it'd even work. As I said, aiming accurately takes a ridiculously long time of crouching in one place. I'm trying to like it, but it's just illogical how some of these things work. Maybe my logic just differs. I'm prepared for flames, but I've played the game multiple times and really TRIED to like it, I think I'm entitled to my opinion.

    Nonetheless I'm still excited for Deus Ex 3.

    Also, thanks for the maddened debate on X-Com. I'm actually going to go check both out now.

  • notyoursavior78

    First they make Fallout a 1st person shooter and now they make X-com a 1st person shooter? FPS' haven't really interested me since the original Playstation when I did find Medal of Honor a lot of fun, but they just get so old after awhile. I used to play a lot of Doom and Quake too back in the day that I'm just sick of FPS' now and really have no interest in spending any time with them. It's even worse that they are just slapping old franchise names on them and having them being so different from what gamers in the 90's remembered (well I was gaming in the 80's too ha) them to be.

    Anyways the video was still entertaining it's funny how yours and Joe's opinions completely flipped when you came outta the demo for X-com.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/4SFYB7V54BZ2XF6NROMEIGYIZY Jethro

    Speaking as one who played the original Deus Ex during it's heyday, and still pops it into the PC to play every now and then, and love the game, yes, the aiming is… lacking. It's the RPG element at work, unless you devote a number of skill points to your weapon stats, your accuracy is going to suck ass, and it takes forever and a day to get a good enough aim to pop a bullet it some nub's noogin.

    The problem is, if you're trying to go for a non-weapon based character, you'll either need to suffer through this, or sacrifice skill points that would otherwise have gone to your hacking/lockpicking/swimming/whatever. It wouldn't be so bad if at untrained, it was even twice the speed to get at its most accurate. Even as a pre-teen, I could honestly say that I was more accurate shooting a gun than JC with untrained weapon stats was, and for a videogame character who was supposed to be some bad-ass super agent, this was not good.

    After that downer, I will tell you to soldier on, the game is slow going at first, but later on, it really does pick up and maybe then you'll see just why this game was a serious contender for the Game of the Decade. If not, well, no game is for everybody.

    Peace Out!

  • Srjoben

    It took me a while to get into Deus Ex. I had heard it was good, and I fiddled about with the demo several times over the course of months, but it just didn't grab me. But then they released an expanded demo, once past liberty island with a few skill points invested in J.C and gameplay style opening, up in the Hell's Kitchen section I was totally hooked. Best game ever? I donno, that's a hell of a title to casually slap on anything. But there are reasons it's on a lot of people's short list.

    I really don't know what your complaint is with the stealth though, the mechanics have a bit of a learning curve, but they're actually more forgiving than a lot of games. When you get the hang of it you can trot around behind people and have them none the wiser.

    The crossbow DOES make sense, that thing is tiny. Realistically it probably has less killing power than a .22 pistol, and those are notoriously unreliable even with headshots. It's basically a tranq dart delivery system, not an assassination weapon. Though kills with it do become possible if JC has a very high Pistols skill rating.

  • sifer2

    I am definitely with Spoony on this one. It's like they considered X-Com nothing more than a brand name to exploit. And are not really trying to remake or make a sequel to it at all. Why not make your own ****ing new IP if your going to do that? Oh yeah that's right cause you think if its got the X-Com name maybe it will get a free pass an more hype than a new IP would. It's a dirty marketing tactic an i'll probably steer clear of buying that game unless they really do end up revealing more stuff about it that makes it seem more a proper X-Com game. But like Spoony i'm not holding my breath.

    It's kind of funny we have such a stark contrast here between two PC classics getting sequels. X-Com kind of got screwed. But Deux Ex on the other hand its new game looks to really have potential. I do hope that it isn't all dumbed down for modern casual audiences though. That being able to just walk up to some guy an press a button to do a scripted kill kind of sounds like that an it worries me. All flash an no depth. But hopefully god willing these guys will do the Deus Ex series some justice.

  • theintangiblefancy

    So, Spoony rants about how Fallout New Vegas and Zelda are more of the same game repackaged, but gets mad when X-Com is changed TOO much? And I don't know, Deus Ex seems like it's just using the original game's plot for the third time, while trying to copy what made the first one great. Obviously I can't really tell until the game is released, but I'm still pretty darn skeptical…I thought the trailer looked awful.

