Avatar Review (12-19-09)

The Spoony One | Dec 20 2009 | more notation(s) | 

My brother and I return for a hotly-contested debate about James Cameron’s long-awaited sci-fi epic “Avatar!”

  • http://www.giantbomb.com/ Alex

    I watched it yesterday. Truly amazing movie.

    • Anonymous

      I also have to disagree with Spoony on this one – I really enjoyed this film. The story WAS the same as Dances With Wolves (James Cameron even said he sees the connection), but that doesn’t mean it is not enjoyable.

      So much sci-fi already draws heavily from so much other sci-fi that it’s hard to MAKE or WRITE any science fiction without someone saying “Well, so-and-so did it first!”. Well, no shit – people are always going to get to it first. Science fiction has been in the works for over half a century, and at this point it’s hard to make anything without someone pointing a finger and saying it’s ripped from something else.

      The characters were well-done, the visuals were spectacular (I saw it in 3D and it was absolutely worth it), the acting was fantastic, and the Colonel was absolutely badass (Captain Testosterone there). The action was awesome, the environment was awesome, it was all presented so well. When the troops were marching through the forest I actually felt afraid for them – what would it be like to march through an alien world? Scary as hell, that’s what.

      It was well-done, and way better than 2012 – that conspiracy bullshit is something I wish I had not fed money into. Avatar is a movie that appealed to a lot of people, and something that I wish more directors would get into – developing science fiction. If the appeal for science fiction is enough to gross this much income, maybe we’ll see more of it. I hope so.

  • kumakun

    You guys didn't like it? o.o I loved it…thought it was the best film I ever saw >.>' Although I saw it in the IMAX in full awesome 3D. The Tron film is next =3

    • http://www.vaughnonmovies.com/ Vaughn On Movies

      I hear Dolby 3D is the best of the technologies, that’s what I saw it in.

      Anyone who wants to checkout my reviews is welcome, NOTE I sided more with Miles: http://bit.ly/8v5oXC

    • http://www.vaughnonmovies.com/ Vaughn On Movies

      I hear Dolby 3D is the best of the technologies, that’s what I saw it in.

      Anyone who wants to checkout my reviews is welcome, NOTE I sided more with Miles: http://bit.ly/8v5oXC

  • AlucardtheIII

    SHIT WAS SO CASH!

  • Tarkenfire

    It's Miles!

    Oh yeah, a review as well.

  • vaughnfry

    I know you guys have come to expect this, but here's my video and written review of Avatar: http://www.vaughnonmovies.com/2009/12/avatar-½/

  • vaughnfry

    I know you guys have come to expect this out of me, but here's my video and written review of Avatar: http://www.vaughnonmovies.com/2009/12/avatar-½/

  • Anonymous

    i don’t know about you guys, but this is the best movie i’ve seen in years, and trust me i’ve seen a few.

  • Anonymous

    i don’t know about you guys, but this is the best movie i’ve seen in years, and trust me i’ve seen a few.

  • http://overlord-kay.deviantart.com/ Kaithan

    My sister and I saw the trailer for this when we went to Zombieland. My response was:
    “Why couldn’t they fix his legs before when they have bipedal mechs and space travel?”
    Her response was “So it’s basically just Ferngully?”

    • Anonymous

      They actually can, but a former jarhead like our main character can’t afford it. The evil cournel promises to fix his legs if he completes the mission for him, so it’s a plot point.

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        more like plot device…seriously, could have kept his brother and gotten the same results.

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        more like plot device…seriously, could have kept his brother and gotten the same results.

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        more like plot device…seriously, could have kept his brother and gotten the same results.

  • http://overlord-kay.deviantart.com/ Kaithan

    My sister and I saw the trailer for this when we went to Zombieland. My response was:
    “Why couldn’t they fix his legs before when they have bipedal mechs and space travel?”
    Her response was “So it’s basically just Ferngully?”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Zanfini/790431483 Brian Zanfini

    nice review as usual, idk tho..its not something im not into really and plus it doesnt look that great..and after hearing both you and your bro's opinion on it, im probably just gonna wait

  • Namewithheld2

    The mountains were floating because they were stuffed full of unobtanium, which *floats*. That's why its *valuable*.

    The reason why the humans didn't mine the floating mountains was presumably because A) It was in a vortex of energy that scrambled their scanning equipment, B) it was far away and fucking floating, and finally C) The Na'vi tree was much closer.

    But, well, the movie hinges on you being able to accept the CGI as emotionally important and impactful. I could…but you obviously could not. Eh, that's why people have different tastes.

    • Anonymous

      The device that the unobtanium was on made it float, later the unobtanium is held in someones hand and doesn’t float.

      Also it would be far easier to not commit the lives of all there troops and just mine the floating island…but again the unobtanium didn’t float.

      The Na’vi were on the largest deposit of unobtanium and they didn’t float. That element didn’t make sense

    • Anonymous

      The device that the unobtanium was on made it float, later the unobtanium is held in someones hand and doesn’t float.

      Also it would be far easier to not commit the lives of all there troops and just mine the floating island…but again the unobtanium didn’t float.

      The Na’vi were on the largest deposit of unobtanium and they didn’t float. That element didn’t make sense

  • Aiolome

    Awesome review, Spoony :)

  • Lowcifur

    I love it when Noah manages to get his brother to help in an interview. I hope he gets to show up more often and get more comfortable ranting in front of the camera; it's interesting to see a counterpoint to Spoony that isn't a character.

  • http://twitter.com/FotoVerite Matthew Bergman

    Thank the lord one of my reviews hated this piece of trash. Terrible script, with pretty eye candy. Nothing new to see here folks. Keep rocking on Noah. Hopefully in ten years people will understand how overrated this piece of trash is.

  • Anonymous

    Thank You Spoony!!! Finally someone else realizes what a preachy James Cameron ego infested nowhere near subtle “lessons” about hoe EVIL the army is.

    That be said….i did actually enjoy this movie. I thought Stphen Lang, Sam Worthington, the tall skinny guy(sorry i can’t remember his name…Joel something i think), Sigourney Weaver were great. By the way about Sigourney Weaver’s death? Wasn’t that pure total bullshit??!! She was on the other side of the damn helicopter. O and Giovanni Ribisi was good..he was pretty damn annoying though. I didn’t like how he gives all the evil orders to destroy everything…but every now and then..he gives these little looks of “WTF am i doing” and it pissed me off.

  • Anonymous

    Thank You Spoony!!! Finally someone else realizes what a preachy James Cameron ego infested nowhere near subtle “lessons” about hoe EVIL the army is.

    That be said….i did actually enjoy this movie. I thought Stphen Lang, Sam Worthington, the tall skinny guy(sorry i can’t remember his name…Joel something i think), Sigourney Weaver were great. By the way about Sigourney Weaver’s death? Wasn’t that pure total bullshit??!! She was on the other side of the damn helicopter. O and Giovanni Ribisi was good..he was pretty damn annoying though. I didn’t like how he gives all the evil orders to destroy everything…but every now and then..he gives these little looks of “WTF am i doing” and it pissed me off.

  • http://twitter.com/DRnoupdates David Ribeiro

    Miles may not yet have the same affinity with the camera as you have, Spoony, but he's entertaining as hell.

    Great review, guys! I was laughing my A** off.

  • Anonymous

    15:50, I totally agree with Spoony. I hate to be “undirectly” “lectured” like that.

    Haven’t seen avatar yet, but I think I’m going to watch it and accept it for what it is. Btw, Miles should be in your videos much more often. I like to hear different opinions in a review

  • Anonymous

    15:50, I totally agree with Spoony. I hate to be “undirectly” “lectured” like that.

    Haven’t seen avatar yet, but I think I’m going to watch it and accept it for what it is. Btw, Miles should be in your videos much more often. I like to hear different opinions in a review

  • Anonymous

    I thought 3D was a gimmick as well and never bothered, but it’s really worth it to see it in 3D.

  • Anonymous

    I thought 3D was a gimmick as well and never bothered, but it’s really worth it to see it in 3D.

  • Anonymous

    Look im part native american and im a hard core capitalist so we i say this movie i felt slapped about the face by hollywood liberals telling me that my believe are wrong and evil and using a shallow vale of native american suffrage to give their point false depths. Even their portrait of space injuns came across as stupid and stereotypical. Oh and this movie reminded me a lot of Pocahontas im not going to go into this but if you see it you’ll get my point. And also does the space smurfs usb hair grow pre braided or do the “corporations” employ a crack team of hair braiders?

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      also…i kinda found the fact how the native amercan stand ins known as the NAVI didnt want to advance when Indians always wanted medicine and new technology. its wasnt that they despised it, they just werent used to it.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      also…i kinda found the fact how the native amercan stand ins known as the NAVI didnt want to advance when Indians always wanted medicine and new technology. its wasnt that they despised it, they just werent used to it.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      also…i kinda found the fact how the native amercan stand ins known as the NAVI didnt want to advance when Indians always wanted medicine and new technology. its wasnt that they despised it, they just werent used to it.

  • Anonymous

    Look im part native american and im a hard core capitalist so we i say this movie i felt slapped about the face by hollywood liberals telling me that my believe are wrong and evil and using a shallow vale of native american suffrage to give their point false depths. Even their portrait of space injuns came across as stupid and stereotypical. Oh and this movie reminded me a lot of Pocahontas im not going to go into this but if you see it you’ll get my point. And also does the space smurfs usb hair grow pre braided or do the “corporations” employ a crack team of hair braiders?

  • sukid

    Lol I couldn't see the entire thing, need sleep, but it was a lot of fun what I did watch.

  • Anonymous

    Went to the bathroom and missed first. Seriously, do you guys have this site on speed dial? It’s 4am on the east coast dammit. Ohioans don’t stand a chance for these late postings.

  • Anonymous

    Went to the bathroom and missed first. Seriously, do you guys have this site on speed dial? It’s 4am on the east coast dammit. Ohioans don’t stand a chance for these late postings.

  • sukid

    … and by that I mean the review, not the movie. x_x

  • Anonymous

    amazing movie. I’m debating if i should make a rebuttal video to this. i honestly think Noah needs to see the film again i dont think the plot was meant to be understood the way he interpret, and i can use plenty of logic and reason to project this point. im not hating i just was sure you would find some sort of appreciation with this film. especially considering some of the other things you seemed to be interested in, but i do understand this review was also done right after you saw the film maybe that has something to do with it. anyway have a good one. all your other videos are awesome. but honestly this one comes sucks and comes off very egoic. the movie was beautiful and all humans are much more connected with the planet than most are aware of, and energy is surrounding all of us its a constant that always “is” the movie projects some very important ideals that should be paid attention to. not in a preachy way but in a spiritual way, humans not just Americans are conditioned to be greedy and base their lives on scarcity all ways wanting what isn’t abundant forgetting to fallow passion which is what our true purpose is in my opinion is, having a world controlled by monetary gain is what is distracting abandoning such distraction would produce a much closer relationship between the being and the earth.i think the movie was more so trying to send the message of reconnecting with ourselves and detaching from this absurd destructive way of life and turning to a way of life forgotten by the ancients.have a good one lol

  • Anonymous

    amazing movie. I’m debating if i should make a rebuttal video to this. i honestly think Noah needs to see the film again i dont think the plot was meant to be understood the way he interpret, and i can use plenty of logic and reason to project this point. im not hating i just was sure you would find some sort of appreciation with this film. especially considering some of the other things you seemed to be interested in, but i do understand this review was also done right after you saw the film maybe that has something to do with it. anyway have a good one. all your other videos are awesome. but honestly this one comes sucks and comes off very egoic. the movie was beautiful and all humans are much more connected with the planet than most are aware of, and energy is surrounding all of us its a constant that always “is” the movie projects some very important ideals that should be paid attention to. not in a preachy way but in a spiritual way, humans not just Americans are conditioned to be greedy and base their lives on scarcity all ways wanting what isn’t abundant forgetting to fallow passion which is what our true purpose is in my opinion is, having a world controlled by monetary gain is what is distracting abandoning such distraction would produce a much closer relationship between the being and the earth.i think the movie was more so trying to send the message of reconnecting with ourselves and detaching from this absurd destructive way of life and turning to a way of life forgotten by the ancients.have a good one lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=636523153 facebook-636523153

    I haven't seen in yet (going to see it tomorrow) and I'm not expecting too much as this plot has been done to death with Ferngully, Dances with Wolves, Little Big Man, etc. I think I will like it for the things I want out if though (good action sequences and amazing effects).

  • LandlordROB

    Spoony, you're a reviewer that a lot of points you and I share, I infinitely respect you, and I see you as probably the only credible critic where I can actually watch your reviews, and that changes whether or not I decide to see this movie. THAT BEING SAID, I will admit, this movie has nothing original. It has nothing to call its own. But at the same time, that doesn't make it a bad movie. Look at a game like Uncharted 2, where the same thing applies; the game has almost nothing unique about it, but everything it has, it does greatly. It takes all these different ideas, and says, “Well, we can do it just as good”. Plus, I'm gonna have to join the crowd and say that this is by far the most beautiful movie I have ever seen. This movie is worth the 18-berjillion dollars it costed to make it. And honestly, my jaw must have dropped at least 5 times in that theater, particularly after seeing how gorgeous the wildlife on Pandora was. It was a very entertaining movie, and to me, didn't feel like it was as long as it was with its pacing. I love ya man, but I gotta share my opinion.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, I don’t really buy into hype that much. Wasn’t that interested in this movie… I love science fiction, I love fantasy, I love interspecies communications and interactions (So long as they aren’t cliche) but I just never was interested in Avatar.

    I absolutely loved your rant on the, as Brain would say it, SYMBOLISM!!!!, of white people being jerks to everyone else. I’m sick of that too.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah, I don’t really buy into hype that much. Wasn’t that interested in this movie… I love science fiction, I love fantasy, I love interspecies communications and interactions (So long as they aren’t cliche) but I just never was interested in Avatar.

    I absolutely loved your rant on the, as Brain would say it, SYMBOLISM!!!!, of white people being jerks to everyone else. I’m sick of that too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/travizzt Travis Eisenbrandt

    I've been watching you for a while and finally thought I should post a comment… Yeah, that doesn't sound creepy at all.

    Anyways, I have yet to see the movie… That is if I see it at all. At least I can see it for free (lucky me having a sister that works at a movie theater). Honestly, I really could care less about it. From the previews and trailers I just couldn't understand why it's being so hyped. Sure it has a huge production cost, sure it has “amazing” cgi, and sure it's James Cameron. Yet, as soon as I saw those Navi (“Hey Link!”), my interest was totally gone. They look fake. They look terrible. They look too cartoony. Now I can suspend my disbelief, I can believe mountains can float. The only thing I thought looked good was the scenery. Such a pretty planet.

  • Ran88

    I've been a skeptic of this movie for a long time. Dances with Wolves is one of my all time favorite movies but I don't want to see the exact same story transplanted into another movie. I can't believe that 500 million was blown on such a derivative and uninspired premise. I reallly don't want to se it, especially since the movies marketing has one of the stupidest fucking taglines of recent years. If the commercial says that “movies will never be the same” than the actual movie is almost guarenteed to dissapoint.

    About the cg, I haven't seen a more convincing performance than Golom way back in 2003. Since then no other cg character in any movie that I have seen even comes close to drawing me in like he did and considering that was 6 years ago it seems kind of pathetic that despite the increased prevalence of cg in movies that nobody has come close to creating a cg character that surpasses Gollom in terms of emotional connection. If any of you can think of an example of a cg character that does let me know. The point that I'm getting at is that in terms of making believable cg characters that you actually give a damn about, hollywood has really only had one success and that makes me even more skeptical of Avatars cg characters to do so.

    • Anonymous

      So, you haven’t even seen it then? The effects in this movie make Gollum look like a rubber puppet.

      • Anonymous

        No I have not seen it but I am skeptical about the whole project and that skepticism is making it hard for me to pay full price to see this. If it truly is as amazing as you say it is than it might be worth watching but I still have no desire to see the story of one of my favorite movies transplanted into another one. Since you have seen it, are the comparisons between it and Dances with Wolves valid or is it much ado about nothing?

        • Anonymous

          They are thematically similar, as James Cameron himself has acknowledged, but that is about it. the presentation and execution of the two films is completely different.

        • Anonymous

          They are thematically similar, as James Cameron himself has acknowledged, but that is about it. the presentation and execution of the two films is completely different.

      • Anonymous

        No I have not seen it but I am skeptical about the whole project and that skepticism is making it hard for me to pay full price to see this. If it truly is as amazing as you say it is than it might be worth watching but I still have no desire to see the story of one of my favorite movies transplanted into another one. Since you have seen it, are the comparisons between it and Dances with Wolves valid or is it much ado about nothing?

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        well LOTR was made 8 years ago, and WETA worked on both movies and the LOTR films had a budget of 94 million each. Avatar had at least 250 million.

        guess which one had a better story and more academy awards?

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        well LOTR was made 8 years ago, and WETA worked on both movies and the LOTR films had a budget of 94 million each. Avatar had at least 250 million.

        guess which one had a better story and more academy awards?

      • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

        well LOTR was made 8 years ago, and WETA worked on both movies and the LOTR films had a budget of 94 million each. Avatar had at least 250 million.

        guess which one had a better story and more academy awards?

  • akba666

    miles needs a screen name
    Forky?

  • http://twitter.com/J_Masterbassist J_Masterbassist

    The “white guilt” rant was absolutely spot on!

    I want an entertaining movie…not a feel good lecture.

  • Anonymous

    These two-man reviews with Miles are some of my favorite videos on TES. I love seeing the back and forth. Keep it up! :D

  • Anonymous

    These two-man reviews with Miles are some of my favorite videos on TES. I love seeing the back and forth. Keep it up! :D

  • Anonymous

    These two-man reviews with Miles are some of my favorite videos on TES. I love seeing the back and forth. Keep it up! :D

  • Anonymous

    Wow… “Unobtainium”?…. really? Well… This movie pretty much sounds exactly what I thought it’d be. I’m glad I stuck with Princess and the Frog then.

  • Anonymous

    Wow… “Unobtainium”?…. really? Well… This movie pretty much sounds exactly what I thought it’d be. I’m glad I stuck with Princess and the Frog then.

  • Anonymous

    Wow… “Unobtainium”?…. really? Well… This movie pretty much sounds exactly what I thought it’d be. I’m glad I stuck with Princess and the Frog then.

  • Anonymous

    EDIT: I’m so awesome, I posted twice.

    Placeholder!

  • Anonymous

    EDIT: I’m so awesome, I posted twice.

    Placeholder!

  • Anonymous

    EDIT: I’m so awesome, I posted twice.

    Placeholder!

  • http://twitter.com/EpicCardboard Epic Cardboard

    You really don't watch many movies, do you?

  • Aiolome

    I believe the movie is 191 min. long. At least it says in the cinema in my home town. Could be wrong though.

  • Anonymous

    I think the problem of those type of preachy movies (like Last Samurai, District 9 and brothers) is that they claim to be all about respecting blacks/natives/Dodobirds etc but that doesn’t stop them from being condescending to the races they claim to want to support. Otherwise why do a movie where the outsider comes in and magically becomes a great respected warrior or even universally better than the “home race” at whatever their supposed traditional speciality is? It’s not so much a white guilt trip put some really childish and often rather creepy great white savior fantasy. Seems to me doing a movie where native races can actually do things on their own without there needing to be a great white point of view character would actually be a lot more friendly/respectful. Because otherwise it is just a different type of the great white hero fantasy who goes somewhere and rules everybody, regardless of whether he does it by shooting everybody up or by outliberalling each other. It really is just as tired as the terrorism revenge fantasy and similarly condescending to others. Doing a movie where they take away that white point of view character would actually be a lot more interesting to watch and do a lot more to champion understanding of “others”.

  • Anonymous

    I think the problem of those type of preachy movies (like Last Samurai, District 9 and brothers) is that they claim to be all about respecting blacks/natives/Dodobirds etc but that doesn’t stop them from being condescending to the races they claim to want to support. Otherwise why do a movie where the outsider comes in and magically becomes a great respected warrior or even universally better than the “home race” at whatever their supposed traditional speciality is? It’s not so much a white guilt trip put some really childish and often rather creepy great white savior fantasy. Seems to me doing a movie where native races can actually do things on their own without there needing to be a great white point of view character would actually be a lot more friendly/respectful. Because otherwise it is just a different type of the great white hero fantasy who goes somewhere and rules everybody, regardless of whether he does it by shooting everybody up or by outliberalling each other. It really is just as tired as the terrorism revenge fantasy and similarly condescending to others. Doing a movie where they take away that white point of view character would actually be a lot more interesting to watch and do a lot more to champion understanding of “others”.

  • Anonymous

    I think the problem of those type of preachy movies (like Last Samurai, District 9 and brothers) is that they claim to be all about respecting blacks/natives/Dodobirds etc but that doesn’t stop them from being condescending to the races they claim to want to support. Otherwise why do a movie where the outsider comes in and magically becomes a great respected warrior or even universally better than the “home race” at whatever their supposed traditional speciality is? It’s not so much a white guilt trip put some really childish and often rather creepy great white savior fantasy. Seems to me doing a movie where native races can actually do things on their own without there needing to be a great white point of view character would actually be a lot more friendly/respectful. Because otherwise it is just a different type of the great white hero fantasy who goes somewhere and rules everybody, regardless of whether he does it by shooting everybody up or by outliberalling each other. It really is just as tired as the terrorism revenge fantasy and similarly condescending to others. Doing a movie where they take away that white point of view character would actually be a lot more interesting to watch and do a lot more to champion understanding of “others”.

  • SolarisParadox

    …”Unobtainium?”

    Seriously? “Unobtainium?”

    I thought I'd heard the most blatantly parodius “rare ore” name in Raritanium. Seems like I was wrong. Except this isn't funny, this is just stupid.

  • genshifox

    I'm sorry Spoony but that statement: “2012 is a better movie than Avatar”. LOL one of the most bullshit statements I've heard all year. Mission fucking accomplished!

  • genshifox

    I'm sorry Spoony but that statement: “2012 is better Movie and a bigger achievement in special effects than Avatar.” LOL that's the biggest load of bullshit you've ever said LOL

  • http://twitter.com/DANfan69 Kaohe Alama-Francis

    Spoony, everything you said I totally agree on, however, most people, mainly today's teenagers, never got to see “Dances With Wolves” so many will like it without ever knowing what this movie was ripping off.

    I totally enjoyed Miles perspective on the film as well. If Miles ever wants to get back in the camera again, he should, you guys are like a brotherly version of Siskel and Ebert.

  • lunchboxx

    good review with miles dude.

    i saw dances with wolves when i was little, so i dont remember much, but from what you and miles said, it sounds like its just another unimaginative stock plot of a movie.

    BUT, i'm easy to please, so i'll still see it….eventually.

  • ApatheticOne (the original)

    Hahaa..I knew this movie would be shit. Ferngully meets Dances With Wolves…what a joke.You guys should do more dual reviews, they work really well.

    EDIT. I saw it tonight, in 3-D and I have to say…….it’s really good…again, in 3-D. I wouldn’t pay 6 dollars to see it in a regular theater..

  • ApatheticOne (the original)

    Hahaa..I knew this movie would be shit. Ferngully meets Dances With Wolves…what a joke.You guys should do more dual reviews, they work really well.

    EDIT. I saw it tonight, in 3-D and I have to say…….it’s really good…again, in 3-D. I wouldn’t pay 6 dollars to see it in a regular theater..

  • ApatheticOne (the original)

    Hahaa..I knew this movie would be shit. Ferngully meets Dances With Wolves…what a joke.You guys should do more dual reviews, they work really well.

    EDIT. I saw it tonight, in 3-D and I have to say…….it’s really good…again, in 3-D. I wouldn’t pay 6 dollars to see it in a regular theater..

  • Kvb

    I like your brother, Spoony. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him.

    Especially because this time you didn't agree with each other. Seeing you guys respond to each other's opinions was far more interesting than a monologue review would've, or could've been.

  • holyjunkie

    You know, the way I'm hearing about this reminds me intensely of Pocahontas… I believe I spelled it right.

    I haven't watched a movie with such a story for who-knows-how long. Heck, I haven't even seen Dances With Wolves.

    However, these kinds of movies are the kinds that one would expect to bring their kids to see. Of course, you may call this one out by saying it has blood.

    So? Up had blood. Finding Nemo had blood. The Incredibles had blood. Pocahontas had blood, and if I'm correct, so did The Fox and The Hound. That being said, Avatar has blood. That's okay, so did other Disney classics that had just-as-cheesy, done-to-death plots, and had stuff that wasn't really “for childrens eyes yet.”

    Kids love this shit. It's not some douchebag kind of thing that Michael Bay craps out. Hell, from the scenes I've seen, I could actually tell what the heck was going on.

  • SolarisParadox

    It sounds like something I would mildly enjoy. I'll look into it when it hits store shelves.

    Found myself agreeing with both of you in terms of your views on movies. Does that make me some kinda schizophrenic, or something?

  • http://twitter.com/Brossolini Jason_Meza

    Good vid. I liked the movie, but I'm not what you would call a 'hardcore' movie nerd / geek. Still, good vid Spoony. Go Miles!

  • DeatheHead419

    Ya, don't bring up 20-fucking-12. That film just looked painful from the trailers and it's based on some of the most horrendious BS that has ever been grabbed on to by popular culture. No to metion that the “2012 Phenominon” is slowling sucking away whatever life was left in the History Channel.
    On another note, this has truly been a terrible year for cinema, hasn't it?

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, I agree with you whole-heartedly about the movie.

    That being said…why the hell are you wearing duck shoes? :)

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, I agree with you whole-heartedly about the movie.

    That being said…why the hell are you wearing duck shoes? :)

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, I agree with you whole-heartedly about the movie.

    That being said…why the hell are you wearing duck shoes? :)

  • http://www.deviantart.com/chibigingi ChibiGingi

    As much as I loved this movie, I still acknowledge the issues you pointed out. If anything, I can forgive everything else it had, except how it really tried to make me feel sorry for something that I have no control over (Trail of Tears and other atrocities done to the Native Americans). Yeah, I feel bad for what happened, but WTF can I do about it? I wanted to go to a reservation and beg for forgiveness after seeing this movie…
    And I didn't realize Cameron was technically working on this for ten+ years, though.
    Sorry you didn't enjoy the movie, though. I actually kind of liked the Na'vi and their USB hair, but I can understand your issue, I guess. To each his own…

  • http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/deadfacewalking.html Catherine P.

    Please tell me that stuff isn't really called Unobtainium. Dear God. Also, while I haven't seen Dances With Wolves, I have seen Disney's Pocahontas and, if you'll recall (assuming you've ever seen it), it's got the exact same plot as Avatar. I'm sure Avatar could totally have benefited from that one “SAVAGES! SAVAGES!” song, too.

  • claybird

    amazing movie. I'm debating if i should make a rebuttal video to this. i honestly think Noah needs to see the film again i dont think the plot was meant to be understood the way he interpret, and i can use plenty of logic and reason to project this point. im not hating i just was sure you would find some sort of appreciation with this film. especially considering some of the other things you seemed to be interested in, but i do understand this review was also done right after you saw the film maybe that has something to do with it. anyway have a good one. all your other videos are awesome. but honestly this one comes sucks and comes off very egoic. the movie was beautiful and all humans are much more connected with the planet than most are aware of, and energy is surrounding all of us its a constant that always “is” the movie projects some very important ideals that should be paid attention to. not in a preachy way but in a spiritual way, humans not just Americans are conditioned to be greedy and base their lives on scarcity all ways wanting what isn't abundant forgetting to fallow passion which is what our true purpose is in my opinion is, having a world controlled by monetary gain is what is distracting abandoning such distraction would produce a much closer relationship between the being and the earth.i think the movie was more so trying to send the message of reconnecting with ourselves and detaching from this absurd destructive way of life and turning to a way of life forgotten by the ancients.have a good one lol oh and go see the movie in 3d what the hell where you thinking.

  • genshifox

    to all of you who are bitching that Avatar is a rip-of of Dances with Wolves, I can just as easily say that The Matrix is just a rip-off of Ghost in the Shell and my other films

  • Booze Zombie

    Don’t go in for the hype, man.

    Besides, it’s James Cameron.

  • Booze Zombie

    Don’t go in for the hype, man.

    Besides, it’s James Cameron.

  • Booze Zombie

    Don’t go in for the hype, man.

    Besides, it’s James Cameron.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with Noah on most of his comments but me having seen the movie, 24 hrs while typing this, i have to say not bad but not good. I watched it in 3d big whoop it would be fine as a matinée 2d. I going back to think about it the humans and the navi are similar to each other in that they both can plug into things and learn form them. one was reached through science( humans) the other through weird freaky evolution. So in essence it is the same just one took master over self and the other mastery over nature. all in all decent movie but i wanted More Weaver!!

  • Anonymous

    I agree with Noah on most of his comments but me having seen the movie, 24 hrs while typing this, i have to say not bad but not good. I watched it in 3d big whoop it would be fine as a matinée 2d. I going back to think about it the humans and the navi are similar to each other in that they both can plug into things and learn form them. one was reached through science( humans) the other through weird freaky evolution. So in essence it is the same just one took master over self and the other mastery over nature. all in all decent movie but i wanted More Weaver!!

  • Anonymous

    I agree with Noah on most of his comments but me having seen the movie, 24 hrs while typing this, i have to say not bad but not good. I watched it in 3d big whoop it would be fine as a matinée 2d. I going back to think about it the humans and the navi are similar to each other in that they both can plug into things and learn form them. one was reached through science( humans) the other through weird freaky evolution. So in essence it is the same just one took master over self and the other mastery over nature. all in all decent movie but i wanted More Weaver!!

  • Anonymous

    You really did look like you felt better after venting and eating your sandwich. From what I saw of the trailers I didnt intend to go see it but I think I would still watch it as long as it was free and if I didnt have to go too far. Anyway happy holidays Spoony and as always, keep the vids comming.

  • Anonymous

    You really did look like you felt better after venting and eating your sandwich. From what I saw of the trailers I didnt intend to go see it but I think I would still watch it as long as it was free and if I didnt have to go too far. Anyway happy holidays Spoony and as always, keep the vids comming.

  • Anonymous

    You really did look like you felt better after venting and eating your sandwich. From what I saw of the trailers I didnt intend to go see it but I think I would still watch it as long as it was free and if I didnt have to go too far. Anyway happy holidays Spoony and as always, keep the vids comming.

  • bmoyn715

    even the earliest movie “masterpieces” borrowed themes and plots that had already been long established in literature (and before that human history and myth). At this point nothing is really original and the only way that Films are innovative is in the way they present themselves and how they tell the same “old stories” differently than their predecessors.

  • Anonymous

    The very basic problem of this movie is that it totally disregards its own premise once they get to Pandora. Given the state of Earth, unobtanium (and yes, that is the mineral’s name) is the savior of the human race. Among other things, it lets us get off the wrecked planet. And maybe make it less of a wreck. Fixing your power transmission and waste issues probably helps life on Earth. But the big one is that it plausibly let’s the human race leave by enabling FTL coms and effective .7c space travel. And energy-free superconductors are of course highly desirable on the spacecraft because it cuts your heat sink requirements dramatically and cuts your power requirements for running the ship. And you don’t get into the loop of having to cool the superconductor to save energy… yes, I’m a nerd.

    In the scriptment, it’s also clear that Pandora is not the only resource exploitation area for a resource-starved Earth. RDA operates elsewhere and they would need .7c starships for those resources as well.

    So “unobtanium” helps the energy situation on Earth, enables easier far-solar and extra-solar resource exploitation, and enables a chance for humans on a large scale to escape Earth if they find something that is either habitable or can be made that way.

    The story should have been over a lot more than greed and I suspect that Cameron did realize that at one point or another in the 10 years of working on this. It’s probably not in there because it exceeded his storytelling grasp to still make Jake “right” in those circumstances.

    The reason I say ignoring this angle is poor is because it lets you make some fantastic “bad” guys. Instead of a greedy corporation, you now have wide-eyed true believer crusaders. Doesn’t have to be all of them on planet, but it would be considerably more jarring to have a couple characters leaning this way. Some implicit reluctance given the stark situation – maybe they like the Na’vi – but absolute Knight Templar brutality and ruthlessness to get the job done because humanity is at stake.

    It also would screw up the strawmanning by giving the audience competing rooting interests. Good book sci-fi would tend to do just this. Authors like Sophie’s choice situations like “two worlds enter, one world leaves.” To wit:

    Humans: “We need to rip your planet apart to save our species.”

    Na’vi: “The deposit is under our sacred tree, the flying mountains are sacred, and we’re not too thrilled about this whole ‘remove 20% of Pandora’s mass and ship it to your solar system’ long term plan either.”

    Humans: “You’r right, that would probably be the end of your biosphere. We’re sorry for your loss.”

    Na’vi: “….this is bad.”

    Of course, this would make Jake’s choice to associate with the natives more asinine than it is and we can’t have the other side actually having a point. It would still be a much more interesting plot and require characters to make much more difficult choices.

    Add to this the whole stupid Vietnam and 9/11 analogies plus the “noble savage” clichee (why Hollywood still clings to that one I just cannot fathom) and even from the POV of someone who is not an American (me) you get a movie that is preachy, anti-civilizational propaganda about living in harmony with nature made by people who have the luxury not having to do just that.

    It’s also really bad and inconsequential story-telling if you think about it for more than a second. Just imagine what the Na’vi did just did:

    How does eradicating a mining colony make it less likely that you’ll be burned down to the bedrock in the long run? Your stuff is still valuable, you’ve proven you’re unwilling to negotiate, and you’ve demonstrated you’re a threat on the ground… Hey, wow, the atmosphere’s on fire, and what’s that big rock…?!

  • Anonymous

    The very basic problem of this movie is that it totally disregards its own premise once they get to Pandora. Given the state of Earth, unobtanium (and yes, that is the mineral’s name) is the savior of the human race. Among other things, it lets us get off the wrecked planet. And maybe make it less of a wreck. Fixing your power transmission and waste issues probably helps life on Earth. But the big one is that it plausibly let’s the human race leave by enabling FTL coms and effective .7c space travel. And energy-free superconductors are of course highly desirable on the spacecraft because it cuts your heat sink requirements dramatically and cuts your power requirements for running the ship. And you don’t get into the loop of having to cool the superconductor to save energy… yes, I’m a nerd.

    In the scriptment, it’s also clear that Pandora is not the only resource exploitation area for a resource-starved Earth. RDA operates elsewhere and they would need .7c starships for those resources as well.

    So “unobtanium” helps the energy situation on Earth, enables easier far-solar and extra-solar resource exploitation, and enables a chance for humans on a large scale to escape Earth if they find something that is either habitable or can be made that way.

    The story should have been over a lot more than greed and I suspect that Cameron did realize that at one point or another in the 10 years of working on this. It’s probably not in there because it exceeded his storytelling grasp to still make Jake “right” in those circumstances.

    The reason I say ignoring this angle is poor is because it lets you make some fantastic “bad” guys. Instead of a greedy corporation, you now have wide-eyed true believer crusaders. Doesn’t have to be all of them on planet, but it would be considerably more jarring to have a couple characters leaning this way. Some implicit reluctance given the stark situation – maybe they like the Na’vi – but absolute Knight Templar brutality and ruthlessness to get the job done because humanity is at stake.

    It also would screw up the strawmanning by giving the audience competing rooting interests. Good book sci-fi would tend to do just this. Authors like Sophie’s choice situations like “two worlds enter, one world leaves.” To wit:

    Humans: “We need to rip your planet apart to save our species.”

    Na’vi: “The deposit is under our sacred tree, the flying mountains are sacred, and we’re not too thrilled about this whole ‘remove 20% of Pandora’s mass and ship it to your solar system’ long term plan either.”

    Humans: “You’r right, that would probably be the end of your biosphere. We’re sorry for your loss.”

    Na’vi: “….this is bad.”

    Of course, this would make Jake’s choice to associate with the natives more asinine than it is and we can’t have the other side actually having a point. It would still be a much more interesting plot and require characters to make much more difficult choices.

    Add to this the whole stupid Vietnam and 9/11 analogies plus the “noble savage” clichee (why Hollywood still clings to that one I just cannot fathom) and even from the POV of someone who is not an American (me) you get a movie that is preachy, anti-civilizational propaganda about living in harmony with nature made by people who have the luxury not having to do just that.

    It’s also really bad and inconsequential story-telling if you think about it for more than a second. Just imagine what the Na’vi did just did:

    How does eradicating a mining colony make it less likely that you’ll be burned down to the bedrock in the long run? Your stuff is still valuable, you’ve proven you’re unwilling to negotiate, and you’ve demonstrated you’re a threat on the ground… Hey, wow, the atmosphere’s on fire, and what’s that big rock…?!

  • Anonymous

    The very basic problem of this movie is that it totally disregards its own premise once they get to Pandora. Given the state of Earth, unobtanium (and yes, that is the mineral’s name) is the savior of the human race. Among other things, it lets us get off the wrecked planet. And maybe make it less of a wreck. Fixing your power transmission and waste issues probably helps life on Earth. But the big one is that it plausibly let’s the human race leave by enabling FTL coms and effective .7c space travel. And energy-free superconductors are of course highly desirable on the spacecraft because it cuts your heat sink requirements dramatically and cuts your power requirements for running the ship. And you don’t get into the loop of having to cool the superconductor to save energy… yes, I’m a nerd.

    In the scriptment, it’s also clear that Pandora is not the only resource exploitation area for a resource-starved Earth. RDA operates elsewhere and they would need .7c starships for those resources as well.

    So “unobtanium” helps the energy situation on Earth, enables easier far-solar and extra-solar resource exploitation, and enables a chance for humans on a large scale to escape Earth if they find something that is either habitable or can be made that way.

    The story should have been over a lot more than greed and I suspect that Cameron did realize that at one point or another in the 10 years of working on this. It’s probably not in there because it exceeded his storytelling grasp to still make Jake “right” in those circumstances.

    The reason I say ignoring this angle is poor is because it lets you make some fantastic “bad” guys. Instead of a greedy corporation, you now have wide-eyed true believer crusaders. Doesn’t have to be all of them on planet, but it would be considerably more jarring to have a couple characters leaning this way. Some implicit reluctance given the stark situation – maybe they like the Na’vi – but absolute Knight Templar brutality and ruthlessness to get the job done because humanity is at stake.

    It also would screw up the strawmanning by giving the audience competing rooting interests. Good book sci-fi would tend to do just this. Authors like Sophie’s choice situations like “two worlds enter, one world leaves.” To wit:

    Humans: “We need to rip your planet apart to save our species.”

    Na’vi: “The deposit is under our sacred tree, the flying mountains are sacred, and we’re not too thrilled about this whole ‘remove 20% of Pandora’s mass and ship it to your solar system’ long term plan either.”

    Humans: “You’r right, that would probably be the end of your biosphere. We’re sorry for your loss.”

    Na’vi: “….this is bad.”

    Of course, this would make Jake’s choice to associate with the natives more asinine than it is and we can’t have the other side actually having a point. It would still be a much more interesting plot and require characters to make much more difficult choices.

    Add to this the whole stupid Vietnam and 9/11 analogies plus the “noble savage” clichee (why Hollywood still clings to that one I just cannot fathom) and even from the POV of someone who is not an American (me) you get a movie that is preachy, anti-civilizational propaganda about living in harmony with nature made by people who have the luxury not having to do just that.

    It’s also really bad and inconsequential story-telling if you think about it for more than a second. Just imagine what the Na’vi did just did:

    How does eradicating a mining colony make it less likely that you’ll be burned down to the bedrock in the long run? Your stuff is still valuable, you’ve proven you’re unwilling to negotiate, and you’ve demonstrated you’re a threat on the ground… Hey, wow, the atmosphere’s on fire, and what’s that big rock…?!

  • Anonymous

    Sorry for double post – still learning about Disqus. Seems to be working now. :D

    As far as mentioning things like Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves, this was all done better in the Twilight Zone Episode ‘A Quality of Mercy’, which was told in 30 minutes and with great impact.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry for double post – still learning about Disqus. Seems to be working now. :D

    As far as mentioning things like Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves, this was all done better in the Twilight Zone Episode ‘A Quality of Mercy’, which was told in 30 minutes and with great impact.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry for double post – still learning about Disqus. Seems to be working now. :D

    As far as mentioning things like Last Samurai and Dances with Wolves, this was all done better in the Twilight Zone Episode ‘A Quality of Mercy’, which was told in 30 minutes and with great impact.

  • bmoyn715
  • Anonymous

    Genshi – you sure can. Except that its a rather inverse rip off which i’d love to see you illustrate just for interest sake. But, on the other hand, so what? The very fact that there are ‘genre’ styles of fiction means that original ideas are hard to develop. That’s not the problem. The problem is how closely things are related to a prior idea. And the more close those two comparisons are (Avatar and Dances with Wolves, in this case), the better the story has to be told, the more developed and interesting the characters need to be, etc. In the case of Ghost in the Shell, I’ve never once Associated Batou or Kusanagi with Neo, because, as per there stories and the fact that they are… well, not as closely related as you seem to think, they have very different expositions and presentations. I suppose you could make the argument that Kusanagi’s ‘immortality’ and somewhat Deus ex Machina appearance in Ghost in the Shell 2 is similar to Neo’s seeming apotheosis in Matrix, except that Neo was a tool of prophecy and died. Kusanagi was just a badass AI that didn’t want to be killed. Based on the similarity between Costner and Worthington’s characters, I probably won’t even see this in the theatre. I’ll probably rent it and watch it with the sound muted.

  • Anonymous

    Genshi – you sure can. Except that its a rather inverse rip off which i’d love to see you illustrate just for interest sake. But, on the other hand, so what? The very fact that there are ‘genre’ styles of fiction means that original ideas are hard to develop. That’s not the problem. The problem is how closely things are related to a prior idea. And the more close those two comparisons are (Avatar and Dances with Wolves, in this case), the better the story has to be told, the more developed and interesting the characters need to be, etc. In the case of Ghost in the Shell, I’ve never once Associated Batou or Kusanagi with Neo, because, as per there stories and the fact that they are… well, not as closely related as you seem to think, they have very different expositions and presentations. I suppose you could make the argument that Kusanagi’s ‘immortality’ and somewhat Deus ex Machina appearance in Ghost in the Shell 2 is similar to Neo’s seeming apotheosis in Matrix, except that Neo was a tool of prophecy and died. Kusanagi was just a badass AI that didn’t want to be killed. Based on the similarity between Costner and Worthington’s characters, I probably won’t even see this in the theatre. I’ll probably rent it and watch it with the sound muted.

  • Anonymous

    Genshi – you sure can. Except that its a rather inverse rip off which i’d love to see you illustrate just for interest sake. But, on the other hand, so what? The very fact that there are ‘genre’ styles of fiction means that original ideas are hard to develop. That’s not the problem. The problem is how closely things are related to a prior idea. And the more close those two comparisons are (Avatar and Dances with Wolves, in this case), the better the story has to be told, the more developed and interesting the characters need to be, etc. In the case of Ghost in the Shell, I’ve never once Associated Batou or Kusanagi with Neo, because, as per there stories and the fact that they are… well, not as closely related as you seem to think, they have very different expositions and presentations. I suppose you could make the argument that Kusanagi’s ‘immortality’ and somewhat Deus ex Machina appearance in Ghost in the Shell 2 is similar to Neo’s seeming apotheosis in Matrix, except that Neo was a tool of prophecy and died. Kusanagi was just a badass AI that didn’t want to be killed. Based on the similarity between Costner and Worthington’s characters, I probably won’t even see this in the theatre. I’ll probably rent it and watch it with the sound muted.

  • http://www.deviantart.com/chibigingi ChibiGingi

    Also, I want to say that the planet reminded me of a coral reef. The way the plants interact to being touched and the way some of them illuminate when touched. Then again, I'm a loser that watches stuff on ocean life for fun… only difference is that it's not under water. Sounds like you've made your decision on how you feel, but just some food for thought since you couldn't get into believing such a planet could exist. That's all.

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the heads up on Avatar, I’ll see it later then. Also I’m always wondering what your shirts says could you do a shirt video showing your favorite ones just so I can see what they say. :D

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the heads up on Avatar, I’ll see it later then. Also I’m always wondering what your shirts says could you do a shirt video showing your favorite ones just so I can see what they say. :D

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for the heads up on Avatar, I’ll see it later then. Also I’m always wondering what your shirts says could you do a shirt video showing your favorite ones just so I can see what they say. :D

  • http://www.thewrestlingfan.com/deadfacewalking.html Catherine P.

    Ah, I see. Thanks for the link; definitely clears that up.

  • theinterbutt

    I'm surprised you won the Mashable's with 90% of your content are these vlogs. Seriously. You're fans must graciously ignore these god damn piles of vapid shit or else they wouldn't have even voted for you. These videos are way too long, make no use of the video medium, and are just you meandering on a subject. Also, did I mention that they are WAY TOO FUCKING LONG? 40 minutes is way to fucking long for a impromptu rant. For fuck's sake, I might say that 20 minutes is too long. Shorten your damn vlogs!

    But making these vlogs shorter really isn't enough. Script your rants. Seriously, you are not good at improve. But even then, that wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't just you talking into a camera. Make use of the video medium, that's what it's there for! Show relevant clips, pictures, WHATEVER! Just use it, for fuck's sake! Otherwise, this is just a bloated MP3.

    Also; In before I get a bunch of “IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T WATCH IT, IT'S FREE DURR HURR” replies. As a fan of Spoony's, it really hurts to see that nearly all of his updates now are these hour long bore-fests. How about finishing that Let's Play on Swat 4? That was pretty awesome. Or anything else, for that matter.

    Also, I read most of your text rant you just posted. I get the feeling it was mostly about hate speech on your site, but I can't help feel that some of it was over criticisms of your videos. Don't dip into the DeviantArt mindset. You are way too good for that. If you're going to just brush away criticism as “trolling” and surround yourself with mindless retards who will only praise your shit, then you're only going to become a worst reviewer.

    Don't believe me? Go to DeviantArt and Newgrounds and tell me the ratio of worthless praise to shit flashes stacks up. Hell, even lurk this thread at Something Awful for a bit: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php

    Fix these vlogs. Make them shorter, stop doing as many, make use of the video medium, and script them. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if people begin to stop watching because they're frustrated with how clogged up the site is with these damn vlogs.

  • http://twitter.com/NukeMouse Alexander Close

    Okay i am 16. I have never heard of avatar until a few weeks ago and the ads for it were extremely vague. I went in knowing only that they were on an alien planet for some corporate enterprise and there were aliens called the na'vi. I saw this film in 3D because that was the most convenient session time.

    To me this movie says “lets make something awesome” instead of “lets make something original”. There are lots of good original movies. But there are bad ones too. By focusing on the characters and creatures as opposed to making some original plotline it to me made it a really great movie.

    I have to say the only thing i truly could not believe was the waterfalls on the floating mountains. The rest i could kinda believe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/herrkilman Joakim Kilman

    Bitching about the story is completely missing the point of the movie. Avatar is a classic story rather than a clichéd one. These types of timeless stories have been told many times and will continue to be told, because they are timeless. The question is: how well does the Avatar tell this story. Pretty fucking well, I'd say.

    Avatar is all about emotion. It's a chance to experience an adventure unlike any other. The plot is not the thing to focus on here (although it IS a classic, timeless story). It's the adventure. Avatar has more depth than the brain first comprehends. It's all in the visuals and the visceral experience of the intense scenes and the beauty of the more lingering scenarios. It's a movie about the existence and the worth of being alive. To me, it perfectly captures the essence of awe, wonder and adventure and uses these emotions to capture what is is to be alive in this existence. All by showing us the wonders of another world and another culture.

    This is a movie to get swept up by. Leave the cynicisms at the door and let yourself get caught up in the emotions and adventures of the movie, because that's the point! When you analyse the movie afterwards, that is what you want to focus on, not all those tiresome Dances With Wolves references that we've already heard to death. That is missing the point completely and utterly.

  • thehenryspock

    Lets not forget Atmospherium!

  • bmoyn715

    Then compare compare the matrix to any of this
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulated_reality_

  • http://www.deviantart.com/chibigingi ChibiGingi

    While I would love for more of his other reviews, I don't think I have an issue with his VLogs (well, except maybe the lengths of some of them… I have them as background noise for the most part). I mean, Noah considers himself a movie critic above all else, and of course he's going to want to give others a head's up on the current movies. However, you do raise a good point: they need to be slightly shorter and perhaps a little scripted. Not completely scripted, but at least to where he'll cover the important stuff. 10, 15 minutes would be fine for Vlogs; that way he gets his message across and not feel so winded by the end of them. I love Spoony, but 40 minutes for a Vlog -is- pushing it, and I like them (eh, for the most part. As I said, I run them as background noise half the time).

  • genshifox

    Thehairypock – You rent it and watch it with the sound muted but I bet it's not going to turn into a shity movie trilogy

  • bmoyn715

    Could not have said it better myself, well done

  • thehenryspock

    Why would I try to turn it into anything?

  • thehenryspock

    Man, I'd love to, because I'd probably rather read or watch any of those titles than watch the Matrix again right now, but that's rather a bit more time that I have. My point was that the Matrix was (as you point out) about simulated reality, but Ghost in the Shell was about the difference between soul and artificial intelligence.

  • bmoyn715

    There is no such thing as an original plotline anymore, only original presentation or pre-existing plotlines, concepts or themes

  • CrimsonDusk

    YES you really answer some of my questions to this movie.I agree the story is what it matters, if there is no more originality than make it original through the execution and I don't mean special effects, I mean characters you can relate to and feel sorry for them, engrossing story, wonderful performed soundtrack( well that too is a problem in originality), state of the art animatronics, I'd prefer to see some detailed fur costumes than some hammed down CGI puppet that it doesn't even realistically interact with the world or humans.

    The movie, as I understand, is technically another critique towards the old Bush administration or even to the new Government, that Pandora is the Oil and the Navi are the Muslims and the Terrans are the Americans or whoever joined the war against Muslims. Yeah subtle but I think most people will still go with The Dances With Wolves comparison and not realize it could be more similar to present day happenings. Also no gray characters, really that demonstrate the moral is shoved not in your moth but up your ass and it hurts like Hell when they think we deserved it to be patronized with hammy delivered plot. I think directors should take a step back from presenting their politics in movies and just present us a good story that should impress us with it's humanity, action, drama and not it's politics. You still got to hand it to Cameron he knows what sells this days: CGI. Look at Pixar, look at Dreamworks, they get crap loads of money with CGI furries and 2 year old written stories and OH SNAP dialog.

    Too bad that I think this movie won't go down in history as a masterpiece but as a huge BOX-OFFICE FLOP, but who knows maybe people will go to see Smurfs the Green Avengers. Also I think I'll wait for the DVD just to see the final battle because it gets allot of appraisal. But James Cameron has lost it with character characterization if you say the humans seemed extremely evil and the Navi were seen as some poor lost souls.

  • Anonymous

    I think you guys might be interested in Moviebob’s take on it;

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1333-Avatar

  • Anonymous

    I think you guys might be interested in Moviebob’s take on it;

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1333-Avatar

  • Anonymous

    I think you guys might be interested in Moviebob’s take on it;

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/1333-Avatar

  • kle4

    I hadn't even heard of this movie until recently, nor have I seen Dances with Wolves, but I think the claims of unoriginality are fair enough. It wasn't spectacularly innovative in that area certainly, and that can be fine. It was entertaining, an interesting spectacle, but not a masterpiece all the same. I'd watch it again quite happily, but I doubt I'd ever buy it or be one of those movies I'd want to watch over and over. Then again, that has been my general reaction to most of Cameron's movies, none of which I've thought merited the enormous praise they get. Like them, Avatar has plenty to praise, but it isn't a movie which will stand tall through the ages, if you'll forgive the expression. Fine review all the same.

  • entenfett

    Nice to see Miles again. Good Video, did not see the movie yet, and probably wont until it comes out on dvd.

  • CrimsonDusk

    Also I'd like to add something else to my comment that I forgot, the lack of original plotlines, also I thinks there is a lack of original execution this days in movies, is the reason why Hollywood is looking this days in different mediums or at least for the past 3 or 5 years. That's why they are doing this days so often comicbook movies or remakes of foreign movies or even bastardize animes and mangas. Hollywood isn't doing this because they want to tackle original and fantastic stories, which you can find in the mediums I enumerated above, but because they know there is a fanbase. A fanbase that they interestingly enough they estrange by the fact the Americanize the movie or sometimes because they try to be too faithful and miss the point. Well here's to Nolan's 3rd Batman movie, if that will ever happen.

  • http://www.deviantart.com/chibigingi ChibiGingi

    Not all of the humans were evil, as Sigourney Wreaver, other scientists and a pilot were among the “good guys”, but it was very black and white. Either you were with the Na'vi (therefor, GOOD) or you wanted oil, I mean, energon, I mean, WHATEVER IT WAS (therefor evil). No antagonists, but villains. Trust me, HUGE difference between them. It'd be one thing if, say, someone on the 'bad' side needed the mineral to get the money to save his family or something and fought against his will, but everyone in the military seemed eager to shoot and kill. Very, very black and white, and that bugs me now that more I sit and think about it than it did while watching the movie. Irritating, as there wasn't a single person on the 'bad' side that I really liked (hell, I was even rooting for the commander Hoo Ha to die, and I enjoyed him for the most part).

    So, in short, I agree.

  • http://www.deviantart.com/chibigingi ChibiGingi

    I watched it as well, but Spoony and Moviebob have different taste in the matter. I'm guessing Moviebob is more willing to accept whatever bad came with what he felt was good, and that's perfectly fine. I'm still leaning towards Moviebob's verdict, but I can definitely acknowledge the issues that Spoony pointed out. Then again, I'm not a movie critic. I just like to sit down and watch a good/decent/great movie. I'd rather watch this again than anything Twilight, but that goes without saying.

  • joedos

    Oh dude. What the hell are you talking about? 2012 was the most horrible movie I have seen in ages. There is no way that Avatar could have sucked that bad. I would rather sit through a government film on how bad us white people are then to sit through 2012 again. Seriously, it's that bad. If there was ever a movie where they just threw a bunch of shit together for an excuse to ruin shit, it's that movie. I mean, for god sakes, his wife left him because he was a writer. He wrote too much. How dare he use his talent to buy them a home and a pot to piss in. He should have had a job outside the home so that they didn't see how much time he wasted working to pay the bills instead of helping her sorry ass do the laundry whenever the mood struck her.

    My god dude, what about Gordy? This asshole actually has the balls to say he always wanted a family of his own. So what, you are going to borrow mine? How about a house of your own? Would you like that too? Hey, do you like mine? Don't worry, you can get that with the package deal along with my wife's vage and my kids' token love. The only relationship status they gave us in the entire movie was the word “separate.” NOOO mention of divorce. Gordon has some biiiiiig balls. Does anyone remember Secret Window? An end scene like that would have elevated this movie greatly.

    The worst thing was nobody cared that Gordo died. The wife was swapping spit with her re-newfound love and the kids did not give a fuck at all. She loved him enough and apparently enough was enough.

    2012 was nothing but an excuse to show off CGI. It's no better than some cheap shitty video game that does the same. At the very least Avatar ripped off Dancing with Wolves. 2012 just ripped something that smelled very bad.

    Also, floating mountains makes more sense then a fucking ship that can stand the force of billions of gallons of water blasting it in the face but cannot function with a door open. If the Enterprise can separate at warp, then the fucking ship should be able to turn on some turbines with the fucking bay doors open.

  • Anonymous

    The story of Avatar is also ripped off a short story written in the 1950’s called ‘Call me joe’ about a man who has his mind transfered into a genetically engineered alien clone so he can infiltrate the population of large blue cat like jungle peope who live on Jupiter, as we now know Jupiter has no mass Pandora orbits a blue recolour of Jupiter.
    It still looks visualy stunning and was an enjyable story if done before, I went into it having only seen one trailer and a few screen shots.

  • Anonymous

    The story of Avatar is also ripped off a short story written in the 1950’s called ‘Call me joe’ about a man who has his mind transfered into a genetically engineered alien clone so he can infiltrate the population of large blue cat like jungle peope who live on Jupiter, as we now know Jupiter has no mass Pandora orbits a blue recolour of Jupiter.
    It still looks visualy stunning and was an enjyable story if done before, I went into it having only seen one trailer and a few screen shots.

  • Anonymous

    The story of Avatar is also ripped off a short story written in the 1950’s called ‘Call me joe’ about a man who has his mind transfered into a genetically engineered alien clone so he can infiltrate the population of large blue cat like jungle peope who live on Jupiter, as we now know Jupiter has no mass Pandora orbits a blue recolour of Jupiter.
    It still looks visualy stunning and was an enjyable story if done before, I went into it having only seen one trailer and a few screen shots.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jens-Erik-Vaaler/683310441 Jens Erik Vaaler

    I actually managed to avoid a lot of the hype surrounding this movie. Going into it I knew it was James Cameron's first movie in 12 or so years, and that it would contain massive amounts of special effects. I knew the story and the actors, but that was pretty much it. And to be honest, I was pretty blown away by it. Yes the story is contrived and your basic Hollywood story, but I personally managed to look past all that and just be swept up by this movie. District 9 managed to do the same thing, and the two movies are fairly similar as far as general plot goes, in my opinion.
    Avatar is the kind of movie that should be seen for the spectacle alone, but it's also the kind of movie that sometimes requires you to look past the clichés and sometimes derivative plot points. And for a 2 hour 40 min movie I thought the pacing was pretty good with hardly a boring moment. I've seen movies of a similar length that seem so much longer, like Judd Apatow's Funny People, and Michael Bay's Transformers movies.

    I will agree with you that it seems a lot of movie directors are going “why do we need actors, we can just animate them!” and that's a shame. CGI shouldn't be a crutch to lean on, like it has gotten in recent years. But I found the CGI in Avatar to be pretty damned good and I enjoyed it. But then again that's just me.

    As for the video itself it's good to see Miles again. You two have got a bit of a Siskel and Ebert vibe going, and with an extra reviewer you're able to play off each other in different ways. I hope we get to see more movie reviews like this.

  • bmoyn715

    I agree with you in regards to Ghost in the shell, what I disagree with, is you and most other folks Dances with wolves references, while the two films may be thematically similar, they are so in the same way that Costner's Epic is similar to “Farewell to the king,” “the Emerald Forest,” “Lawrence of Arabia” and to a certain extent “the Mission.” they all involve the main character encountering a culture alien to their own, going native and then fighting to protect it, but all the characters individual journey is different from the others as is ultimately Jake Sully's in Avatar.

  • Cthulhu07

    So Avatar is basically James Cameron's Chinese Democracy. Long in the making and when it's finally here, it sucks….

  • Anonymous

    I saw it in IMAX 3D, and then i saw it in a normal theater, and it DOES make a difference.

    You have to see this movie for what it is. It’s like with the PC game Crysis, you can’t see it as another FPS game, it is a technological demo, it will blow you away when you play it in full visual capabilities, otherwise it’s a disappointment (because it’s just another FPS with nothing special). I’ve been telling people “go see it in 3D, or just don’t see it at all”.

  • Anonymous

    I saw it in IMAX 3D, and then i saw it in a normal theater, and it DOES make a difference.

    You have to see this movie for what it is. It’s like with the PC game Crysis, you can’t see it as another FPS game, it is a technological demo, it will blow you away when you play it in full visual capabilities, otherwise it’s a disappointment (because it’s just another FPS with nothing special). I’ve been telling people “go see it in 3D, or just don’t see it at all”.

  • Anonymous

    I saw it in IMAX 3D, and then i saw it in a normal theater, and it DOES make a difference.

    You have to see this movie for what it is. It’s like with the PC game Crysis, you can’t see it as another FPS game, it is a technological demo, it will blow you away when you play it in full visual capabilities, otherwise it’s a disappointment (because it’s just another FPS with nothing special). I’ve been telling people “go see it in 3D, or just don’t see it at all”.

  • corak

    I feel like I'm the only person on earth who hasn't seen Dances With Wolves and I've only seen the NCs (both of them) review about Ferngully. Also (burned by past experiences) I stayed away from every trailer and looked at only very few reviews. So I'm curious about what I'll think about Avatar. If the presentation is anywhere near as good as everyone (in those few reviews) says it is, then I hope I can overlook the flaws in storytelling.

    By the way, the Cinema Snob really liked Avatar. Funny, how you two who share a somewhat similar taste can disagree on something that hard. And this wasn't the first time.

    Okay, so the blue guys in Avatar are called Na'vi. Huh… haven't heard about them. Are they part of the water tribe? And where does the fire nation come in?
    (SCNR ^^;)

    Anyways, great review. You and your brother should make more stuff together!

  • http://www.facebook.com/wizardofxenia Andrew Michael Brown

    This looks…pretty dull, to be honest, and it doesn't look like anything original or new in cinema. Rather than be experimental with effects, it seems James Cameron was just smearing technological mayonaise on his withered, saggy, but smooth and marble-like testicles and calling it a leap-forward in cinema. There are bigger leaps forward in cinema on youtube than in Hollywood or effects studios…

  • http://twitter.com/Chibito Daniel Martinez

    Your short summary of the plot and comparison to other movies reminded me a lot of Pocahontas.
    Great to see Miles again by the way

  • http://twitter.com/Simmins5467 Chris Hurley

    Finally Refreshing to hear about the PLOT over the Spectical. and just as I thought it was preachy BS. Thanks for the honest review.

  • Morti

    You should do more reviews with your brother, Spoony, I love it how you have different views on the movie

  • Morti

    You should do more reviews with you brother, Spoony!

  • http://twitter.com/Simmins5467 Chris Hurley

    On a side note, I enjoy this new comment system.

  • Kevin_Holsinger

    Good morning Spoony and fellow Spooners.

    1. “Silence, pussy!” Funny.
    2. I'm curious what Spoony thought about Gollum in terms of emotionally connecting to a CGI character.
    3. NO “DUNE” REFERENCES FROM SPOONY (Unobtanium = Spice)?! I thought I knew you, man. I thought I knew you. (shakes head in sadness) Well, maybe you can do it in a “5 Second Review”.
    4. I liked the “Fast and the Furious” reference, given Miles' resemblance to Vin Diesel.

  • thehenryspock

    My argument is for Twilight Zone. I have no personal stance on Avatar, and probably won't spend the 3 hours to watch it – if I do, it won't be anytime soon.. My references to Wolves and Samurai were from the vlog. I was primarily posting my thoughts as regards GITS and Matrix, as I'm a big GITS fan.

    I will, however, spend the time to watch The Mission over the break, as that's one that I somehow missed all these years. Thanks for the reminder!

    I think the issue with the Wolves reference is simply that Cameron made the 'I'm changing the world of cinema' play, and seemed to want to engender that kind of anticipation. But a resource battle bathed in blue pixels doen't sound like a 'Cinemessiah', nor will it inspire me to sit for 3 hours. :)

    In fact, any of the movies you mentioned are probably a more impacting experience, becuase they don't take place on alien worlds, they take place here. If a movie is to take place on an alien world and have lasting impact, why does it have to be a rehashed morality tale? Why can't it simply take the 'lets experience wonder' stance and just put the guns down for a bit? Is it ticket sales? Possibly… but those only matter opening weekend.

    As far as something becoming a lasting, loved classic – is Avatar capable of being that? Based on spectacle alone? Just curious… The only spectacle/action movie I can think of in the past 20 years that developed a bit of 'classic' status is Die Hard… but then, that's actually more than 20 years. Are there others? At one point I would have said Fight Club and Matrix, but I haven't watched those in years, I have however just recently watched Die Hard. And with those three movies, interestingly, Die Hard seems to be the most honest, whereas the other two are trying to be morality plays of some kind. People want to be associated with McLane's character because, though flawed, he tried to take care of business. There's no reason to become Tyler Durden or Neo, 1 because ostensibly we're not insane, and 2 because ostensibly we don't live in a digital simulation.

    (looks at TSE logo) or do we…

  • thehenryspock

    DAMMIT. This was a reply to Bmoyn, but I'm still not used to Disqus. Anywho.

  • adamfox

    Hey Spoony,

    Just so you know i absolutely love you and your content, your attitude and all… but I had to shut this video off towards the end I got so angry and frustrated, which is the first time this has ever happened. The whole time i had been wondering, when were you going to mention the 3D, since that was pretty much the whole purpose of the existence of this film. Its like saying I'm going to see the Jazz Singer when it first came out but in a good old fashioned non sound theater cos its just a gimmick, it'll never catch on . Revolutionizing 3D is the point of this films existence.

    I can absolutely grant you every complaint you had about the characters, plot and otherwise, the film takes itself way too seriously and doesn't have the depth or balance to back up its supposed easy answers, but having seen this in 3D, I can absolutely point to all the elements as pretty much selected specifically for the point of acting as a vehicle for the 3D.

    I was initially just concerned at the beginning of this review that you have just been in a bad mood since the acceptance speech malarky and wanted badly to hate this film, but in fact it turned out it was because you saw this in 2D. I am never the sort of person to rave about a film because of the effects, but the film pretty much exists for the purpose of showing to other filmmakers “Here THIS is how you do 3D. And as a result all filmmakers in the world right now are thinking, fuck this is how we will all make movies in the future”. Thats pretty much the general consensus out there.

    PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SEE THIS IN 3D. The new feeling of immersion you feel with the meticulously layered dimensionality and depth of this world will wake up parts of your brain you didn't know existed. I am not kidding. I believe that despite all its flaws n shit, the story of Avatar was chosen specifically as a vehicle to introduce the concept of seeing a new world through your eyes, because it is simple and directly connected with the notion of this new experience in the movie theater.

    Dismissing this film based on all the horrible writing and characters et al is one thing I can totally accept, but just dismissing the 3D as a gimmick before seeing it is deeply unfair and testament to not giving the film or Cameron a fair chance at impressing you or transporting you to his world. Believe me when I say that the 3D will send you spinning and you make you laugh at all those Zemeckis types that were only ever to utilize a fascinating new medium in gimmicky ways.

    Please god spoony do yourself a favor and see this in 3D, imax preferably. When the history books on film are written, this will be a significant step in the possibilities of immersing an audience into a fictional world and I think that as such an avid and well versed fan of film, you should go and see the new technological marvel that is playing in the theater, because it will change what is possible. In years to come, all blockbusters will try to emulate the utter spectacle of a world on a screen that can create such a convincing sense of movement, proportion and depth.

    Please Spoony….. please

  • http://cinfulcritiques.blogspot.com Cin Wicked

    Great review Spoony! My family wanted to see this movie recently but I had remembered you saying 2012 was a decent movie and the opening night rush for Avatar did not really warm me to seeing the 'pillar of science fiction'. I have to agree with your opinions on 2012, it was a fun movie for what it was (an apocalypse-scenario boom-fiesta) although the allegorical imagery got a bit heavy handed there.

    As for Avatar, after this review I think I'll just wait to see it on DVD if at all.

    Thanks for the reviews and have a happy holiday!

  • http://twitter.com/YigSnakeDaddy Paul K

    I really missed the fastfood parts in your movie reviews. Now bring back the burps of rage!

  • CrimsonDusk

    On another side note I hope you do more reviews with your brother Spoony, when he has the time because I like the chemistry between you two. You always agree on some points and on others you are on opposites and to see two people who are really into classy movies and trash cinema talk about recent movies is really nostalgic to me. Keep up the great work and yeah as I saw on a post of yours on Twitter Princess Mononoke is waaaaaay better than Avatar sounds from so many POV.

  • Anonymous

    Of course it’s bullshit, the aliens look like 80% man. But flying mountains are awesome. More movies should have flying mountains.

  • Anonymous

    Of course it’s bullshit, the aliens look like 80% man. But flying mountains are awesome. More movies should have flying mountains.

  • Anonymous

    Of course it’s bullshit, the aliens look like 80% man. But flying mountains are awesome. More movies should have flying mountains.

  • adamfox

    Just a few excerpts from Kenneth Turan's review in the LA Times that perfectly illustrate my point. Btw I read this after I'd already namechecked Jazz Singer so didn't just copy him:

    Think of “Avatar” as “The Jazz Singer” of 3-D filmmaking. Think of it as the most expensive and accomplished Saturday matinee movie ever made. Think of it as the ultimate James Cameron production.

    An extraordinary act of visual imagination, “Avatar” is not the first of the new generation of 3-D films, just as “Jazz Singer” was not the first time people had spoken on screen. But like the Al Jolson vehicle, it's the one that's going to energize audiences about the full potential of this medium.

    In Cameron's hands, 3-D is not the forced gimmick it's often been, but a way to create an alternate reality and insert us so completely and seamlessly into it that we feel like we've actually been there, not watched it on a screen. If taking pleasure in spectacle and adventure is one of the reasons you go to the movies, this is something you won't want to miss.

    I really hope that those of you who have decided to hold off on seeing this film til dvd cos of the vlog, will go and see it in 3D and give it a chance to say what it sets out to say as an experience.

    Love you all,

    pz

  • Tenebrous_Sage

    No, Unobtanium was ripped straight from TV tropes. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Unob

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the link. I vaguely knew about unobtanium from the reviews I’ve seen of the movie (haven’t seen it yet). But those reviews also made the movie’s plot sound Dune-ish. And I figured Spoony couldn’t resist a chance to start quoting that movie again. Seems I was wrong.

  • Tenebrous_Sage

    I still can't believe that the special element they're looking for in this movies is Unobtainium. They're not even trying at this point. It's literally ripped straight from the pages of TV Tropes.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Unob

  • bmoyn715

    To answer your first question Yes and to answer your second question no, not on spectacle alone, Based on your comments I can tell you have not seen the film and I feel that I can not have a serious conversation with you regarding it because your commentary is not based off your own experience, it is based off of second hand experiences you have read from other individuals and I am guessing from the trailer. If you see this movie and still dislike it I will at least then be able to respect your opinion as everyone has there own tastes, likes and dislikes, but until that time every you say about it is entirely conjecture.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Benjamin-Daniel/1165836223 Benjamin Daniel

    Yo Spoony, it's really too bad you didn't see the movie in 3D…this is the best use of it I've seen so far, because a lot of the movie have you contemplating Pandora and the technology immerses you a great deal…the 3D is here not used gimmicky but really sublty, if you get the chance, watch it in 3D…great visual experience…

    Now the story wasn't a let down to me, because at comicon Cameron said the story was VERY classic but the technology will be impressive, seeing it on 3D was impressive, and the movie was , sure classic story, a well entertaining blockbuster, WAY AHEAD of Indianna Jones 4, Transformers 1 and 2, GI JOE or TERMINATOR 4 etc…this movie is a good flick, and landmark technology…

    watch it in 3D, it's James Cameron Directing…True Lies was no masterpiece, the story was a remake of a shitty french movie, yet the execution was good enough to make it a flick you'd watch once in a while, popular cinema, and that's what James Cameron is good at… I can't wait to see the same technology used in Battle Angel Alita, which has the best story ever btw…

    as for the Mechs ripping off Matrix, really they were inspired by ALIENS in the first place…I actually loved the fact that these guys in avatar were pretty much the marines from Aliens…loved it… So there you … BTW here in France, I saw the movie in 3D with a 10 minutes intermission…so the experience didn't feel as Long or tiring for the eyes… so There you go, that's my opinion :)

  • adamfox

    Well said Benzaie….. well said

  • jamespinnell

    How can you bitch about the technical innovations failing to impress you, and claim, of all movies, that 2012 was more impressive, when you didn't even see it in 3D? Cameron spent 10yrs researching the technology to film the entire thing in native 3D, and it showed. There were no gimmicks here, there was no eye strain or depth issues – it worked so amazingly well. I regard your opinion highly Spoony, but that's a ridiculous claim.

    Besides the fact that it seems like, to me, that you've just stopped enjoying movies for the visceral and emotional experience that they provide, simply so you have something to rip apart that's popular. And come on, 2012? That movie was absolute garbage. Almost everything you complained about in this movie that was unjustified was in 2012. Ridiculous characters? Check. Over reliance on special effects? Check. Plot holes galore? Check.

  • Anonymous

    I notice no-one mentioning the racism. The Na’vi aren’t just a culture that deserves respect, like in Dances With Wolves; the film and tie-ins keep hitting us over the head with how they are OBJECTIVELY BETTER for purely biological reasons. The manual even comes out and says it in almost those exact words. The weirdest part is how they try to pull this without ever giving them a real culture.

    At least Dances With Wolves and The Last Samurai showed that they had an actual culture on top of their “more natural” or “closer to nature” lifestyle. The Na’vi live close to nature, resent other cultures infringing on their territory, and… that’s it. They tell no stories and make no art other than a few items of personal jewelry, The religion doesn’t count, since it’s a biological imperative shared by every other species on Pandora with no real spirituality to it. They’re basically the embodiment of the old colonialist idea of a tribe of mindless savages, which rather undermines the whole moral of cultural acceptance.

    Then you get the whole problem of the white guy instantly taking up control of the culture, which is supposed to be uplifting instead of saying they really aren’t as good as white men, which is what it actually says..

  • bmoyn715

    Its actually an engineering term, nice to see that tropes has got there own definition too though

  • thehenryspock

    As I said, I wasn't meaning to start a discussion about Avatar. I was more interested in GITS vs. the Matrix. As far as Avatar is concerned, it looks like Apocalypto in space, and the conversation you and I have about it will have to wait indefinitely while I stay immersed in the real world, as I see roughly 2 movies every year.

  • adamfox

    Watching Avatar in 2D is like playing Mario 64 for the first time…… BLINDFOLDED!

  • jamespinnell

    I get people's aversion to watching movies in 3D – the ones that came out during the 80s and 90s were absolutely dreadful. The paper, blue/red glasses were useless and uncomfortable, the effects were limited to a few scenes and most of the movie was largely 2D. This has changed significantly in the past 4 years.

    Avatar was the first nu-3D (or RealD) movie I had seen, and it's obvious how far the technology had come. After about 15 minutes, I forgot I was even wearing the glasses (which were not uncomfortable, or distracting) and the effects on screen were primarily used for depth and immersion, with fantastic results.

    I know I sound like a fanboy, but this is from someone who wasn't even going to see it. I'm glad I did. It's an enormous achievement by Cameron and worth the quarter billion it cost to produce.

  • adamfox

    Um Impudentlnfidel……

    a) This is science fiction, whats wrong with a race being genetically/biologically superior to humans…. like in Alien, Ash saying it is a perfect organism.

    b) resent other cultures infringing on their territory? by inviting these aliens in to pass some tests and become one of the tribe?

    c) Seriously, you've got to be digging deep to come out of Avatar feeling offended by racism towards white males. Its fucking 'pulp' fiction masquerading as paper thin and very vaguely spread spiritual messaging acting as a vehicle for mind blowing 3D immersion. Reminds me of that episode of Chappelle Show where he shows a clip of himself at a talk show where some old white guy is calling out black people for 'forcing him' etc. etc. Just…… seriously?

  • Anonymous

    Hey there spoony i am a Huge fan of yours after a friend showed me your site i disagree and agree with some of your views but i enjoy them all i just wanted to say i agree with the racial thing you where talking about. Other then the fact that i do not feel bad about it i have white,Spanish,china’s.japans and black friends but i am sorry God damn it why are we being told to feel bad for some thing a large number of us WHERE NOT ALIVE FOR and if we where we where to young to remember. also i am a huge fan of anime so i don’t mind cgi if its used right this movie seems interesting i will try and watch it but i do have to say if you wanna make some thing cgi nearly the hole movie why not just make an anime or cartoon? sure some cgi can be use full for ships,some races of alien or what not but by no means should you use it on nearly every thing. But i have seen some good movies as such and i can still connect with the chars be cause they are just that characters there all fiction sure real actors need more credit if they do there own stuff or even if not it is not easy but still look at it as if the char where real or some thing. But for the most part i understand what you where saying and i Agree with it great view hope to see many more ^_^

  • adamfox

    Totally agree. I haven't bothered going to see Bloody Valentine, Final Destination or Zemeckis 3D flicks because I considered it a total gimmick. I WAS one of those people until yesterday. Avatar changed my mind and I was completely skeptical until about 30 minutes into the film when my brain surrendered.

  • wrestleswhales

    I'd have to agree with spoony on this one. I saw it first day it came out (not 3d mind you) and parts of the movie I found to be laugh out loud over the top. It bothered me how bland it was for most of the movie :S. I didn't into the movie at all, every character here gave a meh performance. And some of the characters (like the girl pilot) basically just half way went “YEAH, FOR THE SMURFS!”. Overall though I go to a movie for not the best visuals but for a interesting story and some believable performances. I really went into the theatre wanting to like it but in the end it was just a pile of meh.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Georg-Veramme/719603017 Georg Veramme

    Lanipator also went on about the pure bad ass-ness of the colonel.
    When i'll see this film with my GF and her family, being dragged there really, i'm gonna look forward to the colonel.
    …..god i want to see 'Aliens' again….

  • bmoyn715

    your loss then

  • Ictiv

    I guess what we can learn from this movie is: A) History repeats it self. And B) Success does not.

    (BTW: I don't see the original Dances With Wolves as a “racism is bad” kind of movie, but a way of saying that some people can see past differences and some can't or don't want, since its easier.)

  • adamfox

    Again RE: below concerning the 3D and references to watching Jazz Singer with earmuffs on… not your fault but you have missed the intended theater experience…. which includes being extremely entertained in a way never before

  • thehenryspock

    That's not a generalization, that's a very specific statement based on the look of the movie, and having seen Apocalypto, thatwas the first thing I thought when I saw this trailer. Judging by what the story is about, it doesn't change that sentiment. I may see it today though, if there's a local theatre that has it in 3d. I'm not used to not having final assignments due, and if the Studio Movie Grille has it, that might be a fun afternoon.

    It would only be my loss if it meant this was the only topic on which we ever conversed.

  • ImpudentInfidel

    I would not have any problem with it except that it keeps hammering us over the head with how we're supposed to feel, and then does it in a way that goes completely in the other direction.

    A) Vulcans are objectively better than humans in bith body and mind, but they seem like characters instead of a collection of stereotypes so it doesn't matter (Enterprise-era Vulcans don't count for this, they got better by the end of the run). They don't beat you over the head with it and refuse to even trade with you because of it. It wouldn't be a problem in any story that didn't have acceptance of other cultures as it's main theme. The movie plays cultural arrogance as horrible for humans but justified in the Na'vi. Seriously, their attitudes toward each other are almost identical and we are meant to side with the Na'vi.

    B) Resenting the intrusion wasn't a complaint, anyone would. In fact they are more easy going than I would be as you pointed out. My complaint was that it represented most of their culture as seen in the movie.

    C) I was saying it was racist IN FAVOR OF white males. Seriously, in three months he becomes their greatest warrior and leads all the tribes on the continent, then hooks up with the socially highest woman (is it “women” or “females” in this culture? they seem to switch) by being a better Na'vi than any of the people who actually grew up in that culture.

    My problem is that it botches the message so thoroughly, not the message itself. If they had stopped rubbing our noses in it I could have enjoyed it as mindless, explosion heavy popcorn entertainment. I didn't think the effects were much better than current generation video games personally, but whatever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Gifford/500766839 Paul Gifford

    I'm no fan of CGI either. James Rolfe had a video about T2 and described the T-1000 as GCI done right and I agree. District 9 did CGI well too. The original star wars still looks amazing and much more realistic than the later trilogy. Though models aren't perfect, their real, physical objects. The main problem with CGI is the cartoonish feel. Getting the lighting and detailed texture indistinguishable from real life has never been done in a movie. Perhaps Cameron should have waited another 15 years for technology to further catch up.

  • Fox_Silent_K

    I came up with a lot of the same points on my outlook which I posted up in the TGWTG blogs.

  • adamfox

    Gotcha…. fair enough. I agree with all of that. Just curious did you see it in 3D. I found the film itself ruined a large degree by the 15-20 minutes of heavy speeches at the end of the second act, taking the suggested spirituality way too far into a place where humor can't touch….. Jake becoming a superior tactical Na'avi to them I think makes sense since he is a marine, understands there strategies and see's ways to exploit themselves strategically that they would never have considered relevant (such as capturing the giant dragon).

    I certainly wouldn't call it a great film. But my filmmaker side was completely occupied experiencing the 3D and the possibilities of immersion in the future of cinema. This is undoubtedly the reason Avatar was created and why it will be remembered.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matt-Moseley/100000330388147 Matt Moseley

    i dont know if you like south park, but the episode “dances with smurfs” bashes avatar pretty good

  • http://twitter.com/KatKaleen KatKaleen

    When I first saw the trailer it was already pretty clear where the plot was going. And seeing the alien woman… I couldn´t help thinking of Disney´s Pocahontas. And apparently, I wasn´t too far off with that thought.
    You two summed it up very well. Some people will like it, but others will feel lectured.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Damian-Titus/100000166895707 Damian Titus

    I havent seen the movie yet, but I didnt believe the hype at all, and i think that will help me to like it in the long run. I will most likely go see it in the theater some day. I would also like to comment that Spoonys brother is really a good counter point to the more cynicle spoony. Maybe include him in more videos, he was entertaining. Great review.

  • http://twitter.com/madcapscience Adam Yakaboski

    And TV Tropes ripped that off from the engineering field. Unobtanium is a term meant to represent a material that has all the ideal characteristics that you would need for a specific project. The joke is that rarely does that material exist hence the name unobtanium.

  • calibandonflamingo

    no opinions about the movie itself but I really liked this sort of Siskel and Ebert format. I always felt that you're a little hard on things Spoony and your brother seems a little more forgiving, the dynamic is pretty good. Plus you're both funny and well versed…you should do this more often…like whenever you do one of these movie review vlogs.

  • http://twitter.com/nfm1337 Jonas Håkansson

    That's two hot studs! I wouldn't mind taking a swim in that gene pool. ;)

    But regarding Avatar… Aren't you guys overthinking it a bit? If you asked Cameron about the film he might claim that it's deep, meaningful, philosophical or whatever. But to me, it was nothing but an orgy of awesome special effects and big bad robots at war with sexy blue cat people. Not all movies are meant to be enjoyed using your brain. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

  • johnnyfog

    Christ, Spoony. I know it's been a rough couple of weeks, but you wanna go easier on Miles next time?? We want him to do MORE team-ups, not get scared away by your snarky remarks.

  • johnnyfog

    Jesus, Spoony! I know it's been a rough couple of weeks, but you wanna go easier on Miles next time? I want him to do MORE team up reviews, not get scared away by your snarky remarks.

  • Shyvan

    I'm sorry, but this just isn't fair. You guys seem more in love with yourselves about hating it than actually caring about giving the movie the credit you both know it deserves.

    Nearly every movie that releases is a rehash of something else. Avatar is a landmark in film-making and one of the greatest movies created. Every aspect of the film is spot-on, the cinematography, choreography, audio, visuals, acting, etc. I usually agree with nearly every review you make, so I'm very disappointed that you've decided to ignore nearly every great thing about this movie The story is even strong, despite the fact that it's a story already told more than once or twice or even three times. I could spew out 40 films that have nearly the same plot. I don't care. It's a wonderful story and it works for this film.

  • masterinsan0

    I got pissed off at Avatar when my fucking Coke Zero cans started advertising it to me.

    Still, though, I think you went into this movie trying to hate it, Spoony. That's not to say that most of your points aren't valid, because they are. But some of your points, like the floating mountains, were just nitpicking.

    I definitely got the “anti-Human” vibe from it, though. I agree, I'm damn tired of filmmakers saying “humans suck because we're so awful”. It's inherently hypocritical, preachy, and annoying.

  • GunarmDyne

    Slightly off-topic, but how many people tell you that they get the “Leave the Bronx!” reference on your shirt?

  • dennett316

    I really don't get the “you've got to see it in 3D” comments, they completely miss the point. Is the story 3D? Are likeable characters enhanced by 3D? Cameron himself said that the movie had to work in both 2D and 3D otherwise there was no point – not every screen can handle 3D after all.
    I cannot shake that 3D is a gimmick designed to reel people in and paper over the cracks. “It's more immersive”, bullshit! I've been perfectly immersed in great movies for years without the need of a greater depth of field, again, what in the hell does extra depth of field add to the movie going experience? Would the Godfather movies be more classic if they were in 3D? Of course not.
    Derivative stories are not always bad, but to defend the movie solely on a gimmicky, albeit impressive, technique is very short sighted and lends more ammunition to the idea that audiences will lap anything up at the cinema so long as it looks great and provides an “experience”.
    3D does not make Avatar better, the movie is the same, the performances are the same and the story is the same, 3D only hides the obvious flaws by making audiences go WOW! Oh, and to compare 3D with the advent of sound…that is simply the stupidest thing I've ever read. Sound adds far more to the movie-going experience than an increase of the depth of field – it can change the meaning of any given scene, add emotional heft, make a scene more thrilling or dynamic/sombre and respectful, in short soound is as important as the image. The gimmick of 3D is not in the same league.

  • thehivemind33

    About the only thing I liked and had liked was the fact that Neville Page was doing the art. He is my hero. :) He has yet to put up his concept art so I haven't seen his awesome work yet. :( Oh well. I just hope that USB hair thing was not his idea…if it was I will have to blindly defend him. He is just that awesome. XD
    Good to see your brother on the screen once again! I wish me and my brother could sit down for five minutes without getting at eachother's throats.

  • Shyvan

    3D does make Avatar better, and he revolutionizes the use of 3D in this film. So until you see it in 3D you can't claim it's the exact same experience as seeing it in 2D. It isn't.

    • dennett316

      I didn’t say it was the same experience, I said it adds a WOW factor that apparently blinds people to criticism of the film. I ask again, how does 3D make it better? You can’t say ‘It just does’ and leave it at that. Are the action scenes improved by greater depth of field? What about dialogue heavy scenes, are they improved? Are the themes presented given more weight by 3D?
      Have you seen it in 2D? How do you know the effect will be lessened?

      Enough of my sarcastic questions…fact is, 3D is no more immersive than 2D because it is non-interactive. Cameron, I’m sure uses 3D much better than the hacks who made Final Destination 4, that doesn’t make it less of a gimmick. Most of the CGI on the other hand looks great, I like the advances in facial animation this movie brings. But 3D? Meh!

    • dennett316

      I didn’t say it was the same experience, I said it adds a WOW factor that apparently blinds people to criticism of the film. I ask again, how does 3D make it better? You can’t say ‘It just does’ and leave it at that. Are the action scenes improved by greater depth of field? What about dialogue heavy scenes, are they improved? Are the themes presented given more weight by 3D?
      Have you seen it in 2D? How do you know the effect will be lessened?

      Enough of my sarcastic questions…fact is, 3D is no more immersive than 2D because it is non-interactive. Cameron, I’m sure uses 3D much better than the hacks who made Final Destination 4, that doesn’t make it less of a gimmick. Most of the CGI on the other hand looks great, I like the advances in facial animation this movie brings. But 3D? Meh!

  • http://www.facebook.com/marc.aces Marc Aces

    It really surprises how neither of you too brought up the sex scene. That's the only thing I'm going to remember of this movie. Is Sam Worthington, banging a 9 ft tall smurf in his avatar. He was that quick too jump species in under 3 months. While I do give him a point for being interested on how these natives do it. (I wonder where her USB PORT is so he can plug his pony tail into it, cause I didn't really see none of those Navi packing anything in them loin cloths.

    It was just creepy. Not too mention the end when Neyitri saves Sully at the end, and she says the guy who she just screwed not in his avatar. An then there all into it, and she is just towering over him. I personally thought they were going to do it right there. Cripple or not.

  • Z3rg

    Loved the review!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Shanley/100000496636444 Andrew Shanley

    LOVE This site! You guys should do a regular segment called “The Spoony Brothers”!!

  • http://www.charlesgomes.tumblr.com CharlesFernando

    Avatar is alien pocahontas

  • Anonymous

    I saw it, and enjoyed it, but it was also a big let down, I expected more than just “Dances with wolves in space”. Worth seeing only once.

    I have many problems with this film…

    In many a scene, we clearly see the aliens are getting their asses handed to them, their arrows cant damage the vehicles, they cant fight against gas or napalm, and they can get gunned down real fast when going one on one against marines with automatic weapons.

    Then just because the plot says so, gas is never used again, napalm is never used again, and the guns just become ineffective. I’m sorry but I have to call bullshit on this. If you have weapons that you know work, why would you not be using them?

    However thats just scratching the surface…

    How much does it cost to geneticaly engineer an avatar, i’m going to guess its alot, and then you need all the brain interfacing machienery yet more cots, I also guess it takes a long time to grow one (i forget if the time was discused in the movie) so more costs again, the scientists also have to undergo years of training lets just add that to the bill. So we have a situation that requires a large amout and continual funding over a long period of time, with no certainty of achiving any result. Why would the corperation have ever even considered this as an option? And why is it that after all this investment, they now only have 3 months to get a result? Its just so incoherant.

    And yet thats not the end of the problems. the same amount of time and money could be better spent on more troops, more equipment and that would be then end of it.

    But the final nail in the cofin for me, that just broke the suspension of disbelief had to be the avatar technology itself. The whole plot revolves around the humans equipment not working in certain areas of the world, due to the flux, or whatever the energy is supposed to be. This plays havoc with their radar, targeting and heads up displays.

    Now bearing all that in mind, how are the scientists connecting their human counter part with their avatars, we see that they are using human technology here, and the avatars are operating in high flux areas, so why is their connection not effected? this point is just begging to be explained, and just like the floating mountains, it is not even touched upon.

    Then there is the happy ending, where the humans retreat, and the natives live happily ever after. Um, No!