    I love Spoony, and I'm enjoying his E3 videos. Just thought it was interesting.

  • theintangiblefancy

    I think that one issue is, back when Deus Ex was new, you didn't really know what you were going get in an FPS. So it was easier to forgive certain things and be willing to learn the nuances of the game. Nowadays every FPS plays like Half Life 2.

    So, the combat is dated, and the AI is admittedly just awful, but it is an intensely rewarding game.

  • sifer2

    Well if you have a long successful series like say Zelda that has over 10 installments then sure. What the hell go crazy an make a new twist on it. X-Com though really only had 2 good games. An some spin offs. Most of which were not good enough for people to even bother trying to get to run well on modern systems.

    So yeah most fans of X-Com are really hungry for more of the same at this point considering how long its been. Not for a game that seems to only have the name an is otherwise another bland looking FPS.

  • theintangiblefancy

    Ok, I can dig it. I confess to not knowing much of anything about X-Com, since I've never played anything from the series. Just thought Spoony was being overly negative about a lot of things.

    But I guess that's part of why I visit this website in the first place.

  • http://twitter.com/dividebyxero John Wilkes

    hahahahah I love this. Spoony and Joe are both un-scripted but have great chemistry together. it's funny and entertaining to see them argue about a game. These dudes should totally do cross overs more often!

  • 24x7spaz

    I'm pretty sure they should of just called it something different than X-com, cause it looks decent. However when you try and think of it as Xcom it just loses something. As for Zelda I've been excited for every console Zelda except this one.

    Deus Ex 3 will hopefully be as good as it looks, though i didn't have a problem with the 2nd one so i think i'll like it regardless

    PS- I love how it actually seemed like Joe was gonna punch Spoony in the face during the last 2 min lol.

  • draxo

    I'm with you on X-Com so very very much Spoony…

    I'm so very angry. We've been waiting for decades.. and now this.

    Its not X-Com. They saw 'hey, Fallout was 50's like! That was popular! Fallout was popular as an FPS! lets cut and paste! We'll call it X-Com'

    Sorry to say… Angry Joe really just feels like he's betraying us here. He seems to drool on anything that lets you shoot a gun first person.

    Go Spoony.

  • Disthron

    Yea, although to be fair, it was not the company that misled me but it's fans. I don't have anything against linear stories in games it's just I really prefer non-linear stories. I prefer to know that what I'm doing has some kind of impact. So when the fans I was talking to sold me on how non-linear it was I was very disappointed. It's also why I try to stay away from hype about games these days. I know I would have liked Deus Ex much better if I hadn't been expecting something that it was not.

    Also, the fans I was talking to were right, in a way. It was open ended in a way, just not in a way that mattered much to me. That's where the confusion was. If they make it like the first one I will like it but it wouldn't feel open ended to me, Whenever a game gives you a perceived choice, one where the game appears to give you options but really there are nun, I always seem to wont to take the one that is not the “correct” answer. It's a point of contention between my friend and I. I think it's because a lot of the anthers seem to wont the story to go “darker and edgeor” and I don't. I was playing Allen Wake recently and when he's being chased by the cops you can't go and surrender to them, but I wasn't hugely disappointed by that because I wasn't expecting that I'd be able to.

    So, it's not that it's a bad game or anything it's just that my expectations spoiled my initial experience of it. I had to leave it for a year or so to be able to really appreciate it for what it actually was.

  • Disthron

    Well, mostly western PC RPGs. But there were quite a few non-linear games back then. There was the Ultima games, Pandora Directive, Wing Commander 3 to a certain extent. I remember in Quest for Glory there were 3 main quests and you didn't have to complete all of them to finish the game. They all had there limitations and nun of them were completely open ended but they did have actual choices in them. At the time I appreciated the limited impact I had on the story and from that the fans of Deus Ex were telling me I thought there would be a lot more in that game.

    These days, there is stuff like Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Fallout 3. Again, they all have there limitations, but that's because the game programmers can't put everything in the game.