    What happens is that after a few years of proper planning, the humans return, in greater number and burn the hell out of them from orbit, there is no defense against this, and they will all be destroyed, This is something our hero would know, they may win the first battle, yet they will loose the war. So why even encourace the needless loss of life? Surely what would follow would be far worse for the natives, and the humans would be less willing to bargain with them.

  • Shyvan

    Thanks, we had no idea it shared a similar story to that film.

  • witchapparatus

    When I saw this movie, I was foaming at the MOUTH in the waiting for your review of it. I saw it with my mother, who isn't a fantasy fan, and she loved it. I was terribly horribly depressed. The movie is vapid eye candy. No plot. No characters. And the ideas that were interesteing (a whole planet as a giant neural network? Yes please!) are so stunted and badly mixed with mysticisim it came out as nothing short of childish. I'm glad to hear you two talk. For a while there, I thought I was the only person who didn't like the movie. It's like a hot blonde in a coma.

  • Anonymous

    …Wait, is the stuff seriously called ‘Unobtanium’? I saw that somewhere and thought it was a joke. UNOBTAIN-IUM? That’s weak.

  • http://twitter.com/konizitaet Mrs. Wurst

    I bet 90% of the comments so far say that “you're overthinking this, it's not Citizen Kane” or “YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS IN 3D.”

    I really liked this review. You have great chemistry (Not that kind of chemistry). I like both the diplomatic reserved way your brother thinks about this film and your passionate hate for it. It was very informative and you have convinced me not to see it.
    I love eye candy just not that kind of eye candy. I love Kubrick and Ghibli films because they are pretty, I love so called 'pretentious hipster bullshit' because it is pretty, but the Avatar trailer didn't do anything for me. It reminded me of the new Star Wars films and those were terrible. I just don't enjoy looking at shiny CGI things for two and a half hours and I easily hate something mediocre with a passion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Albert-Sautter/1528324799 Albert Sautter

    Amen on the preachiness of white guilt in movies.

  • punchultimate

    Ok. In every interview with James Cameron, he said that he wanted to show familiar themes and a familiar story in a new and innovative way. He succeeded on every level with this film. It was amazing and no one will convince me otherwise. OF COURSE it was allegorical to the Native Americans. It was SUPPOSED to be. I really loved this movie. I want to see it again. I also own Dances with Wolves, another great movie, and while these two are similar they are different enough to where Avatar is definitely its own movie. I can't stand how snobby some people will be. I'd like someone to tell me a better movie that came out this year than Avatar.

    • Anonymous

      I agree dude Completely dude,

  • Anonymous

    I don’t get any ‘white guilt’ watching avatar. I feel that the bits you were insulted by were just tools to tell a story. I doubt James Cameron is weeping every night because he feels that the white man has done so many terrible things; he’s no different to you and I. The obvious messages (oil etc) are obvious problems.

    As for the colonel, he was a Mercenary. He liked killing. He’s meant to be a total twonk. He’s hired because he is good at his job which was killing. Hammy? Yes, but still good. It was clearly meant to be hammy! I would liek to think James Cameron or any of his staff are aware enough to see that.

    I share a lot of your problems, but I still loved it. Like all science fiction, it relied on your suspension of disbelief entirely. The reason why you probably didn’t like it Spoony is because you like things explained – like the linking of the nervous systems – how the hell did they evolve like that? You have said before you like your science fiction or fantasy explained and practical.

  • punchultimate

    i completely agree with you. i think you and i are alone on liking this movie on this website. This movie was great, and I'm gonna see it again soon.

  • Anonymous

    I agree with most of the points, yet ecology, if you would have seen enough documentaries about possible ecology on other planets; you would understand that it may not look like anything we are used to see. I agree with the flaws, yet they didn’t piss me of that much maybe because I haven’t seen “Dance With The Wolfs”. The colonel, mechs and space shuttles were cool.
    I sat in a theater and those 3 hours weren’t painful and it was a wonder to watch.
    8/10 mildly impressed.

  • punchultimate

    this is obviously just my opinion, but i thought the CGI was near flawless in this film. Definitely the best I've seen. Just saying.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Shanley/100000496636444 Andrew Shanley

    Saw the movie had a couple of things to add..

    On the CGI Thing. I agree I remember seeing Star Wars in the theater, and all those sci fi movies where they used real model effects and they looked bad ass. I agree that CGI has been more of a bad thing than a good thing, but I'm sorry to say that you have to get over it. CGI is here to stay, I don't like it, you certainly don't like it, what are you going to do about it? We've past the point of no return, a whole generation of movie goers aren't going to remember seeing movies such as Empire Strikes Back or Ghostbusters or a similar movie where effects were “Real” Like the chopper scene in “Blue Thunder” where the helecopters were chasing each other over LA. Sadly, these kinds of movies are never going to be made again. Why? Becuase it's easier to acomplish it in a computer rather than do it in real life. The ability to get the same camera angles is close to nearly impossible to do so. Something I agree with you on, but you have to let it go in certain things. Lord of the Rings is a good example of this.

    As for the “Preachy” aspect of this film, yes we've seen it before. But, we don't hear complaints about movies that deal with the holocaust. People don't start saying “Oh great, another preachy holocaust movie!” Now, it parellels human history, and yes it has happened before, but think about it. Those who don't learn from their history repeat it. Oppression is bad, torerance is good…Yadda yadda yadda

    However, one could say that Cameron created the Mech suit idea when he did Aliens. “Where do you want it?” “Bay 12 please…”

    Loved the Col. He was great. Loved the story even if it was repetitive.

    You guy should really do more of this! “The Spoony Brothers”!!!

    LOve this site, keep up the good work.

  • punchultimate

    oh and by the by, the whole major theme of the movie was ANTI-WAR, not anti-American. I think we can all agree though that the cowboys/spanish/any other conquerors did some screwed up stuff to the indigenous populations of the world. Its called a theme, get over it.

  • punchultimate

    there is no way this is like fern gully

  • http://www.aj-scruffles.co.uk/magazine/ AJ Scruffles

    Entertaining review but It felt like you had an odd perspective on the film.

    -I’ve never seen any credible hype about the story. It’s not meant to have a ground breaking story, I don’t think anyone assumed it would have a good story, it’s mainstream, it can’t really be genuinely interesting SciFi. It was always and only about the effects.

    – Complaining about CGI seems faintly bonkers to me – the point was that this would ‘change the game’ for computer effects/3D and make CGI characters plausible visually and in terms of acting (Although Gollem from LOTR was already a breakthrough of sorts). The question is whether it does this or not. Not it seems.

    – I can understand you complaining about the vapidity of the message but at the same time this is a big budget middle-of-the-road hollywood movie that is critical of america in a quite real and contemporary way. That’s pretty rare and why a lot of people are suprised by it. It’s not really about ancestral guilt, that’s pretty gentle stuff, this is a little different. Significance in context is not really the most interesting but still…

    It’s almost as if we’d been hearing about totally different movies.

    Anyhow, nice video, really liked double act, definetly gives an edge to reviews of the bigger movies.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Paul-Gifford/500766839 Paul Gifford

    The plot of Avatar reminds me of the Star Trek Voyager episode “Nemesis”. I think this movie would have been better served if it followed that plot more exactly, though much less PC.

  • Kirzan

    Nice review, now I know what to expect when I see it. To be honest I didn't get caught in the hype wave of this movie, trailer looked good, didn't seem to spoil anything (or everything like most trailers *cough* Quarantine *cough*) so I'm not really expecting much. To me it just looks like the new CGI movie… that CGI movie that comes out once a decade and I'm cool with that.

    Of course I (like anybody else should) knew that Noah would be ranting about it. People don't get all angry at him cause he doesn't like something you like. You cannot just watch a review on this site and expect Noah to praise it, if it's on this site, it's getting burned at the stake… cause that's what he does. So please don't say things like: “Ohhhh you're just ranting” YES, HE IS! It's like saying: “Ohhhh please don't do funny things” to a clown.

    This is entertainment, if you don't like it, don't watch it. The videos ALWAYS last from 20 to 40 minutes, and it's ALWAYS obvious you know what the review will be like from the first minute. So if you don't like that first minute, don't watch the 29 other minutes, simple as that.

    Good job Noah at entertaining people. Oh! and please bring your bro on more often, he's awesome.

  • Kirzan

    I gotta say I don't expect much of this movie, it's just another CGI movie that comes out once in a long while. This review gave me a good idea of what to expect.

    Oh and to the people being bitchy about the attitude and OPINIONS in the review… they're opinions. If you didn't know right off the bat that Noah would burn Avatar at the stake well watch more of his work, that's what he does.

    Great job Noah and bro, you guys are awesome! Make more of those argumentative reviews with your brother it's really cool when your opinions differ!

    -Mike

  • Anonymous

    The 3D really just added depth to what was on screen. It wasn’t like the cheap scare, shit coming out at you 3D. If you could watch it in 3D, I would definitely reccomend it honestly. The whole nature stuff at the beginning was helped by the 3D. I enjoyed the 3D. I guess I’m just a bit more forgiving with the movie than you are, Spoony. The plot and writing did suck (can’t believe you all didn’t bring up the horribly awkward love scene haha), but in my opinion, the movie was damn pretty (and I really feel bad for giving the movie a pass for that). Not an award-worthy movie (besides visual effects, and maaaaaaaybe Zoe Saldana in my opinion), but still a worthwhile movie. I see your points on it, but I guess I can forgive it more. I usually agree with you a lot (except your opinion of 2012, I fucking hated that movie), I agreed more with your brother on this one. Love your site, love your videos, I think your brother should be on every movie reaction, cuz honestly this one and the Transformers 2 reaction are 2 of my favorite vids on the site. Thanks for putting your opinions out guys!

  • Dr_Stromphe

    From the first moment I saw the trailer I thought it looked like, well…. a furry film. But I thought then “Whatever, you know, it could be ok, even though when I see giant, virile, half-naked blue cat people running around being persecuted by white people I have to wonder.” Then I caught wind of the plot, and, this was my basic theory I threw at a friend a few days ago:

    Think about it, the main, crippled guy (paralleling the crippling social awkwardness shared by many furries) goes into this society of weird anthropomorphic blue cat people (joining the fandom because it gives him a social outlet) in disguise (fursuit) and finds it's the place he belongs (finding that everyone is very accepting of him because furries are mostly all social outcasts and support each other) and that he can now walk (once again, he is no longer socially crippled), gets busy with one of the other cat people (IN FURSUIT I might add), and then all the blue cat people get persecuted (or should I say, fursecuted?) in order to get the “unobtainium” which is clearly “lulz” which can be gleaned from furry fandom.

    Clearly I know this was not Cameron's intention but that's all I can think while watching it.

    I found it interesting when your bro brought up District 9, another movie about alien-human relations wherein a human transforms into an alien, humans suck and there is a ton of CGI. But I can't help but think that the disconnect there is that Avatar seems massively “epic” in scale of conflict, while D9 had this sort of personal intimacy that comes with the vulnerability of the leads and the awesome moral ambiguity and psychological impact of oppression on the aliens in that was far more interesting to watch. Because of the black-and-white morality of Avatar, it gives it an immature feeling that, when coupled with the blue cat people who can plug their hair into trees and shit, makes you wonder if Cameron came up with this story not ten years ago but 43 at age 12 and never changed the moral structure.

    Most people are probably saying shit like “It's just sci-fi, Spoony! What do you expect? lol” but as a huge fan of sci-fi I have to just say NO. We live in a world where science fiction films are often actually very good, and this is a director that has made good sci-fi in the past… look at the Terminator films. Clearly, Terminator “isn't Citizen Cane”, to reference the excuse many make for bad movies (why do people always say this? “Were you expecting Citizen Cane?” Don't be stupid, of course not) but it's still an amazing movie. It builds tension and releases perfectly, and visually the stop-motion and puppetry look amazing. Same goes with Judgment Day, which utilized CGI and MADE IT WORK.

    On the topic of CGI, I think it's most useful in creating stuff that could never exist on a physical plane, and that's my problem with the Na'vi… they look too much like humans! Give me a break. I'm not going to pretend I don't have a massive boner for awesome special effects, but if the whole movie is done in the same style, well, doesn't that sort of take the “special” out of “special effects”? Now they're just “standard movie stuff.” Which is bullshit.

    As for the WHITE GUILT stuff, I think films like this are dangerous. Why is that? We really do, as Americans, learn most of what we know, in a tacit way, from cinema. And when a movie that portrays a white person going in, living with a “minority” and falling in love with their purity and majesty or whatever you want to call it, only to have another contingent of honkeys to come in and destroy everything and everyone and basically makes you look at how RACIST you are for never doing anything about it, despite the fact that it probably all happened before you were born, or in space, etc, we get a different view of the same stereotype. These movies impose this stereotype that minorities are really all a bunch of helpless, fragile people who need to be treated like babies because they can't take care of themselves without a “good” white person around to protect them from the “bad” white person. It makes us, modern white people who were not involved in slavery or the killings of native peoples, feel better even though we call it “White Guilt.” White Guilt is basically a product of vanity, particularly in the cinematic sense. It's dangerous to make white guilt films, because they still perpetuate some retarded sense of white superiority. It's just like anytime a movie invents a “strong female character” who later somehow loses her strength and needs to be saved by a dude perpetuates the concepts of women being weak at their core and needing a man to protect them.

    But anyway, good review, my good Spoony, I enjoy when your brother is one; whether you guys agree or disagree, it's always nice when you mix it up a bit, and Miles has such a more… gentle take, compared to your snarkiness, which makes for an interesting contrast.

  • Anonymous

    I’m with Spoony on this one. Only because it was built up as this amazing achievement and ground breaking moment in cinematic history. But thats not what it was. It was Bash Bush Movie #237. Did it really take 12 years and $250 million to say George W. Bush sucks?
    As for “you have got to see this in 3D”. If I saw Troll 2 in 3D would it make it any better of a movie? No, it would just be a better looking piece of crap.

    • Anonymous

      Are you simply going to dislike a movie because it was built up? Like a movie if you like it and dislike it if you dislike and not because of anything to do with hype.

  • SethTheXenocide

    One point I have to bring up: When it comes time for the mulleted redneck inbred jokes, why does everyone use Alabama? Not saying there AREN'T any here (they're everywhere. The south isn't a magically fenced in area where the rednecks can't spread), but come on. Someone say Georgia or Mississippi for once. Maybe Alabama just rolls off the tongue better…

  • http://twitter.com/Gerkuman J. Adams

    A dancing with wolves clone, oh dear. If I wanted that, I'd watch the original. Actually, I do wanna watch Dancing With Wolves again, it was a good movie, even if it did have Kev Costner in it. (Ok, I'll be fair, he wasn't that bad then).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=851604798 facebook-851604798

    This was interesting you got some chemistry here… Spoony the raving and Spoonys brother the “well it wasnt that bad”

    I loved this… You always have some interesting viewpoints.

  • FowderSoap

    Good review, Spoony! More and more people are getting sick of this retarded, liberal, white-guilt crap. How about a movie about genocide against whites in Africa, or the Jewish role in the leadership of the Soviet Union?

    And my rifle also needs a chrome dildo.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Cole/611205878 Alexander Cole

      Give me one example of genocide against whites. Really, I’d love to see this. Given the amount of damage that’s been done by Europe and the West in an attempt to steamrolller other cultures to mirror thier ideas, the billions of lives that have been lost over the centuries, due to events like the Trail of Tears, Slavery, ect I really can’t see one manner in which caucasoidal peoples have been persecuted. SO that’s my challenge, give me one good example and i’ll verify it and then give MY two cents

      -Alex

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=851604798 facebook-851604798

    Also I think the flying mountains is stolen from World Of Warcraft… If you go to Outland in Burning Crusade you will see a ton of flying mountains, its something to do with that Outland is a plane torn apart by magic… But it doesnt make any sense in Avatar, I think its just a matter of suspending your disbelief and take the flying mountains as a….. “well thats a sight” thing. But I honestly thought there was more to Avatar than what youve touched upon… I havent seen it and after hearing you two talk I probably wont…. I think its bad taste to do the whole America Sucks Maaan so straightforward as its apparently done in Avatar… I mean when the fuck did the movie industry choose to completely forget the word subtlety… but then again the American blockbuster has almost always been lame as hell… with a few exceptions.. I think its sad how modern directors cater to the lowest common denominator (hope I spelled that right) instead of going “f that” and make smart movies.. Which is why I love a guy like David Lynch and Danish Lars Von Trier.. Von Trier makes smart movies that arent as weird as Lynch and when asked about what the meaning is he just gets in your face, like last he was asked about Antichrist he said “its the hand of god, Im the best director in the world” he is as cocky as Michael Bay but he makes MOVIES not entertainment for the masses….

    Wooooooow that was a friggin novel…. Cheers

  • thegodemperor

    I kinda agree with you for the most part, but The Last Samurai had NOTHING to do with the “white man coming to bother the godless heathens.” It should never have had Tom Cruise or the other white guy from America. I mean, true there were Americans there helping to train the Japanese Military in that time, I believe, but that movie was more geared toward the Japanese and reminding them of their heritage and such things. It's more of an “old way vs the new” movie too than a “imperial white man coming in and getting in on the natives” movie. It really never should have had Tom Cruise or his character, but then it wouldn't have sold as well. But, at least that character wasn't bad for the movie. It does allow for the American Audience to come in and see from what would probably be their perspective too (somewhat).

    So ya, my only really big disagreement with your comparison of Avatar to other movies. Though your brother is dead on, it's fucking Dances With Wolves lol.

  • thegodemperor

    God damn it, fucking login thing made me lose what I said. Anyways, I was saying I agree with everything you said except you comparing it to The Last Samurai. The Last Samurai wasn't really an “Imperialist Whities coming into suppress the natives,” It was a movie about “The Old vs The New.” In fact, you could remove Tom Cruise's character and tell it from another person's in the Samurai Society and get the same message. The only problem then is that it wouldn't have sold as well in America and that's a big no no for Hollywood lol. To be fair though, Tom Cruise and his character didn't detract from the movie and its message and did give a good character for Americans to “Relate to” and imagine how they'd react to the stuff too through him.

    So ya, I agree with everything else, this movie is Dances With Wolves and has some ridiculous thing, but I'm a little easier on it. It's not a bad movie to watch, it's just not as “original and grand” as they claimed.

  • Anonymous

    I have to agree with Spoony, its the same reason why I hated District 9

  • http://www.facebook.com/Chenata Sara Alexandria Jandolenko

    Hmm, I guess I shouldn't watch things like this before I see movies. Granted I will still go see it, but you guys have made me think twice about it. I like how the two of you bounce off each other. Good stuff, Most enjoyable.

  • SoyKeith

    Think about the delivery people! The film may not have had the most amazing plot line. It did however display and convey emotions one would expect. Everyone tries to think of the commentary displayed in the film and less of how it was portrayed.

  • http://cassave.deviantart.com/ Cassavius

    They could've made a good fantasy movie out of it, without being preachy. But instead they made Dances with Smurfs…

  • powerbar

    spoony i respect you're opinion and i was waiting for your words on avatar since i saw it, but i disagree.
    i loved the movie, the story is simple and not the most original, but that was not the high point, it was the technology and if anyone says it was not innovative, then you have no sense of the visual effects that are out there. yes 2012 was awesome, but it was not human (or something) emotion, nor was it facial expression, nor even skin detail, not to mention making a entire new planet. and yes it was environmentalist but its not stereotypical spoony, and if this is stereotypical, and its not to make you fell bad about the natives or the black people, because it focus on the damage we do the planet and the forest and crap like that.
    ho i keep reading it was slow, but Avatar is going to be a trilogy, so the first movie is to dish out the characters, (Lord of the rings, the first one, was boring as hell and the other two kick major ass), to be 100% honest i don't like James Cameron that much, and i was with some low expectation when i walked into the movie theater, and i liked the movie a lot.
    Hey! Kudos for not saying that they were trying to make the Na'Vi sexy,,, every time i read that i go on a murderous rampage. the last time i killed to guys a little girl and a puppy…why do people only think of sexy and hot when there is a female on screen? do people think they wanted to make Troll Fionna from shrek hot?? ?? so Kudos Bard Spoony for not saying anything like that.
    so a kinda agree more with you're brother than you on this one…
    to make it short: it was FernGully, by James Cameron, but hell, it kicked blue alien ASS!! =D

  • Anonymous

    I saw the movie in 3D, and I thought it was worth the 12 bucks I spent on it. Story wise, I thought it was just ok, but the 3D was the selling point of this movie. Far from spectacular but watchable. This movie didn’t really let down my expectations because I was honestly expecting a horrible disaster of a movie.

    btw: Spoony, if you keep eating those burgers, you and Miles can be the new Roger and Ebert.
    @Miles, has anybody ever told you that you sort of resemble Vin Diesel?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Filipe-Isabelinho/100000173498272 Filipe Isabelinho

    You know what CGI I thought was REALLY amazing? The pirates of the Caribbean 2, Davy Jones face, best CGI I've ever seen, I fell in love with that character, Bill Nighy was amazing, did an amazing job at being a dreaded pirate, but also very soft-hearted when it came to love.

    Best CGI ever, that face.

  • batotaku13

    wow, you're really impassioned about the plot analysis spoony…
    what is wrong with the story? it doesnt seem that bad…

    • Anonymous

      It wasn’t good, the plot is barely there and the movie was more of a tech demo than anything else.

    • Anonymous

      It wasn’t good, the plot is barely there and the movie was more of a tech demo than anything else.

  • batotaku13

    wow, you're really impassioned about the plot…
    what's wrong with a story with themes of racism/empathy?

  • http://Xaotikdesigns.com Adam

    am I the only one who saw the displacer beasts? I have heard no mention anywhere of them.

  • beliskner

    I haven't actually seen the movie just yet, but I have some fears going into it about the plot being unoriginal, the whole production not living up to the hype, and the movie just being about a CG fest.

    Watching this review it seems that Spoony has confirmed my worst fears about the movie. I will still go and watch it, and I have no doubt that I'll at least be entertained…but I always thought that no matter how good Avatar turns out to be, that I'll be underwhelmed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Murray/641087842 Andrew Murray

    The mountains can fly because of the spinny things underneath… Like the garden in FF8

  • nick3889

    Spoony, i respect your opinion , but me, I was blow away with this movie ok I LOVED IT, yea the story may not be original but what movie isn;t these days, now me I'm a simple movie going i don;t notice the little things ok i;m entertained by giant mechs, explosions, and lots of action but thats me. To me this movie was revolutionary and kicked A LOT of ass and was better then any movie i have seen in a long time, and people can say otherwise and i am not gonna care this is my opinion

    GOOD DAY SIR!!

  • nick3889

    Spoony You need to stop being so snobby ok Relax like punchultimate said Cameron said that he wanted to show familiar themes and a familiar story in a new and innovative way, not teach people things man relax spoony, Fucking relax. I still love this movie A LOT and i'm going to buy it no matter what people say and heck i may see it again. I loved it and it was Fucking amazing But i still respect your opinion man But RELAX!!

  • http://twitter.com/Sparky_Dalus Dalus

    Spoony, I think you're a funny guy. I love your videos, but that said, I think you're a bit biased about this one. You did sort of admit that from the start, which I do appreciate, but I'm definitely going to have to side with your brother about the whole “suspension of disbelief” thing. It's an animated movie. Just because it has a few real actors in it doesn't mean it has to be entirely realistic about every single thing it does. You must realize that in the scope of the universe, we know nothing. We don't even know everything about our own planet, so is it really so difficult to just accept that such a place as Pandora could exist? Are you honestly content to narrow your perspective so drastically that you can only accept that which conforms to your own tiny, ignorant concept of what you perceive as reality? If such things don't exist here on Earth, then obviously they can never exist anywhere else, right? Well as for myself, I prefer to keep an open mind, and let the movie take me where it wants me to be. Should you ever get tired of linear thinking, you might try it.

    Also, I have to say I'm a little disappointed in you by the lack of respect you gave your brother during the debate. He was polite while you were talking, but you couldn't even sit still while he was trying to explain his points. If you want people to take you seriously, then you should do them the same courtesy.

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, long time watcher, first time disagree-er. I honestly loved the movie, and I hardly ever watch TV so I really didn’t catch wind of all the hype surrounding it. Hell when I first heard of it I was like, “They’re going to make a Last Airbender movie?” Which i thought was stupid. Honestly I was absolutely blown away, and I like to consider myself somewhat of a movie buff. But all the un-originality was nothing compared to the global scale of the entire movie. I’m not saying you were wrong in calling it uninspired, but give it some credit. I thought, unlike most people, the character development was top-notch and the acting was pretty damn good most of the time also. Sure it had your usual “liberal” save the planet theology that alot of sci-fi movies have had. But I dunno, for some reason this movie was completely different for me. It’s as if I saw past all that and found probably one of the best movies 2009. I’m sure many people will discredit me for saying it, but I don’t care, this movie kicked ass, and I hate sounding like a fanboy.

    Sure it had plot elements from Ferngully, The Matrix, Dances with Wolves, hell even other Cameron movies like Aliens (to the death mech-suit fighting anyone). But honestly there really are no original ideas anymore, they’re all stealing from something. And if this WAS a re-telling of Dances with Wolves then I consider pretty fucking awesome, and enjoyed the ride all the way through. When I first saw the blue people in the movie and when you first heard the woman talk, I was like, “Oh no, this is just going to be 2 and 1/2 hours of horrible jokes and weird looking blue people doing equally weird stuff”. And while in some cases it was, The Na’Vi, for me at least, really connected with me in a profound way, it was one of those movies where I came out of the theater saying, “That was well worth 10 bucks”. The movie has latched on to my brain and is beginning to feed off it, because it’s one of those movies that really makes you think how it would be to be in, not only someone else’s shoes, but in a completely different race and culture. To be someone else for just a few hours a day, someone completely opposite you, but in the same way, the same is a weird thought for me. In short, I wanted to be inside this fantasy epic living this life jumping around the trees, flying around on a weird Pterodactyl, and yes boinking an alien. And in the end I think that was what James Cameron wanted, but I could be way off.

    It did have it’s “hey look at this impressive landscape and special effects” moments, but I don’t care because I found those moments absolutely breath-taking and when you come right down to it, it becomes basically a question of originality for you Spoony, and while I agree this movie did fail somewhat for it’s original aspects, we are talking about a crippled jarhead being phantom leaped and developed into an athletic and tree-hugging character, if that is not a developed anti-thesis then I honestly don’t know what is. Spoony I love when you’re bashing Michael Bay and playing crappy FMV games from the 90’s, but I’m gonna disagree with you on this one. Not saying you were wrong, just saying you were a little too radical. To call it the next leap in film making is a stretch, but you can’t help but be, if nothing else, entertained (and no I have never seen Dances with Wolves so I didn’t catch the identical story).

    And btw I love your brother in these reviews, you should definitely do more together.

  • http://twitter.com/Sparky_Dalus Dalus

    It's a “CG fest” in the same regard that any of the Pixar movies are CG fests. Don't let Spoony sour your opinion of the thing before you give it a chance. I didn't listen to the hype because I thought it was going to be just another sci-fi movie, and by going into it without any preconceived notions, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

  • beliskner

    I'm pretty sure I will enjoy it, just that I don't expect to be blown away by it. Glad you enjoyed it though.

  • FowderSoap

    “what's wrong with a story with themes of racism/empathy?”

    1. It's been done… a lot…and better.

    2. White people are sick of being portrayed as the villains in EVERY MOVIE. We're only about 8% of the world population, we're insulted on a daily basis, have no voice or advocacy groups (that aren't labeled as “racist”), and we're told what to say and think. You know what? THAT'S fucking racism!

  • adamfox

    Did you watch it in 3D. Thats the reason its the next leap in film.

  • Anonymous

    Hmm im sorry that what im about to say might come over a racist but i hope it dosnt. When i went to see this movie i thought from what ive heard this will be a great sci-fi but probably realy shallow. When i came away i realised that it was very much the oposite of shallow. I also realised that it would subconciously offend white americans and lots of europeans. Nobody wants to hear about the terrible things their ancesters have done especialy not when ur out to enjoy yourself, but for me this realy touched me deep. Im from a part of africa where colonization has been our history for a long time and this realy linked with my heritage.

    I didnt like the ending though. I think they should have lost. Thats what would have happened in real life.

    • Anonymous

      I’m a white european and I didn’t find it insulting, I thought it was brilliant. I really cared for the Na’vi and I was relieved that they won.

    • Anonymous

      I’m a white european and I didn’t find it insulting, I thought it was brilliant. I really cared for the Na’vi and I was relieved that they won.

  • adamfox

    see it in 3D

  • Anonymous

    your brother and you are so alike! its great to see you two in a video together : D

  • Waciba

    I did not, and walking out of theater looking at the poster that said it was in 3d did actually make me feel I was missing out on something.

  • adamfox

    Haha thats ridiculous. Self deprecation and being critical of oneself is at the basis of just about every goddam amazing film in the history of cinema, citizen kane, fight club, godfather….. you take away the right of a white filmmaker to criticize white people….. um there probably wouldn't have been any MOVIES IN CINEMAS THIS YEAR!

  • FowderSoap

    “you take away the right of a white filmmaker to criticize white people….. um there probably wouldn't have been any MOVIES IN CINEMAS THIS YEAR!”

    Exactly. Bashing my race is a huge party of modern film and it's sickening. Your sentiments merely prove my point, you Uncle Tom.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe its a huge part of modern film but analyzing, critisizing and commenting on ourselves … the point I’m making is that being a member of a race gives you the opportunity of providing greater insight and critical analysis of your race and thus provide the subtext for a film exploring the flaws and adventures of all human beings. The reason theres so many movies bashing white people out there is because theres more white filmmakers then any other race out there. If you explore communities of black filmmakers you will no doubt see films that show black people as being flawed and in need of self improvement etc.

      I’m british btw.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Cole/611205878 Alexander Cole

        A comment on humanity and it’s practices as a species. That’s as pure and true as a movie or story can get, and this is a self examination of the highest order. Brilliant post.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe its a huge part of modern film but analyzing, critisizing and commenting on ourselves … the point I’m making is that being a member of a race gives you the opportunity of providing greater insight and critical analysis of your race and thus provide the subtext for a film exploring the flaws and adventures of all human beings. The reason theres so many movies bashing white people out there is because theres more white filmmakers then any other race out there. If you explore communities of black filmmakers you will no doubt see films that show black people as being flawed and in need of self improvement etc.

      I’m british btw.

  • rudeboy12

    I agree its been done alot better. But the nature of europeans has been the same for 2000+ years. Europe has never stopped colonising its not about racism realy its about how europe goes and takes what it wants from weaker people and disrespects their ways. And what u said has amazed me i never realized that 8% of people could ruin the structure and culture of 2 continents. And its not like europes stopping their onto the middle east and theyre still paying for the madness in africa to continue. Did u know the french hid the people who comitted the genoside in rawanda? theres lots more so i think its sort of justified that we kind-of get a say in media at least. Its not like its gona make any difference…

  • http://twitter.com/MattMk2 Matthew S

    I just finnished watching Avatar and i was curious to see how much the budget was for this movie. I was shocked to find out how much it cost, $500 Million dollars. Holy mother fucking shit! 500 million on a fucking movie! and a not very good one at that! god dammit this is why i have no faith in the human race. we have millions of people dieing from hunger a disease every year and were spending $500 million a a signal movie! AHHHH!

  • AggsOfSpades

    I gotta say I drift more towards Miles' opinion on this. I went in knowing it would be a “meh” but I was impressed by the grand finale. I felt that there was a lot that could have been done to make this movie the classic it wanted to be. To me it came across as something I was supposed to love, but I really only tolerated. I didn't hate it, but I probably won't see it again.

  • thehenryspock

    Ok. Saw it.

    1. What the Hell is with all the vitriol and 'meh' ness towards this film? When did you stop loving movies? I understand it's not groundbreaking as far as plot, and yeah, James Cameron made some pretty high handed statements which probably won't bear fruit as a result of people seeing this film, but as far as presentation (which is where the art of movies comes in – not in plot originality), it's absolutely gorgeous.

    2. This is not Dances with Wolves. It's Enemy Mine. This is NOT how the war with the Native Americans went. The 'usb' effect of the hair was nice, because it gave a visible representation of what I grew up understanding as being 'connected to the land.'

    3. The 3d was beautiful. I don't know how much we can count on action/sci-fi/fantasy movies taking cues from this film, but it would be nice. However, the parts of this movie that could have been excised, in my opinion, were any scene that had any glimpe of 'Terran' mineral. Robots, ships, lab, etcetc. If those had been excised, I would have given this movie 5 stars.

    4. God I hate morality plays. All those fucking movies like Avatar, Schindler's List, and Grave of the Firefly's – I feel bad all ready, I get it! Being at once German, American, and Cherokee, I feel I'm in an interesting position to say that with honesty and a touch of humor.

    However, as far as you 'feeling bad already' and 'getting it', I don't think you do. I think that's one petty fucking petty statement, and I think part of your heart has hardened.

    5. You've never directly said hello to me (in over 6,000 posts), so I don't know if there's any necessity in saying 'adios' to you. But I started frequenting your site when my girlfriend of two years was leaving me. There's was nothing I could do about it, because she moved to a different city and would not accept the possibility that moving back in 2 years (which she was going to do – school, work) would then be an acceptable time to start living together. Your site has provided me some enjoyment, and occasionally you are quite enjoyable to watch. I've also defended your presentation style numerous times. But in 6000 posts and several private messages (and a t-shirt and a donation – not a lot of money, but I'm broke and going in debt for music school – tis life) we have never once communicated directly. I here from Scarlett almost every week, at the very least in a 'hey how are you?' kind of way.

    I wish you luck. But I've gotta say, if there's one thing seeing this movie has shown me, it's that I've wasted a fuck load of time and energy pooring thought into your forums – certainly, I've made a ton of unnecessarily snarky posts, I've occasionally been an ass, but I also make it a point to say hello to every noob thread I see, and I try to at least once per day give at least one well written post, so that I don't come off as a total madcapping jackass. However, in all this time I could have spent getting closer to my heritage, I was more concerned about 'lols' and nerd debate.

    As Bmoyn said, my loss.

  • Anonymous

    You’re bit to harsh on that movie. You’re putting it on the same level as “Quarantine” “FF8″ and “Kingdom of the crystal scull”. Does it really deserve such a bashing? Does people who worked on this movie made such crap-ass job? I think you’re just CG-racist.

    Besides using your logic on how it rips off all movies that had been done already then NO MOVIE IS ORIGINAL THESE DAYS. “Matrix” rips off “Star trek” because Neo connects to a computer via cable and Data does the same! What the hell do you want?! Brains with built in Bluetooth?

    “Inglorious Bastards” by these standards if a total ripoff too! Nazis were done already over and over again!

    And yeah “Avatar” IS “Dancing with the wolves”-IN SPACE. Can’t you look at it as a refreshed version of the story that makes it more accessible and digestible for XXI Joe Average?

    “Avatar” is entertaining and that’s what movies are all about.

    • Anonymous

      Totally agree.

      I thought after the film that it was ‘Dances with Wolves’ in space, but that isn’t such a bad thing!

    • Anonymous

      Totally agree.

      I thought after the film that it was ‘Dances with Wolves’ in space, but that isn’t such a bad thing!

  • Anonymous

    You’re bit to harsh on that movie. You’re putting it on the same level as “Quarantine” “FF8″ and “Kingdom of the crystal scull”. Does it really deserve such a bashing? Does people who worked on this movie made such crap-ass job? I think you’re just CG-racist.

    Besides using your logic on how it rips off all movies that had been done already then NO MOVIE IS ORIGINAL THESE DAYS. “Matrix” rips off “Star trek” because Neo connects to a computer via cable and Data does the same! What the hell do you want?! Brains with built in Bluetooth?

    “Inglorious Bastards” by these standards if a total ripoff too! Nazis were done already over and over again!

    And yeah “Avatar” IS “Dancing with the wolves”-IN SPACE. Can’t you look at it as a refreshed version of the story that makes it more accessible and digestible for XXI Joe Average?

    “Avatar” is entertaining and that’s what movies are all about.

  • FowderSoap

    What structure? The Native Americans were not the “noble and peaceful savages” of Disney movies. Small bands of tribesmen going around killing each other was the pre-colonial arrangement. You were actually more likely to survive a European war than an Indian conflict. Get a grip.

    As for Africa, excuse us for bringing modern civilization to a continent devoid of such. You know, the Boers and other colonizers turned places like Zimbabwe into the bread baskets of Africa. But now that most of the Europeans of have been murdered or forced to flee, the continent survives solely off of Western charity.

    Europeans are the most generous people on the face of the planet. Who else would give so much time and money to such hateful and ungrateful bastards? We do not murder our children for “honor crimes”, harvest the organs of pigmeys, nor run massive drug and prostitution rings.

  • Kitheri

    The story is definitely derivative, but I think it was solidly done. All of the key players were well acted – including the over the top Colonel; say what you want about the ridiculousness of the character but I think he'll be one of the most well remembered pieces of this entire film.

    And, for comparison, I'd rather say it's 'Dune' meets 'Dances with Wolves.'

    Also… I saw it in 3D and I have to say it's by far the best modern 3D movie I've seen. Sometimes you go see a movie and wonder where the $XXX millions went, but I could always see it in Avatar.

  • http://www.facebook.com/FireFighter214 Nick Klein

    Spoony, I think what your brother was trying to say is that your letting your frustration and disappointment that this movie is not anything close to what is was built up to be. However, is the movie still worth seeing on its own without the hype? I'm still on the fence on whether I'm going to go see it in the theater, but if I do I'm certain I'll see it at matinee prices. I appreciate your comments, but I would like to know what you thought of Ninja Assassin if you saw it.

  • rudeboy12

    Just because its not your cultures structure dosnt mean its not a structure. Your mentality is the one im talking about. Our structure/culture is the best we better let those dicks in the furry clothes know about it!

    Well let me excuse us niggers for being in the way!! What if we didnt want help and that if it wasnt for constant enslavement and invasions from europe we would have flourished. How about our universitys that once the portugues burnt down took the knowlage of the human eye from. How about our saharan trade routes. Thanks for forcing christiantiy upon us btw. oh and thanks for splitting us up into groups that want to kill each other. Thanks for killing more of us than all the jews killed in the holocaust.Infact heres a personal thanks from the parts of my family that were dropped from planes. Shit since uve been gone its been hell! And i wonder where you charity goes that you give to the people you put inplace with 'democracy' Yeah straight on guns to kill more african. Europe couldnt even leave the boers alone!!! You should get a grip!

    XD im sorry where do you think the organs, drugs and guns go to and come from. Where does the investment come from?
    Straight from good old white john and piers swiss bank acount.
    On the bright side thanks for the denim and pirate movies youve given us.:)

    • FowderSoap

      So let me get this straight- a civilization with modern medicine, communications, farming technology, freedoms, etc is equal to that of a nomadic peoples whose main concern is having enough of their meager crop ration to sacrifice to a tribal deity? The Third World worships the Moon. Westerners go there. Put that in your PC pipe and smoke it.

      But it is good that you do not want our help anymore. Please inform others so that we can finally stop shipping you all those bags of rice. Maybe someday the colonizers will return, and sweep all those cholera-infected corpses off the sides of the dirt roads. ;D

      • Anonymous

        Why do you think we want this we developed the vaccination to small pox before you. And you have very little freedom you cant do whatever you want. you get boxed out frowned upon, but its freedom none the less? Plus your lack of knowlage obviously shows youve never been to africa. very few people worship tribal gods. What other culture begs its god for more than they have? the whites. If your so great why are you the most unhappy people in the world? why are all of us savages more content than you? Because the way you live is so shallow you need to take things all the time to keep yourselves happy. I wonder why we didnt go to the moon. Maybe it was colonization, Slavery genoside and generaly fucking our money out of the country. Or maybe its because our negro brains are much smaller?Yeah thats it.Oh those bags of rice that dont get given to the right people that just get bought by big companies. Yeah thanks for your bullshit help. It shows how much you know about what you talk about though. Have you ever talked to and african? ever been there? Or is that below you? Maybe you will return and find that but then thats what white people do isnt it. They destroy familys burn infants and maim the inoccent cause starvation civil wars and genocides. Then your children will come along with their klan hats on wondering why everyone hates white people:P Well theres your answer.

        • FowderSoap

          “If your so great why are you the most unhappy people in the world?”
          Forbes actually had a top 10 list of the world’s happiest nations. They were Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Norway, and Belgium. And Zimbabwe ranked “unhappiest”. Also, Detroit now has 50% unemployment. They’re given a city, and what happens? Same as Johannesburg.

          Anyway, now I guess I’ll just leave you all to live out your lives in the squalor and starvation you seem so proud of! :)

          http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/world-happiest

          • Anonymous

            Notice how The dutch and the belgiums are the only colonialists up there?You think detroit can even be compared with johannesburg and you think johannesburg is black? go there and educate yourself i think youll find the problems run much more deeply than us savages running around trying to club you…Have you ever been to libya? because they have a more powerfull economy than any european country. Theres no squalor there… while in southern italy, Parts of britain and the fact you wont even help your own people with free health in america realy says somthing about the amount of squalor you have. I dont think you can claim to be any better. And why wont you understand you caused the poverty or are you proud of that. If so we have nothing to argue about exept than europe takes its claws off africa but that wont happen. But next time you out looking at the niggers and slit eyes that plague your life just think… soon you 8% will be 0% and the whites will cease to exist…Night;)

          • FowderSoap

            Free healthcare sucks. In the UK a sick person has to wait behind a line of immigrants, politicians, and other various douchebags. Americans actually have higher diagnostic and survival rates than Brits.And you think Whites are going to deal with you uppity cockroaches forever? You people screwed yourselves by electing Obama. We all know what you are, and White guilt is fading fast if not gone already. And you’re gonna be finding yourself back in Zulu land, dying of AIDS and starvation.Night ;)

          • Anonymous

            No your wrong i live in the UK and free health care is amazing they treat you no matter who you are. An immagrant, a white person, a rich person ,a poor person. Treated americans do…… I wonder bout the ones that dont?

            Obama is a dick. He has done nothing for the people he promised he would do things for. Thanks for your sweeping generalisation i mean blacks are blacks right. just because ur white dosnt make you all white people..
            XD how would that work do you know anything about zulus? or where they are?

            Listen you dont know enough about the topic to argue educate yourself before its to late. Who knows if not ur grandchildren might be called leroy bedewa or Jin pa-sin!!!!

            Quick to the library!

          • FowderSoap

            If you are a black in the UK of course you like the healthcare system. You’re given first dibs by the Lib/Lab/Con empire. And it’s funny because non-Brits shouldn’t even be in the UK anyway!

          • Anonymous

            you know nothing atall do youXD. where did you even get that idea from. You could never prove it or quote it so you are left with no evidence.

            Ever heard of more skilled workers coming over to replace people who cant do their jobs. I think my familys justified to be here and i have lived out most of my life here. I am half british so im justified to stay here then leave back home when things go to shit. Tbh i can do what i want here. Now go on Tell me that us Niggers cant think straight or maybe im a halfy whatever just gargle your bullshit:D

          • FowderSoap

            Well since your types arrived things certainly have gone to shit. Now please leave. :D

            And gargling shit? That sound like your average “Ice-Cube” gang initiation.

          • Anonymous

            Oh right yeah its not the fact you cant elect a decent government or keep your own jobs its the fact that we have taken your place in society. I guess that your the actualy problem. Go away you realy are dragging down this country.

            Im guessing you live in back ass nowhere because your scared of rap.

            Your illogical and no nothing about what you argue about bye.

          • FowderSoap

            I suggest you go home. It’s our countries after all, blue-gum.

          • FowderSoap

            I suggest you go home. It’s our countries after all, blue-gum.

          • Anonymous

            Oh right yeah its not the fact you cant elect a decent government or keep your own jobs its the fact that we have taken your place in society. I guess that your the actualy problem. Go away you realy are dragging down this country.

            Im guessing you live in back ass nowhere because your scared of rap.

            Your illogical and no nothing about what you argue about bye.

          • FowderSoap

            Well since your types arrived things certainly have gone to shit. Now please leave. :D

            And gargling shit? That sound like your average “Ice-Cube” gang initiation.

          • Anonymous

            you know nothing atall do youXD. where did you even get that idea from. You could never prove it or quote it so you are left with no evidence.

            Ever heard of more skilled workers coming over to replace people who cant do their jobs. I think my familys justified to be here and i have lived out most of my life here. I am half british so im justified to stay here then leave back home when things go to shit. Tbh i can do what i want here. Now go on Tell me that us Niggers cant think straight or maybe im a halfy whatever just gargle your bullshit:D

          • FowderSoap

            If you are a black in the UK of course you like the healthcare system. You’re given first dibs by the Lib/Lab/Con empire. And it’s funny because non-Brits shouldn’t even be in the UK anyway!