    Like I said in my opening post, I'm not denying the game was open in the way you accomplished the mission goals but if it comes to a choice between having open levels and an open story I'd choose story every time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/matsrt Mats Rune Torgersen

    hows this: the game has nothing to do with XCom, but looks cool ANYWAYS.
    It actually looks like a sequel to Cinemaware´s old classic “It Came From the Desert”… which is cool.

  • Drach

    heh.. I went and downloaded Deus Ex 2…

  • Goooons

    The mother of all E3 videos, especially the last part about X-COM.

  • http://twitter.com/Ads888 Adam Waine

    Can't wait for this to come out looks amazing!
    Never played the 1st game sadly!
    Played the 2nd one though thought it was rubbish and nothing much to it and got rid of it a week later! But this seriously looks amazing!
    My jaw dropped when I saw the trailer!
    So excited!

  • http://twitter.com/Eniacc Eniac

    I just hope one of the lines of your team mates in X-com is:

    “YOU'RE IN MY SPOT, SIR”

    Spoony would go INSANO on that game xD

  • allessander

    I so agree with you on this one. My main complaint however is this: why the hell call the game X-Com? It wasn't really all that popular a franchise in the first place! It was more popular with us gamers back then, in the 90s, but now, I bet you that if you ask any next-gen gamer that usually drool at games like Modern Warfare 2 and such if they ever heard about X-Com, chances are 95% are going to say 'No'… It doesn't make any sense. And to make the game a blatant Bioshock/insert your banal next gen fps here game and then telling us that “We bet that this was how the original producers wanted to make the game anyway, but didn't have the technology', is just an outright insult…
    The fuck did they want to rape such a classic and beloved franchise like this is beyond me…

  • NostalgiaOCD

    Oh man, when I got the email that someone replied to this particular comment, I was scared, though prepared for hate and lots of it. Guess I've been on the GT forums for too long. Thank you for the well thought out response and I'll take your advice and continue trying. There obviously must be a reason why everyone loves this game so much.

  • NostalgiaOCD

    Well I guess I should've mentioned that I was trying to use it as a tranq gun, and that's why I was complaining about it. I assumed that a headshot with a tranquilizer dart would automatically knock them out, but maybe I've just been playing too much MGS. Or hell, maybe it does work but I just forgot to switch which ammo it uses. I was pretty unfamiliar with everything at the time so I wouldn't doubt it.

    Nonetheless, I'd like to thank you as well for a non-flaming response and I will try again. In fact, I think I'll play it right now.

  • StealthKnight

    59: I disagree, The art style is different an has a more colorful look to it like WindWaker. It didn't fell different when playing Majoria's mask or WindWaker? You don't have to flail your arms in any Wii game. You can flick your wrist at a comfortable pace when fighting. If your flailing then your not doing it right.
    21:50- Not everybody will get Angry Joe's humor and they probably thought he was going to rag on them and slam the previous work that they worked hard on. Mafia 1 was not a bad game.
    26:46- Joe, it maybe a good game by it's self but it might not be faithful to X-com. Rainbow 6 had teammates with back-story and individual characteristics yet you could take control of them in co-op.

    I hope that deux ex 3 will be good like they believe it is. I'm kind of disappointed that it's more action based as I liked the puzzle solving and exploration in the original. The giant ogre looks to fantasy like and the lasers don't fit the game to me.

  • Joon_Studios

    I agree with you. I made a comment not as detailed though but like this. I want to become a FAIR reviewer that doen't judge off of experiences but on the lines of what THIS SOLE game has to offer.

  • Joon_Studios

    I'm not a fanboy protector of franchises but I think we have to ignore the fact that it is a franchise and TRY it. Who knows, you might love it. Me and SPoony are 90% alike. I think I disagree with him on his judgement of games and Avatar.

    Also, to the guy who reccomended D&D $th edition on Spoony's VLog 6-1-10 video, I did pick up the player's handbook for it. I found it has the most players right now. I'm currently reading it and I'm thinking to myself I should have gotten the Dungeon Master's Guide. I don't know but I can't wait to start playing. Unfortunately I'm in this urban area where a fun game is a rehashed overpriced same-old lame First personn shooter. To hell with FPSes I want to play D&D with someone. Anyone? No. So thank you whoever reccomended it to me.