          • Anonymous

            No your wrong i live in the UK and free health care is amazing they treat you no matter who you are. An immagrant, a white person, a rich person ,a poor person. Treated americans do…… I wonder bout the ones that dont?

            Obama is a dick. He has done nothing for the people he promised he would do things for. Thanks for your sweeping generalisation i mean blacks are blacks right. just because ur white dosnt make you all white people..
            XD how would that work do you know anything about zulus? or where they are?

            Listen you dont know enough about the topic to argue educate yourself before its to late. Who knows if not ur grandchildren might be called leroy bedewa or Jin pa-sin!!!!

            Quick to the library!

          • FowderSoap

            Free healthcare sucks. In the UK a sick person has to wait behind a line of immigrants, politicians, and other various douchebags. Americans actually have higher diagnostic and survival rates than Brits.And you think Whites are going to deal with you uppity cockroaches forever? You people screwed yourselves by electing Obama. We all know what you are, and White guilt is fading fast if not gone already. And you’re gonna be finding yourself back in Zulu land, dying of AIDS and starvation.Night ;)

          • Anonymous

            Notice how The dutch and the belgiums are the only colonialists up there?You think detroit can even be compared with johannesburg and you think johannesburg is black? go there and educate yourself i think youll find the problems run much more deeply than us savages running around trying to club you…Have you ever been to libya? because they have a more powerfull economy than any european country. Theres no squalor there… while in southern italy, Parts of britain and the fact you wont even help your own people with free health in america realy says somthing about the amount of squalor you have. I dont think you can claim to be any better. And why wont you understand you caused the poverty or are you proud of that. If so we have nothing to argue about exept than europe takes its claws off africa but that wont happen. But next time you out looking at the niggers and slit eyes that plague your life just think… soon you 8% will be 0% and the whites will cease to exist…Night;)

        • FowderSoap

          “If your so great why are you the most unhappy people in the world?”
          Forbes actually had a top 10 list of the world’s happiest nations. They were Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Norway, and Belgium. And Zimbabwe ranked “unhappiest”. Also, Detroit now has 50% unemployment. They’re given a city, and what happens? Same as Johannesburg.

          Anyway, now I guess I’ll just leave you all to live out your lives in the squalor and starvation you seem so proud of! :)

          http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/world-happiest

      • Anonymous

        Why do you think we want this we developed the vaccination to small pox before you. And you have very little freedom you cant do whatever you want. you get boxed out frowned upon, but its freedom none the less? Plus your lack of knowlage obviously shows youve never been to africa. very few people worship tribal gods. What other culture begs its god for more than they have? the whites. If your so great why are you the most unhappy people in the world? why are all of us savages more content than you? Because the way you live is so shallow you need to take things all the time to keep yourselves happy. I wonder why we didnt go to the moon. Maybe it was colonization, Slavery genoside and generaly fucking our money out of the country. Or maybe its because our negro brains are much smaller?Yeah thats it.Oh those bags of rice that dont get given to the right people that just get bought by big companies. Yeah thanks for your bullshit help. It shows how much you know about what you talk about though. Have you ever talked to and african? ever been there? Or is that below you? Maybe you will return and find that but then thats what white people do isnt it. They destroy familys burn infants and maim the inoccent cause starvation civil wars and genocides. Then your children will come along with their klan hats on wondering why everyone hates white people:P Well theres your answer.

    • FowderSoap

      So let me get this straight- a civilization with modern medicine, communications, farming technology, freedoms, etc is equal to that of a nomadic peoples whose main concern is having enough of their meager crop ration to sacrifice to a tribal deity? The Third World worships the Moon. Westerners go there. Put that in your PC pipe and smoke it.

      But it is good that you do not want our help anymore. Please inform others so that we can finally stop shipping you all those bags of rice. Maybe someday the colonizers will return, and sweep all those cholera-infected corpses off the sides of the dirt roads. ;D

  • thehenryspock

    Don't forget Enemy Mine.

  • pawcanada84

    I can't say I've been following much hype for this film. I've been interested but that's about it. Granted none of my (local) friends are interested in seeing this so I don't think I'll be seeing this any time soon, but at the moment I can't say I mind (at least at the moment).

    I do however agree with what you said about reading too many reviews, generating high expectations and having it let down. I remember seeing a comedy film (I wont say which) a few years ago after reading tons of great reviews, only to come out gravely dissapointed.

    Oh and I couldn't help but laugh a little when you started eating your lunch/dinner XD. I dunno why but it made me chuckle.

  • http://twitter.com/nochisan nochisan

    See, this just confirmed all my fears about this movie. I've been calling it “Night Elves and Space Marines” since I saw the trailer.

    The TVTropes page says that its strength lies in its visuals and not its plot, and I just don't think that's how movies are supposed to work. Movies are visual storytelling. Yes, the visuals are important, but they can't carry a film by themselves.

  • masterinsan0

    If you're here hoping to talk to Spoony, you might have come with an inherent misunderstanding. My impression of Spoony has always been that he allows Scarlett to do the fan-servicing (in a strictly literal since) while he makes the actual product that the site delivers. Other than at rarely on the forums and occasionally via twitter, I'm not sure he's ever directly responded to a fan. It's definitely not standard practice for him.

    I'm not sure what about Avatar inspired you to suddenly dislike Spoony and his forums. I certainly didn't agree with everything Spoony said, but I also take what he says with a few grains of salt–after all, we watch him to see him bitch about something in such an over-the-top way that it's humorous, not for him to say, “Yes, this was a well-made but derivative product of Hollywood.” Moreover, Spoony himself admitted that he went in already hating the movie. I'm not sure what you really expected out of it. The vibe I get from your comment (and I don't mean this offensively) is that you've got some other stuff on your mind and you're kinda taking it out on Spoony and the forums.

    Just my two cents.

  • HarmlessScarab

    lol at the marine guy

  • thehenryspock

    Masterinsan – you apparently didn't read my post. I've been 'here' for more than a year. I obviously learned a long time ago that you do not just 'talk' to Noah. And, for that matter, he doesn't talk to you. Welcome to TSE.

  • masterinsan0

    I most certainly did read your post, in which you said “6. You've never directly said hello to me (in over 6,000 posts), so I don't know if there's any necessity in directly saying 'adios' to you.”

    (sigh) Fuck it. Never mind. This community blows. I've tried to participate in the forums, and I get ridiculed. I try to participate in the comments, and people respond lovingly with condescending shit. I'm not exactly weak-willed when it comes to anonymous internet bullshit, but this is just a waste of my time. I guess when you become a fan of a snarker, you feel the need to be just as snarky yourself. Except there's a difference between being snarky and being an asshole, a difference that few people in this community seem to understand.

    So I guess I'll be joining you in saying “adios”.

  • Power Bar

    wow now thats over reacting…
    yeah i dont agree with Noah on this movie but gosh, when did participating on a forum or posting comments gives any one the obligation of saying anything to anyone?

    i sympathize with you on the GF part, i've been there and it sucks, moving away is like a nail to the man sack i really get that, again, i've been in your shoes. its great that you got over it, but again this is just entertainment.
    when you see a movie, pay the ticket and take you're friends to see the movie, to you expect the actor or the producer or anyone else to say something to you? of course not.
    Noah at least as the decency of thanking his Fans in general, every one that follows his work, he's done that more than once, what more do we want? a special thanks? a mention? its not what this is about…
    its all about the “lols” and hearing what a common guy with a website and a cam think about a subject.

    please don't see this as a provocation, i just think you are over reacting a little bit.

  • Power Bar

    nochisan, if you like a love story and good animation don't just let the movie go.
    hear Spoony brother, he is the voice of reason in the Vlog xD
    its not anything new in story telling departmente but its a good love story and has some great action scenes, but be aware, its like “lord of the rings” the first movie, its long and the first half is very slow.

    best of luck

  • http://www.cheshirecatstudios.com LaughingMan

    Bring back your brother to help pick apart all of your future Hollywood Blockbusters reviews! I dunno, I enjoy hearing the two of you battle it out a little because I think the two of you not only have good chemistry but you help keep each other on track.

    I also agree with the preachy bullshit and 'white guilt'. I've never been directly involved in genocide and never will, so don't preach to me, right?

  • Anonymous

    HAMBURGERS!!!

  • Anonymous

    HAMBURGERS!!!

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, I don’t understand why you didn’t like this movie. I loved it and would have been happy if you liked it too.
    I don’t understand how people are bashing Avatar for not having an original story, while at the same time they rate “The Departed” as one of the greatest movies of all time. The Departed is almost an exact carbon copy of “Infernal Affairs”. Hypocrisy at its best really.

  • Anonymous

    Spoony, I don’t understand why you didn’t like this movie. I loved it and would have been happy if you liked it too.
    I don’t understand how people are bashing Avatar for not having an original story, while at the same time they rate “The Departed” as one of the greatest movies of all time. The Departed is almost an exact carbon copy of “Infernal Affairs”. Hypocrisy at its best really.

  • adamtm

    Hey,

    my point concerning “CGI-ness” is that CGI is a wonderful tool, and im not only saying that because i work in CGI. :P

    I think CGI does give you the opportunity to show what you can NOT show in real life. For example, you cant have a dragon fucking up shit, because no dragons exist, so its good to resort to CGI there, however, if you show me CGI cars or CGI actors, well not so much.

    CGI must be used to create worlds that are -impossible- to create otherwise, that includes flying mountains and talking tress.

    Practical effects can take you only so far before they become either unrealistic/cheesy (Power Rangers?) or too damn expensive to even consider.

    Now I know that a lot of people like seeing puppets/animatronics used in film, i just dont, i think its a waste of time and effort. For example i saw a few screenshots of Fantastic Mr. Fox and i was convinced its CGI, when i then saw the trailer and it turned out to be stop-motion (of the crudest kind) i was severely put off by it.
    I know its supposed to get you the warm nostalgia feeling, but it just doesnt. Animatronics in Star Wars were good because they were state of the art AND the only way to go.

    That being said I'm also in the camp against overuse of CRAPPY CGI. See there is a difference between Battlefield Earth CGI and District 9 CGI. Both more or less low budget, but the difference is huge.

    CGI needs to be good, movie makers often dont realize what is doable for a budget, i get it all the time. People dont realize that i can make a bottle in 3D to look perfect and spin it around and shit, but that it will be more expensive to look good than just take the bottle and make a photo of it.

    Yes BAD CGI is overused nowadays i agree, but if you are being rubbed the wrong way by CGI in general, well thats something else then.

    Id call it snobbish. :P

  • Anonymous

    I like when you have a partner to do the vlogs with, if you and your bro did a podcast, I’d listen

  • Anonymous

    I like when you have a partner to do the vlogs with, if you and your bro did a podcast, I’d listen

  • KamenRiderGumo

    I have to say, I was NOT impressed with this movie (what bits of it I was awake through, at any rate). Like pretty much every other non-“Terminator 2″ James Cameron film, this is an awesome cure for insomnia. I saw it in 3D and felt like I'd been ripped off. If you want a good 3D movie to go see this Christmas season, go see “A Christmas Carol”. At least THAT one didn't beat you over the head with “THIS IS 3D! THIS IS 3D!”; it was subtle and understated, yet noticeable and enjoyable. I didn't care for the rehashing of the same old shtick in “Avatar” (I know Cameron said he was going to do that from the outset, but being prepared for it didn't make it any better). I felt worse over the fact that I paid money for it than I did over ANY of the so-called drama in the film. It tries to be “Dances With Wolves” and fails. Miserably. I used part of a gift card someone had gotten me to see this and I felt as though I'd wasted their money. I went to see “The Princess and thr Frog” a second time just to justify the trip to the theater (which is a *FAR* superior movie to this…thing).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Kling/100000372675551 John Kling

    I didn't really see all the trailers so I've never gotten hyped up to this movie.
    But the thing that made me interrested is that the movie and the game was being developed at the same and I'VE never heard of anything like that happening before. I read about the game in a magazine and it said that they were throwing ideas back & forth between the two teams. And that's the ONLY thing that kept me vaguely (I hope that's spelled right).
    Right, now I'm going to watch the rest of the review.

  • bumkin

    you know spoonster i agree with you on a LOT of things movie related. the transformers series was horrible for instance.

    and while i agree the actual story of Avatar had been done before and was a bit predictable. I WAS entertained thru the whole thing. there were some parts where it slowed down and dragged for a bit. BUT at the same time i went into this movie knowing that the story was not going to be epic or new. i went in the for sights and to see what he did and how it turned out.

    The motion capture was great. the voices were well played and the characters we solid.

    I was entertained and it was a good movie experience for me

  • jpspike

    First time leaving a comment, okay, here goes. I feel many of your frustrations about this move. It is way over hyped and falls back on many movie stereotypes and it is reminiscent of movies like dances with wolves; however, I did in fact like it. The graphics were well integrated into the movie and the acting, while incredibly cheesy at times, didn't take me out of the movie. Again i do have to agree, the movie was too long, made even longer by the fact the plot slowed to a near standstill several times. I knew well ahead of seeing it that this movie would be nowhere near what people were hailing it to be and because of that I was able to, dare I say, enjoy it. Again it certainly isn't epic, or even groundbreaking but I'd still recommend seeing it to anyone who asked me my opinion.

  • lynchadoryx

    Somehow, I thought this movie was older. Not that the movie LOOKS older, just in the sense of how many years it was in the works. I thought it was a re-release or something. I must be crazy.

    That aside, what is with all the intense butthurt from the viewers?
    Spoony is a critic, and we come here to see his opinion, not to blow our gaskets when we disagree.
    “His opinion is completely different than my own, DOES NOT COMPUTE.”

  • bmoyn715

    glad to hear you saw it

  • Gauphastus

    I just find it silly how some folks would get after Spoony for not simply enjoying the movie for its entertainment value, when they themselves are getting a bit bent out of shape because they couldn't enjoy Spoony's vlog for its entertainment value.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Filipe-Isabelinho/100000173498272 Filipe Isabelinho

    you know what would blow this movie out of the water and perhaps, sci-fi movies?

    A starcraft movie. Blizzard is working in a Warcraft movie, I know, but seriously, I probably prefer the starcraft 2 trailer when Zeratul talks to Raynor, it's just a few minutes, but it is amazing! a full movie would just, blow my mind for sure, Blizzard has some awesome writers!

  • Raventail

    My roommate and I saw Avatar in IMAX 3D last night and we both enjoyed it. Spoony, man, I love you but I was a bit surprised by how harsh you were with it. Like Miles I agree the story has been done a dozen times over and it wasn’t the epic masterpiece the media was saying it was going to be. But also, like Miles, I let that all go and enjoyed it for what it offered.

    I respect your opinion and still consider you very informed and bright on the subject of movies, games, etc. I just found it a little confusing how you tore at Avatar for it’s moments of ‘Bullshit’ as you call it. While you’ve made it very clear in other movie reviews you find entertainment and even joy in the ‘Bullshit’ moments of these other works. I suppose it really comes down to bullshit preference. I actually liked the floating mountains. Were they practical or even possible? Hell no. But they were mystical and alien and ultimately different then earth. Which is what I felt Cameron was going for. Though I do agree with the waterfall aspect of them. It was stupid that these relatively small chucks of rock had an apparent endless supply of water to pour off their sides.

    I dunno Spoony, you might be a tad jaded when it comes to new releases. I can’t say I blame you as there are floating mountains of crap Hollywood pushes out constantly. But I’ve learned from you that even bad movies can be entertaining.

  • Raventail

    My roommate and I saw Avatar in IMAX 3D last night and we both enjoyed it. Spoony, man, I love you but I was a bit surprised by how harsh you were with it. Like Miles I agree the story has been done a dozen times over and it wasn’t the epic masterpiece the media was saying it was going to be. But also, like Miles, I let that all go and enjoyed it for what it offered.

    I respect your opinion and still consider you very informed and bright on the subject of movies, games, etc. I just found it a little confusing how you tore at Avatar for it’s moments of ‘Bullshit’ as you call it. While you’ve made it very clear in other movie reviews you find entertainment and even joy in the ‘Bullshit’ moments of these other works. I suppose it really comes down to bullshit preference. I actually liked the floating mountains. Were they practical or even possible? Hell no. But they were mystical and alien and ultimately different then earth. Which is what I felt Cameron was going for. Though I do agree with the waterfall aspect of them. It was stupid that these relatively small chucks of rock had an apparent endless supply of water to pour off their sides.

    I dunno Spoony, you might be a tad jaded when it comes to new releases. I can’t say I blame you as there are floating mountains of crap Hollywood pushes out constantly. But I’ve learned from you that even bad movies can be entertaining.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Wiegeabo-Kilijabob/100000074745693 Wiegeabo Kilijabob

    I have no desire to see Avatar now (actually, I never did). While technologically impressive, every single story element sounds beyond derivative. I love how it's pretty much Dances With Wolves in Space. And impressive special effects aren't enough to make me spend my money on tickets. Everyone was telling me I should go see Transformers 2 for the special effects…

  • http://twitter.com/Maulmoviemoos Maul

    Hey cool new system it seems, hope this keeps the trolls away. Anyway, I haven't seen it yet but my first impressions mirror yours. I think it looks like overrated shite. I'll see it anyway.

  • FowderSoap

    “If your so great why are you the most unhappy people in the world?”
    Forbes actually had a top 10 list of the world's happiest nations. They were Denmark, Finland, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland, Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, Norway, and Belgium. And Zimbabwe ranked “unhappiest”. Also, Detroit now has 50% unemployment. They're given a city, and what happens? Same as Johannesburg.

    Anyway, now I guess I'll just leave you all to live out your lives in the squalor and starvation you seem so proud of! :)

    http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/05/world-happiest

  • kingswing

    The love story in this was horrible and unbelievable. The animation was breathtaking but don't lie and say it was a good love story.

    • Anonymous

      That’s his opinion, he can’t lie about an opinion. I thought the love story was decent enough. I have seen it before but it was different enough for me to enjoy. It was interesting to see her response when she discovered his crippled human body at the end of the battle – and still liked him. Thought that was a nice touch – she saw through what he looked like (quite literally as he wasn’t even part of her race).

      On a side note, I thought when they kissed it was kinda funny – not exactly ‘clean’ and a bit sloppy. Kinda realistic considering it was very in the moment. Weird that they were CGI yet they were able to kiss like actual people.

      • Anonymous

        That isn’t his opinion no one who possess the mental capacity to turn on a computer and type will think this was a “good” love story. I am not saying anything about the overall story but the 15 mins (most of it was dialogueless training montage stuff) spent on their relationship was not compelling, interesting, or romantic.

        • Power Bar

          offending me is not really the way out.
          like morritan said it is my opinion and i’m not alone, there are many people that think the same.
          i like unbelievable, thats kind of the point of fantasy and sci-fy (go see star wars or battlestar galatica), and again, in my opinion, its a good love story, sharing something that you are passionated about (in this case was her people) with some one else is a good way to fall in love. you don’t hear them talking its true, but you hear Jake Sully video logs, what he felt and thought.
          again try not to offend, that not the point of commenting, or at least it shouldn’t be.

      • Anonymous

        That isn’t his opinion no one who possess the mental capacity to turn on a computer and type will think this was a “good” love story. I am not saying anything about the overall story but the 15 mins (most of it was dialogueless training montage stuff) spent on their relationship was not compelling, interesting, or romantic.

    • Anonymous

      That’s his opinion, he can’t lie about an opinion. I thought the love story was decent enough. I have seen it before but it was different enough for me to enjoy. It was interesting to see her response when she discovered his crippled human body at the end of the battle – and still liked him. Thought that was a nice touch – she saw through what he looked like (quite literally as he wasn’t even part of her race).

      On a side note, I thought when they kissed it was kinda funny – not exactly ‘clean’ and a bit sloppy. Kinda realistic considering it was very in the moment. Weird that they were CGI yet they were able to kiss like actual people.

  • MrZer0

    I'm going to see this movie
    I was going to see it knowing it was bad but now I found a new motivation besides to see a train wreck
    MECH VS. ALIEN KNIFE FIGHT

  • Eniliad

    Well, I went and saw the movie. I had seen your review first, so I admit I was looking for all the problems you said there would be. And yes, the plot directly rips off many movies that have indeed been done. However, I actually don't mind that fact so much, mostly because the stories that they're taking ideas from – they're really good. After all, Star Wars (the original trilogy) takes a lot of ideas and inspiration from old, classic movies that most people today have no experience with whatsoever… but Star Wars is still really good. At least, the untouched versions are. (Do digitally remastered, UNTOUCHED versions exist? I would totally buy them.)

    I guess what I'm getting at is that even though it's derivative, the story – at face value – is still good. However, I will gladly admit that once you look below the surface into the references to the War on Terror, the displacement of the Native American tribes, and other events to make white people like me feel bad, you start to get pissed at the director. I know my ancestors were dicks. I'm sorry; I don't have any way of repairing the damage or undoing the past. So you can stop throwing that in my face, okay?

    So really, I'd say if you just look at it face-value, the movie is “good” like you said. Not great, not awesome – but it's definitely one of those films that I can remember later as a good memory. Is it worth buying for keeps? Probably not, since it won't look near as good on a home TV system. But it's one that I would be ok with seeing in the theatre at least once.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Ehrnstrom/559010456 John Ehrnström

    Great review! Your brother rather reminds me of a skinnier Vin Diesel (no offense at all intended, rather a compliment I think). Nice to see you bringing in other people for your Vlog!

  • Anonymous

    I think this movie was a bit over hyped. I agree with your brother if I went in knowing nothing about this movie, it would have been great.

    this film was a human vs alien movie genre. And in that manner that film was quite good.

  • Anonymous

    I think this movie was a bit over hyped. I agree with your brother if I went in knowing nothing about this movie, it would have been great.

    this film was a human vs alien movie genre. And in that manner that film was quite good.

  • ihcrct

    I think you were a bit to harsh on this film. Sure the story was a bit cut and paste but the movie looked amazing! Also the music was pretty good and the story did have at least one memorable character. From a 0 to 5 scale I'd give it a 4.

  • kefkaesque

    I'm sure the movie is objectively pretty good but the premise is unappealing to me, to the point where I have no real desire to see the film.

    I don't care about space-faring evil imperialist white men.

    I don't care about big blue noble savage natives.

    I just. don't. care.

    On a side note, white guilt is stupid. Race is nothing but a common ancestry. Therefore, the idea that we should be held morally responsible for the actions of our ancestors is incredibly racist. And actually, if we're talking about guilt over the treatment of native Americans, then MY ancestors were busy being oppressed by the English at the time; so you're asking me to feel guilty for something done by people that have the same skin colour as my ancestors. Wow.

  • ihcrct

    I knew you wouldn't like this movie.

  • 12sided

    I have to disagree that the 'invading white people' trope is a bad one.

    I haven't seen Avatar yet but I'm going to see it for the Blue-space-elf-cats. I have no problem with floating islands, I put it under Rule-Of-Cool and because-it-looks-pretty so I don''t think I'll be dissapointed in that regaurd (and I don't play WoW so the forrest won't be a problem).

  • Poipoi

    Is it me or there been several movies this recently that have a political theme going on in them? That whole bashing americans by having humans try and take over some alien planet or resource. Avatar isn’t the first. They had a cartoon about earth being gone and last of humanity wanted to steal a planet from a non-war making race. Even planet 51… the trailers give me the impression it has a bit of same even if its not as forced down our throat.

    Its kinda sad when we are satisfied with a movie that is really pieces of several good movies in one.

  • Poipoi

    Is it me or there been several movies this recently that have a political theme going on in them? That whole bashing americans by having humans try and take over some alien planet or resource. Avatar isn’t the first. They had a cartoon about earth being gone and last of humanity wanted to steal a planet from a non-war making race. Even planet 51… the trailers give me the impression it has a bit of same even if its not as forced down our throat.

    Its kinda sad when we are satisfied with a movie that is really pieces of several good movies in one.

  • Wubby

    Great to have you back Spoony, your post had me worried. Glad to see you're as strong as we all thought :D. Also, to you Miles. It's always fun seeing you two review, laugh, and compare with eachother. You should do more with Spoony!

    I haven't seen the movie but the one thing that you guys sold me on it with was the general. I couldn't breathe when you guys were impersonating him :P

    Also kudos on the log in system, it was needed.

  • EatTheHumans

    I'm kinda with you spoony….and kinda not. Don't get me wrong this movie is a freakin feast for the eyeballs. But your right the story really is a retred.

    And I'll admit I sort of agree with Michael Bay..DON'T KILL ME!… the whole 3D thing does seem like kind of a fad. I just can't see it becoming mainstream.

  • http://twitter.com/nochisan nochisan

    Honestly, kingswing, I'm inclined to agree with you. I usually try to keep an open mind about stuff like this until I've actually seen it, but everything I hear about this is “turn your brain off and look at the pretty” and that's not why I go to movies. It makes me a little sad, actually.

    • Power Bar

      its not “turn your brain off and look at the pretty”, even spoony says that isn’t that.
      its just not a NEW story, but there is a story, even if at times they do show off their new tech, that in a movie of 3h its like 15min of the film.

  • http://www.facebook.com/AnthonySkatz Anthony Skatz

    Sounds like Michael Bay directing District 9.

  • http://www.vaughnonmovies.com/ Vaughn On Movies

    Really cool having my comment deleted.

  • androne

    I have to side with everyone else and say that I thought this movie was awesome. Yea it tore chunks from other movie plots, but I wasn't expecting an amazingly unique script…it's a sci-fi movie for the masses after all. Any attempt at making the story more original or complicated would have likely overshadowed or even damaged what was Cameron's intent with this movie…which appears to have been to create a futuristic fantasy world that is just enjoyable and fun. I mean, if the story really required you to sit and pay attention to every word to figure out what was happening, eventually you'd miss out on the graphical feast for the eyes going on in the background – and then whats the point of having such an expensively CGI'd movie?

    And on the whole “white-guilt” thing…I don't see it. I see the general “human arrogance” storyline, but even though the main characters were white I don't see it as playing off a specific guilt in white people as much as it plays off the generally shitty way people of all colors will treat other people they think aren't as good as themselves. Sure the obvious story points taken from other big movies make us think back to bad things white people have done…but that's just cause it's what we are used to seeing in movies. It isn't like we are the only people who have ever forced someone else off their land or tried to exterminate a group for personal gain…

    Honestly, from watching your reviews of movies that have recently come out vs. your reviews of movies from way in the past, I think you yourself are being affected more by the hype surrounding the newer 'blockbuster' movies than the movies themselves sometimes. I know you are a critic, and it's your right/job to criticize the flaws and failings in movies…I just feel bad when it seems that just because somebody in the media hypes up a movie like it's the second coming, you lose the ability to enjoy it for what it is =(

  • Anonymous

    PURPLE SHEILD [17] FORGOTTEN REALMS THE AVATAR SHAR AVATAR; A CLERIC AND ONE FORGOTTEN REALMS* HOLDING MUST BE DISCARDED TO BRING SHAR INTO PLAY. SHE ABSORBS ALL OFFENSIVE SPELLS CAST AGAINST THIS PLAYER’S FORGOTTEN REALMS CHAMPIONS AND REALMS, DISPELLING OR DEFLECTING THEM AS SHE WISHES. LIMIT {BREAK} ONE AVATAR PER POOL. AD&D TU 72OF100 (before yugi was born kaiba was a character in the BLADE CHILDRENS BOX SET…what is kaiba’s true name…he is wearing a mask…)-YUGO TW;_

  • Anonymous

    PURPLE SHEILD [17] FORGOTTEN REALMS THE AVATAR SHAR AVATAR; A CLERIC AND ONE FORGOTTEN REALMS* HOLDING MUST BE DISCARDED TO BRING SHAR INTO PLAY. SHE ABSORBS ALL OFFENSIVE SPELLS CAST AGAINST THIS PLAYER’S FORGOTTEN REALMS CHAMPIONS AND REALMS, DISPELLING OR DEFLECTING THEM AS SHE WISHES. LIMIT {BREAK} ONE AVATAR PER POOL. AD&D TU 72OF100 (before yugi was born kaiba was a character in the BLADE CHILDRENS BOX SET…what is kaiba’s true name…he is wearing a mask…)-YUGO TW;_

  • DJGamer

    I haven't watched the whole review and I'm sure there's already a ton of people who have pointed out The Cinema Snob's positive review as well-but I'll go ahead and just say something that's on my mind specifically, although judging from one of your tweets this has probably been pointed out to you in some fashion as well-although I can't be entirely sure of the specifics.

    Now I won't go so far as to call you a hypocrite-or would that be a hypocritic? OUCH! (I had to hit myself on the back of the head for that one, sorry). Anyway, I just find it ironic that when you and The Cinema Snob reviewed 2012 the opinions were the exact opposite-You liked it, saying it was a nice little thrill ride, whereas the Snob didn't so much because it relied so heavily on CGI effects. Here it's pretty much the opposite-Snob liked it and thought it was a good ride, and here you are picking on the CGI stuff. Of course, that's not the only complaint you had about the movie but I did find that one bit particularly to be ironic.

    As for 2012 vs. Avatar, I think I can see why you'd prefer the former in some ways-while it is in some ways derivative of other disaster movies that have come before it (granted, I haven't seen the movie myself, I'd probably wait for either the discount theater or DVD. I'm going off of what I've heard from the various reviews), the basic premise is fairly original-a quite literal “Armageddon” event-as opposed to all the “fake” ones where at least the world itself ends up getting saved. Or maybe you liked it better because it's not pretending to be original or new-perhaps it's the principal of the thing. lol
    As for suspension of disbelief issues, in-particular the “hair interface”, I haven't seen the movie itself (I intend to go to it eventually, my family rarely goes to films on opening weekends), but I think that it's something that the average movie goer probably won't be thinking that deep into to really doubt the believability-and even then we're not talking about “Earth Evolution” here. Our planet evolved with a sort of “competitive” system-survival of the fittest as they say, but what if on this other planet, life evolved in a more “symbiotic” fashion? Through some complex chain of evolutionary events, the dominate life forms on the planet evolved with a way to connect themselves to other lifeforms and interact with them. Perhaps for some it may be a bit of a stretch of the imagination-but like I said I don't think most people will even be considering the concept that closely.
    I'm not sure whether I'll watch the rest of the review-it might have some spoilers and also it's pretty clear already that you didn't particularly like and and I'd prefer to just leave it at that.

  • LAGUNA_AND_ADELL

    PURPLE SHEILD [17] FORGOTTEN REALMS THE AVATAR SHAR AVATAR; A CLERIC AND ONE FORGOTTEN REALMS* HOLDING MUST BE DISCARDED TO BRING SHAR INTO PLAY. SHE ABSORBS ALL OFFENSIVE SPELLS CAST AGAINST THIS PLAYER'S FORGOTTEN REALMS CHAMPIONS AND REALMS, DISPELLING OR DEFLECTING THEM AS SHE WISHES. LIMIT {BREAK} ONE AVATAR PER POOL. AD&D TU 72OF100 (before yugi was born kaiba was a character in the BLADE CHILDRENS BOX SET…what is kaiba's true name…he is wearing a mask…)-YUGO TW;_GADDO always must dye he is the one who ____ED US….”Is that it?”_”Get back UP”_and the most anoying won”EYE WHEN?!?!” why is the living day LIGHTS so hard to find…are they trying to kill MY BLOODY WIFE PP7

  • Eniliad

    That made about as much sense as your typical Michael Bay plotline.

  • ogmaster

    I find the remarks debating Spoony's opinion pretty funny. Reminds me of people that love FF8 and just hated on his FF8 videos. Anyways, I laughed as usual and that's why I watch Spoony's videos. Geez, some people need to let it go.

  • palemilktea

    A social science major myself, I feel that environmental and social issues mirrored in the film from our very real history need MORE exposure, not less. It's ironic that you bring up Native American displacement, racism, etc. All of these things are systemic plagues on our culture that will not change unless we keep pushing them to the forefront of our attention. Otherwise, they keep getting swept under the rug as 'dealt' with or 'in the past'. That is how we get people saying that racism in America no longer exists because we have a Black man as president. It's short-sighted and lacks insight. Perhaps films will stop centering around these issues once people like yourself and others like you decide that 'what they can do about it' is a line of thought worth mulling over.

    • Anonymous

      There is nothing wrong with films centering around those issues. The problem is the way Avatar went about it. The message was as subtle as a hydrogen bomb and about as nuanced. I don’t think I am wrong in hoping that if a movie is going to portray those issues, it would do so with subtlety and complexity they deserve. Otherwise, it’s just unabashed propaganda and insultingly simplistic propaganda at that.

  • palemilktea

    [I know you are a critic, and it's your right/job to criticize the flaws and failings in movies…I just feel bad when it seems that just because somebody in the media hypes up a movie like it's the second coming, you lose the ability to enjoy it for what it is =(]

    I thought this as well.

  • chewiemonster

    Havent seen it yet, not jumping out of my seat to do so either.
    Had to chip in though, my sister in law saw it and the first thing outta her mouth was
    “too much like FernGully, its likable if you can get past the preachy-ness.”

    I have to agree the guilty imperialist thing is played out, and it being often connected to white guilt is a shame cause this oppression and imperialism throughout history has come from all races and cultures. Not just Europeans.

  • Ibue

    I have not seen the movie yet but from one watch of the trailers I pretty much knew this was a “Manifest Destiny” story. Where this fails is this movie has a child target demographic, and even though adults are going to see this they are not going to be preached to, they are going to be entertained.
    Movies are entertainment first and your fictional adventures are not the place for social awareness. Reason is, no one is to a space fantasy adventure to become socially aware.
    I will see this tomorrow and I think I will still be with Spoony on this review. Movies are an escape from reality and to entertain, leave the messages out of my scifi and fantasy.
    Great rant Spoony

  • http://twitter.com/JMichaelShearer Jesse Shearer

    This is really only the second review I've heard or seen of Avatar. The impression I'm getting is that as far as showing what can be done with CGI right now, Avatar really does a good job of showing what the best can be in the right hands, but if you've seen other movies over the course of the last 25 years or so, the story's not really gong to be anything new.

    And really, it sounds like this is going to be one of those movies that's going to get shot all to hell by its own hype, which is something that I've noticed happening a lot more with movies in the last ten years or so, starting with the first of the Star Wars prequil and more recently with The Dark Knight and Avatar. In the case of the first two, now that I've got a little distance on them, I can say that Star Wars Ep 1 and Dark Knight weren't really bad bad movies, so much, but they got hyped up like mad for one reason or another and just couldn't live up to it.

    And really, I'm surprised that you guys didn't mention Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Not only was it hyped as Final Fantasy, which is what drew me in, but also as the most realistic CGI movie to date when it was released back in 2001 or whenever. It fell flat on all that hype because it turned out to be something other than what I was expecting from the title, and there were supposedly less technically sophisticated CGI films out at the time that I thought were at least as convincing, if not moreso, but now that we're a ways past it, I feel comfortable saying that I think it's still a pretty good movie in spite of its flaws.

    At any rate, I think I'll go see Avatar at the good theater here in town, even if they do wind up charging me ten bucks for a ticket. If I can get it in 3D, I'll take it, if not, at least it'll be on a good big screen.

  • adamfox

    How does this movie have a child target demographic? PG-13, pitching it in trailers as a vast sci fi action epic from the director of Titanic and Aliens, both adult films. Saying films should entertain and not have a message of any kind is insane. All great movies have messages of differing natures. Fight Club, American Beauty, Jurassic Park, Godfather, Star Wars, these are films built on morals and life lessons, which you underestimate at your peril as these messages form the foundations on which all the fun is structured…. when you make a film saying it should just entertain, it doesn't need to say anything or have a moral (or THEME, which is essentially a life lesson such as “if you do this… then…. something something, could happen to you”) then you end up with Phantom Menace, GI Joe or Transformers 2.

    • Anonymous

      Well, studios do need high budgeted movies to be PG 13 so that more younger people will go to the movie to better chances of returns. That is in place for those that do not know or care of who the director is. So yes there is a need to target younger audience. Although I would say there is a lack of toys for this movie. Maybe that will be in more of the collectors realm.
      The movies that you mentioned all do have elements of right and wrong and variations on the heros journey yes. But through good writing and directing those elements were not overtones over the entertainment value. They were instead woven in carefully so that they did not interrupt the flow of the entertaining story. If you took any morals or life lessons from them that is a bonus on top of being entertained but you are there in that theater to be entertained first as I said. And the movies you listed as being without the moral and life lessons are examples of bad writing editing and interference from directors, and studios with political agendas. Phantom Menace, has the ills of slavery, barbarous activities, complacent government and racial stereotypes, GI Joe, terrorism, transformers, terrorism and ecological destruction for the purpose of power. Although I would say GI Joe was the most entertaining of the three because it was the simplest being just a dumb movie. Sometimes you just need a dumb movie to make you laugh.

  • adamfox

    PEOPLE! get over the flaws of the film its not perfect…. so not whats important about it. see it in 3D to discover a new way of experiencing storytelling! It is pioneering new tech that will change the way worlds and stories are crafted on screen.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Books/603361378 Oliver Books

    Hmmm Spoony vs. The Cinema Snob on Avatar?

  • Anonymous

    I enjoy seeing you two talk about movies, together. You play off of each other extremely well, there’s no hostility between you two, it’s just an overall comfortable experience. You guys could be the new Siskel and Ebert of the internet. The only thing that needs to happen is your brother could work on his delivery a bit. That’s my only beef, he can sometimes come across as dull, but not so much that you can’t see his intelligence. I want to see more of this type of thing, please don’t be afraid to bring him on for these movie sessions.

  • Anonymous

    I enjoy seeing you two talk about movies, together. You play off of each other extremely well, there’s no hostility between you two, it’s just an overall comfortable experience. You guys could be the new Siskel and Ebert of the internet. The only thing that needs to happen is your brother could work on his delivery a bit. That’s my only beef, he can sometimes come across as dull, but not so much that you can’t see his intelligence. I want to see more of this type of thing, please don’t be afraid to bring him on for these movie sessions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Elliott-TenBrook/608166749 Jonathan Elliott TenBrook

    While I have felt Spoony to be the go to man for movies this year, I gotta go with Miles on this one. It could be because I didn't really catch the hype storm while it was raging. I knew Cameron was working on something but I really didn't develop interest in it until recently. I found it to be an enjoyable film. As for the heavy handed Aesops… well this is the guy who directed The Abyss. And as for morally grey or complex characters, let's not forget the rather one dimensional, forced character development from that other special effects fest, Titanic. For the same reason that Spoony could excuse the plot holes in the recent Star Trek film as “Hey, it's Trek!”, I feel that we shouldn't expect too complex a message from Cameron. And we should enjoy it for what it is. It was interesting to hear you guys discuss a film that you had different views on.

  • Lockgar

    What wrong with idea's like floating mountains now? It seems to me, no matter how much a movie tries to explain something, you will never like if it does something you believe is total fiction. Which completely undermines the entire point of fictional movies. I'm confused why you even bother with sci-fi anymore if you won't allow something like floating magnets in the sky.

    “People with the power to move things with their minds? People can't do that, you can't move things with your mind, completely unbelievable, it's crap.”

    Which I find as a huge problems with entertainment in general, it seems that nobody wants to try risky ideas, but will only attempt what is familiar and “safe” with people. It's probably why reality shows are so popular, despite them being devoid of literally nothing but people you hate.

    My point is, how can you make up any concept if it is perceived to be “Impossible, how dare you think of that, its awful because that's not possible”. That would pretty much make anything not based on a true story to be awful…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      Fiction has to persuade us to believe the “unbelievable” things. Avatar makes no such attempt.

  • slowdeath93

    UMM i guess i am one of those people that did not get the hype and yea i have kinda been living under a rock lately (not literally)

    I actually liked it and yea i have watched a lot of science fiction stories

    This story while as predictable and weird as it was, was still a very enjoyable experience

    Mr. Spoony while i enjoy what you do and your content I have to say you are being very stuck up about this movie

    It is not Ferngully, It may take an element from it and other elements from other sci fi movies but it is not as bad as Ferngully, Matrix revolution, etc.

    Spoony, I get what you are saying but umm yea I kinda feel bad that you are so negative about this film

    Oh well im not you so yea

  • LAGUNA_AND_ADELL

    Quiz/Test-What Country makes the purest gold, What Country only makes acertainreddye #, Was Core REseedingclosecaptioned a failed alcomy project because the dye # RI claims tobe CVS is still from fucking canada so that is a monoply just cause they set up camp and undersold there gold in a controlled viewing system for information, put it this way, most products are made the same way some just have spells and brain warsh,p98uyqt[i, signals…I say?<listen-the cars are 7500000000000000000000gil with shocks, sooooo good the driver is in complete comfort while the city roads are destroyed faster, are we getting stupider each year???? or is the machine making us suffer a slow painful death…I mean television is clearly reality sucked threw EVENT HORIZEN and shot INTO THE FUCKING SUN…my point is we are destroying the verything that supports us for luxiory, look around man hitler won, he just changed the races…holy shit yaknow how the machines won? be befriending us, in T-3 Sky-NET was activated when LA-D.Y. ate ATOMS power cell, 2012? Archs? pshh the point was to drop all this super fishal seasonal bullshit and work on our survival…oh and the funny thing is people don't say lullaby's anymore…a machine can't scare Lilith it cant run on Lilith even if it says lilithium, Quezacotl CANT SAVE YOUR BABIES, here in case ya'll forgot I'll start off with one “Rock a buy baby in the tree top…..” oh and I told EVE to get the fuck out the car cause thats what started this whole mess in the first place. She was tired of walking threw the garden she bit the um FF and would ya look at that a fucking SOFIA NORA the 3rd MA-01…sure I got in it alright…but we never got out.

  • kefkaesque

    While I agree that the ideas of racial tolerance and environmental issues should never be ignored, but there's a difference between talking about an issue and being preachy about it.

    Avatar is preachy in the extreme, with the Na'vi (Native Americans) being saintly, peaceful, and at one with the planet, and everyone opposing them being cartoonishly evil.

    • Anonymous

      I think you may have got too involved in there being a message. I watched this movie and didn’t constantly think “Native Americans had it tough”. I watched this movie and went “The Na’vi are having it tough, all those humans are dicks.”.

  • adamfox

    JAMES CAMERON HIMSELF JUST REPLIED TO MY ROOMMATE ON TWITTER!!!

    My friend said: “Fucking brilliant film. But why the “fight terror w/ terror” line? Didn't make sense to me. I guess Quaritch was just that crazy.”

    Cameron said: “It should not make sense; it is foremost a critique on the absurdity of an ostensible War on Terror and general militarism.”

    Just thought I'd share that awesomeness with you guys!

    • Anonymous

      Heh, ironically that is my biggest complaint, when it comes to the plot. Ignoring the fact that it’s been done, one of the big reasons that it’s been done BETTER, is that Cameron keeps mixing and mashing his symbols and analogues. Initially, the Nav’i are clearly a Native American analogue- their look, the sudden invasion from a foreign land by unknown invaders. Yet we suddenly learn about the Unobtanium under the land, and the whole story shifts to an Iraq war-based plot. Also, in my opinion, you shouldn’t be able to just shove symbolism in there. At least have them fabricating evidence linking the Navi with… something. It would still be allegorical (and no less blunt than the rest of the symolism in the movie), and it would make that line seem much more logical. It’s one thing to make a political message that logically flows with your storyline- it’s another to just shove it in when it seems convenient to do so.

      Is it a story about the Iraq war, or a story about the Indians? Cameron seems to want to have it both ways, which not only hurts the strength of the message, but it feels like in that case, he could have made it better in so many ways. (IE- get rid of the whole Avatar piece, or keep it, and just have him be captured as a human. That creates a more vague “accept eachother’s differences”, Aesop in my opinion, than what Cameron ended up doing.

  • jamespinnell

    Since when did Science FICTION need to be believable? How come you never pull down other movies for having ridiculous elements, but floating mountains and a neural networked planet is suddenly the pinnacle of stupid? Since when did fiction need to be based on reality? Isn't that the point?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “Since when did Science FICTION need to be believable?” Since forever you imbecile!

  • slowdeath93

    holy shit that is awesome lolz

  • Paper_Banjokami

    The 3D was great, and really was the point of the movie.

    You're being kind of hypocritical when you're knocking the movie for experiencing it in the unintended way, but say people shouldn't knock movies like Paranormal Activity, or Blair Witch Project without seeing it in theatres, the intended way.

    I enjoyed the movie, and laughed at it's clicheness and enjoyed it for the visual spectacle. I wasn't too amazed though, since I already saw Up in 3D, but it was still good. Nothing really annoyed me in the movie.

    I tell you what did bother me though. How none of the Na'vi women had large breasts. I mean they have sex, and are essentially humans, but stretched up. So breasts seems necessary for sex appeal between the Na'vi, so why did none of them have large breasts. They were all tiny, none of them looked over a B cup. Maybe I didn't look close enough, but come on! I wouldn't get turned on by them or anything, but big breasts are just… comforting, for lack of a better term. You know, I'd just like to be able to have looked at one of them and said “Nice”, that's all.