    Spoony again, play a game before you make a judgement.

  • Joon_Studios

    I agree with what you have to say. I think people need to shut up and realize the Wii is not good for realism and that just because it's cartoony doesn't make it not worth it. Personally I'm the person who prefer colorful, rich, beautiful enviornments, instead of dull grey realistic worlds.

  • Joon_Studios

    About XCOM, once again Spoony you need to play the full game BUT from what I've heard you saying in a way I agree Spoony. Everything they showed of XCOM was shooting. It looked pretty Bioshocky and if what Spoony says is true it really has NOTHING to do with XCOM. Oh well. I might play it since I never played Bioshock.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Remy-Rizzo/518408925 Remy Rizzo

    Joe-”Imma Let you finish [but beyonce had the best video of all time]“

  • theintangiblefancy

    Yeah, exactly. Even with how far technology has come over the years, and how good graphics can be, games that strive for realism will ultimately fail. While Wind Waker, a game that tried to be cartoon-like, succeeded. This is especially true since “realism” ultimately equates to “brown and more brown, add some grey and bloom lighting” in developers' minds. I think Skyward Sword is a good compromise between the graphics Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. It almost looks like an interactive painting or something.

  • http://www.facebook.com/koztah Koztah V.

    Frankly XCOM looks like total bullshit. Though I have no issue with 2K calling it an X-COM game (if X-COM Enforcer can be called an X-COM game, so can this crap), I do have issue with them calling it just plain “XCOM”. Why? Because it's a fucking lie. What does everyone call X-COM? The original – UFO Defense/Enemy Unknown depending on region. And XCOM has nothing to do with that X-COM beyond the theme of alien invasion. Nothing. Zilch. Diddly squat. Fuck all. Sweet Fanny Adams. Jack and shit, and Jack left town.

    This is exactly like Infogrames' cockbag soulshitting move to rip off gamers using the goodwill generated by UFO Defense/Terror From The Deep and to a lesser extent Apocalypse (Apocalypse at least made an effort while Terror from the Deep made an effort to kill your retinas with clashing interface colours – but I digress). But 2K's attempt is even worse because they're not bothering with a subtitle that states 'this is a game in the series', but rather give it a name easily confused with the original as though to say 'we own this IP now and it is what we say it is'. It's a slap in the face to Mythos Games (and to a lesser extent, Microprose) who put out some of the most genre defining games the PC has ever seen. 2K basically busted into Gollop's home and took a Taco Bell shit in his laundry hamper for a few lousy bucks.

    As for Deus Ex 3…. I want it to be good. I very very desperately want it to be good. I want to be able to walk by the Eidos Montreal offices on my way to work and want to drop in with some Timbits and coffee for 'em rather than be tempted to stalk the parking lot waiting to clobber each lead staff member with a barbed-wire cricket bat. That's what I want. But I'm afraid – and not afraid of another Invisible War. No, for all the bad rap it gets, Invisible War wasn't strictly speaking a bad game – it just wasn't on the level of one of the best games of all time. I'm afraid of getting the pureed baby food bullshit that passes for depth in most of today's games. I'm afraid of DE3 turning out to be Splinter Cell with cybernetics. This is the last chance for this series. If this game fails to live up to expectations, the name Deus Ex will become another Ion Storm dirty word, like Daikatana. I couldn't bear that to happen.

  • http://www.facebook.com/koztah Koztah V.

    I would like to take a moment to point out that that particular line is about a dozen times funnier if said with a lisp. Try it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/koztah Koztah V.

    For an encore, you can download Lethal Weapon 3. Whoowee!

  • Joon_Studios

    Remember when Wind Waker was revealed. “I heard gunfire!” But it turned into one of the most finest and richest Zelda in the series. So everyone, I can't wait to find out that Skyward Sword really is a turning point for Zelda and everybody who instead bought Halo Reach and Killzone 3 will turn around and say, DARN! I should have used my money to but that. Truthfully I like to dive into new games but Zelda I will always remember to be one of the first games I ever laid my eyes on and thus stay faithful to it. But you know what, while the Wii is bad at realism I will admit that Unreal's realism graphics are finished and they are now implementing color. I'd have to say for a realistic game Gears of War 3 looks quite colorful but besides that I pre-ordered Skyward Sword before it was announced in February. I CAN'T WAIT!!!

  • StealthKnight

    I makes me wonder what do we define as realism? Photo realistic graphics for any system is still far away but there are games in the past that may look old today but were considered realistic at the time. Deux ex, Shenmue, Fallout, Hitman, etc; those game were realistic to me because of the combination of graphics style and atmosphere. Even today, I find myself impressed with graphics in old games and which some modern games had the same syle that reminded me of the originals but improved.

  • StealthKnight

    I too remember when everyone was saying it would be a disaster but everyone soon got over it and liked it. Not many people are trolling about the graphics or the motion controls. At least not yet. I'm looking forward to this and other games that will come out.

    I believe it's the style of graphics and atmosphere that make games look realistic rather then photo realism. Deux ex, Hitman, Thief, Shenmue and other games were realistic to me because of the details, the graphical style and the atmosphere. Even Majoria's mask and WindWaker felt realistic because of the time and people having schedule's. I kind of miss that from Twilight princess.

  • http://twitter.com/Mohia_Keria Mohia Keria

    I always loved Deus Ex, invisible war wasn't too bad although was easy.
    Reminded me of system shock 2 when I played it for the first time, in the cyberpunk style sorta way.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Louis-Burgos/1281147726 Louis Burgos

    “I saw a dead dog. It made me wanna cry” – Joe

    Just the way he says it. It made me laugh.

    By the way.
    You are a very entertaining interviewer, Spoonmeister.

  • darknight910

    My feelings on X-Com is this: 2K, It's a reboot. Stop pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining!

    On one hand I shouldn't even be putting any of my own thoughts on X-Com because I never played the games before, either growing up or now and only recently did I learn of their existence. I was a console gamer, not a PC gamer growing up. My first computer was an Apple 2 and the first upgrade I did after that was to get a Dell XPS, that's how out of the loop I was with PC gaming. After doing a little research on the game series, I can see why Spoony is getting all up in arms about everything being thrown out that he knew and love and slapping the X-Com name on it. Because for once in a long time, I actually agree with Angry Joe, the game looks great, it looks fun and exciting and new. But it's not X-Com.

    I'm certain many people would be happy if they had simply named the game something 50's Sci-Fi-like, such as “They came from Planet 9″ or “Aliens Attack!” or something, it would be totally retro and no one would know that it's an X-Com remake. But the least the company and the presenters can do us a favor and either stop calling it X-Com or just admit the truth: It's a reboot of the series entirely, they're throwing everything out to make it all it's own and if they'd just own up to it, I'm certain the fans would be less pissed off about it.

  • popov89

    am I the only one who thinks the music that plays during the Human Revolution trailer sounds just like the Mass Effect music?

  • E-tank

    As a huge Deus Ex fan, i personally can't wait for Human Revolution. The stuff you're reported on it and the stuff i've seen on it make it out to be possibly Game of the Year material. My favorite picks from E3 so far aside from Deus Ex are Shogun 2, Fable 3 and a few others i can't seem to dig out of my gray matter at the time. Oh by the way, it's awesome that you got to go to E3 and report on all this stuff. Keep on rocking.

  • capthavic

    When it comes to XCOM I think it's still too early to tell. I never played XCOM growing up so I don't have strong feelings about it like Joe and Spoony. But hopefully it will be good.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Gane/100000020837046 Tom Gane

    Glad to hear people saying this. Spoony hates the Wii, which I feel sad about. Then again, he hates pretty much most things! I love realism as much as the fantastic, and have to say that although the past couple of years have been great for violent, expansive, realistic world games, the one I've had most fun playing recently is Mario Galaxy 2.

    Looking back on Wind Waker, which I'm sure is the epitome of what Spoony hates, the graphics stand up far better than any other game of the last generation – Halo 2, Okami, Shadow of the Colossus, nothing comes close. I personally think WW is still better looking in comparison to most 360, PS3 and Wii games, because the style is pretty much flawless.