  • Paper_Banjokami

    The 3D was great, and really was the point of the movie.

    You're being kind of hypocritical when you're knocking the movie for experiencing it in the unintended way, but say people shouldn't knock movies like Paranormal Activity, or Blair Witch Project without seeing it in theatres, the intended way.

    I enjoyed the movie, and laughed at it's clicheness and enjoyed it for the visual spectacle. I wasn't too amazed though, since I already saw Up in 3D, but it was still good. Nothing really annoyed me in the movie.

    I tell you what did bother me though. How none of the Na'vi women had large breasts. I mean they have sex, and are essentially humans, but stretched up. So breasts seems necessary for sex appeal between the Na'vi, so why did none of them have large breasts. They were all tiny, none of them looked over a B cup. Maybe I didn't look close enough, but come on! I wouldn't get turned on by them or anything, but big breasts are just… comforting, for lack of a better term. You know, I'd just like to be able to have looked at one of them and said “Nice”, that's all.

  • someguy21

    I must say Spoony, I am very disappointed in this review. I think if you have seen one to many movies to compare it to other ones then you really need to take a step back. No offense, but its unique, brilliant, and great. James Cameron has directed a masterpiece. The cinema visuals have surpassed most other films to date and the beautiful world of Pandora is something to behold. Yes it may have similarities to other movies but its not cliched or pointed out. I sometimes forget that your a movie critic as well so I'm probably wasting my time posting this.

  • pkhtjim

    I thought the movie was great in 3D. It just so happened to be my first 3D movie, so it happened to work really well. I don't know why the hate for it. Sure it's borrowed elements are obvious, but maybe you should try to see it in 3D instead of the normal version.

  • pkhtjim

    That's cool to know he cares about little explanations.

  • Skywalkersc

    i have to apologize to you brother for my other comment because he had actual complaint and wasnt just tearing it apart for no reason like spoony

  • Anonymous

    I really have to agree with Spoony on this one. His brothers points were valid and did make me think more positively about the film but, my reaction and the entertaining experience that I was supposed to take away from the movie at the time of watching made me more angry than anything else. I wasn’t angry because of what was going on in the movie, I was angry because this movie, this experience that I paid for, was trying to treat me like a fucking idiot! My question: On top of this (lack of) entertainment, you’re giving me a plot that stunk worse than a whores armpit!?!?! Are you serious? I paid for this??? (Yeah, that’s what I thought to myself during and after watching the movie)James Cameron should’ve learned a lesson from Titanic. I guess he sort of did, he learned how to make loads of money without actually making an entertaining movie. His Terminator and Aliens days are long over and so we’re left with something less than “popcorn” worthy and even less campy so as to make the film not fun. The graphics were quite a spectacle, but I’d much rather be playing video games than spend the time watching this movie since it’s basically a “pay for” lecture, something along the lines of paying for a seminar on how to alleviate depression, just pay $10.99 and read this here book, or watch this here video… that’s about as much entertainment I got out of this poor excuse for a movie. It’s not all bad though, Avatar is better than watching your own hair grow for 2 hours and 40 mins…

  • Ansatsu2478

    Pretty average movie, I pretty much agree with you Spoony, but I also see where your brother is coming from. I came into this movie expecting your typical Pocahontas story, so I knew I wasn't going to be blown away. They pretty much spoiled the entire plot of the movie in the trailer anyway.

    I also saw it in 3D, and I really don't think you guys missed much. In fact, I even agree with you that 2 hours was way too damn much for 3D. I had a god damn splitting headache afterwards. It didn't feel like much of a 3D movie either since I don't remember many scenes that really blew me away on the 3D thing (I haven't watched many 3D movies either, so I don't think I'm that hard to impress)

    The final battle was great. I kind of hated the romance that they had to put into the story though. I mean, they're FREAKING ALIENS. Why would they express intimacy by kissing on the lips? How do we know that they dont express love through wagging their tails or some other crap? I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one feeling a bit awkward when it happened because my friends next to me started facepalming themselves.

    I mean, I know that the aliens already have a western influence on them already (hence, why some of the elder people speak english), but come on now really. I really doubt that theres any explanation for this other than to just put in romance in a story that doesn't need it. Its probably what they should've cut out since the movie is already way too damn long anyway, and it didn't really serve an impact on the plot.

    And I'm a bit surprised you guys didn't get a chance to mention the god awful ending. Like how the hell the female alien managed to not only FIND Sam Worthington's human body in the chamber next to her and RECOGNIZE him as Jake Sully, but she also knew to give the guy a god damn breathing mask because apparently she knows that humans can't live in that kind of atmosphere. Who says indigenous people are uneducated, eh? Bah.

    But yeah, the spectacle was nice. I'm sure you've seen a lot of other stupider things in sci-fi movies besides floating mountains Spoony.

  • ImpudentInfidel

    T2 and Aliens knew they were cheesy and didn't care. This movie has a “message” that everyone learned a hundred fricken years ago that it won't shut up about. It almost seems to resent having action sequences, and runs them in the least satisfying way possible. The movies this one rips off are dances with wolves a little, but mostly Last Samurai and Ferngully. None of those were any good story-wise either.

  • RobertBOBBY

    Wow you went and saw this movie and didn't see it in 3-D. Thats like watching porn on a blocked channel! You get a fair idea of whats going on but you cant really make anything out (referring to a visual standpoint of course). And then you complain about how the forest wasn't all that impressive… I agree though 2012 was way more impressive and better just like Godzilla and Independence Day oh and don't forget Star Wars Episode 1. Yeah right! It seems pretty clear that you let the hype surrounding this movie get to you. You went into this movie expecting it to be amazing, then when it didn't reach your impossibly high standards you nitpick every little thing about the movie. You let yourself be set up for disappointment, and worst of all you never gave the movie a chance. I mean you didn't even view it in 3-D, the way James Cameron meant for it to be seen. I really do respect your opinions and usually tend to agree with them, but this is ridiculous. I'm not comparing this movie to Star Wars, but the way you have nitpicked a perfectly enjoyable and groundbreaking (from a film making perspective) film, leads me to believe that you could do the same to A New Hope.

  • mrbigstuff

    are you serious??? 3D is going to make this more entertaining for a person who ultimately didn't enjoy the plot??? Have you actually thought about what you're saying? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic, I just can't believe that's an honest comment. I don't want to insult your or your intelligence but look at it this way, taking a film that you think is great and then remastering, remixing it, and making it 3D **”might”** make it better, but taking a film that you think is shit and then doing all of the above and making it 3D might make it look better but doesn't make it a better movie. If you thought it was crap without 3D it's still crap, only it's 3D crap.

  • Skywalkersc

    i don't think it has that saving the forest message i rather think it has a respect other peoples stuff and believr even if you dont agree message and this movie knows its cheezie to its just a movie cameron wanted to make since hes 14 and you really can see that he loves this movie. its not the best movie ever but sure its the best this year

  • dragonfly82

    Just came back from watching it (3-D)
    I kinda it like, but it was nothing memorable.

    It might be the fact that the story was pretty weak,
    like a blend of Pocahontas-Ferngully-Dance with Wolves.

    The anti-Imperialism Propaganda didn't bother me at all,

    I'm kinda surprised of the things you disliked…
    we have a world filled with blue aliens and Pterodactyls and you hated the floating islands….WTF……
    it kinda makes you look like a cinema snob.

    It's a Sci-Fi Flick, enjoy it!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Josh-Martin/507578975 Josh Martin

    Spoony, you're pretty nitpicky so thanks for allowing me to enjoy the movie a lot better after listening to your pretentious rant.

    • Anonymous

      How horrible of him to have told what he thought about it like people wanted him to! The nerve of people these days, I can’t stand it!

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Josh-Martin/507578975 Josh Martin

        Where did I indicate that I didn’t want Spoony’s opinion? It’s pretty obvious that he’s a bit of a movie snob. Nothing to be ashamed of.

  • pkhtjim

    The plot may have been cliche as to what Cameron admits, but the 3D viewing made everything work. I found myself to recommend the movie to a few friends and they're gonna see it with me on Monday night. Perhaps you may be right about it being meant to be watched in 3D, but I enjoyed it as such. It would seem that people would just love this movie or hate it, it seems.

  • morritan

    It has similar elements of other films so you think it isn't original? You have to mix paints to get different colours. Green is very different from yellow, but it has yellow in it.

    I never once thought 'the matrix' during Avatar simply because there is mechs. There are plenty of films that have mechs. Hell, James Cameron had a giant mech in Aliens, long before The Matrix.

  • Anonymous

    I can come up with some pretty good scientific explanations for their hair nervous system link and the bio-luminescent forest (as bio-luminescence is actually a very real thing), but I cannot come up with any good explanation for why Sigourney Weaver was holding her eppendorf pipette the way she was. Horrible pipetting technique!

  • Alpha_Ryvius

    Just came back from the watching James Cameron’s Avatar and for me the movie was on the “meh” side. For me the best way to describe Avatar is that it’s a mix of an after school psa, Dance’s with Wolves on an alien world, and Cameron’s secret furry fetish all wrapped in gourmet eye candy. Once I got past the visuals of this film, which didn’t take long, I got bored very quickly.

    I equate Avatar to receiving a handjob from someone who has no idea what the hell they are doing and the only reason why you bear with it is because of the climax you receive at the end but at the same time whatever joy you get is taken away by the ungodly amount of frustration and boredom you had to put up with in order to get it.

    I feel the worse part of this movie is the positive reviews that critics are giving this movie, honestly I think they are in a bad case of denial. That just because Cameron made one movie that made boatloads, pardon the expression, of money and won some awards for it he can not do any wrong. Well guess what, he did do wrong, a massive big no-no, and it’s name is Avatar.

  • http://twitter.com/Sparky_Dalus Dalus

    The Last Samurai “ripped off” Dances With Wolves, so you're saying it's a rip-off of a rip-off? Also, I don't think anyone would have even thought about Ferngully had Spoony not suggested it himself, and Spoony is really grabbing at straws here. “The mech suits look the same as the ones in Matrix Reloaded…” Huh. Yeah, I guess if you mean they both have arms and legs. :/

  • arc22

    hey spoony just watched your vid, now in my opinion only this is my new fav movie i thought it was well done in almost every way i loved the effects and landscape of the film but i definatly agree with you about the weird hair tentacle thing when i saw that i was just like “umm wtf that seems over the top ” it would off been better and more realistic if they just trained the the things and thats it , the floating mountains the could of done with out as well or at least explained why they were floating. other than that your review was enjoyable and arguments well presented and valid thanks for your hard work

  • brodkil

    Well, at this point in the thread I doubt I can add to the discussion other than saying this: seriously, Spoony, what makes you happy?

    Suspension of disbelief problems? I really have a hard time believing that it was easier in the days of puppets, makeup, sets, and rubber suits to get into a sci-fi movie. Regardless, those days are over, and they weren't all that great to begin with. Star Wars may have been a wowy-zowy movie, but it also ran on the strength of its effects. The basic story is nothing we haven't seen in a hundred fantasy stories before it. The story was simple. Even The Empire Strikes Back was simple, though darker and delivering that (in)famous revelation.

    Nitpick: which, if you think about it, brings up the question of how Darth Vader knew Luke was his son when A) he was doing his best to kill him in the first movie (what happened between movies to change Vader's mind?) and B) the prequels established that Vader believed his child (he didn't know it was twins) was dead.

    The point of my nitpick is that the so-called movies we love and hold up as the gold standard of blockbuster sci-fi are just as generic and flawed as some of these new ones. They just do what they do well. Avatar, IMHO, had a serviceable story, excellent visuals, and entertained me. I knew about the hype, but these days if you don't have a hype-filter installed in your brain I fear for your sanity. Hype is like background noise to me.

    I've agreed with you on most of your reviews on the movies this year. Transformers 2, for example, was annoying to say the least. But I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you on this one, Spoony.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “Spoony, what makes you happy?” He liked District 9, Paranormal activity and Inception. Your argument is invalid.

  • ChargingSeahawk

    Look Spoony, I usually like your stuff (a lot) but here you are just being ignorant. You complain about the plot. Fine. But you Cannot complain that it wasn't a visual spectacle when you didn't see it in 3D!!!! The new 3D camera designed while making this movie was the whole damn point!!!

    Your biggest complaint is the lack of immersion into the story, and believability of the setting. Well honestly the whole problem is you didn't see it in 3D! The 3D isn't cheesy, it doesn't hurt your eyes and is not a “cheap gimmick”. The whole point of the 3D in this movie was to immerse yourself in the world. It made the world entirely believable and made it feel like you were there. The whole point of this movie was not to have a groundbreaking plot, but to be able to immerse yourself in such an imaginative alien world due to the new 3D camera, and in this regard the movie succeeded immensely.

    I can't really take your review seriously because of this, and damn was it dumb to not go see it in 3D.

    • Anonymous

      Why should a person have their opinion swayed just because of a 3D gimmick? Shouldn’t the movie be judged on its lasting potential and not something you’ll only see in theaters?

  • PhoenixForce20

    My theory on the hair tentacle thing:

    In biology and evolution, generally, when you have a feature that is universally featured amongst many species, it's because an early common ancestor developed it and as the species split off from that early common ancestor, they kept that feature.

    What could have happened with the hair tentacles, is that there was a primitive species which developed this system as a 6th sense of communication. Like with neurons forming synapses with other neurons, these tentacles act the same way and form synapses with other creatures tentacles and information can travel between as it does with the nervous system.

    The mountains, the only thing I can think of is maybe something magnetic.

  • http://twitter.com/Sparky_Dalus Dalus

    Here's another thing… Okay, the movie cost like 300 million to make, and they wanna make that money back. The movie isn't going to try to have a ridiculously complex plot that some people aren't going to be able to follow. It's gonna stick with something everyone can understand, and then get into the action. Is the story derivative? Yes. Does it serve its purpose? Yes. Does it have any real plot holes, or otherwise leave any questions unanswered? None that I can think of.

    Furthermore, does anyone really want to try and deny that visually, this movie is a work of art? If it succeeds on that level, and the story isn't too contrived to be intrusive, why not enjoy it for what it is, rather than complain about what it's not? It's eye candy, and by the truckload.

    • Anonymous

      i’d really like to know where all that 300 million went, was it that expensive to animate? this is the same problem I had with the other matrix films, they were very expensive and their special effects were garbage. granted the special effects in this aren’t garbage, but I still felt like I was watching a cartoon. not that i dont like cartoons I just don’t see why you would spend 300 million to animate one.

  • redpoet2

    Okay, I admit this wasn't the greatest movie in cinema histroy…. but it didn't suck. I enjoyed it… a lot.
    The plot was used before, but what plot hasn't?
    The acting was brilliant, as you pointed out by a lot of the characters
    The music was okay, it could have been a lot better, but it also could have been alot worse…

    seriously, it wasn't HORRIBLE… but then again, I usually like most movies I see, but I still know when I see a bad movie, and this to me wasn't that bad a movie.

    Citizen Kane its not, but its not Twilight, or worse, Transformers! D:

  • superhyperduck

    amen spoony. I saw it in 3d and yeah it does add more weight to the cgi and if I had just stuck my fingers in my ears I would've really enjoyed it but the first overtly, (I can't afford an operation maybe teh gobment should pay) was errrr!!! my ears, then the whole weee need oil (unubtainum) ahhhhh!! then fight terror with terror (you mean fight massive unification with perceived intentions with terror) PREEMPTIVE STRIKE SHOCK AND AWE! AHHHHHH! STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT! I wan'ted to rip off someone's face for the crappy writing. but I disagree on the floating mountains, that is in a lot of anime and it is neat and dream like, I guess they had unubtainum suspending them and the water fall I can understand as forming from some insane amount of precipitation, I can excuse the science ficitiony part of it, but yeah the plugging in thing was just dumb why would other animals need that? So they can all serve the huminoid navi? the tree thing is neeto but still why? we have a connection with nature, no literally a connection with nature we can talk to nature and I don't just mean in a “tree hugger” we destroyed the earth stop it cameron! this isn't cameron's only preachy film, abyss too but i liked abyss cause it saved the preachy stuff for the end, this one couldn't wait to shove it in your face.

  • superhyperduck

    yeah cause that whole 911 thing was an inside job, * sarcasm!* yeah so is James a 911 troofer?

  • http://twitter.com/EpicCardboard Epic Cardboard

    Some of you people are seriously overreacting. Spoony didn't like the movie. Big deal. Everyone has opinions. He stated his reasons for not liking it. For you people who seriously think this is one of the best movies you have ever seen in your life, you really need to see more movies. The visuals are fantastic, yes, but the movie itself is pretty much average at best.

    • JBomb

      Wow, So you state that everyone has an opinion. Big deal. Then you work to invalidate the opinion of anyone who enjoyed the movie?

      Seriously, how does that work?
      I guess it still depends on who you are, in relation to how valid your opinion is.

      As for the movie. Yes, the story is old hat. But the movie as a whole did it’s job. I was thoroughly entertained for a couple of hours. I’ll agree on the point that the hype was rather ridiculous.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

        He absolutely didn’t “invalidate the opinion of anyone who enjoyed the movie” only the nutjobs who thought it was the bets movie EVARRR!!! Learn how to read thank you.

  • http://twitter.com/Sparky_Dalus Dalus

    I am so glad someone else decided to bring up the fact that the Transformers movies are absolute garbage. I wasn't sure what people would think if I praised one popcorn flick while I bashed another, but the Transformers movies are just shear abominations. Spoony might think that Avatar insults peoples' intelligence, but Transformers just assumes that everyone is a drooling retard with ADD.

    • Anonymous

      But Spoony doesn’t like the Transformers movies either. Him not liking Avatar just means he has a higher bar for great movies than other people. I’m not saying that having a low bar is bad either or a medium bar, means you can enjoy more stories.

  • joshjeffcoat

    While I haven't seen “Avatar” yet (and I don't plan on it), hearing Spoony's reasons for disliking it turns me away from it even more. Spoony, you're awesome; I'm a big fan and I thoroughly enjoy what you do. To all you people out there who insult Spoony or rant against him just because he has a different opinion than you, that's immature. Grow up.

    But, Spoony, dood, “Avatar” sounds like it blows pretty hard. Tentacle-hair-USB-connections are pretty lame and the plot just sounds awful. Unobtainium…honestly, James Cameron? Couldn't you think of something a bit more creative than Unobtainium? This movie does seem like a furfag's wet dream come true and I'm glad you dissuaded me from ever going to see it, Spoony. Thank you. I know that may sound sarcastic, but I'm being dead serious.

    And I couldn't stand Dances with Wolves; how the hell does Cameron expect people to suffer through another hyped-up version of it?

  • superhyperduck

    did anyone else feel like the navi were a little like the naboo in star wars, i mean especially the blue chick's mother?

  • morritan

    I don't think Spoony you realise that these directors aren't completely dumb and are self aware. Cameron himself has said it's a classic “going native” story and even compared it to Dances With Wolves among other films. Just search it in google and you can find the stories. That's the story he wanted to tell, and I didn't really see anything wrong with it. I didn't find it preachy at all. All the 'messages' were more of plot points adapted from our own world.

    The reason why I'm so fervent in my defense of Avatar is because of this irrational hatred for it. So what if it was hyped? I saw the hype. I still was really anticipating its realise, but not because everyone else seemed to like the look of it but because I LIKED THE LOOK OF IT, no one else. Even if no one ends up liking it, I still love it. I can think of few other films that I would watch instead of it. And Spoony, if this does well, this will lead the way for many more science fiction films (my favourite genre) that will be made because of the studios wanting to cash in on the science fiction craze fueled by the recent films like Avatar and District 9.

    Another reason why I defend it is because so many of you are quick to accept Spoony's view and plan to not go see it. I HATE THAT! I never bash a film before watching it. How can you dislike something you haven't seen!

    • Anonymous

      I think spoony probably goes to the movies for the same reason i do, I want to escape our current reality in a film, not be shown our exact situation in the future with blue people. It isn’t very creative anyone can do that. In a movie like the original starwars it shows a past situation (nazis) and making analogies its more enjoyable because its in the past either way your escaping to something that isn’t your current situation. but like the current starwars they felt it necessary to draw on our current situation and say something. If a director wants to say something about our current situation save it for the end and let me have some escape, otherwise I’m getting a baseball bat to the face and it doesn’t feel good.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t see why everyone is getting so worked up by the message!? It’s the audience that draws the conclusion of ‘it’s like the native americans!’. It never once says that. If you didn’t know about american history then you wouldn’t have got that and it would have just been a story. It’s not preachy its just a god damn story!

        • Anonymous

          the native american part didn’t really bother me that much, it was at the end the lets make native american’s the Iraqis, one analogy is enough you don’t need to just tack on stuff attached to the current climate, I actually probably would have enjoyed it more if they had just stuck to one point in history instead of meshing everything together. And it is preachy when you link everything together by saying war on terror! when the navi didn’t terrorize anyone! Also its basically just white people that are evil in this movie, which ok in natives vs. whites I get that, if the movie is about native american history but still don’t you think its a little racist to suggest that white people have been and always will be evil? Why aren’t their any mixed races in the future?

          it isn’t a bad movie either it has its moments but all the analogies like health care, Iraq war, oil, Venezuela, (really we didn’t resolved that until way in the future like this movie is supposed to be?), also, bad economy, killing the earth, a link to nature, not liking someone else’s religion, all tie in today, its not escapist. Some people may enjoy it for that reason, I don’t and it doesn’t appear spoony does either, if you like the movie its not a bad thing, I personally don’t go to the movie to look at our current situation I go to look at an escape from our current situation, when times are tough I want to escape not be reminded how bad things really are.

  • androne

    Unobtanium is actually a term used by people to refer to theoretical materials when they are brainstorming about future designs, where they need something to fill a specific purpose but it hasn't been created yet. James Cameron just turned it into an actual mineral – which he never went on to specify the purpose of. lol

  • superhyperduck

    oh spoony you forgot stargate too

  • superhyperduck

    and star ship troopers

  • murderouscow

    Thank you Spoony. At least one person on this earth agrees with me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1518810661 facebook-1518810661

    Somehow I managed to avoid almost all hype for this movie; really I had only seen two threads out of various forums, and literally no advertisements. I think I agree with your opinion on 2012 for this one. Yeah itw as a bad movie, but at least it was entertaining.

    I didn't really agree that it was too long, although I had to make three popcorn trips, so maybe those breaks from science fantasy helped me not to notice.

  • snakestealth24

    I have to respectively disagree with you Spoony (btw 3-d really has a great affect in this movie). Your opinion I find is to be very american. The whole thing you get pissed off about it being preachy I didn't find. It tells though the human history of war it's usually started by someone having something someone else wants so they go to war to get it and it justifies it. To be honest if you view this movie is preaching against the so called evil americans well good. America needs to see itself other than the good guy because sometimes it's the bad guy. I know I'm probably going to get a lot of hate mail for that comment but hey there I said it. The visuals were great and the story may be long I found it to paced very well. So there I said my peace BRING ON THE HATE MAIL PEOPLE!!!

  • http://twitter.com/J_Masterbassist J_Masterbassist

    I just saw this movie and to keep this post form taking up an entire page of comments I'll just shorten it by saying I'm in total agreement with all Spoony's negative points on this film. The difference though is I don't give these same negative points as much weight with most films.

    The one point I will give a lot of weight to is…yeah, this was Ferngully. No doubt. Just swap out the evil pollutant villain and insert a stereotypical drill sergeant marine and you've got it. The entire movie was about making sure you get the message that the white colored red blooded Americans are evil and out to kill anybody that gets in the way of their agenda. Just like real life, right? *play clip of project supervisor fake nodding then laughing

    For that reason, I can not possible consider this movie “good” at all. HOWEVER, I was fully prepared to say this was an OK movie considering the incredible CGI effects and, in my opinion, excellent action scenes until one fucking line!:

    Segourny Weaver saying, “She's real”.

    FUCK YOU MOVIE! I was going to be nice. I was going to put aside my political beliefs and try to be fair and say that this was an OK movie that might be worth watching but then I finally realized what's going on here.

    This isn't an environmental film, this is a religious film. “Mother Nature” isn't just a loose term to describe the natural order and life on our planet, “Mother Nature” is God to them. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So we shouldn't just respect nature, be wise about how we use our resources, and think about the effects of our actions. NO. We should bow down and worship the Earth for it is the Lord. Be mindless and do as the environmental prophets tell you. Always take the side of the environmentalist for their's is the divine path. No I'm not talking about the Na'va people, I'm talking about all those responsible for that message getting into the film. THAT is what they hope everyone watching will take from this. You think that's all insane? Go google “Gaia worship”. Its quite big in Hollywood.

    Man this just pisses me right the fuck off I can't even begin to tell you. They use a fake people on a fake planet with a fake LITERAL biological connection to nature in order to make you feel bad as if the “connection” to nature people claim is real in the literal biological sense as well. There's a term for that….oh whats it called…..damn its used on the internet all the time….uh….oh yeah STRAW MAN!!!! Yeah let's set up a fake culture on a fake planet with a type of connection that you couldn't argue against in that setting and try to say it exists in reality. To those of you who think its a great thing that stuff like this is made to promote environmental issues…..do you really want your ideas being promoted in such a way? Is that really what you want your side to look like to others? Because to me they seem like cultists fear and guilt to bring in converts. Wouldn't you rather convince people through honest and rational means?

    Fuck if I keep going this post will never end. I'll just end with this…..

    If you have any issue with “preachyness” at all, I mean at all, don't watch this movie. You might want to see it for the, admittedly, incredible CGI but I'm warning you….their “message” is consistent throughout the film and only gets worse towards the end.

  • http://twitter.com/J_Masterbassist J_Masterbassist

    Dammit I'm not done.

    For a movie that's supposed to be pushing tolerance and understanding of other cultures, there is one culture that was completely misunderstood. Is this really how they view military types? I don't think I have ever seen a feature film that was so blatantly hateful and stereotypical towards the military in my life.

    Bravo movie. Let's all hold hands and get along, as long as we all hate this one group here. If we can all agree on which group to hate, we'll truly have piece and end violence forever.

    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal then others” -George Orwell

    Damn you movie, I wanted to like you so bad. There were actually interesting moments. I tried to let myself get sucked in but just as I was about to……”she's real” and then you fucking ruin it.

  • Sypher1

    Saw the movie and had about the same “this is it” reaction as Spooney. Yes the visual effects are great and its about as lifelike as a cgi character can get and in that regard it is a success. However, I am kind of bothered by the fact that cameron basically admitted he was just recycling a cliched story and coating it with eye candy. What exactly is the lesson here, you don't need a good story just good visuals? Is this the future of filmaking that the ads told me this movie was forging? As for the allegory, its something that I think this movie creates somewhat unintentionally due to the fact its plot is base on the story of evil empire vs innocent natives. People will draw thier own conclusions and make connections that might not have been intended. That being said, cameron is definatly not one to leave his views out of his movies and some of the characters and dialogue in this movie particular are about as subtle as a nuked fridge. As far as other Spooney complaints, the floating islands I'll give a mulligan because they looked nice and there are blue people walking around. The usb hair could have been changed to something more believable like some kind of pores on the hands that could connected to tree or animal like morpheous in the spider man cartoon. Something that just didn't seem silly like I-pod hair. I kind of also don't like the fact that the scientists are kind of shown in a very positive light considering they are making frankenstien abomination clones of the native pandorans and everybody is okay with this. Also unobtanium is a stupid and I know its meaning and application to sci fi but its still stupid.

  • snakestealth24

    Umm this movie established that these guys were mercs in the beginning. It's not a view that the military is evil it's a view about how these mercs were willing to wipe out a people for financial gain.

  • batotaku13

    wow, i am hugely disappointed by this movie. Spoony's “that's it” reaction perfectly describes me watching it. my biggest problem is that everybody is so clearly good or clearly evil no character ever becomes interesting.

  • http://twitter.com/J_Masterbassist J_Masterbassist

    Alright I'll give you that. But it was only mentioned in the beginning and perhaps hinted at again when that one pilot said “I didn't sign up for this”. It still gave off that impression and most people are going to walk away remembering white people in military uniforms with big guns and helicopters. And they're only white to make sure you get the connection with Americans.

    You don't think their behavior was insulting stereotypical military marine behavior? Even the Colonel bad guy character? I swear I was watching Small Soldiers there for a while.

    • Anonymous

      Not to mention that even if it were some government military, the soldiors don’t have much choice in what they are ordered to do. Now I’ve only spoken to a few soldions but one thing that seems pretty consistent is that when you are ordered to do something, you do it. You have it drilled into you that, your superior officers have more info than you, you do what you are told.

      I think this is illustrated in the scene where the guy is driving the bulldozer through the forest. The guy seems more like a civilian technician, so he hasn’t received the same indoctrination that the soldiers have and he hesitates. The individual soldiers might not wont fire on civilians but they don’t have much of a choice. at least in there minds.

  • sheeraz1

    I am really glad your review came out a bit late and not on opening day. Otherwise I wouldn't have seen this movie. It's also ironic how everybody praised “The Departed” to be a masterpiece but it was a carbon copy of “Infernal Affairs”. Hypocrisy at its best really.

    The way you go after this movie is quite sad. I paid the same $10 at the cinema for transformers 2 and for this movie. Any who thinks Avatar doesn't provide amazing value for its ticket price simply doesn't know what other crap there is at the cinemas these days. Or would you perhaps spend $9 on “Have you met the morgans”? The way you have criticized this movie makes me think so.

    I really love your videos but this review of yours have left me feeling bitter and disappointed. I am glad your brother at least saw some value in the movie.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “The way you go after this movie is quite sad. I paid the same $10 at the cinema for transformers 2 and for this movie. Any who thinks Avatar doesn’t provide amazing value for its ticket price simply doesn’t know what other crap there is at the cinemas these days. Or would you perhaps spend $9 on “Have you met the morgans”? The way you have criticized this movie makes me think so.”
      Off course!!! As long as you can name other movies that are worse it proves that this movie is good! Wait a minute that doesn’t make any sense at all…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “The way you go after this movie is quite sad. I paid the same $10 at the cinema for transformers 2 and for this movie. Any who thinks Avatar doesn’t provide amazing value for its ticket price simply doesn’t know what other crap there is at the cinemas these days. Or would you perhaps spend $9 on “Have you met the morgans”? The way you have criticized this movie makes me think so.”
      Off course!!! As long as you can name other movies that are worse it proves that this movie is good! Wait a minute that doesn’t make any sense at all…

  • snakestealth24

    Well yeah the marine behavior was stereotypical marines but to be a merc really you have to have a love for war and killing. Yeah it was over the top butt it kinda added a bit of humor that spoony mentioned. You can make the connection with americans just because their white with big guns. Well hell it could be canadians and americans for all we know, mercenary comapnies are made up of different nationalities and some companies can include mainly white.

  • NobleSavageMyth

    Forget this movie. Let's talk about that burger. Mmmm, it does look good!

  • NobleSavageMyth

    Forget this trash movie. Let's talk about that burger instead. Mmmmm, sure does look good!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Casey-Goddard/634271938 Casey Goddard

    “Parker” is the name of the other female spaceship crew member in the first Alien film. That's probably why the name rang a bell when you were watching Avatar.

  • Strannik01

    Well, technically, it's purpose is revealed in supplementary materials. Basically, it generates electromagnetic fields that interfere with gravity. It's what makes the rocks float and what makes the interstellar ships fly.

    Mind you, unobtanium is still a pretty daft name.

    Strannik

  • RHCZ

    Though i disagree with you're overall opinion, i agree with some nitpick points and enjoyed watching your review nonetheless.

    Though I kinda liked the whole “literally they are ONE with nature” aspect. Not because it's great or anything, just because I wasn't expecting it and, after a while, I became accustomed to it and found it to be a pretty interesting idea. Sure, when they first tried it out with the whole “jack your ponytail into a horse-thing to ride it” I was like WHAT THE FUCK!? But then as the movie went on and the guy tried to get a dragon, I grew accustomed to it. It's like the creatures are some sort of strange nature robots. I dunno. Suspension of disbelief is required in vast amounts.

    Point is, i enjoyed it.

  • Anonymous

    I find it rather funny that Spoony complains about the realism of a floating mountain and waterfalls when this film takes place on an entire different planet. Also cracks me up considering that a movie he enjoyed(2012) had a tiny personal airplane weaving through crumbling skyscrapers dropping debris right over the plane(let it dodges each piece with perfect agility)

    IMO this movie was very long, but it for me it didn’t go at a snail’s pace like 2012 did.

    Still love your reviews.

  • http://twitter.com/J_Masterbassist J_Masterbassist

    In his top 5 video Benzaie calls this movie “THE blockbuster of the 2k's. Like Terminator 2 from the 90's, Robocop from the 80's, and Star Wars from the 70's”.

    I got to admit, I love the differences between the different TGWTG hosts. I don't know why people would bash one for being different than the other. I can't believe Benzaie thought that highly of it but really, that's awesome he thinks so differently. I'd love to hear some of his reasons though.

  • Reina_Vash

    When I saw the previews of this movie I knew it would be a beautiful world such as the lovely times of James Cameron. It certainly does look lovely however it does have a weak story and easy to get. Even from the trailers they say the whole storyline.

    I completely did NOT like the whole literally “connect” with nature. It makes the Navi less life like and more like robots on a robot planet. I do like the creatures themselves. The hair definitely needed to change though but it did come from James Cameron who does good job with looks. Like he did in “The Abyss” with the water creature scene. He does do a good job, but the story is just iffy. I mean it’s passable but it feels like it was done half-assed. I was somewhat disappointed because I saw an epic, picturesque, world with an amateur story.

    For eye candy it’s worth seeing, but for plot and story not so much. Not to mention the characters. I find them to be kinda stereotypical. Another point for half-assedness! Anyways, I did enjoy it only for looks. Like I do for girls! =P (Katy Perry “I kissed a girl” coming to mind? That’s right I did it and I liked it too). =D

    Good review! Keep up the good work!

  • Anonymous

    Spoonster, I agree. The movie was underwhelming. Didn’t live to the hype. Wasn’t in any way remarkable. You’re not crazy Spoony, your criticism stands. I had the same problems with the movie.

  • HaXenkk

    I have to bank more on Miles' view of the film. The movie had it's share of problems. The plot was very predictable, without any real suspense. Especially after what happened with Grace and the tree, it was pretty obvious what would happen to the main character. (It was just a question whether he'd get there in good health or mortally wounded) The cast's performance was not all that magnificent, except for Sam Worthington, mostly. But it wasn't horrible, either. I disliked the preachiness too but I didn't feel that it detracted horribly from the film. It just made for cheesy moments. (We're gonna fight terror, with terror.)

    I didn't really know anything about this movie, except that it was about some blue aliens and was supposed to be really hyped. I think the 'hype machine' damages the movie's enjoyability, but ensures large audiences. Kind of like what happened with Paranormal Activity. I went to see that one without any knowledge of it beforehand and enjoyed it quite a bit.

    Anyway, got sidetracked there… I went to see it in 3-D and I gotta say, it was a stunning experience visually. I had not seen a movie in 3-D before and was very pleasantly surprised. I think if the technology can be applied to better storytelling elements, then there will be some magnificent movie experiences yet to come. Overall, I recognize the faults but still managed to enjoy it.

    P.S. The water in the floating mountains would probably come from the clouds, which are all around them. And in the movie, it is seen that the water from the waterfalls dissolves back into mist, thus returning to the clouds.

    • Anonymous

      Wait… Why did the water dissolve into mist?

      • Anonymous

        I dunno. I don’t know how water behaves when falling from waterfalls, but I’d assume it doesn’t all just drop straight to the ground from such a height. Plus, the planet had some toxic gases and such, so the atmosphere might not be exactly the same as on Earth. But I’d suspect it was mostly a visual effect, and not thought completely through.

      • Anonymous

        I dunno. I don’t know how water behaves when falling from waterfalls, but I’d assume it doesn’t all just drop straight to the ground from such a height. Plus, the planet had some toxic gases and such, so the atmosphere might not be exactly the same as on Earth. But I’d suspect it was mostly a visual effect, and not thought completely through.

  • OneFreeMan

    @ Mystery21 “I find it rather funny that Spoony complains about the realism of a floating mountain and waterfalls when this film takes place on an entire different planet.”
    Well, if there is not a good, explained reason for floating mountains, they are plain ridiculous (and the movie gave no explanations for them). So yes, it's hard to chew that. No matter on which planet you're on that can't happen – the laws of physics are applied everywhere. The planet ecology can be different and strange because life on other planets could have developed differently than on our planet, but still has to be in some way believable. The usb-plug-hair was not believable.

  • snake219

    Alright Spoony? I've been following your site for 2 years now and this is my first comment, its been a long time coming I know. I love all your videos and agree with you on most things almost 100% of the time. So here goes.

    I haven't actually seen the movie yet so Im not going to flame it, but one thing I will say is that I agree especially with Spoony's view that people should not be lectured to when seeing a movie. When I see a movie I want to be entertained, I don't care about which side of the political spectrum a movie is basing itself on, I couldn't care less. Sure if the film makers make the message as subtle as possible thats alright, I don't mind that, but don't shove your views in my face and tell me 'this is wrong' and 'this should be the ways things work' because its really off putting. I'm not saying this about Avatar, as I said I haven't seen it yet but I'm saying this about movies in general.

    According to some people, other than Spoony, this movie is not very subtle when it comes to preaching against the Iraq War. Regardless about what people think about the Iraq War or the War on Terror for that matter, once again when it comes to movies I just don't care. I want to entertained, not told by some liberal or conservative film maker whats right and whats wrong, let the audience decide that without the help of a one-sided preachy movie. I know it sounds like I'm flaming Avatar but this has to said, I go to see movies to try and enjoy them and not be influenced about what to protest against.

    As for the 3D aspect of the movie I'm looking forward to seeing the format as I've never seen a 3D movie before. For a first time experience it should be amazing. One thing I will say about 3D though is that I don't think the format is the future of cinema. The NC said it best when he said that if you are going to use motion capturing why not just use real actors. 3D and special effects do not make a movie good, its the story and its characters that make a movie worth watching. But hey thats just what I think, anyone else agree?

    I'm still going to see Avatar regardless of what Spoony says, then I'll post what I thought of it. Nice review as always Spoony and Miles also. You two should do this more often.

  • Potatoefp

    I found it hilarious how Spoony started eating in the middle of the Vlog. I don't know why, but it was hilarious.

  • nomanslander

    Nerdrage much Spoony?

    LoL, I thought the movie was awesome…

    and it seems like my bitter criticizing nature can't agree with the Spoony own all the time….;P

  • nomanslander

    nerdrage much spoony?

    meh, I thought the movie was awesome, I didn't go in to see this movie to be blown away by the plot since I knew exactly what to expect when I saw the trailers.

    I went for immersion, and I got exactly what I wanted, the films is better than all three of the SW prequels combined, and definitely better than 2012 which was a film this I found really to be offensive, silly, and lecturing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      Justified nerdrage.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      Justified nerdrage.

  • willharrison

    Spoony, look at star wars and how blatant the evil vs good is in that, there are no shades of grey… or look at other cameron movies, like in Aliens, weyland yutani is clearly this evil money-grubbing corporation that considers humans expendable for there gains, there's NO shades of grey about it. Do you find that preachy or condescending? I don't… I think that the creator is trying to make a villain, and villains are simply evil. Why should there be shades of grey? Is a child rapist evil or is there shades of grey that need to be shown, to show that he has some good in him? Why? What's the point, he's evil, that's it. So, Avatar is one of those movies where it just gets right to the point, and I appreciate it for that… In fact, I find that those movies that try to show shades of grey are the ones being preachy and condescending. This movie was visually STUNNING and a remarkable achievment in terms of the detailed, lush fantasy world that was put to screen and all its inhabitants. The action, when there was any, was really really well done by any standards.. but like you brother said, they were far and few between. Oh, and I also found the colonel's bravado to be awesomely entertaining (why dilute that with shades of grey, I WANT outrageous, outlandish characters like that in a movie) …Shades of grey is boring, I want to see the extremes! Having said that, this movie was almost immediately forgettable and has limited replay value, I knew that coming in (just from the vibe I got from the trailers), so I just took it for what it is and was thoroughly entertained. Oh, and the 3D was actually bearable for the whole duration, surprisingly.. however, it felt unnecessary. I agree with you points partially, but I definitely wouldn't say this is bullshit.

  • Lucy_Z

    You know, boys, oddly enough, your review made me want to see it more. Something about having confirmation about what I expected and the hilarity of your CEO Guy and Marine Dude impressions, it sounds fun.

    Also, Noah, you earn over 9000 points for your CGI vs practical effects comments. Most insightful and true thing you've ever said.

  • superhyperduck

    starwars had a message that their may still be good in an evil person tho, that is sorta a shade of grey, the whole idea of all 3 original films was to redeem anakin, through the machine of darth vader. when it preaches its at luke not the audience, there is a big difference. Aliens doesn't beat you over head with a baseball bat in the first 5 minutes or have a hundred references to our current situation. I understand the simple message it is timeless in Aliens, people want an ultimate weapon that can't be tied to the person using it. Avatar is so preachy on american politics that it just rubs me the wrong way, like the health care debate, killing our planet, white guilt (I'm mexican by the way, I just don't think it necessary to blame current generations for their ancestor's sins, and that its racist to blame everything wrong with the world on white people), I was also upset there weren't enough blacks, mexicans, Indians (from India) or Asians in this movie come on minorities currently out number whites in terms of global population. I would expect the future to continue this trend, unless a bunch of racists just decide to nuke the other races. I mean the whole lets have a bunch of rednecks shooting up some space aliens was offensive and stupid even to a Mexican. I have many friends and family that are white and military and I know they aren't a bunch of mouth breathing racists that want to just shoot “rag heads” or whatever. This movie is just out right offensive. They weren't even all that evil I don't understand why they just didn't use nukes if they were so extreme! like the guys in star ship troopers, there the alien bugs didn't have souls and they for whatever reason saved their nuke till the end. I was like why not just carpet bomb the place with nukes then go in and mop up? maybe they did away with nukes in the future ok maybe, but still why not just send in unmanned aerial vehicles to do all the work, why do you even need people flying them directly, obviously their cameras and raidos still work in the “Vortex” which was a bunch of malarky why did all their other electronics work? AHH Sorry its offensive and unabashedly preaching to a 5 year old I hate it.

    • Anonymous

      “the whole idea of all 3 original films was to redeem anakin.”

      Sorry but I call shenanigans on that, Star Wars is the hero’s journey in space. The main focus is overcoming “the ultimate evil”, in this case the galactic empire. Vader’s last minute heel turn is a minor point in the larger story.

  • superhyperduck

    i agree both sides can be entertaining, but its offensive to just say, oh the audience isn't going to make these connections so lets make them for them. It is insulting to the intelligence of the audience and its holding their hand saying “see this is wrong in any situation” when is done in a subtitle way it works cause the audience is left to make their own opinions but in this movie it just says look I got a baseball bat lets beat you over the head with it.

  • superhyperduck

    just because other stuff sucks doesn't mean you don't need to accept stuff that sucks less. Dune is by far way better immersible and intelligent than this movie. heck evil dead is, evil dead had more imagination.

    • Anonymous

      Evil Dead is a grate film, I really like all of them infact. However it wasn’t anything we hadn’t seen before. It was just lampooning horror conventions. Though not always obviously.

  • superhyperduck

    great point

  • superhyperduck

    there were mercs in abyss and aliens and it wasn't this offensive. but i get your point, it wasn't that these people are representing a particular race or group of people its just the job description required them to be evil guns for hire, point taken.

  • Anonymous

    I really love your take on this movie.
    It really brings me back to your review of D9, where they are forcing symbolism on us and disguising it as sci-fi action.

    I also live that you’re sitting there eating McDonald’s while reviewing. Made my morning. :)

  • morritan

    I agree totally! This is a sci fi epic! I want larger than life characters, I want heroes and villains. This isn't a slow paced critique of society even if there is obvious allusions to our own world. This is a story of legendary characters not the average person.

  • morritan

    Star Wars is so black and white – the light and dark sides. End of story. Nothing in between. I know the expanded universe has its shades of grey, but thats not the films. Vader turned back to the light side at the end only after redeeming himself by saving his son.

    They weren't soldiers. They were ex-soldiers, they were mercenaries. He said this at the start, about how back on earth they once fought for freedom and now they fight for the money. Look up real mercs in google, they all have freaking mohawks. And don't say mercs aren't all that bad, not after all that stuff in the news with the mercenary companies in Iraq firing randomly into traffic for fun and just generally being dicks.

  • superhyperduck

    but again why is it only white people that signed up for this?

    • Anonymous

      It’s meant to be ‘no good reason’. It is meant to make you annoyed at the humans. I don’t see ‘white people’ when I look at the humans in the film, I see humans. You are getting into territory like Resident Evil here; should they have casted loads of ethic races just so it can be politically correct?