    I find it very hypocritical that Spoony begins by disdaining the ever growing amount of additions to franchises, then proceeds to acclaim Deus Ex 3. Which really sounds like so many other games – multiple choices to every problem – realistic, living world – stealth, non lethal play – and different ways to augment your character to kill people is nothing new! It still looks really impressive, but I feel my opinion has been tainted by his blatant hypocrisy. Just because you hate the Wii, Spoony, don't shrug it off like it's nothing. Otherwise people like me will begin to question your opinions about everything else. Sure you are allowed your own opinion, but you speak like you have never even given this system a single chance!
    And the flailing arms thing – come on, that insult is older than the Wii itself and has long been proven as exaggerated antagonism. It's just the same with everything – there are the gimmicky games which make you do stupid actions with the controls, and then there are the good games.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alex.martin Alex Martin

    Why do you hate the Wii Spoony? Please elaborate…

  • jjmara

    best spoony thing spoony ever said in E3: BETRAYAL

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GYBBN5KRWSJTGZB7QOEYV7BBSU John

    wow…xcom looks good. I guess im saying that 'cause I haven't played the origional

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Codie-Kaczrouske/100000624320853 Codie Kaczrouske

    hey cool that person in the leather jacket i have the same jacket as him coolio

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Codie-Kaczrouske/100000624320853 Codie Kaczrouske

    hey cool that person in the leather jacket i have the same jacket as him coolio

  • randommomentofdumbchick

    its nice to see the rageflowing in noah. i would have loved to see the g4 interviews be for passionate.
    I like you and AJ ‘s E3 coverage way more!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Engvul/100001517622049 James Engvul

    Because it’s not his fucking preference. What does it matter to you?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TZO32POHDUTANHNSP4G5GZ2YTA saad

    Wow, that x-com demo was like a punch to the gut. That “betrayal!!!oneone” was completely justified, echos included.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=732213332 Josh Thomas

    Those black goo things from XCOM looks like the Venom symbiote.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KM55EU6T3VLNXGKWOLV52OZKOM Fdfg

    Shut the fuck up joe you dont know jack shit what youre talking about.

    Yea yea its creepy theres goo everywhere bla bla bla wtf that has to do with xcom ?

    Spoony was pretty much spot on on his part.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KM55EU6T3VLNXGKWOLV52OZKOM Fdfg

    Shut the fuck up joe you dont know jack shit what youre talking about.

    Yea yea its creepy theres goo everywhere bla bla bla wtf that has to do with xcom ?

    Spoony was pretty much spot on on his part.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KM55EU6T3VLNXGKWOLV52OZKOM Fdfg

    Shut the fuck up joe you dont know jack shit what youre talking about.

    Yea yea its creepy theres goo everywhere bla bla bla wtf that has to do with xcom ?

    Spoony was pretty much spot on on his part.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bruce-Kilkowski/583400802 Bruce Kilkowski

    I’m with Joe on this one. X-COM looks like a lot of fun.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lysander-Darkholme-Price/100002252740861 Lysander Darkholme Price

    WOOO ANGRY SPOONY!!! loved it!
    I kept seeing you reference this clip, so I started poking around the videos & found it, funnier seeing the whole clip of you screaming ‘betrayal!’ the look on joe’s face LOL
    alright, GO SPOONY ‘I WILL AIR JUGGLE YOUR ASS!!’ that was hilarious

  • Anonymous

    Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a terrific game. I want a Spoony review! Of the first game too.

  • Anonymous

    I love how Spoony says “betrayed me”. Sounds like he’s a preacher or something… in a good way.

  • Anonymous

    Does anybody know if Sponny liked Deus Ex 3? Never got a review, a vlog, or really even a mention. Just curious.

  • ThomasMink

     Joe sold the whole “BETRAYAL!” scream like nobody’s business there. If he wasn’t there, I’m sure it would’ve still worked.. but seeing his reaction made it golden.
    And yea.. I watched this video just to hear that scream again. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/christofor.barrett Christofor Barrett

    BETRAYAL!
    Good thing spoony isnt a diablo fan

  • Bren Thoreson

    Ah Joe you were so optimistic back then.

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