      • Anonymous

        it is supposed to be white people because it is Natives vs Whites, just like Dances With Wolves. but lets get back to the ‘no good reason’, they just made them douche bags for the sake of being douche bags thats unacceptable, if they had every intention of making lies in the first place they could just offed the scientists said the aliens did it and that they were super advanced so they had to wipe them out with a nuke end of story, but the whole we need to drive them out oh no we can’t find a non-lethal way so lets napalm their butts, is just stupid. And I could care less if it was politically correct, I want to know why whites are still the majority in the future when current trends dont show that. Almost every sci-fi suffers from this, so few times we see fewer and fewer minorities, star trek was multi ethnic, so was blade runner.

  • Anonymous

    As much as I loathe the plot of the film, your review is inspiring me to see it now just for the general and douche corporate guy.

    This film is, to borrow the phrase from my English Classes (Woo for a class actually worth something!), “emotionally dishonest”. Cameron does not intend for the viewer to feel their own emotions or to draw their own conclusions. No, he intends for the viewer to feel what he tells them to feel. When a corporate gets killed, you cheer. When a mercenary gets killed, you whoop! When a Na’vi is hurt, you cry out in terror. When a Na’vi is killed, you weep for the unjust loss.

    Everything Cameron said before the movie’s release lead me against watching it for plot purposes. The Na’vi were made to be these sexy loveable creatures that EVERY VIEWER WANTED TO BECOME, by CAMERON’S OWN WORDS. The humanity, while not stated to be despicable straight-up, are made to come from a world they are about to completely trash and brutally re-locate the Aliens to get their shiny rocks. You aren’t supposed to feel any sympathy for anyone besides the main characters and the Na’vi.

    The sad thing is, if not for the over-the-top he forces upon you, this movie would have a VERY big instance of moral grey. The wasteland of Earth? It’s over-populated by about 20 billion people. The ruined ecosystem? Because nuclear plants were spat out all over the place to deal with energy demands, with predictable hollywood results.

    How could this be turned moral grey? Unobtanium fixes ALL OF IT, at least partially / slightly. It allows near-FTL travel, meaning humans can get off the rock and colonize other planets in other star systems. It allows FTL communication, meaning policing and supply management is a possibility (allowing more people to be transported off-earth). Lastly, it’s a room temperature super-conductor meaning less energy required (more efficient transfer), and less energy saturation. The less energy required means less nuclear plants, which means less nuclear run-off. Less nuclear plants due to the super-conductors and less nuclear plants due to evacuating people. Heck, let us assume that only 1% of the population is viable for evacuation in the next 50 years, or 5 journeys from Earth to Pandora to Earth again. That’s still 200,000,000, or THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF BRAZIL that is removed from the planet. Hell, assuming an equal population / nuclear plant ratio, that’s still roughly 175 nuclear power plants offline just from the evacuation. Assuming a simple 10% efficiency increase from a ROOM TEMPERATURE SUPER CONDUCTOR, and again a population / nuclear plant ratio similar to france, that’s a further 1740 nuclear power plants shut down. In other words, giving “just” 1% of Earth’s population relocated to off-world colonies and “just” a 10% efficiency increase in nuclear plants from a room temperature super conductor, a little under 2000(!) nuclear power plants would be shut down, with an average of at least 47500 tonnes of nuclear waste no longer produced YEARLY.

    Of course, (if the reviews I hear are true,) Cameron ignores this little point (which might make the human mining of Pandora almost tolerable / acceptable), and instead just focuses on the fact that “Humans want profit, humans gonna kill them some blue-skinned injuns!”

  • Anonymous

    As much as I loathe the plot of the film, your review is inspiring me to see it now just for the general and douche corporate guy.

    This film is, to borrow the phrase from my English Classes (Woo for a class actually worth something!), “emotionally dishonest”. Cameron does not intend for the viewer to feel their own emotions or to draw their own conclusions. No, he intends for the viewer to feel what he tells them to feel. When a corporate gets killed, you cheer. When a mercenary gets killed, you whoop! When a Na’vi is hurt, you cry out in terror. When a Na’vi is killed, you weep for the unjust loss.

    Everything Cameron said before the movie’s release lead me against watching it for plot purposes. The Na’vi were made to be these sexy loveable creatures that EVERY VIEWER WANTED TO BECOME, by CAMERON’S OWN WORDS. The humanity, while not stated to be despicable straight-up, are made to come from a world they are about to completely trash and brutally re-locate the Aliens to get their shiny rocks. You aren’t supposed to feel any sympathy for anyone besides the main characters and the Na’vi.

    The sad thing is, if not for the over-the-top he forces upon you, this movie would have a VERY big instance of moral grey. The wasteland of Earth? It’s over-populated by about 20 billion people. The ruined ecosystem? Because nuclear plants were spat out all over the place to deal with energy demands, with predictable hollywood results.

    How could this be turned moral grey? Unobtanium fixes ALL OF IT, at least partially / slightly. It allows near-FTL travel, meaning humans can get off the rock and colonize other planets in other star systems. It allows FTL communication, meaning policing and supply management is a possibility (allowing more people to be transported off-earth). Lastly, it’s a room temperature super-conductor meaning less energy required (more efficient transfer), and less energy saturation. The less energy required means less nuclear plants, which means less nuclear run-off. Less nuclear plants due to the super-conductors and less nuclear plants due to evacuating people. Heck, let us assume that only 1% of the population is viable for evacuation in the next 50 years, or 5 journeys from Earth to Pandora to Earth again. That’s still 200,000,000, or THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF BRAZIL that is removed from the planet. Hell, assuming an equal population / nuclear plant ratio, that’s still roughly 175 nuclear power plants offline just from the evacuation. Assuming a simple 10% efficiency increase from a ROOM TEMPERATURE SUPER CONDUCTOR, and again a population / nuclear plant ratio similar to france, that’s a further 1740 nuclear power plants shut down. In other words, giving “just” 1% of Earth’s population relocated to off-world colonies and “just” a 10% efficiency increase in nuclear plants from a room temperature super conductor, a little under 2000(!) nuclear power plants would be shut down, with an average of at least 47500 tonnes of nuclear waste no longer produced YEARLY.

    Of course, (if the reviews I hear are true,) Cameron ignores this little point (which might make the human mining of Pandora almost tolerable / acceptable), and instead just focuses on the fact that “Humans want profit, humans gonna kill them some blue-skinned injuns!”

  • superhyperduck

    ok so I sorta get the whole mercs are evil, like the navy seals were evil in abyss, but in abyss they at least had no idea what the alien's intentions were, in this movie they just want to stay, but they turn it into a battle of “this planet aint big enough for the two of us”. Everyone is one dimensional, Star Wars had some characters that had some dimension to them, like bounty hunters, and Han Solo, heck Chewy was more complicated than anyone in Avatar.

    • Anonymous

      I agree that maybe they should have explained the unabtainium. It might be what makes the mountains float. It is used as a fuel of some sort at least.

  • http://www.facebook.com/DTS.Raph Raph Byrne

    I would say on the whole the movie was more fantasy in a futuristic setting rather than sci-fi. I think a lot of alright fantasy movies are blammed by critics who are expecting sci-fi just because of the setting, which certainly doesn't strictly make it true SCIENCE fiction.

    Also the 3D helps immensely with the believability of the world. It kind of makes sense in a fantasy way.

  • http://twitter.com/Emperor_Z Zach Williams

    As much as I love Spoony, I rarely agree with his movie opinions. Gonna go see Avatar tomorrow :-)

  • Disthron

    You know Soony, you once asked if there was someone who wonted to do reviews with and I would love to. If only because we seem to differ so much on what makes a good movie. Don't get me wrong, I often see where your coming from and I really appreciate that you believe what your saying. You don't come off as someone who would say something just to be sensationalist but I disagree with you a LOT.

    Anyway, I have to say I thought Avatar was an exelant film. I don't know if I'd say it was a master peace but it was a dam good film. I definatly did not have the disconnect with the CG, I really belied the characters performances. I have not seen Dances With Wolves, but I did find the plot to be a bit predictable. But I didn't care, ok so we'd seen stuff like this before but I thought it was really well done. Some people have said that there was no story, but that's not true. It was not an original story but it was a well told version of an old classic.
    Spoony draws another parallel to “the Last Samori” witch it perfectly fair, but again, that movie was fearly decent. I have to say I didn't like that movie as much as this one but I am more partion to Sci-fi so maybe that's just my bias.
    How about Star Wars, that's just the hero's journey in space isn't it?

    Now, maybe it's becouse I'm not American but I didn't feel this movie was preachy, at least not towards Americans in particular. I mean stuff like this has been happening in human history all the way along. I mean even back in the days of the ancient Romans if you were rich enough you could hire soldiers to get what you wonted.

    I don't get why spoony thinks he's being spoken down to. I mean the characters were fearly archetypal but I didn't think they were stereotypes. I mean it seemed to me that they were developed enough to be believable as characters in there own right.

    Also, I had no problem with the “USB interface with nature”. I don't know why he finds that offensive.

    Some other people have commented about the floating mountens needing to be explained. I say that they shouldn't of explained them, unless the explanation was integral to the story some how. For instance, in the episode of Star Trek:TNG where Lt Barkly sees strange “things” floating around in the transporter stream they go a bit into how the transporter works because it's has some bearing on the story. Compared to “Back to the Future” where almost nothing about the Delorean is elaborated on. Only aspects of it that have a bearing on the plot are discussed, such as the 88mph thing, where as everything else, such as how the Doc managed to build a nuclear reactor, that can use up a plutonium rod in a split second, and fit it in the back of a car!
    It's because it dose not matter to the story. The Delorean is just a vehicle, in this case literally, that allows the story to unfold. In the same way the floating mountens do not need to be explained. They hang the “some kind of strange anomaly we don't yet understand” lantern on it and move on. I thought it was a cool set peace and made for an interesting fight scene.

    About the scene where Sigourney is having her impassioned speech I did love how the main character, the soldier, had that look on his face of “your right, but they don't give a shit about that”. Also, about the comments on the red-necked soldiers in the speech at the end. If you were a big evil corporation that only cared about money wouldn't you hire thugs that could be easily lead?

    I totally lost track of time when I was watching Avatar.

    About the 2012 comment, I know a lot of people don't realize this but organic stuff like trees, animals and people are WAAAAY harder to make look believable in CG than buildings. Sure you had some forest shots in 2012 but they were always wide shots with no close ups. In Avatar there was a lot of close ups of the animals and the aliens as well so the artists had to do a LOT more work in order to sell the close ups. All the stuff in 2012 was really easy by comparison.

    I have to say, I purposefully avoided info on this movie after seeing the initial teaser trailer. And I when it knowing almost nothing about it. I really liked this movie, I think a lot of other people are going to like it to. I probably wouldn't go as fare as to say it was a master-peace but I'd say it dose stack up to the directors other movies. Go and see it in the theatre, it's a grate movie.

  • Disthron

    You know Soony, you once asked if there was someone who wonted to do reviews with and I would love to. If only because we seem to differ so much on what makes a good movie. Don't get me wrong, I often see where your coming from and I really appreciate that you believe what your saying. You don't come off as someone who would say something just to be sensationalist but I disagree with you a LOT.

    Anyway, I have to say I thought Avatar was an exelant film. I don't know if I'd say it was a master peace but it was a dam good film. I definatly did not have the disconnect with the CG, I really belied the characters performances. I have not seen Dances With Wolves, but I did find the plot to be a bit predictable. But I didn't care, ok so we'd seen stuff like this before but I thought it was really well done. Some people have said that there was no story, but that's not true. It was not an original story but it was a well told version of an old classic.
    Spoony draws another parallel to “the Last Samori” witch it perfectly fair, but again, that movie was fearly decent. I have to say I didn't like that movie as much as this one but I am more partion to Sci-fi so maybe that's just my bias.
    How about Star Wars, that's just the hero's journey in space isn't it?

    Now, maybe it's becouse I'm not American but I didn't feel this movie was preachy, at least not towards Americans in particular. I mean stuff like this has been happening in human history all the way along. I mean even back in the days of the ancient Romans if you were rich enough you could hire soldiers to get what you wonted.

    I don't get why spoony thinks he's being spoken down to. I mean the characters were fearly archetypal but I didn't think they were stereotypes. I mean it seemed to me that they were developed enough to be believable as characters in there own right.

    Also, I had no problem with the “USB interface with nature”. I don't know why he finds that offensive.

    Some other people have commented about the floating mountens needing to be explained. I say that they shouldn't of explained them, unless the explanation was integral to the story some how. For instance, in the episode of Star Trek:TNG where Lt Barkly sees strange “things” floating around in the transporter stream they go a bit into how the transporter works because it's has some bearing on the story. Compared to “Back to the Future” where almost nothing about the Delorean is elaborated on. Only aspects of it that have a bearing on the plot are discussed, such as the 88mph thing, where as everything else, such as how the Doc managed to build a nuclear reactor, that can use up a plutonium rod in a split second, and fit it in the back of a car!
    It's because it dose not matter to the story. The Delorean is just a vehicle, in this case literally, that allows the story to unfold. In the same way the floating mountens do not need to be explained. They hang the “some kind of strange anomaly we don't yet understand” lantern on it and move on. I thought it was a cool set peace and made for an interesting fight scene.

    About the scene where Sigourney is having her impassioned speech I did love how the main character, the soldier, had that look on his face of “your right, but they don't give a shit about that”. Also, about the comments on the red-necked soldiers in the speech at the end. If you were a big evil corporation that only cared about money wouldn't you hire thugs that could be easily lead?

    I totally lost track of time when I was watching Avatar.

    About the 2012 comment, I know a lot of people don't realize this but organic stuff like trees, animals and people are WAAAAY harder to make look believable in CG than buildings. Sure you had some forest shots in 2012 but they were always wide shots with no close ups. In Avatar there was a lot of close ups of the animals and the aliens as well so the artists had to do a LOT more work in order to sell the close ups. All the stuff in 2012 was really easy by comparison.

    I have to say, I purposefully avoided info on this movie after seeing the initial teaser trailer. And I when it knowing almost nothing about it. I really liked this movie, I think a lot of other people are going to like it to. I probably wouldn't go as fare as to say it was a master-peace but I'd say it dose stack up to the directors other movies. Go and see it in the theatre, it's a grate movie.

  • superhyperduck

    yeah its not really science fiction more fantasy, the whole dream like state and everything, thats why I didn't have much of a problem with unexplained stuff, mostly just the allegories that seemed a little to pervasive. If you like ferngully by all means see it, its basically ferngully only instead of things being very small they're very big, and the humans are small, oh and there is machine guns and rockets.

  • http://twitter.com/bar1scorpio Benjamin Rodriguez

    http://bar1scorpio.livejournal.com/134296.html

    My review of it. I think I may have hated it more than Spoony. I found it incredibly racist. And the sycophantic cries of “game changer” and “awesome” just as annoying as the Twilight fanbase.

    There's about a dozen places where the same story, same visuals, same special effects were done better.

  • nocturnous

    The mountains were made of almost entirely highly magnetized unobtainium and the water got there from previous storms or something :P

    I agree completely though, I felt intellectually insulted throughout the entire thing. The subtext was a twisting dagger in my brain, I've seen this story told better in episodes of the outer limits. I agree with the Ferngully parallel, it was the first thing that popped into my head, especially when Jake( I think that was his name) was trying to signal the bulldozers to stop destroying the magical and sacred forest.

    For a story this long, you really don't learn much about any of the main characters. I felt very disconnected even laughed at serious parts. Bad movies, are movies with plot holes and devices, that need to be character driven but fail. This movie is very superficial and a lot of the time spent between cg showboating, was redundant, insipid filler and the foreshadowing as transparent, as it gets.

    I did see this on the IMAX and in 3D. Most of the time the 3D effect just disappeared, the times I noticed it the most, were only for novel purposes and most of the more epic scenes used the effect minimally. It wasn't revolutionary or groundbreaking, but luckily I avoided the hype of it all. I had really no interest in this movie prior to it's release date and avoided all reviews on it. I went into it with more or less a blank slate. The production values do make this a better movie and the final battle scene was very epic. Without all of the eye candy, there would be no reason to watch.

  • llimar263

    You know I like a lot of people here are fans of your work but there is something about this particular review that makes me want to point out a few things I found interesting. However I must warn you I am no writting professional by any stretch of the imagination so take the next few paragraphs with a few grains of salt.

    as I am writing this comment I thought about writing a couple of paragraphs to try to counter act your criticism and prove that this is a good movie (at least i thought so,) but after reading your twitter messages about the movie I can see that if somehow you do end up reading my comments about the movies CGI, actors, story ect… that you would only barely read it and respond by saying something like “no (blank) did (blank) first and better you a moron.” So while this message will contain a share amount of my point of view I think I will include some comments made by other critics insted.

    1. first off I dont know about you but I am detecting a clear amount of bias here. You yourself I believe admitted you went in this movie thinking you would not like the movie, but its not just that because it seems like every other critic from Roger Ebert to the Cinema Snob loved this movie. In fact you are the only person I have seen to come down so negetivly on it I dont know if you are still enraged over the slammies a few weeks back but I think there is something you are not telling us.

    2. the following comment comes from a critic on the website Spill.com (great movie site by the way) he said ” who cares if the story and the diolog are not actualy sparkling its not one of those type of films where you go and nit pick on that level or at least you shouldnt what are you a moron you have to be dumb if that s*** is going to bother you so much that thats not perfect that you are going to walk out of this film hating it if you cant appreciate what is truly great about this film your just not all that bright” the full audio review can be herd at Spill.com (i dont really know how to post a link but nothing a google search cant handle) I would like to remind you that these are not my words although I do believe them.

    3. another thing I must address is in my opininon your behavior twards the people coming out to you saying they like the movie only to crush them down and tell them the new movie they liked is so bad is compleatly out of line. I get that you dont like the movie that is perfectly fine, but that is NO excuse to ruin the enjoyment other people had especialy the younger audiences who probably have not seen a movie like this.

    4. which leads me to my final point i dont know if its because of the holidays or just a random brain spark, but the way you respond to the people who like the movie remindes me of the part in a Christmas Carol where Scrooge's nephew tries to wish him a merry christmas to which Scrooge replies “Christmas! What's christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, and not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in 'em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? if I could work my will every idiot who goes about with merry christmas on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a stake of holly through his heart” sound familiar. Maybe I am digging too deep into this and I probably am but that is just how I feel.

    I know that this whole thing sounds disjointed just consider it my way of getting things off my chest. If there is anyone reading this who knows of a better way to get spoony to read this or even agknowledge it I would appreciate the help. However if you would like to find a way to get him to read it yourself that would also be appreciated. Although if you choose this option if it is not too much to ask you might want to revise this whole statement to make it a little more presentable well i think i typed enough so with that said merry christmahanuquanzakkah (thats christmas,hanuakkah,and quanza in one word) and thanks for reading this mess

    • Anonymous

      Spoony is a story buff. Above all else he appreciates a well crafted story. He also likes those campy movies with small budgets cuz they have a charm to them. THIS movie was the complete opposite of those values, that’s why he hates it so much, I’m guessing (well that and the whole political message/allegory rubbing him the wrong way). That’s why he “nit picks” …I personally, really liked the movie, but found it mostly forgettable after watching… still, it was good. Anyway, not everyone is so big on having that “sparkling” story and dialogue, Spoony however, is a stickler on that, I’ve come to tell, and I certainly don’t fault him for that. Don’t feel bad for liking something, just cuz someone else doesn’t :) I like Spoony’s reviews and find him entertaining, but that doesn’t mean we both have to like the same things or that he has some superior taste over everyone else.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      In this comment you do nothing but whine and whine and whine as if Spoony is being a mean bully. Grow some fucking balls!

  • Anonymous

    Yes! Finally, someone else out there who thinks Avatar was terrible!
    It was nothing but a poorly conceived, poorly executed CGI wank fest. As someone studying to be a film maker, it’s actually physically painful seeing so many people and critics rave about it.

    Don’t worry Noah, you’re not the only one who hated it.

  • Anonymous

    I completely loved this review for two reasons (and I’m sure you want to hear them): one, Spoony plus his brother show the real Spoony (and family) to the public eye. I’ve never seen Spoony act so naturally and without restraint. Your brother did a superb job, by the way, and for not having too much camera time under his belt he could have done far worse. If this happened more often, it could only improve. Plus, it helps to have different opinions so that we can see different aspects and counterpoints to an otherwise one-sided review.Second is that I was amazed by how talented these two really are. I want you guys to count the different adjectives they used in this review, and compare it to how many you’re normally used to hearing on average, per other review and compare the results. There was never a more clear time were I realized how brilliant he (or the Spoony line) was. I cannot say enough about how immense my amazement and entertainment was from watching this and with 360+ comments in the first 24 hours since this came out shows you how much of a following he has accrued.If you do happen to read this, know that there are tons of fans out there that love you and will always support you because of opportunities like this where we get to experience true QST (Quality Spoony Time).

  • kmapk178

    Great review, Spoony!!! I thought Avatar was just okay.
    Worst movies of 2009 episode?
    Twilight: New Moon?
    Avatar?
    Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen?
    Others that I'm failing to mention?

  • aguyfromspain

    Ok I give you: it has all the fails you said.
    It's not original, it's too slow at the beginning, the design of Pandora feels ridiculous, the symbolism is way too obvious…

    So what? The story was well told and I can think a lot of ways this movie could have been way worse than it is!
    What i'm trying to say is: its a fine 6/10 movie! That's it! So why treat it like it was a very very awful movie? It's not, it's just a 6/10, what's the problem with that? I've seen movies way worst this year.

    I felt your review was way too influenced by all the hype this movie has got, like “wow it's the movie that Cameron has been doing for fiveteen years it HAS to be great”. Well, it's not, but why keep on bitching on that? I mean: ok, so it's not the great over-the-top masterpiece the media said it was going to be, but try to think neutrally.

    For me (maybe since i'm from a country were Cameron has never been that famous and this movie was just “another movie”. Actually I was thinking it would be a crappier movie than it was) it was a fine movie. 6/10, man. I got entertained, I enjoyed the movie, and even if it's not a masterpiece, I think it was worth the money.

    Don't tell me this movie is bullshit. It's not a masterpiece? Deal. But it's not bullshit.
    Jennifer's Body, that's some serious crap.

    (I felt, though, that not explaining about the minerals and some stuff was cool. Why should the movie explain everything? Don't you have imagination?).

    Sorry for my bad english.
    It's the first time i've not been 100% with you in a review. Keep the good work, you're the man.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      The problem is even looking away from the hype this movie was definitely not a 6/10. If anything it was a 4/10 or 3/10. Just not a very good movie in any aspect. Mediocre at the very best.

  • b0rg168

    Just got back from watching the movie, and I have to say that:

    1. The CGI for the Na'vi and the creatures looks like its bathed in oil. What I mean by that is that it looks way, way too smooth, like they put absolutely no effort into the textures of these creatures. I realize that they're aliens, but no “special effects” should look this unrealistic, especially when they're being touted as a revolution for movies.

    2. The plot is only okay. Its certainly not a revolution in sci-fi storytelling, and it doesn't seem like something Cameron put much thought into when making this movie. But overall, its decent.

    3. The paper-thin underlying theme that Americans are always bad, greedy, and hungry for oil (in this case, unobtainium) is very much racist. So what if Americans have done really bad things in the past (such as attempting to exterminate the Native Americans, which truly was awful), other cultures have done things just as bad, if not worse. Some examples that come to mind are the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989, radical Islamists' terroristic acts against the entire world (not just America), the Holocaust, brutal dictatorships that have been going on for decades (Cuba, China, and Iran are three names that come to mind), etc, etc. But I guess since James Cameron is God, we should all just accept the fact that America is secretly behind everything evil in the world, that we are the scum of the earth, and that we should be constantly reminded of our villainy…yeah right. Take that crap somewhere else James Cameron, because I'm not buying it.

    Other than all of that, it was an okay movie. It definitely wasn't worth the money, but it did keep me occupied for a couple of hours. And that last battle sequence was really, really good. But that's about it, nothing else special about it.

  • oldmanlouis

    have your head the spill.com audio review of Avatar where appently there was parts of the film that was cut that made all the silly things like the floating mountains and stuff make sence?

  • Strelnikov

    I have to say something about your examples for point number 3; Cuba was a US-backed dictatorship before Castro's revolution set up a Communist government on the island in the late 1950s. China's previous government was backed by the US in the last couple of years before Mao's forces won in 1949 and that goverment (the Kuomintang, headed by Germeralissimo Chiang Kai-Shek) was anti-democratic. Iran's revolution in 1979 sprung from the repressive government of the Shah, whose SAVAK secret police was trained by the CIA (the Shah himself was restored to his throne by a CIA-engineered counter coup in 1953.) All of these are bad examples for your case because the US had something to do with how they acted. Better examples would be Mussolini's Fascist Italy, Japan before 1945, and the horrible actions of the Ottoman Empire during WWI (the prime example being the Armenian Genocide, which the turks still won't admit happened.)

  • http://twitter.com/JacksonBartelme Jackson Bartelme

    Hey, great review Spoony never fail to make me smile. Guys come on, he didnt like the movie, so what? no reason to get upset, i like boondock saints while spoony dosen't and im not pissed at him for that (though i would like to talk to him about it if i ever got the chance) he gave his opinion, thats what critics do so respect it. Also it was awesome seeing your brother on here hope to see him on here more

  • nuclearaptor

    As far as “USB hair” is concerned, it actually doesn't sound too bad. I'm going to assume you played Mass Effect. Well,if you remember,ME had the Asari,the female humanoid aliens with hair tentacle things. Hair tentacles allow them to do pretty much the same thing – merge their consciousness with that of another being,temporarily fusing their nervous systems together. In fact,if I remember correctly,that's an integral part of the Asari reproductive process. I dunno,I thought it was a pretty cool concept.

    As for the “floating mountains = bullshit” thing… Maybe it's some sort of magnetic anomaly or some shit. Actually,from what I hear on the internets,one of the reasons it took Cameron 15 goddamn years to finish the movie is his maniacal attention to detail. Apparently,he hired a bunch of scientific consultants,actual doctors of botany and zoology,to explain and ground in reality every single bizarre alien plant,every single floating jellyfish and every single little bug that you see on the screen. It's kind of like when the Command & Conquer developers hired actual scientists to theorize and deduce the history of discovery,the possible structure and the physico-chemical properties of Tiberium within the bounds of the current understanding of physics and chemistry (!). Yes,they actually did that.

    Hell,he hired a linguist to develop the Na'Vi language from scratch. I haven't even seen the movie,but goddamn,you gotta admire that kind of dedication.

  • Boppsson

    I went in knowing nothing about this movie except that there would be blue aliens in it. Which turned out to be a smart choice considering you guys hype problem with it. I thought it was pretty good but I still agree with a lot of the problems in it you discuss like the fauna and no gray tone. One way they could've created some moral dilemma was if they went into more detail exactly how Earth is fucked and if this Unobtanium is essential for humanity's survival instead of, well. oil. That would've gone far more into the whole race betrayal thing.

  • sniktbub

    Yay! The return of your brother!

    And a spiffy new Add Comment section too!

  • Urthrun

    I am absolutely floored by your twitter post on the subject. “CGI is easy, I mean pixar does it”. There is a very very good reason why 99% of the artist at pixar make more then 100,000 dollars a year, because someone off the street CAN'T do it. It's hard, that's the point.

    I take very clear offense to this complete ignorance to what CG is. Yes, directors use it way more then they should. But please for the love of god, do not speak about something you have no idea in.

    Your flying mountain probably took months….and months…and months to make. Imagine spending 3 weeks on a tree…..a single…solitary tree. And then spending days making it be able to move, and then spending another week animating and programming the tree. Now multiply this by hundreds….of thousands. The point of CG is to make it look easy.

    You know…Not nearly as hard as watching the movie…noticing it resembles a couple of other movies….and pressing record while you talk about it.

    As someone with a f*cking degree in Computer Animation. I would really perfer you shut your mouth about the subject.

  • willharrison

    When George Lucas conceived Star Wars, he clearly drew inspiration from WW2, Nazis vs Allies, nobody doubts that. Even when making Terminator 2, Cameron said in his commentary that he drew inspiration from the whole tension brought on by the cold war and the sense of impending nuclear apocalypse. My point? People write stories based on reality and current politics, that's where some writers get their ideas from.. Avatar is no different. I really don't take this movie to be a message that America is bad and white people are bad… he just constructed a story drawing inspiration from current real world conflict. Well, that's my take.. and hey, I'm not saying Cameron makes the best stories, he doesn't, but when it comes to bringing it to life on screen, I'm sure you'll agree, he's a master!

    Oh, and about not using nukes, the CEO guy explained that in the first part of the movie.. shareholders don't want that kind of bad press surrounding the operation. If it wasn't for that, I'm sure they would have just gone in and nuked them, but that's rarely a first solution.. usually people try diplomacy first, I think. They tried that, then they tried gassing them, but then they felt provoked by how they were shooting back with arrows so the colonel decided to step it up and switched to incendiaries and it when on from there to dropping the daisy-cutters, which is like nuking them.

  • superhyperduck

    I think he meant if your looking for an example that is easy to find.

  • superhyperduck

    I have to ask tho, why was CS gas the only thing they tried, why not unbearably loud annoying sounds, stink bombs, agent orange, or heck why not even use the place a dump for human waste and see how long they stay? They just jump from cs gas to lets f'n kill these blue monkeys!

  • SoldierHawk

    Spoony (and Miles!) that was wonderful. I really, really enjoyed your interaction here (especially Noah's initial reaction to the “Dances With Wolves” thing. I just about lost it!) It really is cool seeing Spoony play off someone else (a REAL someone else, not in-character someone elses'), and its clear you both had a good time.

    I love your solo vlogs obviously Spoony, but I sure as hell wouldn't mind seeing guests of this caliber more often. Complete success in my mind. Very well done gentlemen!

  • SoldierHawk

    Gah and as usual I forget to add something…

    I think I like the new comments system here. I really understand why it was necessary for a change, and I hope this helps you keep better track of what's going on, and keep things up to standard. Your product is way to good for it to be brought down by internet idiots.

    (I'm watching this a second time as I add this, and your expressions in the first part of Miles' review STILL slays me!)

  • dodoman1

    His exact words on Twitter were “CGI is easy. 2012, Benjamin Button, the Pirates movies…”, and by that he meant that the CGI in Avatar is not in any way groundbreaking.

  • dodoman1

    Why in the fuck did they cut them out?

  • dodoman1

    Apparwently the floating mountains were made entirely out of some sort of highly magnetic metal that reacted with the planet's magnetic field and made them float or something. I am not a scintist, but that doesn't exactly sound scientifically sound to me. And I agree with what you said (paraphrased): “You can't just say, 'These are flying mountains! ACCEPT THEM!'” For example: Did you ever watch Dragon Hunters? Everything in that show took place on flying mountains. They were never explained, but it worked, because there were ONLY flying mountains. All flying mountains or no flying mountains, god dammit!

  • superhyperduck

    well maybe it was just because this was sold more as a sci-fi than a fantasy. Dragon Hunters is a fantasy movie hence magic could make them float. It looks freakin cool, but it doesnt make a lot of sense no. maybe the unubtanium provided some psychic link between the trees on the floating mountain and the ground trees and they were kept from flying out into space by love. :D to me its no big deal I have other problems with the movie.

  • Jawmuncher

    I enjoyed the movie greatly.
    Hell I think it was the best movie of the year it's in my top 10 favorite movies.
    Going to go see it again soon.

  • Anonymous

    Please give us more Spoony and Miles in the future. You guys are great to watch on movies.

    First of all, the CGI in Avatar is groundbreaking. Never before has CGI managed to render a humanoid face with such detail without it looking supremely creepy, and I really do think it will change how CGI is done in the future, and change it for the better. Avatar was the first CGI film to successfully mount the other side of the Uncanny Valley.

    Second, I like Miles’s comparison to Dances with Wolves–I hadn’t thought of that one. But, when I saw Avatar, I was looking at it through the lens of the science fiction genre, and I didn’t see a morality play. What I saw was essentially V told from a different point of view, which IS pretty novel for science fiction, and is an interesting twist on the standard bug-eyed monster invasion sci-fi plot. As the movie went on, I also thought of Aliens, with the scheming corporate masters putting innocent people at risk for profits. But I also think it’s a bit ingenuous to take a science fiction movie to task so hard for not exploring a unique theme. George Lucas took The Hidden Fortress and put it in space, and people still blow him on a regular basis–Cameron moves Dances with Wolves to space, and we’re supposed to think it’s derivative? Feh, I say, feh. Avatar is a very good addition to the science fiction movie catalog, and it’s CGI is groundbreaking.

    Keep up the good work.

    • Anonymous

      Oh come on. Half Life 2 was able to render human faces and expressions without it being creepy, and they did it five years ago. Even more, they had it render in real time.

      • Anonymous

        OK, I’m going to assume your trying to be funny, and laugh with you. Ha, ha.

  • spectervonbaren

    In your first two examples you speak of a couple of other reviewers that liked this movie. My point in bringing this up is, so what? Are you saying an opinion only holds merit if it is held by the majority? Where would we be if the few never spoke up simply because everyone else had a different view on things? I'm not saying being mean is a good thing but by you trying to forcefully get Spoony to read your comment and change, you are in turn being a Scrooge as well that is intolerant of other people.

  • Scoobidoo112

    Damn Spoony, once again you manage to review a movie in such a way that a person that is excited for that movie, feels crappy for liking it in the first place. Do you ever go into the cinema thinking, “i’ll just try to enjoy it for what it is and have a good time”?Part of being a reviewer is KNOWING YOUR AUDIENCE, but clearly you missed that point. Because we have not seen a gazillion movies, and most of us go see a movie because we 1. Want to or 2. Give it a fair shot, so next time, try to review movies in a way that we can RELATE to you and your review.I like you, im a fan, i’ve been for a long time now, but out of all the video’s its the movie reviews that make ME feel crappy.

    • Anonymous

      “I like you, im a fan, i’ve been for a long time now, but out of all the video’s its the movie reviews that make ME feel crappy.” Kinda how alot of people feel about Avatar

  • llimar263

    i guess i was probably out of line on some of my points and I appologise. I did not mean to come off that way and I said it was perfectly ok he did not like the movie i just did not approve of the way he replied to some of the people who tried to defend it. I was not trying to convert him into liking the movie, but i just really liked the quote the other reviewer said and thought i would use it, and asking for help to get him to read it was also out of line and again i appologise you could say that i am not very sure how many of these comments are actualy read and i thought that he should at least hear some diffrent opinions thats all.

  • SPac316

    I have no desire to see this movie either. The plot sounds weak. It does look interesting, but meh…we've seen it all before. As much as I respect James Cameron, I'll pass. I'm just a jaded bastard!

  • spectervonbaren

    :) I'm very glad you gave such a calm response. Indeed. Just because I think Spoony should have his opinion doesn't mean I condole him being a jerk to people, I'm sorry to hear that he was getting cheesed off with people. Though I think Spoony being so pessimistic is part him having watched so many movies, it kind of desensitizes a person when you've been exposed to so much. You tend to become a person that can't appreciate anything other than the best of the best and don't really appreciate the simpler things.

    I think this Avatar movie is probably a good movie, but at the same time, I haven't been really interested to see it and I don't really buy into the hype of it. Maybe I'm missing a key part of this debate because I haven't seen the movie, I don't know.

    But again, I'm glad to see that you are a calm and logical minded person, a rare thing to find.

  • llimar263

    thank you. In regard of seeing avatar it is a realy good movie now i am a little biased because i am such a huge cameron fan but i will say this. If you have any intrest at all in seeing the movie you owe it to yourself to see it on the biggest and best screen possible because the spectacle of the movie is really something to behold.

  • Eniliad

    I do agree that the graphics in the CG are indeed the first of any movie to cross the Uncanny Valley and make it look and act naturally – the problem is, however, that all GC movies have a “sheen” that real life doesn't have – which leads Noah and myself to agree that I don't “buy it”.

  • AdmiralAwesome

    I don't know, Davy Jones in Pirates had a really well done face.

  • Eniliad

    That is true, Davy Jones looked pretty damn good. I guess I should say “as a general rule”.

  • ImpudentInfidel

    Go on TvTropes and look up Noble Savage and Mighty Whitey. Play both entirely straight, even though both are largely discredited any more for being completely racist. Set it on a Death World with a powerful Genus Loci. You now have the entire story. Seriously, the teaser trailer for this movie was a complete plot summary.

    The effects are what you expect from fantasy movies anymore, they're nothing special.

  • Gauphastus

    Woooow. I just saw this sucker in that digital 3D gizmocrap.
    God damn. I am floored. I haven't been this satisfied with a movie in over a decade. Sure, I've had some great laughs with stuff like Zombieland, and some good old dumb fun with 300. And you know, lots of others as well.
    But to feel all around totally satisfied? Fulfilled even? That was just grand. A grand experience.
    I thought the pacing was spot on. I didn't feel at any point like we were hurrying along to the climax.
    The visuals are, as you may have already heard, beautiful.
    The story isn't bad by any means at all. It feels fine to me to see a story along these lines told with all this new CG stuff. The special effects were magnificent.

    But yadda yadda yadda. Each and every one of you out there knows what you're gonna do.
    Whether you want to see it or you don't, you've probably already made your choice.

    As for Spoony's comments, which I saw before seeing Avatar, they didn't come to mind in the least. I'll tell you why too: it's because Spoony is as much a regular guy like the rest of you out there, or like any of the folks I hang out with. It's all just your everyday commentary, as brilliant or as unsubstantial as you want it to be.

    Don't take everything straight to heart so much, guys.
    And maybe go see yourself a movie, forget about all this, have some fun.

    :)

  • jebediah_1111

    Just my opinion. This movie spent 230 million dollars trying to show us how shitty we are. They could have used that money to actually help the world. I do not understand what this movie is trying to say or do or be.

    • Anonymous

      And you can cut your cost by 30% by changing your budget and use that to actually help the world, yet you don’t. What’s your point?

      • Anonymous

        Your mom gives me 90% percent of her budget. Joking. I just posted a comment earlier that I can’t or don’t even feel like defending or re-reading.

  • douglas3o3

    I can relate to this as well, I felt pretty bad myself after listening to some of the things that they said. I think that it may be because Spoony himself took it very seriously and his hate for it was so pure that it gave those who liked it stronger feelings about there thoughts on the film. But I feel that alot of people need to understand that this is just Spoony's (and Miles') opinion .I think that more people that watch any review like this do not have to take things so personal. I am a fan of Spoony, and I absolutely loved avatar, that doesn't mean that I have to listen to Spoony. Unfortunately what I think we fail to take into account is that his personal opinion is nothing more than what it is, a personal opinion. I highly doubt that either Miles or Spoony are attempting to shove there personal opinion in our face and make us take it, accept it, and make it our own, its just there thoughts.
    I actually avoided the presence of this movie, didn't really see a trailer until I was about to go see it and to me sounded unoriginal.
    I saw it, and I totally got swept into it. I loved every minute of it, I seriously didn't want it to end.
    and after watching this review, I don't think any less of it, but I found myself looking at a lot of what they said. It is good to be able to relate to some of what he is talking about, and from this review I found myself questioning some things mentioned. (Like the waterfalls…seriously how the fuck does that work when there seriously floating in the air? XD)
    And I could see the obvious related movie plots as well, but since I had not seen dancing with wolves I saw Pocahontas which included singing certain songs that matched up with certain parts of the film silently to myself during the movie.
    But overall, I didn't try and glare threw it, I just allowed it to take me on the journey it had to offer and it did not disappoint.
    I don't agree with yea Spoony and Miles, but I see where you are coming from.
    You two are a great team, the way you are able to control yourselves from jumping into each others argument is unfathomable and I wish more people could handle themselves like that.

    P.S
    Supposedly there is to be 2 sequels to this movie, this call was to be made off of how successful the movie turned out to be. So far, it looks like its doing pretty well.

  • douglas3o3

    quite.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Cory-Heenan/100000371843754 Cory Heenan

    I completely agree with your rant about the Preachy nature of movies like this, and it is pretty annoying and such.
    And i thought it was pretty funny with eating the chicken sandwhich, just kind of random

  • http://soldierhawk.wordpress.com/ SoldierHawk

    Yeah, but dude…part of being an adult is understanding that people have different tastes and opinions. If you honestly let a reviewer's opinion make you feel lousy for enjoying a movie, then its time to step away and refocus. We watch Spoony and other critics (I hope) to *see what they think*, and to compare our opinions and experience to theirs. We don't come to them to be spoon-fed an opinion, or be told our opinion is right or wrong. They are just that–opinions. Just because yours is different (even WAY different) from Spoony's doesn't make it any less valid. (And that's not a knock on Noah; I have a feeling he'd agree with that completely.)

  • Exar_kun

    i don't think the movie put “americans” as bad guys. I think it was a generic example, representing not only americans. Also the spanish coming to america, was the same thing. It is just a representation of the things that happen when a technological advance culture comes in contact with “primitive”cultures. In general, the result is genocide, or something like that. And ofcourse the message is we have do not have the right to interfiere with other cultures. At least that is the way I see it.

    anyway, i liked the movie, but i didnt think it was great. im a little disspaointed, for all the reason spoony mentioned, but I don't think is a bad movie at all. But I belive this movie was already done. I mean for every theme the movie touched, there has been other movies that managed that same theme in a very similar way.

  • Anonymous

    I liked the movie and I thought seeing it in 3D was awesome. It really helped to immerse one in the world that has been created. Is 3D a gimmick? Unfortunately a lot of movies use it as a gimmick but that is not the case here. I think 3D can add to a movie and that it can be used effectively. I would think a movie like Lawrence of Arabia could benefit from 3D. It can help to place you on those grand landscapes and give you a real sense of depth to the world they are traveling through. 3D shouldn’t change a movie but enhance the movie.As for the animation and the future of actors and blah blah blah. I am pretty sure you commented about something along the lines of ‘What is the point of actors if you are going to animate it anyway?’ I don’t think that is the case. The point of the motion capture technology is to get all of the facial expressions of an actor and all of the movement. The actor is still there but instead the costume is applied later and with all of the emotion that their facial expressions convey.I saw 2012 and thought it was 100% garbage. All of the characters in that movie pissed me off the whole way through. I felt like that movie talked down to me with every scene that Oliver Platt was in. You loved his snarkiness but I just rolled my eyes the instant he came onto the screen. I felt the whole point of his character was to explain the obvious to the audience. Thinking about it now, I think that was only aggravatingly annoying to me because the rest of the movie and characters were already grating on me.I also thought 2012 looked like a PS3 game while Avatar looked like a real world…a really bizarre world but real none the less. How the plants that light up when you touch them and many other things work, I don’t know but I am not a botanist and I can for some reason buy into that in the way that you couldn’t which is why I thought the movie looked great. 2012 on the other hand, I couldn’t buy into the crap that was going on in that movie. Lightening Storms and wind everywhere? Tidal waves almost as tall as Mt. Everest? I couldn’t buy into that ridiculousness but with Avatar I instinctively think “It is an alien world so why not?”Crazy how suspension of disbelief works from person to person or how we perceive characters or the message of a movie by how sucked into we become. I saw this in RealD 3D. I am going to see this again in a Dolby 3D theater as I hear that technology is better at giving the viewer a sense of depth.

  • Shygetz

    Davy Jones was well done, but it also wasn't a humanoid face…it didn't have to worry about the Uncanny Valley because it was SUPPOSED to be creepy. If they had tried to CGI Davy Jones as more human, less squid, you'd be singing a different tune I bet.

  • jimbojones666

    Ahh, Spoony, normally I'd take your word for it, but after you compared Transformers 2 (a perfectly awful movie, no argument) to Twilight and Battlefield Earth, I just can't take your hate seriously anymore. That was like comparing a serial killer to Hitler.

    In this case, I shall trust your much less emotional, reactionary brother and give it a watch.

  • NightChime

    I saw this movie in 3D, and the visuals were totally stunning. It is absolutely worth the extra $2 or so to see this movie in its ideal format. I agree with your brother that the planet itself is a really enjoyable thing to look at, so why wouldn't it look even better in 3D? You contradict yourselves this way, but your review is so long I guess I can't hold it against you to make a contradiction to a point you made.

    And you guys are right on the money, in that this movie has a really unoriginal story, unimaginative characters, etc. And that it's the spectacle, the viewing experience of this movie that's really great. So what happened to just enjoying the cinematic event of enjoying a movie that is exciting, and looks great? You were so generous to 2010, why not Avatar?

  • NightChime

    Actually I just watch Spoony because he's usually funny.

  • llimar263

    Wow what a huge debate we here at the spoonyexperiment managed to spark. What do you say in spirit of the holidays we let bigons be bigons and agree to disagree *raises hands in the air* who's with me?

  • http://planetthorburn.tumblr.com thorbie

    I love it when Spoony reviews a film. He's always so in depth and critical, and really makes you either want to watch or stay away from a film.

  • http://soldierhawk.wordpress.com/ SoldierHawk

    Yep, that works too. :D

  • Swingontehspiral

    lol i was about to say i love that you dont go easy on hyped movies (except i thought 2012 was alot worse than this movie and you actually enjoyed it) but i noticed an avatar big mac ad on the side of your comments section. we're all sellouts spoony, from the people who clean up shit, to the people who sell us music and movies. we do what we have to for a dollar, and if cameron copy and pasted dances with wolves into his movie than i applaud his cojones. the floating mountains were just to look cool, but i liked the matrixy nature aspect of it. hell, maybe im being too generous here, but im just happy to see an adequate sci fi movie again.

  • maxnrosy

    Gread Vlog. what makes it better is that even the bum from that guy with the glasses, well Doug Agrees with Spoony.

    Now keep bringing out your brother it does enhance your Vlogs as we see 2 opinions. (p.s. My wife says your brothers a hunk XD)

  • http://twitter.com/imaginescence Imaginescence

    I don't have much to say because I entirely agree with Miles : Spoony's points are valid, the movie does have a bland storyline and elements taken from many movies (although the USB-port is more a general modern theme started by the Matrix, I think), but I still had fun watching it. I saw the flaws as I sat in the theater, but I could still enjoy to acting, the hammy colonel and marvel at the alien CGI world.

    It's a movie you should really go see on the big screen and leave it at that, because I doubt it will become a cult classic. And even if you have a home cinema, you'll probably lose much of the movie's scale and epic feel.

  • Power Bar

    the story is not unoriginal, it a re-tale of a beautiful story, and the characters have a good depth, but i do agree with you in one point, the cinematic experience, the visual awesomeness that it is in 3D, and it a good freaking love story! not a new one, but a good one!
    and its 2012 xD

    best of luck ^^

  • Power Bar

    hell i like you already xD
    i agree with you, every one must form they're own opinion, i do love spoony's work but i like to see for my self.
    and god you do make the same points i'm trying to make, the story is not new, but its a good story non the less!
    and the effects are beautiful, why am i repeating you?

    well just to force your words, maybe they will get out there! ^^

  • EatTheHumans

    Come to think of it I'm sick and tired of being told to feel guilty for things that happened before I was born too. I mean what do they seriously think it's going to accomplish? Should we all go out and hug a Native America? Or in my countries case go and hug the french to say sorry for invading them so many times?

    You're right spoonster it's old it's preachy and it doesn't actually achieve anything apart from irritating people.

  • Anonymous

    Okay Spoony… Really, how can you bash this movie when you told people to watch “2012”? I mean, you have some points, but really better than 2012?!

  • dsprox

    That was a good review, very critical on things that need a really in depth perspective. Your brother should do more vlog movie reviews with you, this one and Transformers 2 are in my top 5 of your movie vlogs. The transformers 2 one really hit home because I had gone with my cousin and we sat in the second to front row just like you and looked back at the people laughing thinking to ourselves how stupid are these people?

  • darkfirec

    Good review with some valid points. Personally, I liked the movie. The story was good enough but the visuals were amazing especially in 3D. My main complaint about Spoony's review though was that he went in expecting it to be crap which is why he didn't go see it in 3D, so he has a bias against it unlike his brother who just went in to enjoy it.

  • mandrel87

    Okay, I'll definitely agree that this movie is awful. Really awful.

    But my point here is that I am now entirely dropping your videos because you complain about movies like this being morality plays against things in the past/established events that you cannot change nor control. You made a somewhat fair point, except the fact that you met winning the web award with bitching about people disagreeing and/or trolling you on the internet for it. “Gosh complaining about minor backlash from winning an award will make everyone be nice on the internet seeing as people not agreeing with each other on such a vast, anonymous medium is so unnatural!”

    Man up Spoony. Your glory days ended long ago and you are quickly descending into the pits of being a very needy, very self centered attention black hole. Except unlike light, I am escaping the hell out of this site before the forces of self-important suck consume my soul.

  • SlyDeathsHead

    Spoony, you're always too cynical with your film reviews. I'm stating to make a point of ignoring your film opinions because your reviews always seem to bolster the negative and your comments never seem to match the overall experience.

  • tortillathxbye

    i think the trick to enjoy this movie is to not be victim to any hype at all.
    when i first went to see it i pretty much didn't have any expectations. i'm not a very big fan of sci-fi nor am i a fan of CG, but when walking in with no expectations, this movie really delivers. this movie really depends on what mood you're in. if you walk in with the attitude “oh boy, just another CGI-film”, of course it's gonna suck! personally i think the scenery was epic, i had no problem with the characters and i found them very well developed. yes it does rip off many other movies. i'd like to compare it to Pocahontas, as the story is almost the same. i laugh at everyone who is saying the movie is racist. yeah we've all seen the stereotypical ruthless corporate americans, but it's mostly a reflection of the greed of mankind. it would on the other hand be racist if the “bad” humans were for example russian,seeing how the creator is american (or english idk), as seen in hundreds of popular movies made in america. ( i won't mention any because i think most of you can think of a couple in just a few seconds.)

    now, if you have a problem with a movie that has a moral involved, then it's not a movie you should see. i think neglecting a movie because it has a moral is just plain stupid. a huge amount of great movies has a moral, and only a few are able to make a really great film without it. on this, Quentin Tarantino and Robert Rodriguez are experts, and they don't need a moral to make an excellent film. i don't really get how you can be so gentle in the review of 2012, and then bash this movie into the gutter. if you want to bash a CGI- or special effect film, then knock yourself out on G.I Joe, which was a shitstain of major proportions. i hate that movie by all my heart and it was painful to the limits of inhumane…

    i must admit, Avatar blew me away, and i think it's because i wasn't a victim of any hype at all. i didn't find it racially offending as im not American, and i laugh at whoever was offended by it. the CGI was groundbreaking, and the 3D really enhanced it. it's pretty much a movie that is mostly good in theaters, which is why im gonna see it again while it's still being shown in theater.

    for the most part i'm into sub-culture movies and i enjoy the charm of low-budget movies, but this was really impressing. bashing on it for not using real life effects such as in the first 3 star-wars movies is plain stupid, and it would hardly be as good if they used that instead of CGI. i think they would have gotten more hate if they did it that way instead. people would be going “we've got this great CGI technology and they decided that they were going to use cheap ass real life effects”.

    phew this comment became way longer than i expected. well, it's a good movie, definitely worth the money, but a victim to hype such as Obama. when people make it sound as if it's the best movie ever, of course it's not gonna deliver.

    watch this movie, without to high expectations.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      You know what? No, it’s not a good movie. No with the hype and not without either. Just accept it already.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Jaskulski/100000288407280 Jason Jaskulski

    Carter Burke rules.

  • DeathsHead419

    Seriously, this 2012 Bullshit has eaten the remains of the History channel alive and fuled a huge panicky group. Thousands of people contacted NASA thinking the viral site for this film was real, some CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE. Seriously, this 2012 shit needs to STOP.

    Say what you want about Avatar as a film, but 2012 is a work of EVIL. It is the lowest form of scum that preys on the fears of humanity. People believe this shit, and that film adds fule to the fire. Avatar might be preachy, but it won't KILL PEOPLE!

    Mark my words, people will sell everthing they own, they will be devastated when nothing happens, and they will kill themselves.

  • DeathsHead419

    Seriously, this 2012 Bullshit has eaten the remains of the History channel alive and fuled a huge panicky group. Thousands of people contacted NASA thinking the viral site for this film was real, some CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE. Seriously, this 2012 shit needs to STOP.

    Say what you want about Avatar as a film, but 2012 is a work of EVIL. It is the lowest form of scum that preys on the fears of humanity. People believe this shit, and that film adds fule to the fire. Avatar might be preachy, but it won't KILL PEOPLE!

    Mark my words, people will sell everthing they own, they will be devastated when nothing happens, and they will kill themselves.

  • inamidato

    How could you bash Avatar so much while recommending 2012? OK, Avatar is not original nor groundbreaking, but at least is a movie! 2012 is just a big roller-coaster mixed with annoying sentimentalism and patriotism.

  • sgrey

    I dont know why you try to say that the concept of the hair USB port thing is so out there that you can't accept it. You accepted that a gold band ring can make a 3 foot tall furry foot person become invisible so the concept of a totally alien world where these creatures evolved from a world with a super network of plants and animals is just too far out there?

    There are 3 things you can say in any story that should put that away. 1 – It's magic, 2 – its super advanced technology, 3 its COMPLETELY ALIEN TO US. You can accept magic and super advanced technology, but oh no- things that evolved differently on another world far away? That's too far out there.

    I also think considering you talked about all the hype you would also know a bit more about the 3D. All that talk about some kind of “new technique” used. It's not a Gimmick or a trick kinda 3D- its immersion. It's depth. Half of that hype was all about this. And you didn't even see it like that? You went in with that hype all running though your head- and you watched a version that half that hype didnt even fit? Wow.

    There is just- SOOO much about what you said that makes me wonder how you enjoy any kind of fantasy or science fiction. When Darth Vader started choking a guy with “the Force” did you throw you hands up and say “BULL CRAP!”? When Gandalf stood up to the giant fire demon with a stick did you get pissed off that the demon didnt just smack him off the ledge and go after em?

    No I don't think Avatar was the greatest movie ever! It was pretty! That's mostly it. Being an artist I like that- story was old but told well and i quickly remembered I didn't throw indians off my lawn and I didnt make african's work in my garden and Im not responsible for what my great great great- no wait- my family wasnt even around for any of that. Im sure someone had a man servant or something… Regardless- I know its not my fault. Why feel bad? Why not just feel bad for the Blue people? They are trying to make them more real- which is hard because they look so alien to us. So they make you feel sad for them getting killed! Not make you feel bad because once upon a time their were slaves and natives where we live now.

    I find it funny that it's not that you hating the movie is what makes people upset- its why- your inability to accept things as fantasy or beyond understanding. Would you head literally explode if we found a planet where creatures had USB connections? After all… it's a big Universe. As unlikely as it may be here on Earth there is actually a moderate chance that such a thing COULD ACTUALLY EXIST or will exist. We ourselves are working on creating biological computers- it might not be that far off where we will have a physical or wifi connection with our computers and cars…

  • kevindurham

    I disagree with spoony's review. It seems as if he didn't give the film a chance. Yeah, the movie can be a bit preachy, but it's not trying to make you feel that white people are evil. Here's a quote from James Cameron, “the Na'vi represent something that is our higher selves, or our aspirational selves, what we would like to think we are, and that even though there are good humans within the film, the humans represent what we know to be the parts of ourselves that are trashing our world and maybe condemning ourselves to a grim future.” The film's message is to look inside of yourself and see who you really are and who you identify with more. Yeah it's a little cheesy, but it's a better way to look at it.

    Also, James Cameron said that it was a retelling of Dances with Wolves and all of those other movies. I'm tired of people complaining that this movie is a huge rip off. Was the West Side Story unoriginal just because it had the same plot as Romeo and Juliet? I would think no, it wasn't.

    Oh, and stop complaining about how the world of Pandora doesn't make any sense. If they tried to explain all of the plants and animals and locations in the movie, it would be over 6 hours long. That is why there is the Avatar survival guide, a book which explains all of Pandora's mysteries if you are interested in learning about them. I was reading about the hallelujah mountains, and it turns out that they float because of a magnetic field that surrounds them, probably caused by a shift in the unabtanium, which is why the human's technology didn't work in that area. It actually goes into a lot of detail as to how the mountains were formed and why they float, and its only 1/90th of the book, so pick it up if you are interested.

    I'm also sick and tired of people bitching about the Navi pony tail. So you say this movie isn't original, and then you call one of the most original ideas in the movie stupid? I think that people wanted to hate this movie from the start. I thoroughly enjoyed this movie, and I hope that others do too. It's definitely worth a watch, and it beats the shit out of all the other movies out right now.

  • Burncan

    It's hilarious how apparently any of us who didn't love Avatar must not have given it a fair chance, or some such bullshit.

    Here's a theory. Maybe some people just recognized that it was a bad movie that depended entirely on flashy visuals and director name recognition to get gullible idiots into theaters. The story has been rehashed so many times, and it wasn't even told well in this film. As an artist, it sickens me that people are raving about this CGI wank-fest.

    I fully agree with Noah on this one.

  • kingswing

    “the story is not unoriginal, it a re-tale of a beautiful story”

    I want you to read that back to yourself a hundred times until you see how it is an oxymoron

    • Power Bar

      yeah i do get your point, its not new, its a re-tale so its unoriginal, i do get it.
      but that doesn’t make it less beautiful or does it?
      it’s not supposed to be a ground breaking complex story, its supposed to have a familiar feeling, so that every one can enjoy,

      its just my opinion of course ^^

  • Anonymous

    I Know this comment will be washed away in the masses of other comments on this site but i felt like writing this anyway. I never saw dances with wolves I’ve never had any interest in any shape or form In my 28 years of existence. So until this review I never knew what that one was even about. So I guess I don’t have that bias against Avatar being a rip off of dances, though I do get it, but it doesn’t change my thoughts on the movie. My first thought after seeing it is if this is meant to be a trilogy wheres it going to go, as I see that as to this will be brought above it Dances with wolves comparison. Unlike you I had no problem believing in Pandora and getting sucked into its world, I do wish it had a but more explanation for say the floating mountains, but it can always be explained later. It may just be my complete lack in reality that allows the hair “ports” to make more sense to me, But as soon as I saw that I figured the whole planet was one giant living entity and the na’vi are it’s white blood cells so to speak. To maintain a healthy and balanced planet they can connect to everything else to either gain knowledge or impart knowledge.

    and a side thing I did see this in Imax 3d and I do have to say this was the first 3D movie where i felt it genuinely popped out at me at times. It was mainly the small stuff that gave the effect but no other movie has given me that feeling.

  • Skywalkersc

    if i would have been miles and spoony always would roll his eyes or start munching when i disagree with him i probally would have punched him in the head

  • kefkaesque

    Seems the Nostalgia Critic agrees with Spoony:

    http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/tha

  • dragonfly82

    Doug disliked District 9 because it was “ripping off of other movies”,
    he ain't much better of a critic……

  • Eniliad

    And you guys say Spoony's the reactionary. A few things go awry on the site, and he gives an opinion a bunch of fanboys don't like (which is only *what he's known for*) and suddenly he's a has-been? You guys really expected the Spoony One to be anything other than a cynical curmudgeonly bastard? That's the main reason I watch this site.

  • nanoreaper

    I agree with Spoony this movie was 3 hours of a white guilt fest, not original in anyway what so ever. It was left wing sermon and i was at the movies not church. There were several ways this movie could be been better here is just one

    Here what should have happened to make this a good movie. A the aliens cause a little bit trouble then a huge corporate military fleet enters orbit. they start by dropping shock mecha forces who eliminate all the military assets of the of Aliens disrupting the ore harvest operation. Then Aliens continued to disrupt mining operation. The mining corporation would pull out. Then it's orbital forces would simply glass the planet from orbit. with thermal nuclear warheads clearing all the pesky trees and vegetation, for efficient ore harvest.

    it would send a powerful message, that actual wouldn't be over preachy and the plot would be more complex than a comic book. This film does nothing but prove that standards for a truly epic work have been lowered to that of cheap parlor tricks.

  • nanoreaper

    I shouldn't have to buy a book to fully enjoy a movie. The story lacked DEPTH, it was predictable. I think most people are being swept up in the CGI glitz and are substituting effects for plot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Cole/611205878 Alexander Cole

    Personally i disagree with this review almost completely, excluding the comments about some of the biosphere/physics quirks of Pandora. You bill this film as a 'white man guilt trip', as a movie which is preachy in almost every level of portrayal of it's message. For one, Avatar takes the tack of Mike Resnick's book Purgatory in not representing white greed per say (although the west and europe, primarily inhabited by Caucazoidal Homosapiens are well known for their heinous actions towards indigenous peoples in the past), but is representing the operational method of, if not humanity as a whole, then at leas that part in ourselves which is capable of such acts.

    The destruction of the Home Tree is analogous to the trillions of terabytes of data that have been lost in the destruction of the religious texts, languages and the stamping out of the cultures of peoples caught in the firing line of advancing modern society. Think for a second, which is worth more, an ounce of raritanium, or a potential biological network that can transfer a virtually unlimited amount of data in real time and which can be accessed anywhere on the planet by anyone with the correct technology.

    Also realize that the humans seemed hell bent on 'helping' the Na'vi to become like them utilizing technology, ect. While I agree on the exchange of information, cramming it down thier throats didn't seem the answer. No one seemed to consider that perhaps they should be allowed to evolve and develop thier own advances with minimal intervention.

    Regarding my opinion of the film, Neteryi's actress was the best I've seen this year. More emotion was shoved into those glowing golden oculars and it's accompanying face than I've seen displayed on films in decades. Sure some of the lines were wince worthy and they could have sped up the beginning ( a documentary style District 9 approach would have worked) but all in all it's better than Signs. And far better than DBZ

    Toodles-Alex

  • kevindurham

    No need to get angry. It just seemed that everyone hated this movie, and I don't see why.

    • Anonymous

      When I see a story I do not want everything to be explained, I wasnt to be stunned by some things that are beautiful, some ugly and scaray things and some things that are utterly strange.If you read classic science-fiction like Stanislaw Lem you will understand what I mean.In his storys some things are just as they are and they are not explored upon any more than with the characters senses.When I see or hear or read a story I want to be surprised, awed, astonished, I want to be weeping or laughing.When a movie is able to trigger an emotional response in me I am satisfied.There are on the other hand movies like Rainman. Do not get me wrong, I fucking love Dustin Hoffmann, but Rainman is one of those Hollywood-movies that are just trying oh-so-fucking-hard to get an emotional response out of people.Rainman failed to get an emotional response from me because its characters are not honest enough.The Characters from Avatar were believable in all of their reactions, there lies the realism that I search for in movies.Even the scared military dude never did anything that did not fit his character, sure he was insane, but believable.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

        Honestly, if you find the military dude believable then I actually understand why you like this movie: You’re an idiot.

    • Anonymous

      When I see a story I do not want everything to be explained, I wasnt to be stunned by some things that are beautiful, some ugly and scaray things and some things that are utterly strange.If you read classic science-fiction like Stanislaw Lem you will understand what I mean.In his storys some things are just as they are and they are not explored upon any more than with the characters senses.When I see or hear or read a story I want to be surprised, awed, astonished, I want to be weeping or laughing.When a movie is able to trigger an emotional response in me I am satisfied.There are on the other hand movies like Rainman. Do not get me wrong, I fucking love Dustin Hoffmann, but Rainman is one of those Hollywood-movies that are just trying oh-so-fucking-hard to get an emotional response out of people.Rainman failed to get an emotional response from me because its characters are not honest enough.The Characters from Avatar were believable in all of their reactions, there lies the realism that I search for in movies.Even the scared military dude never did anything that did not fit his character, sure he was insane, but believable.

    • Anonymous

      When I see a story I do not want everything to be explained, I wasnt to be stunned by some things that are beautiful, some ugly and scaray things and some things that are utterly strange.If you read classic science-fiction like Stanislaw Lem you will understand what I mean.In his storys some things are just as they are and they are not explored upon any more than with the characters senses.When I see or hear or read a story I want to be surprised, awed, astonished, I want to be weeping or laughing.When a movie is able to trigger an emotional response in me I am satisfied.There are on the other hand movies like Rainman. Do not get me wrong, I fucking love Dustin Hoffmann, but Rainman is one of those Hollywood-movies that are just trying oh-so-fucking-hard to get an emotional response out of people.Rainman failed to get an emotional response from me because its characters are not honest enough.The Characters from Avatar were believable in all of their reactions, there lies the realism that I search for in movies.Even the scared military dude never did anything that did not fit his character, sure he was insane, but believable.

  • kevindurham

    You don't have to buy anything, but if you want information that isn't needed in the story, you could buy the book. Personally, I didn't find any fault in the story. It wasn't the best plot, but it wasn't bad.

  • mev186

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. So here's mine. Is it The Greatest Science Fiction Story of All time ? No. Having said that, It's pretty good. An easy 7/10. I think though, it's because I've never seen “Dances with Wolves.” I've seen Ferngully and that other Disney movie that shall not be named. Is the story itself the most original over ? No. But If You've seen enough movies, alot of stuff seems to overlap. Not only movies, but nearly every medium has that issue. I could list twenty TV Shows that used that formula. And as far at the “no grey area” Of course the hardened military guys are gonna wanna blow shit up. And to their defense, they did try to relocate the Na'vi before running them out. It was Jake who decided to “go native” which stopped that. If He had not let it become personal. It may have been different. Anyway, just my two cents. Even though I disagreed with you guys, it was still a fun vid to watch. Can't wait for the next one!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lawrence-Cicchetti/100000525828026 Lawrence Cicchetti

    I really liked avatar
    I started out expecting nothing because that much advertising would just make more hype

    and about the “preachiness” well the cultural parallels also come from the celtic druids, not just from native americans, there was alot of cultural parallels. The point is that its a way of accessing pathos. The point of the movie is to entertain, that's it.

    It sounds like you just hated it from the beginning, though, so there isnt much anyone can do about that, i just wanted to say my two cents

  • DeathsHead419

    Actually 2012 is a giganic pile of gas cans Rolland Emmerich poured onto an already out-of-control fire. I don't know how many of you are aware of this, but this end-of-days crap is gaining ground. Scharlatins or self-deluded manics are schilling this shit non-stop in book and on the history channel. People will die, I'm certain of that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Josh-Martin/507578975 Josh Martin

    1) Unoriginal Plot: So? That's a part of your argument? Really? Do you know how many unoriginal movies everyone enjoys at some point in their lives?

    2) Stereotype Characters: Look at Aliens, Abyss, Terminator, Terminator 2, Titanic and you'll find much of the same polarizations. Yes there are some exceptions within each movie, but there are a lot of stock characters.

    3) White Guilt: What? Most of the movie that Cameron has done have had some kind of message regarding the human condition, not necessarily white. You are probably projecting your own perspective onto this, but regardless of whether you are or not you can look at the implications made in Terminator, T2 and the Abyss and possibly even into Titanic and Aliens as to some concepts and themes that take a critical look at human action and the rightness or wrongness of it. I doubt that the film had as much white guilt-tripping as you say, considering you're scathing reviews generally are so impassioned as to cause way too much hyperbole to take seriously.

    4) Tech issues: You take umbrage with floating mountains? Fuck off, really? This is nitpicking at its finest.

    5) Rip-off claims: Mechs are cool, Cameron has used Mechs before so claiming a Matrix rip-off is stupid. Not to mention that Cameron had two movies dedicated to Machines vs. Humans before the Matrix was even a glimmer in the Wachowskis eyes. Dances With Wolves/Pocahontas Parallels….yea, which was admitted by Cameron…what's wrong with telling the same story a new way?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      1) Many other movies may have unoriginal plots. This movie however was a 100% completely unoriginal, there’s a big fucking difference.
      2) Other movies may also have stereotypes. This movie however had stereotypes so stereotypic that a 5 year old would find them childish.
      4) The floating mountains were an EXAMPLE! Have you heard of the word “example”?

  • CrenshawPete

    “long-ish time viewer, first time poster”

    If i ever end up watching Avatar, it will probably be when it's eventually on one of the super channel's in a year or so of time.
    I really agree about the CG factor, in that it's really overused and rubs me the wrong way aswell. I grew up watching alot of films from the 70's and 80's, and from that I hold traditional effects like wire work, stop frame, latex appliances etc, pretty close to me.

    Your brother has pretty much the same outlook as i do,
    it doesn't matter so much if a plot is re-used, it's HOW it's re-used, and how entertaining it ends up being.
    I chuckled at “cop that doesn't play by the rules”, the first thing that popped into my head was Cobra.

    Great review.

  • draxo

    Loved the review, very entertaining. For what its worth, I agree with you fully.

    Your brother is great, I hope these 'duo reviews' become a regular thing.

  • iceyy

    I just like to add to Matrix rip-off claims. Cameron actually came up with the mech controlling thing

    Early James Cameron student film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53UL_dUqY5s#t=2m17s

    spoony clearly you do not know anything about sci-fi movies…

  • http://www.facebook.com/Certifiable Sam Timmins

    As an epileptic moviegoer, the 3D does well to enhance some parts, doesn't overdo it (video screens, the unobtanium in the office, the action scenes e.t.c) and doesn't play havoc with the head or eye more than my usual troubles, so it's pretty sweet to be able to use them AFTER a day of being tired and still having no problem!

  • neonfox3

    calm down people, its a damn opinion. if you like avatar, then FUCKING LIKE IT!!!

  • Necromas

    I love these vlogs.

  • Mr.Oakum

    Thank you Spoony, for being one of the few people to rant on the Fern Gully aspect of this movie. The moment I saw the second trailer I knew where this movie was going and it wasn’t gonna be pretty.

    I’ve lived through the patronizing movies of the 90’s and their foul and poisonous ash still linger in my gut. No more, I tell you, no more!

  • droodle

    It bugs me when people say they can't suspend disbelief with CGI. Really? You have no trouble suspending disbelief with stop-motion animation and people in rubber costumes? No trouble with normal animated movies? Maybe you have an arguement where there's constant blending of live-action with CG, but like Myles said – Avatar is essentially an animated feature, and the few places where they do blend live with CG it's done more seemlessly than any movie ever.

    More importantly Cameron has managed to solve numerous animation problems with his new process of motion capture. Every CG movie I've seen with rendered humanoids has issues where their movement and facial animations look unnatural, too smooth is the best way I can describe it. The Na'vi in Avatar don't have this problem at all, their movements are incredibly lifelike, this alone is a big step forward in CGI technology – and it's not the only one Avatar makes.

    In fairness I agree with many of Noah's other complaints, the movie is derivitive and quite silly at times, but it didn't detract much for me. Just something about a film that's plot revolves around 12 ft tall blue aliens defending their home against the EVIL earthlings makes me not want to take it too seriously. In fact many of the rediculous moments were just silly enough to have me chuckling and enjoying the movie a little more. Of course the staying power comes from the top-of-the-line visual effects and superbly crafted action sequences, two things I'm kinda a sucker for.

  • droodle

    It bugs me when people say they can't suspend disbelief with CGI. Really? You have no trouble suspending disbelief with stop-motion animation and people in rubber costumes? No trouble with normal animated movies? Maybe you have an arguement where there's constant blending of live-action with CG, but like Myles said – Avatar is essentially an animated feature, and the few places where they do blend live with CG it's done more seemlessly than any movie ever.

    More importantly Cameron has managed to solve numerous animation problems with his new process of motion capture. Every CG movie I've seen with rendered humanoids has issues where their movement and facial animations look unnatural, too smooth is the best way I can describe it. The Na'vi in Avatar don't have this problem at all, their movements are incredibly lifelike, this alone is a big step forward in CGI technology – and it's not the only one Avatar makes.

    In fairness I agree with many of Noah's other complaints, the movie is derivitive and quite silly at times, but it didn't detract much for me. Just something about a film that's plot revolves around 12 ft tall blue aliens defending their home against the EVIL earthlings makes me not want to take it too seriously. In fact many of the rediculous moments were just silly enough to have me chuckling and enjoying the movie a little more. Of course the staying power comes from the top-of-the-line visual effects and superbly crafted action sequences, two things I'm kinda a sucker for.

  • Mr.Oakum

    Thank you Spoony, for adressing the Fern Gully aspect of this movie. From the moment I saw the second trailer I knew where this movie was going and it wasn't gonna be pretty.

    iIve survived the patronizing movies of the 90's and their foul and poisonous ashes still linger in my gut.

  • Mr.Oakum

    Oops, double post, sorry.

    So much for my cool and smooth introduction.

  • Azrael87

    This video showcases part of why Spoony is great. He has a very strong negative opinion of this movie, and he knows he'll get flamed for it. Still, he puts it out there anyway. We can't have our movie critics beings controlled by the opinions of the masses. Otherwise you might as well talk to yourself about in a mirror. Even better still, he brought in someone with a differing opinion to do a point/counterpoint (well…more like a point/point/point/counterpoint, but you can see he tried to hold himself back with food lol) rather than just shove his lone opinion in our faces. Best of all, the set up was very entertaining with the occasional back and forth and the united jokes. You can't really ask for more than that in an honest review.

    With that said, my opinions of Avatar lie more with Miles in that I acknowledge and agree with many of the points Spoony made, but simply wasn't as bothered or insulted by the movie. I won't go into a point by point defense of the movie since the points have been beaten to death in these comments already. If you like it, you know why. If you don't, you know why.

    The one thing Spoony said that I strongly disagree with was that 2012 was better. I have a problem with that, not because of how much I liked Avatar, but how much I didn't like 2012. Maybe its because I was a science major and there was just so much consistent ridiculous in that movie that it hurt my soul. The one thing that made 2012 watchable for me was that they began the absurdity extremely early by saying how neutrons mutated, which can't happen. Ever. Subatomic particles don't mutate because they're not alive and don't have genetic material. When they did that I lowered my expectations for the rest of the movie and allowed myself to be mildly entertained. Until the blonde russian lady drowned even though her compartment should have filled up AFTER the one the family was in (it had the vent leading directly outside). It's as if they said “These characters don't fit our happy family ending. Let's systematically kill them off in absurd ways that wouldn't happen or could be easily avoided.” How can anyone like THAT better than this? Okay. Mini-rant over. Sorry.

    Anyway, keep up the solid work, Spoonman. It's a much appreciated diversion from life.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725826988 facebook-725826988

    Not gonna lie to you. Your reaction to the film screams more of a position of “Well everybody else likes it, so I'm going to hate it so I can seemingly have the unique and on the edge viewpoint of said film”. Why do I accuse you of that? Because sometimes I get like that myself. However I've learned as I've gotten older, to be more objective regardless of hype, to balance out my thoughts on certain mediums and see the good and the bad, and while you did that in a minor way I gotta say your opinion was in some parts kind of ridiculous.

    I won't go into it fully considering alot of people have stated similar feelings (Josh Martin and kevindurham have done a good or close to what I'd say in said response) but I will say this. When I went into the movie, I went into it pretty blind. I never read up on the movie, only saw brief clips and pictures of the Na'vi and not once went to Wikipedia or any other similar site to read the plot. While I saw the South Park episode with the whole “Dances With Smurfs” reference and the revelation of the movie being Avatar, having no knowledge of the plot I never really made the connection. So when I walked out of the theater I walked out pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed the movie, having not cared either way if I would.

    Anyways, the one issue I gotta address that others have is the whole “White Guilt” thing. Do you feel white guilt? Because while the story did have the basic relation to Dances With Wolves, I never felt it was being too “preachy” because it felt more of a backdrop for character. As I watched it I was more drawn into the story of Jake and his connection to the Na'vi which in my mind is what the story is really all about. It's about escapism in alot of ways. Jake having lost the use of his legs, gets a second chance as a Na'vi to live a fuller life than he could as a human. The movie begs for you to fall in love with these people and to cheer for them as their journey puts them in peril of losing their homes and their lives. If you felt talked down to, you missed what the intent was because as stated obviously, the “White Guilt Trip” has been done in much stronger tones in other movies.

    And the science? Please do suspend your disbelief sir. Or else you'll fall into the “there's no sound in Space, so why do we hear lasers in Star Wars?” crowd, nitpicking and subsequently sucking the joy out of any movie that doesn't have it's science down to a 100% reality (because again, movies can be about entertainment and escapism as well)

    Oh and one more thing, 3-D wasn't bad and it didn't end up being too distracting, infact one of the many jokes for the night was that we were all too cool cause we “wear our sunglasses at night” haha.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “And the science? Please do suspend your disbelief sir. Or else you’ll fall into the “there’s no sound in Space, so why do we hear lasers in Star Wars?”” Alright you’re just being a dick. He adressed this topic spefically. It’s obvious you didn’t even fucking listen to what he said in the video.

    • http://www.facebook.com/VitalemRecords Micah J Femino

      So the reason you accuse him of being a hater is because you are guilty of being a hater sometimes. That’s not a good argument. Also – Avatar just plain sucked. He said he wasn’t drawn in. I agree with him.

  • Eniliad

    I totally agree. Spoony has NEVER been about agreeing with the masses. If you don't agree with what he has to say, that's fine. I've been at odds with him on many occasions (For one, I don't hate FF8 as much as he does, though I agree that a lot of the game's premise is ridiculous; I also thought that he was hating a bit too much on several movies that, while they are a bit cheesy, I do like. I'm saying this because my last comments really make me sound like a blind fanboy of Spoony's – I'm not. Just a fan.)

    To me, Avatar is good not for its story or as an artistic achievement, but a technical one. I was wowed by the sheer detail that went into these computer animations, a level of care and architectural design not seen yet in a movie. I think of it as a Tech Demo of sorts: Sure the movie isn't the best, but it does raise the bar for future animated movies and show just what our modern technology can do.

    In short: Avatar by itself is “okay” in my opinion (Spoony also said that at the end), but the technology can be applied to later movies for much better effect.

  • Anonymous

    I thought it would have made it cool if the aliens and the people where both fighting for the land-money like if it both sides where kinda wrong it would have been slightly more original than Avatar

  • Strelnikov

    No I think it shows that you have an obessive knowledge of everything James Cameron's done, including his student work. That aside, what “Xenogenesis” shows is that Cameron has a certain visual vocabulary of science-fiction ideas and that he uses that vocabulary when he makes sci-fi movies. Lots of directors get these sorts of ideas in film school and they spend the rest of their careers working out these concepts in the films they make (Dan O'Bannon's “Dark Star” is a good example.) The trick with Cameron is that his ideas have been used to death outside of Western films (mechs, aliens that can “link up” with trees and animals, etc.) so “Avatar” is not as fresh as it would be if it had been made in 1993.

  • zenrobot

    I gotta tell you, Spoony, I'm a huge fan of your work and all, but this has to be your most mean-spirited review to date. Your rant about “the noble savage who can do no wrong” does not apply here; it's not like they live on some other country that we randomly hopped onto. This is a whole different planet — it is THEIR planet, so of course they can do no wrong. They know everything about their habitat. Humans can't even breathe there. And of course humans are wrong for trying to siphon off their natural resources. It's got nothing to do with “white guilt,” if anything, call it “human guilt,” but don't make an argument about race.
    Think about other alien flicks you've seen. Whenever an unwanted alien race comes and tries to ravage the earth, humans band together and do whatever they can to get the aliens away. In Avatar, the humans are the aliens. So of course the Na'vi are going to resist us. What has “white guilt” got to do with anything?

    • Anonymous

      Yes, it is indeed their planet but the film is a blatant allegory for the US foreign policy and the western world’s colonial history etc and is told from a very one-sided, cliche-liberal-hollywood point of view. As spoony (I think rather correctly) points out, the military force in the movie is portrayed as a group of one-dimensional, “hoo-rah!” psychopaths while the na’vi are the quintessential noble savages with a literal connection to their planet.
      Cameron has stated that avatar is basically derivative of films like “dances with wolves” which largely implies that similar underlying messages are still meant to be interpreted by the viewers, in this case, colonialism is bad…

      Seeing Avatar and saying that “white guilt” has no place in the discussion thereof because aliens are the victims is a lot like reading Miller’s “The Crucible” and saying that it has nothing to do with McCarthyism because the characters are being accused of being witches rather than commies…

    • Anonymous

      And Earth is OUR planet but we do all kinds of wrong to it. But the Navi are a race of Mary Sues. Completely perfect in every conceivable way. And the humans are completely evil in every conceivable way. It’s moral is so incredibly lazy.

      Especially the fight terror with terror line. Cameron’s line of thought was clearly, “I got it! I’ll make a blatant swipe at George Bush. Everyone hates George Bush, so they’ll like my movie!”
      The problem was the Navi had done NOTHING that could be construed as terrorist. In Bush’s case there at least had been some manner of terrorist attack to base claims on. It was just unspeakably lazy.

  • AdmiralAwesome

    Motion capturing isn't new.

  • EatTheHumans

    Against my better judgement I went to see this piece of PISS again tonight.

    It doesn't get better, in fact it gets worse much much worse! So much worse that I actually contemplated leaving the Cinema. The visuals are not as awe inspiring the second time you see it (even in 3D) and the plot just does nothing. And ya wanna know something? It really is offensive the stance this movie takes. I dunno I just find being told to cheer on a bunch of blue arsed aliens as they slaughter a bunch of humans ever so slightly wrong.

    If Cameron really REALLY wanted to beat this dead and rotted corpse. Wouldn't it have been more powerful to have all the Navi slaughtered in the final battle? Instead we have to watch these utterly annoying Jar-Jar Binks style…THINGS, butcher humans by the bucket load.

    Not to mention that final battle is completely stupid beyond all reason. Why does the bomber/shuttle fly along at 5kph? I mean this thing is supposed to be able to hit orbit, so why not just fly up into the upper atmosphere and just bomb the crap out of the Navi? As for the whole “But their sensors can't track us!” THEY'RE USING MACHINE GUNS! You don't need to aim them very much…do you?

    Spoony old chap you're right on the money this movie really is just far too much to swallow. It's shallow, it's stupid, it's banal and it's goddamn offensive! We know all about the Indian Wars we know Westerners have a habit of kicking over peoples houses and setting them on fire, yes it's something of a cultural flaw. But reminding us constantly what shits we are is going to go one thing and one thing only…HONK US OFF! I mean how do they think were going to react? Feel guilty? Give all our money away?

    ARGH… I need to go make somebody write a mod for Dawn of War or something that puts the Navi into the game so we can butcher them good and proper!

    • Anonymous

      If it is a far stretch to go in a movie where humans are killled by aliens and to root for the aliens,
      how do I, as a german, view “Saving Private Ryan”?

    • Anonymous

      If it is a far stretch to go in a movie where humans are killled by aliens and to root for the aliens,
      how do I, as a german, view “Saving Private Ryan”?

    • Anonymous

      If it is a far stretch to go in a movie where humans are killled by aliens and to root for the aliens,
      how do I, as a german, view “Saving Private Ryan”?

  • EatTheHumans

    I think a lot of spoony's rage is down to bad movie making. Asking an audience to identify with a band of humans fighting against invading Aliens is really easy to root for. But asking us to root for a bunch of blue cat people as they slaughter legions of people is just a stretch.

    And I'm not even going to mention the blue alien mating scene. People were actually laughing in the cinema during that bit. Hell by the end of it I was rooting for the crazy redneck colonel. I will happily admit I was laughing my ass off when the huge tree got blown up too, just because it warmed my heart to see so many annoying blue cat people blasted into nothing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Books/603361378 Oliver Books

    Spoony, you are totally right. This movie was absolutely awful. I hated almost every second of it. I want my $11.25 back.

  • willharrison

    For someone who's name is 'EatTheHumans' it's odd you seem to be siding with the humans. Don't you find the blue-cat people even slightly endearing? I mean, they're two to three times the size of humans and they have 'nice muscle tone' hhehe… and they can interface with animals via USB hair thingy.. come on, spare the cute lil devils.

    Seriously though, why would you side with the red neck humans, do you identify with them? Why would this movie make you feel guilty? Have you killed an Indian recently? Tsk tsk bad human.

  • jahith

    Okay this is getting ridiculous now people. I've seen comments that glorify “Avatar” and people that basically making shrines to it and worshiping it. On the other hand we have people that see “TEH DEVIL IN IT” and want to destroy Avatars reputation to the best of their ability. Soon we will have World War III based on that! Calm down people! This is not a perfect cinema. Yes. Neither it is piece of crap! It's “popcorn entertainment” I forward to “Totally Rad Show nr 143” all people who think it sucks YOU TOO SPOONY!!! CG- is not a bad thing! Stop being so racist about it!

  • EatTheHumans

    They're big, they're goofy looking and they shriek like banshees at the slightest provocation. Normally I hate Redneck characters, and I'm certainly not a Redneck myself (for heavens sake man I'm English) I'm just sick of all these boring arsed “Evil corporations Vs Pure Children of the Forest” stories. They're getting old man.

    I think I sided with the Ahyuck Colonel because he was the most fun to watch, didn't scream at me like a certain cat girl I could mention and I was actually hoping for a little pathos in this movie. If the Navi had fought bravely but in the end been gunned down the movie would have been far more powerful in my eyes. As It is I just wanted the Colonel to shoot Jake for being a filthy traitor!

    BTW did anybody else get a Star Wars, Phantom Menace/Return of the Jedi vibe from this trash? The Noble Natives beating the crap out of the vastly superior and way more heavily armed Invaders?

    Oh and I just thought of something good about the cat people. They're bigger than us so they're easier to hit!

  • Anonymous

    So you’d rather see 2012 and it’s 28000 foot wave that can somehow sustain itself all the way to mt everest? How can you even compare that to avatar? while I agree avatar wasn’t the best, 2012 just made me angry at how stupid it expected me to be. How can you even compare the two?

  • Anonymous

    I can’t really disagree with Spoony, I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I can safely say that it’s flat out stupid for people, Spoony or otherwise, to claim that the movie is flat out terrible. You don’t like it? Awesome, you have every right to dislike something. But you’re just fooling yourself if you really believe that it’s as bad as some of you are acting. Wrap your head around the fact that your dislike of something doesn’t make it “terrible”/”unwatchable”/”awful” or whatever other idiotic hyperboles you want to toss around.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      You probably think Battlefield Earth is a great movie, right?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      You probably think Battlefield Earth is a great movie, right?

  • Paper_Banjokami

    Wow, dude, you just have so much hate. It's just a movie. You're complaints are childish, and over exaggerating as well.

    Like the point of them saying their sensors can't track them was so the Na'vi could ambush them, and not be targeted by missiles and what not.

    They didn't slaughter humans either. They were unjustly attacked by humans, and had to defend themselves.

    And saying they're just like Jar Jar Binks… really? These are stupid, nonsensical complaints.

    The humans can't bomb the crap out of the Na'vi from because that's retarded. They didn't have the money to fix Jakes legs, they won't have the money to waste bombs and such like that. That would also make for a lame movie.

    Having the Na'vi lose wouldn't be more powerful either, it would just be a sad ending, where the bad guys won. That's not what Cameron wanted in his movie, it's however he wants it to be, being his movie. You can make a movie where the ending is the way you want it, if you like.

    And so many of you people get so offended by the message. Chill out and enjoy the movie for what it is. The message doesn't even matter, it's about the experience of the movie. You don't have to get so pissy over the message, you don't accomplish anything and it's pointless. If you could get over your overly critical self, then maybe you could enjoy the movie. It's a great visual spectacle, and a nicely told story, with good pacing, and funny cliches.

  • EatTheHumans

    What? So wait….the Humans HAD to lose coz the Navi needed them too? Are you kidding me?

    They're mineing supposedly the most valuable substance in the universe here. Don't you think they could afford to splooge a little and get a couple hundred bombs? For that matter why bother with bombs? Why not spray the whole damn place with Weed Killer?

    I think My friend you need to learn what the term “Plot Hole” means. You can't just ask us to accept that things get cocked up for the adversaries simply because the heroic Jar-Jar types need them to be in order to have that most deplorable of things a brainless happy ending.

    Also 'funny cliches' just NO. Cliches are annoying at any time, and for a movie this hyped and over the top there's no excuse for any cliches what so ever.

    I highly doubt if I got over myself I would enjoy this movie since I'm sort of assuming I would still have sat in a cinema watching blue cat people have sex while a bunch of whooping Hill-billys try and kill the Apaches lead by cheif Sitting Sam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1315419355 facebook-1315419355

    The film perpetuates racist stereotypes of native americans that were outdated when the European invaders landed.

  • Paper_Banjokami

    I didn't say they had to lose. They just did, because Cameron made the movie that way. They got bested by the Na'vi because they were ambushed, and had the planet's animals on their side.

    Doing that would be retarded, and wouldn't make for an exciting movie. I think the Colonel would rather fight, and it's just unnecessary. They were positive they could easily best the Na'vi by attacking them. I believe they didn't know that the Na'vi were expecting them either, because there was the bearded guy on the inside leaking info to them. They also had to do it in a way that they could cover up the fact that they were slaughtering innocent species, and bombing the crap out of them, or spraying them with weed killer wouldn't be inconspicuous, now would it? Also, weed killer? They're weeds now?

    That's not what a plot hole is. Maybe you should look up what a plot hole is.

    Well they would be funny, if you got over yourself, like I said. Spoony got a kick out of them, with the Colonel and what not.

  • meldar

    Calling Avatar anything more than a decent sci-fi flick is giving it far too much credit. I didn't hate the movie, but I felt like it didn't really do or say anything that hadn't already been said or done in dozens of movies before. The CGI was pretty, but it didn't really immerse me in the movie's world. On the contrary, I felt reminded that I was simply looking at a bunch of special effects in many scenes in the movie.

    Calling Avatar a load of shit if a bit much, though. It was a decent sci-fi flick, nothing more!

  • EatTheHumans

    Oh trust me I know what a plot hole is. But you're still saying “The Navi had to win coz they're the good guys” what is this the G.I. Joe Saturday morning cartoon all of a sudden? As it is I didn't find the movie exciting in the first place in fact I found it really boring for the most part. The sight of the planets animals coming to the Navis aid was actually one of the most ridiculous things about the movie in my eyes. If they had triumphed through Guerilla tactics or something I could understand it and would have bought into it. But the animals help…no…just no.

    As for the whole weed killer idea, do you actually remember what they were trying to do? Blow up their 'Sacred Tree' since it would supposedly destroy them. So why not just dump agent orange on the whole place and kill the tree that way? This company is intent on strip mining a whole damn planet I don't think PR is exactly high on their list of priorities.

    I understand that you obviously don't think people should question the plot since thats how Cameron wrote it. But I think we should, he's asking for our money to see this goddamn thing and If we don't like it we should say so. If you like the movie fine..personally i hated every wretched second of it.

  • claybird

    This reminds me of film brains review of inglorious bastards. love you spoony, but you deserve an Arnolds middle finger to the face

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      You deserve an Arnold’s middle finger up the ass.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      You deserve an Arnold’s middle finger up the ass.

  • Paper_Banjokami

    I'm not saying they had to win, because they're the good guys. I said they won because they were the good guys, and that's how Cameron made it. It's not a plot hole, it's how the plot happened. You're saying that because it didn't happen the way you wanted it to, that it's a plot hole, and you're wrong.

    The animals helped because the planet was fighting back. It made sense. The whole planet was literally connected. The planet was being attacked, so it defended itself. It makes sense, yes… just yes.

    PR was the whole reason they didn't kill the Na'vi to begin with, and were trying to cooperate with them. Why would they have a weed killer for a tree that they've never encountered before either? The only way to do it was to go in there and directly bomb the tree.

    You're not questioning the plot, you're making up stupid complaints about it, for the sake of complaining.

  • claybird

    you guys need to stop your dick measuring contest

  • EatTheHumans

    No I'm questioning the plot. The whole thing seemed convoluted and utterly disconnected from reality to me, entirely reliant on deus-ex machina.

    Look I get that you like the movie and don't want to see ti questioned. I really do but you can't just ask everybody to buy into something like this especially when the movie does such a poor job of giving us any reason to watch rather than vaguely pretty CGI.

  • maxnrosy

    why dont you tell the poor chap the plot hole that ticked your bomb.

  • http://twitter.com/Simmins5467 Chris Hurley

    This is definitely your most polarizing review. More so than Transformers because both sides are bringing logical arguments to the table.

  • assenm

    I agree more with Spoony's brother than Spoony here. I love Spoony's reviews but you must've had so much hype for this film, that it made it virtually unsatisfactory from the start. Take it for what it is, I don't care about the history or creation of the movie but just the movie itself. An unbiased approach is the only way to go when you watch an otherwise unconventional film. Suspension of disbelief, in this review Spoony you are lacking this entirely. Throw all other plots away and just take the movie for what it is. I don't even have to see the movie to make this claim, you have judged the film on your past experiences solely and have over-analyzed this picture. Whenever I watch a movie, I grow into the film and take on its qualities, I deny any predisposition I have… otherwise, why would I have seen the film willingly? Having an open-mind is important to any situation not just in watching films. It is unfortunate you could not get around your stubborn and unchangeable attitudes towards this film.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      Everyone has a limit to what they’re willing to suspend their disbelief about, you’re just being a giant asshole unwilling to accept that someone has a different opinion than you. How about actually watching the video and listening to the many great points he makes about why the movie is bad and realize that those points have NOTHING to do with anything like his expectations of the movie.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      Everyone has a limit to what they’re willing to suspend their disbelief about, you’re just being a giant asshole unwilling to accept that someone has a different opinion than you. How about actually watching the video and listening to the many great points he makes about why the movie is bad and realize that those points have NOTHING to do with anything like his expectations of the movie.

  • EatTheHumans

    Oh that's easy. The Unobtanium, why do they want it, why is it so valuable, what does it do?

    Those three little bits of information could have potentially saved the film for me by giving the Evil Humans some motivation and would have blurred the morality lines rather than having Navi= Good Humans = Bad.

  • misfit119

    Not really it isn't. People are asshats, it's simple as that. One dance around the internet will show you that simple fact. I found it quite easy to side with the Na'vi. It's their freaking planet! Forget anything else, forget preconcieved notions of “Dances with Wolves” and you've got a story about sentient creatures being attacked for their resources by an alien civilization. It just so happens that in this situation we're the aliens so we get slaughtered. This is how it plays out in plenty of movies and this is no different.

    In this regard the whole “white guilt” line doesn't figure in because honestly this is how the army was largely portrayed in media until recently. In most movies, especially during the '90's when this was written, the army was a bunch of psycopaths who wanted to kill, kill, kill. This isn't really all that different. However people want to see what they want to see in the movie so they walk away with things like this which is confusing beyond belief.

  • misfit119

    What the Unobtanium does isn't important, it's valuable and the humans want it. That's all anyone needs from the story perspective. And Deus ex machina is kinda what most movies do. People just manage to recover in time to kill the big bad, get their hands on the item needed to win or whatever. No matter how well it's covered up most movies, stories, comics and so forth rely on this to end their stories. In Avatar at least what happened to make the story work out hunkey dorey was telegraphed early on instead of just happening.

    But from reading your posts it's pretty apparent that you didn't like it so the whole movie is bottom tier trash, hands down. It can't possibly just be you, the movie is just poorly made. Ex: Disney Princesses. That's one of the dumbest things I've read on the internet today so congrats, you win that medal. Especially seeing as how they set up the whole “planet defending itself” thing pretty quickly in the movie if you were actually paying attention. You can decry that as nonsensical garbage just as quickly as I can say that about several things in most major sci-fi movies, The Dark Knight or especially 2012 so it doesn't mean much.

  • EatTheHumans

    I have to disagree with you. Shouting “It's not the movie it's just you” sort of invalidates anybodys arugment glad you found a movie you liked though.

    Merry Xmas.

  • misfit119

    Actually I didn't even like the movie. I just don't agree with some of the points people are making. Notice I don't try to claims it's not derivative and the like. However I'm not just saying “it's you, not the movie” that's what you're taking away from it instead of reading my posts. It's entirely possible for someone to walk away from a movie, not like it, and somehow think it's a vile spewing thing made of garbage. It was a bad movie but it's a million times better than most movies we've gotten recently.

  • EatTheHumans

    I disagree. I've actually quite enjoyed this years movies. You had everything from overblown tripe like Transformers 2 to some really well done sci-fi moves like Moon. But for me while Avatar isn't the worst movie of the year (that gem of an award goes to New Moon,) it's the worst Sci-Fi released this year in my eyes.

    • Anonymous

      You are on crack mate.

  • morritan

    This movie depends on the audience's ability to empathise with the Na'vi. It's not that hard; they never asked for humans to come along but when we did they learned our language, they befriended the humans such as Grace etc. If you can't, then you would probably be one of the people who wouldn't killing the aliens for their resources, proving that maybe some people in this world need to change.

    I personally wanted to see all those dick heads get what was coming to them. Don't even say they were all white, there was many races among the mercs, even a group of rastafarians. Humans are often dicks, maybe we do need to change.

  • PearlHarborSucks

    I like how any who criticizes this movie is instantly met with: “I like this movie, and since your opinion is different than mine, you are obviously wrong.” After seeing this movie twice I can say that the best way to describe this movie is “pretty to look at, boring to listen to.”

    Gene Siskel once said that there are times when differences of opinion stray off into errors of fact. For example: if you say Plan 9 from Outerspace is a better movie than Aliens, well not only would that be an odd opinion, but it would be factually wrong.

    Looking at Avatar there are several things that are just facts:

    1) There are tons of bright, shiny special effects.
    2) The story is very simple, there is no confusion of who is good or who is bad.
    3) The movie is long
    4) The story has been done in many different forms before.

    What this means is that if you like this movie you:
    a) Don't mind hearing the same story over again (maybe you were too young to have heard it before)
    b) Like computer-generated special effects
    c) Enjoy long movies, even when they do not have very complicated plots.

    Unlike a movie like Plan 9 from Outerspace, or Transformers 2, you cannot make the argument that this movie is factually bad. It does not have major continuity issues, or terrible borderline racist portrayals or anything like that.

    But for someone who dislikes CGI, and who really enjoys a plot that twists and turns with complex characters, this movie falls short.

    P.S. Am I the only one who noticed that the movie totally ripped off Halo vehicles? They travel across space to the planet on what looks like a Covenant drop ship, then they fly Hornets all around, and they also have a Pelican.

    • Anonymous

      3) The movie is long

      It is almost half as long as Dances With Wolves, a movie that it supposedly is a ripp-off of.

    • Anonymous

      3) The movie is long

      It is almost half as long as Dances With Wolves, a movie that it supposedly is a ripp-off of.

    • Anonymous

      3) The movie is long

      It is almost half as long as Dances With Wolves, a movie that it supposedly is a ripp-off of.

  • Ingara

    I thought this movie was pretty good… And like PearlHarborSucks said: “What this means is that if you like this movie you: Don't mind hearing the same story over again (maybe you were too young to have heard it before)”, I actually am kinda young and I haven't heard this type of story never before (I haven't seen Dances with Wolves nor any other that would follow this kind of plot) so my opinion is: Good movie, great effects, my first movie ever that I have seen in 3D so awesome in that way also.

  • lucan946

    You know what Mr. Cameron, apply this technology to Aliens, the best movie you ever directed/ever will direct and I will love you.

  • lucan946

    If Mr. Cameron applies this new technology to Aliens, I would cry tears of joy.

  • douglasjaglowski

    I agree more with what your brother says at the beginning, mainly because I hadn't heard anything beyond the trailer and was generally entertained. When thinking about it afterward, it would strike me as odd, but I would be willing to see it again, because the story line is, at least, somewhat engaging. Essentially, if you are looking to relax and stop thinking, it is a good movie. (perfect for recovering from finals)

  • memph

    I've enjoyed watchin the two brothers arguing about what may be considered good or bad. I really hope that spoony is going to include miles more into his reviews.

    keep up the good work….
    Adios

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brian-Jesse/27708921 Brian Jesse

    Spoons, I gotta say, I really think your personal bias against CG murdered any chance of you taking any enjoyment of this film. No one can say the story mattered. it's been done, yeah, whatever. Oh, and the Plot is based on the national story of Brazil…. so were all the other ones, but yeah.
    but if we have to discount the plot, cause the plot's been done over and over… what IS the movie? if the plot is just there to give the rest of the movie an excuse to exist, what is the point?
    it's kinda like saying “god damnit, this romance has too much romance in it!”
    I donno, this is a CG movie… if you *hate* CG… how can you review it with any level of credibility?
    the visuals were very good, and it was honestly difficult for me to distinguish between standard cinematography and CG.
    Maybe thats just me…

    All in all, I probably just disagree (and If I agreed, I wouldn't be complaining ;P), so I guess quit having a different opinion than me ;)

    Waiting for the next one :D

  • Jonny78

    Avatar was just Fergully with explosions and monsters. 'Nuff said.

  • Anonymous

    The story isn’t great but I did not have a problem with it. I did not get annoyed at the film being preachy because it wasn’t directly preachy and I like films telling morals as long as it’s said in the least corny way. I even expected Jake being a pacifist and not kill any marines during the final fight. I also like the idea of their hair being somewhat a USB connection to anything in Pandora. It had a magical element to it and I rolled with it as the movie is a fantasy of sorts. Although I did have a problem with the floating mountains, there’s no explanation given or even I can think of that can make that happen. I like the movie. I saw it in 3d and on visual entertainment alone I am sold.

  • barry_nbg

    I was one of the few people that never heard anything about Avatar till it hit the big screen. My brother told me he would go see it and showed me the trailer, and the first thing I told him was that I didn't like the blue aliens at all. I went and watched it in 3D anyway with some friends.

    ….. and I thought Avatar was pretty entertaining, and something I felt very much was the protagonist's desire to be someone else. They could probably have done a better job at showing this, but when you think of it he's a pretty poor guy: Some unimportant war veteran without legs who just gets into the project because his brother died.

    There's this one scene where the protagonist is in his avatar and has a major breakthrough at being a navii (sry can't really remember what exactly happened there) and then logs off, and you see him rolling through HQ in his wheelchair, his legs like a pair of brittle twigs. You just saw how he loved being able to walk again and fly around on his bungee. Made me sad… if the movie would have put more emphasis on stuff like this, the emotional aspects of the movie (besides the we're all children of Gaia stuff which was not that interesting to me) on an individual basis, it would have been much, much more appealing.

    Avatar was a bit shallow in terms of storytelling, had very very cool cg effects and a great battle scene, very nice character and world design… I don't know if Spoony and Miles saw the movie in 3D. If not, you should go see it, I thought it was pretty impressing. Definitely cooler than 2D.

    But nevertheless I think the main problem isn't with the story. It's just how the script is skimming over the individuals featured in the film and never bothers to really enter a persons mind and show what moves them. That way, you get stereotypes…. and those get boring after a while.

    Avatar could have been a great movie. But because of its shallow script it remains and entertaining, shallow cg action flick. Fun to watch, and worth seeing, but nothing exceptional.

    Btw, I'm german and haven spoken in english in ages, so if some words or grammar are off, please escuse me. ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/oscar.g83 Oscar G Garcia

    Well, of course Spoony, if you criticize the movie thinking “Dance with Wolves” obviously you'll get the wrong idea.

    They are different movies man. Yeah, I know the premise is the same, but comparing Avatar and Dance with Wolves or The Last Samurai is like comparing Heath Ledger's Joker to Jack Nicholson's Joker. They are esentially the same character, but in a completely different level and tone.
    I mean, no one says that you're a crap critic because we compare you to Angry Joe or AVGN or NC… You are what you are: Reviewers of games and movies. But each of you is unique in a way.

    Don't make comparisons, Noah. That is just stupid.

    I thought this movie was really, really good. Action scenes, special effects, romantic moments… Fuckin' giant robots! Michelle Rodriguez!! It had everything! and you say it's crap? WTF man?

  • nospr

    I always agree with spoony EXPECT this time. That movie was epic. Best movie of the decade. I loved this movie from the beginning.

  • jahith

    I really like what you said, and I second your point about comparisons

  • Adnarim

    Well, as I don't share Spoony's contempt for CGI work, I felt that the visuals at least partly redeemed this film– visually the film is quite breathtaking. Other than that, yes, it is a bit disappointing. I just wish they'd taken, oh, ten per cent of the time they spent on special effects to work on the story and script. I'd have been happy with a few minor plot twists and just a *bit* of light and shade in the characterisation.

    Seems how you react to the heavy-handed “messages” depends on your politics, though– my ultra-ultra left friend thought the script was being awesomely clever and hard-hitting with that “fight terror with terror” line.

  • kazehebi

    I understand your feelings towards Avatar, but saying that 2012 is better than Avatar is like saying that Jumper is better than Avatar lol. 2012 was terrible, awful, awful movie. It's like Jumper: tries to be more than what it is and not accepting that it's just a typical hollywood movie. Of course, Avatar is, in a way, like this, but it has a normal story and it's a fun adventure. It's not epic, not by a long shot, but it's a fun movie. Though, the action scene is way too long and the character development should have had way more depth. Nonetheless, an entertaining movie.

  • http://twitter.com/Simmins5467 Chris Hurley

    The Movie was very preachy and there were points where it was unbearable, but because of the nature of the scene it was excusable (IE – Village crying about the Tree yea hard to sit through because of the preach level, but understandable because of the trees significance to the Navi). It was also very predictable, I knew the ending long before Signory weavers death, when the ending was pretty much a dead give away.

    One thing I found funny though was when Jake was giving his big war speech I was thinking of two quotes I kept replaying in my mind. “They can Take our Land, but they will never take OUR FREEDOM!” and “This IS. . . PANDORA!” Ironically they would have both fit into the movie perfectly and would have made the bad dialog during it better.

    Having said this I watched the movie twice to try and make up my mind about it. I Enjoyed myself both times, the second time the preachy nature definetly got to me mnore than the first. Although this movie serves an important lesson to me, which is from now on I cant watch/read reviews of movies before hand, usually I dont but this time I went in with really low expectations and I wasnt watching it as it was intended so I think my expirence was sullied in a way because I was filled with doubt/hype. I think back to the Dark Knight, I went in there totally unaware of reviews or even hype (I had moved and hadent payed attention to trailers) so when I went in I was blown away, and enjoied it so much because it was like watching Star wars for the first time you dont know what to expect, and it was one of the greatest expirences I have ever expirenced in a movie theater (and those are rare now a days.)

    I cant say whether I would have been so blown away by Avatar if I had ignored the hype, but I would have had more enjoyment from it. As a word of warning as I am sure most people already do, DON'T READ REVIEWS BEFORE YOU SEE A MOVIE. I understand if your on the fence and need a reassuring voice, that's why I saw spoonys review before I saw it, but ultimately it gave me too many bias/mixed expectations. Go in with a clear mind, and watch the review after, and see what you agree with. Sure it's common sense but this movie is a prime example of thinking for yourself.

  • flow_hoe

    “We are fighting Terror with Terror” – “But they haven't done anything”…

    How ironic: Spoony unintentionally mentions the pretty obvious fact, what is so bloody stupid about the supposed “Fight against Terrorism”, but sadly he still doesn't get it and still sticks to US propaganda.
    You claim your brother switched of logic and reason, but in reality it is the contrary: In your blind rage you lack any of these virtues, which you brother indeed shows!

    Spoony, think about it and you will see that actually this movie makes very much sense.

    • Anonymous

      I think you misunderstand him. He understands ‘Terrorism’ is US propaganda.

      The problem is that this symbolism – the blatant referencing to modern times – is insulting. It’s as though he’s having this explained to him, as if it weren’t obvious.

      In reality, this movie is its own propaganda, just for the other side. That’s the problem with Avatar, it isn’t grey, it’s too muddied by bias. Movies and media should strive to portray both sides of an issue, not pander to one point of an issue and put down the other.

      Environmentalism is not as simple as choosing life and goodness over death and pollution, actions create results which are often unpredictable and shape futures erratically. This is why life is not simple – and to lecture someone to act in a certain manner under some simplistic logic is typical to Hollywood bias. That’s what’s he’s raging against – typical, simplified, Hollywood symbolism and atrocious, myopic writing.

    • Anonymous

      No, that’s not the point. As ridiculous as the war on terror may or may not be, there was at least a basis for using the word terror. 9/11, the attacks in Spain and London. The Navi hadn’t done ANYTHING at all. And even if you wanna go all truther on us, the military hadn’t even staged some unprovoked attack and blamed it on the Navi. Spoony is totally right, the line was transparent and stupid.

    • Anonymous

      No, that’s not the point. As ridiculous as the war on terror may or may not be, there was at least a basis for using the word terror. 9/11, the attacks in Spain and London. The Navi hadn’t done ANYTHING at all. And even if you wanna go all truther on us, the military hadn’t even staged some unprovoked attack and blamed it on the Navi. Spoony is totally right, the line was transparent and stupid.

    • Anonymous

      No, that’s not the point. As ridiculous as the war on terror may or may not be, there was at least a basis for using the word terror. 9/11, the attacks in Spain and London. The Navi hadn’t done ANYTHING at all. And even if you wanna go all truther on us, the military hadn’t even staged some unprovoked attack and blamed it on the Navi. Spoony is totally right, the line was transparent and stupid.

    • Anonymous

      No, that’s not the point. As ridiculous as the war on terror may or may not be, there was at least a basis for using the word terror. 9/11, the attacks in Spain and London. The Navi hadn’t done ANYTHING at all. And even if you wanna go all truther on us, the military hadn’t even staged some unprovoked attack and blamed it on the Navi. Spoony is totally right, the line was transparent and stupid.

  • RPGaholic

    The reason some people might have gotten pissed off at Avatar, they were expecting this… http://www.thelastairbendermovie.com/

    James Cameron blissfully ignoring the fact that another movie, based on a Nickelodeon show called Avatar: The Last Airbender is headed to theaters relatively shortly. When I saw the trailer for Cameron's movie, I thought it had something to do with the show since I'd already seen the other trailer.

    Just this nerd's 2 cents.

  • Bumbo

    Miles? SWEET!.

    Can't watch this yet thou, gotta see Avatar first :D

    Glad to see the M and N take on another hypegasm movie.

  • RPGaholic

    Oscar, can I call you Oscar? Did you bother paying attention to who was comparing Avatar to Dances With Wolves? 'Twas not the Spoony One, but his brother Miles. And why can't he compare? Surely one can compare mincemeat pie and apple pie. They are both pies, just different flavors. How about moose turd pie and apple pie? Those are also different flavors, but one is horribly done, the other not. Spoony was actually comparing Avatar to Pandorum more than Dances With Wolves, if you bothered to pay attention. A little fact checking would've made your rant relevant. As of now, you are nothing but an ignoramus to me, and have earned no respect. Way to go.

  • hichcoot

    Oh my god, is this saying that he feels ´´insulted“ by the movie??? He said the same thing in District 9!! I like his videos and everything but this is a terrible critic! The only thing that he does is nitpicking and thats it!

  • hichcoot

    Oh my god, is this saying that he feels ´´insulted“ by the movie??? He said the same thing in District 9!! I like his videos and everything but this is a terrible critic! The only thing that he does is nitpicking and thats it!

  • hichcoot

    Because i think that this movie was more about showing us this fantastic world! if you are going to a science fiction movie just to see if everything makes sence and if it doesnt the movie sucks, of course you are not gonna enjoy it!

    Listen to the review on Spill or the review that Roger Ebert gave, they are not talking about the flying islands at all…

  • robotpanda

    I loved the part where the military commander is making insults about scientists as he climbs into a giant robot machine. Not to mention his earlier tough guy speech that ends with “eat your eyes like juu juu bees.” WTF?

  • Speldosa

    I totaly agree with the guy on the left. This movie was rubish, all the way through.

  • shameonpretzel

    Thank you, Siskel & Ebert.

    The movie was good.

    But Spoony was DEAD-ON with the Ferngully comparisons.

  • NaclynE

    In 2005 James Cameron was to direct a 3D film BATTLE ANGEL ALITA which is based on the popular manga/anime.
    In 2009 James Cameron released a movie called AVATAR which also has a 3D version of it as well.

    Now I have been very confused, kind of curious, but am glad he did that over BAA cuz of the fact that anime to live action movies have been comming out BAAAAAAAAAD. But if he did AVATAR in place of BAA, when is BAA comming out? Is he still helming it?
    I still have yet to see Avatar even though it's a been there/done that movie (FERNGULLY THE LAST RAINFOREST anyone?) but it seems like a appealing movie and the casting from the way it looked a couple years ago seemed very promiseing.

  • Nowah

    Well, you're entitled to your own opinion, Spoony. Good review.

    I myself, don't agree, but that's just me. I loved this movie.

  • Nowah

    I recommend you go in without havig any prejudice. I did the same, and you just won't enjoy the movie if you go in with a “This, this and this is probably gonna be bad. Yeah, I'm sure of it.” Then you'd start nitpicking about little things and relate them to the prejudice thoughts you had. “Oh yeah, see? I knew it.”

    Just go in, enjoy the movie and review it afterwards. Otherwise you might as well throw away the 10 bucks you paid to see it.

  • MartianMan

    I gotta say though, I'm not really seeing the white guilt here. I thought it was more of a colonization/imperialism-guilt. Australia, America, Africa, etc.

  • iBrad

    I can side with anybody on this movie. It was just a movie that everybody will forget after a while. There was nothing in it that was simply AMAZING. I know this will be met with “LOOK AT THE SPECIAL EFFECTS DUMB ASS!” but really I could care less. Special effects a movie does not make. You need a well delivered plot and script. Did this movie deliver? I honestly can't tell. Visually yes, plot wise, it was O.K. Nothing ground breaking, just decent overall. People are saying that it is one of the best movies of the decade, and I can simply shake my head and walk away. I feel the hype factor will ware off soon and then this will be but a shadow on James Cameron's repertoire of movies….

  • http://www.stablewars.com Imma Psychonaut

    It's all effects, it has nothing else going for it

  • KevinLionheart

    Thank you, Spoony. Now I know I'm not the only one who had problems with this movie. I wrote up an analysis as to why I think we had problems with this movie, it can be found here:

    http://unrelatedcontemplations.blogspot.com/200

    Hate to 'advertise', but rather than type out all of those comments I made there I think it's better to just link it if anyone wanted to read a very long essay as to why I think this movie shoves white guilt down our throats and tells us that Americans are evil and everyone we've oppressed is universally good.

  • thoroughlyspooned

    I should start off by saying thanks, Spoony for all of the years of free entertainment.
    Okay, so dropping the hammer so hard on Avatar has had a pretty polarizing effect on your fan base judging from this forum. I really think that you ran the risk of alienating yourself from a lot of your fans, many of whom are probably sci-fi junkies (if I'm not presuming too much). While I agree with you when you say that CGI shouldn't sell tickets, I do not believe that the narrative is the only importance here.
    Someone who says “storyline is what matters” while simultaneously posting WWE laden videos runs the risk of coming across as a little bit of a hypocrite. All I'm saying is that you DO value a little spectacle here and there. You critique movies, games, etc.; you find things to dislike about them. That's your shtick. I get it.
    What Avatar DID do well with its visual smorgasbord was make many of the status quos of sci-fi (e.g., the experience of flying, an alien race, and fantasy environments) seem novel again. I agree with you, if Avatar was made 15 years ago without the George Lucas-esque “they're not SPECIAL effects if they're in every scene”, the story would have been a heck-of-a-lot less compelling. But should we condemn it to Battlefield Earth or Aragon-level movie badness? No.
    I'm sorry that you were not able to experience this in 3-D. Hope your foot feels better. :D

  • Darkfiber

    My instant impression after seeing it was that it is a modern Ferngully. I've been hoping someone would make a video showing the direct comparisons. The guy being saved by the girl. The guy using fire during his first encounter with her. The girl showing him the forest. The girl being the daughter of the mother-of-the-forest figure. The “Tree of Life.” and so on.. bulldozers.. and so forth. There are moments where the dialog is the same. There are even moments where the scene and even camera angle are exactly the same. Such as when they're swimming under the water side by side and the camera is directly above.

    Would make a funny video.

    That all being said, I think the movie was still very enjoyable. Aside from the um.. “GET SOME!”

  • absintheisablessing

    Really didnt like the movie. Plot heavily derivative and the allegory was hamfisted. Dont care for CG without a solid plot because it appeals to the same reflex that u felt when a parent jingled their keys above u as a child, it's mindless and i feel like im being talked down to.

  • Concurssi

    I dunno guys, I really loved this one. I didn't see any of this preachy stuff and the word “america” didn't pop into my head even once. Maybe you were expecting it when you went into the movie? I dunno, but I have to say that this is the best movie I've seen whole year. And It's gonna take me a while to forget this one. And I watched your review before I even went in there, I saw the flying mountains, I saw their USB-hair and they didn't bother me at all. I liked the badass marine too, quandritch I think his name was. Like your reviews, but here I seriously disagree with you man.

  • Anonymous

    I’m with Mile’s on this one, and I do think that this movie does influence the way digital acting, compositing, CG effects, lighting, and animation are dealt with. The overall visual quality of this movies was truly amazing, most specifically the compositing.

    Even though the acting was ridiculous, the story was derivative, the world as a whole was in over abundance, the simple fact remains that the film was extremely marvelous to look at, from the explosions to animals to the facial expressions. Sometimes that is enough to make the film fun to watch.

    Like Miles I do agree that the overall movie can only be considered “good” since it’s weaknesses were so apparent in other areas. The important factor however was the films weaknesses it’s story and acting didn’t bother my overall ability to enjoy the spectacle of Avatar.

    One last mention, and probably the main reason why Avatar is visually astounding is the camera composition. It’s solid camera work from beginning to end, and at no point in the film was I ever confused, lost, or wondering what I was looking at. There were tons of areas in that film that lesser directors and editors would have mucked up, but this film read so well because of solid camera work.

  • Anonymous

    I’m with Mile’s on this one, and I do think that this movie does influence the way digital acting, compositing, CG effects, lighting, and animation are dealt with. The overall visual quality of this movies was truly amazing, most specifically the compositing.

    Even though the acting was ridiculous, the story was derivative, the world as a whole was in over abundance, the simple fact remains that the film was extremely marvelous to look at, from the explosions to animals to the facial expressions. Sometimes that is enough to make the film fun to watch.

    Like Miles I do agree that the overall movie can only be considered “good” since it’s weaknesses were so apparent in other areas. The important factor however was the films weaknesses it’s story and acting didn’t bother my overall ability to enjoy the spectacle of Avatar.

    One last mention, and probably the main reason why Avatar is visually astounding is the camera composition. It’s solid camera work from beginning to end, and at no point in the film was I ever confused, lost, or wondering what I was looking at. There were tons of areas in that film that lesser directors and editors would have mucked up, but this film read so well because of solid camera work.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1184631189 facebook-1184631189

    Hey Spoony, Mr_Cyberpunk here, I think you're totally right about the Fern Gully reference lol. Have you heard of a game called Albion? its almost IDENTICAL to Avatar in every way, just minus the whole turning into one of them.. but the entire story is identical, the style is almost identical. Its a great classic RPG. I'd suggest you review it in the future.

    Thanks.

    -Mr_Cyberpunk

  • minimoose

    Agree with your brother the most, but of course, you always have some very good points. What bugged me the most was the stupid stupid STUPID indian tribal sounds and music. I think I would have been less irritated if they had just made everything a bit more subtle and..removed the stupid tribal sound effects. But no, it could never have been a good movie with this plot.
    Visually yes, fun…but no 3D didn't help anything. It's just a minor + to an ok movie.

    Spoony…Spooneeyh…Ssookieeeh,,,damn…people should start pronouncing Spooney like Sookie in True Blood. For some reason me and my gf find very funny. “oh really?!”
    ..yes..mm..!

  • loopback_dizzy

    I saw this movie yesterday in 3D. Went in expecting great visuals and a mediocre story and wasn't disappointed. I had no problem in suspending my beliefs because I'm almost always able to fully focus on and get immersed in movies. It was a very black and white Disney-style story but I enjoyed myself.

    Perhaps because I'm not American, I did not see the preachiness as white guilt (which is a totally new term for me anyway), but more concerning the state of humanity as a whole. I dunno, maybe it's my misanthropy talking, but I can perfectly see our species sucking a planet or two dry. Sure, the hostility and greed while at it were exaggerated a lot in the movie but I felt a connection to that theme.

    The slow parts felt close to the style of nature documentaries to me and while they dragged on a bit too much, the CG flora and fauna were very appealing to the eyes. The only thing that annoyed me were the horse-creatures because they didn't fit in with the jungle surroundings. That the plains tribe has them, I can go with, but I fail to see their use in the thick underbrush. Hah, they made the final battle very LotR-ish to me :P

    Anyway, it's always nice to hear other people's opinions. I believe I'm a bit more easily entertained than others when I'm not prejudiced against a movie, so it's a good thing Spoony is the critic and people like me are not :D More interesting that way.

  • maxwelldl

    http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJE

    This is the original Avatar script, the one that James Cameron made after he finished Titanic.

    Obviously, he had to have cut out a whole lot of stuff to make Avatar less than 3 hours, let alone less than 5, which would be required to include all the marvelous things that he had imagined.

    Avatar is obviously lacking in some parts, but completely blows the roof off in others.

    Cameron has hinted onto sequels, which may include some of this “originality” crap everyone demands these days, and may include some of the bits and pieces that he left out in Avatar.

    All in all, great movie. Seen it 3 times and still cried.

  • RPGaholic

    Heck, it's a few songs away from being Pocahantas in Space. Ferngully, Pocahantas, Dances With Wolves… What happened to the cutting edge James Cameron who gave us Abyss, The Terminator, Aliens… did Titanic really mess him up that bad mentally? Heck, he's been linked to the remakes of Fantastic Voyage, Forbidden Planet, Heavy Metal, and he takes his time to give us this?

  • cloudkitt

    I wholeheartedly agree with you here Spoony. Especially on the preachy stuff, amen.

  • http://twitter.com/zelzega Allison Warnock

    I saw Avatar in 3D and quite frankly the 3D was annoying. If you didn't hold your head just right, it blurred. 3D was not worth it. The story was meh, but it was definitely a pretty movie.

  • Bertramn

    I have seen Avatar last week, so I was pretty late with that, I saw it in 3D and I have to say it was one of the greatest movie-going-experience I have had so far.
    The visuals are stunning and this is a point where very much love was put in, but I have to quote the Cinema Snob on this one “….I do not like CG that anyone does, I like CG that people like James Cameron do…”.
    This movie doesnt just put some FFVII-Advent Children-ish BG there and sell it as perfect, on the contrary, the love to every single detail is stunning, I really enjoyed the design of the N'avi, the Ideas of the Plants and animls ini the Forest and also the whole technical stuff in the base.

    This was the first time I had seen a movie in 3D and I was simply stunned, all the more so because I knew your arguments against it and had pretty much established these as ma own (lazy me).
    It guess I will go 3D more often, but only CG-movies.

    About the plot I have to say I was not bothered by the fact that it is not original at all.
    I was Ferngully and Pocahontas about 10 years ago so I do not remember them as much and Dances-With-Wolves
    was also a long time ago.
    By the time the movie had gone for 10 minutes I had totally forgotten about the stolen plot.

    Yes, Avatar took the story off of these movies, but in my opinion Avatar did not suck.
    The only good one of these three is Dances-With-Wolves, but Avatar is just better in every single aspect I can think of.

    First of all, Avatar is about 100 minutes shorter than dances with wolves, and I think it takes far better use of the time.
    Where Dances-With-Wolves was just Kevin Costner being alone for about 2 hours, in Avatar there is a plot and there are characters that develop in every single scene.

    The whole thing about there only being two sides, black and white, the pure and the evil… you are right, but I see nothing wrong in that.
    In Dances-With-Wolves there was the same kind of distinction where the Indians are the good and the Soldiers are the evil ones, in Aliens there are the poor guys who built their little base on that planet and the evil Imperialistic Scientists from Weyland-Yutani, same goes for any Alien-movie btw.
    What I am trying to say is that it is fairly normal for the distinction between good and evil in a movie to be so extremely obvious, I see nothing wrong with that whatsoever.
    That small corporate-guy (the golfer) was no longer an asshole when he saw what he had done btw.

    About it being preachy I…..
    It is interesting how different your opinion can be towards preachiness Spoony,
    I just happened to stumble over an older review of yours about the comic “Black Summer”,
    wich obviously criticised the Bush-administration and the System which allows such a person to be in control.
    You liked that one.

    I did not notice the preachiness, most of all because I do not like to watch and analyze a movie at the same time, I do that afterwards.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jacob-Palsgaard/1302800961 Jacob Palsgaard

      “did not notice the preachiness, most of all because I do not like to watch and analyze a movie at the same time”
      In no fucking way did you have to analyse it to notice the preachiness, it was right in your face the whoooooooooole goddamn time. To “not notice” it you’d either have to be blind as a bat or mentally handicapped.

  • Caelan

    Exactly how I felt. Now when people ask me what I thought of the movie I can point to your Vlog. Thanks!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tom-Pannone/100000671220606 Tom Pannone

    You want an example of breaking susspension of disbelief?
    What about the planet, in about a 10,000 mile orbit from Pandora's stratosphere, in a jupiter to earth ratio. Chances are, the big planet would eclipse pandora, and it would die.
    And also apparently it's always 60 degrees, plantlife everywhere, the entire planet is a rainforest with no rain, and I know this, because if it did rain, they wouldn't sleep outside in their little treehouse, because there's a little thing called hypertension.

    Also every single indigenous tribe was mixed with the na'vi. You had loin cloths, spears, everyone sitting in a circle singing their version of Kumbayah, having them stress the whole “Ancestors” thing, they'd have hunters & gatherers, like it was the stone ages, one guy had a bone through his nose, and my absolute favorite, sometimes durring battle, they'd yell “ALALALALALALALAH!”

  • http://twitter.com/SolarisKnight Michael Antignano

    Another grand slam review from the Spoony One

  • Bumbo

    I agree completley with spoonys problems save for the CGI. I guess being a gamer I can accept this 3d dominance. Hell in 99% of all games I own they use nothing but 3D so hey, I can still think its cool to look at. That being said.

    But the rest of Spoony's comments: spot on.

    It was Ok. Nothing more.

    This was: Pocahontas meets Dances with wolves: IN SPAAACE!

    Oh, and its one thing to talk about how its similar and how the movie is stealing. For instance the name “Unobtanium” is taken straight from The Core. Nitpicking but still. call it whatever but don't re-use original names. I mean come on! You even went through the trouble to make a slightly credible language and you STILL stole that name? Why? Cheap. Same can be said about the entire plotline. But it was nice to look at. Nothing more.

  • http://twitter.com/cowtipping ben

    I thought that the subplot of his disability was fascinating and very, very well executed; his physical and mental unravelling as he delves further into this fantasy world is tastefully and believably shot and portrayed. Honestly, I would have loved to see that fleshed out some more. A lot of the stuff on Pandora I could give or take, but the scenes Sam Worthington actually got to act in were, I thought, some of the high points of this movie. His v-logs show a man in a position that many of us, I suspect, have shared, from time to time: a man out of his time, an anachronism, an anomaly.
    There is a shot I remember: Sully pulling himself from the avatar deck, his legs stretching out before him; he gives them a blank, unfathomable look and pulls them onto his wheelchair with routine weariness; he wheels himself down an empty hallway, his legs angled awkwardly, bare and emaciated. He's in his boxers and a t-shirt, with a full beard, and there is no perceptible emotion upon his face. Wheeling himself over to the mirror, he looks at himself as if seeing a stranger for the first time and prepares to shave for the first time in three months.

  • http://twitter.com/cowtipping ben

    I thought that the subplot of his disability was fascinating and very, very well executed; his physical and mental unravelling as he delves further into this fantasy world is tastefully and believably shot and portrayed. Honestly, I would have loved to see that fleshed out some more… A lot of the stuff on Pandora I could give or take, honestly.

  • Adnarim

    I've already commented on this, but I just wanted to add something:

    Some people have suggested that it's only Americans who object to the film's preachiness. Not so– I'm not American, and I wasn't keen on that aspect either. I thought the “message” about colonialism and environmentalism (not to mention “humans suck”) was delivered in such a way that it made the film *more* safe and bland. After all, so much “improving” kiddie fiction has covered the same themes with about the same depth.

    Also, it seems everyone who criticises this movie gets told, “Yes, but you have to watch it in 3-D to judge it”. The point is, you *shouldn't* have to.

    Not that I think “Avatar” is a terrible film, at all, just that– leaving aside the special effects– it's pretty unremarkable. Worth seeing once, but maybe not twice.

  • corezero

    After Seeing Reviews, your reviews, and your opinion on most movies, I had a felling you weren't going to like this movie that much.

    I was right apparently.

  • Jaebird88

    Dances with Ferngully. 'Nuff said.

  • yellow13

    saw it in 3d. liked it a lot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Maciej-Chrominski/1431213951 Maciej Chromiński

    Cameron + Sigourney Weaver + Space marines = good movie,
    and yeah, it was

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Henry-Sloan/1130104114 Henry Sloan

    i saw it in 3-D, come to think of it, id rather see termanator…

  • VenomSpawn

    There was some critic who said something along the lines of, “avatar has been called breathtaking and beautiful, well I have one more 'b' for them: boring.” That was pretty much how I felt, it had some entertaining moments but there were points where I was bored, and my mind wandered, because it was just too long. 3D didn't add much to it, and it got to a point where it didn't even matter. Me and my friend both recognized Kocoum, from Pocahontas, being in there, and the connection to nature seeming like something out of Ghost in the shell. It's like Cameron had this original rip-off idea, and added onto it over the years from various popular things. On top of it all, not only did he have a hissy fit over “The Last Airbender” not being called Avatar, but he STOLE THEIR FONT, that's the real kick in the balls. I didn't know anything about avatar for awhile, so when James Cameron was talking about the game at E3, with no footage, I thought they meant the movie game for what is now “The Last Airbender,” and I wouldn't be surprised if his intention actually was to fool people like me (Although that seems unlikely, however the Avatar font background was all I had to go on).

  • Jorda75

    When this movie was finally announced and I heard the story I actually called it “Fern Gully 3D”, Avatar is so damn derivative but like Spoony says even despite that the story was so boring, poorly paced and with such bad dialogue I don't recall a single line from the film, once you get over the visuals this was a terrible, terrible movie. This movie is nothing more than a special effects flash in the pan, bright and colorful but with no lasting power. We still look back at the original Star Wars trilogy as one of the high points of science fiction because of the amazing story, the only thing Avatar will be remembered as is an over hyped, overly long technical display.

  • penisenvy

    Is the headboard of your bed a steering wheel? O.o

  • thewhitetornado

    To me this whole movie was just really dull. They seemed to pride themselves in all this CGI yet they didn't seem to really do much with it. There was no real point to the wild creatures until the very end, they were just shown in nature. Even if they were actual things and not CGI I'd be bored with them.

    Nothing seems quite so magnificent when it's computer generated. The entire time the focus was just on the environment all I could think was “Ok, impressive CGI skills, but it's not real”. I could never really share in the wonderment that was meant to be had by the characters just because I knew that it was fake.

    As for the dullness, most of it just came from the simple plot and how generic everything seemed. Yes, things were taken from a ton of other movies (the sounds of every animal were stolen from Jurassic Park), but I figure if you can make it interesting and unique in some way it's redeemable, and this wasn't. The plot was the classic “Good vs. Evil, the protagonist sees the error of his ways, he tries to redeem himself”, there were no real traits of its own. It's basically taking a narrow and shallow plot and making it pretty.

    As for the problems some people have with the characters, they just aren't believable. With the Colonel (or whatever rank he was), he had that hint of insanity, which some people like because it gives him his own flair, but some people want characters that seem realistic and believable. It's just a matter of preference. There were also some horribly blatant archetypes and stereotypes that shined through (the classic environmentalist and the rednecks waiting to shoot some injuns) which, to me at least, killed the idea of complex character traits.

    My opinion in short: shallow movie with some glitter thrown on.

  • thewhitetornado

    To me this whole movie was just really dull. They seemed to pride themselves in all this CGI yet they didn't seem to really do much with it. There was no real point to the wild creatures until the very end, they were just shown in nature. Even if they were actual things and not CGI I'd be bored with them.

    Nothing seems quite so magnificent when it's computer generated. The entire time the focus was just on the environment all I could think was “Ok, impressive CGI skills, but it's not real”. I could never really share in the wonderment that was meant to be had by the characters just because I knew that it was fake.

    As for the dullness, most of it just came from the simple plot and how generic everything seemed. Yes, things were taken from a ton of other movies (the sounds of every animal were stolen from Jurassic Park), but I figure if you can make it interesting and unique in some way it's redeemable, and this wasn't. The plot was the classic “Good vs. Evil, the protagonist sees the error of his ways, he tries to redeem himself”, there were no real traits of its own. It's basically taking a narrow and shallow plot and making it pretty.

    As for the problems some people have with the characters, they just aren't believable. With the Colonel (or whatever rank he was), he had that hint of insanity, which some people like because it gives him his own flair, but some people want characters that seem realistic and believable. It's just a matter of preference. There were also some horribly blatant archetypes and stereotypes that shined through (the classic environmentalist and the rednecks waiting to shoot some injuns) which, to me at least, killed the idea of complex character traits.

    My opinion in short: shallow movie with some glitter thrown on.

  • thewhitetornado

    To me this whole movie was just really dull. They seemed to pride themselves in all this CGI yet they didn't seem to really do much with it. There was no real point to the wild creatures until the very end, they were just shown in nature. Even if they were actual things and not CGI I'd be bored with them.

    Nothing seems quite so magnificent when it's computer generated. The entire time the focus was just on the environment all I could think was “Ok, impressive CGI skills, but it's not real”. I could never really share in the wonderment that was meant to be had by the characters just because I knew that it was fake.

    As for the dullness, most of it just came from the simple plot and how generic everything seemed. Yes, things were taken from a ton of other movies (the sounds of every animal were stolen from Jurassic Park), but I figure if you can make it interesting and unique in some way it's redeemable, and this wasn't. The plot was the classic “Good vs. Evil, the protagonist sees the error of his ways, he tries to redeem himself”, there were no real traits of its own. It's basically taking a narrow and shallow plot and making it pretty.

    As for the problems some people have with the characters, they just aren't believable. With the Colonel (or whatever rank he was), he had that hint of insanity, which some people like because it gives him his own flair, but some people want characters that seem realistic and believable. It's just a matter of preference. There were also some horribly blatant archetypes and stereotypes that shined through (the classic environmentalist and the rednecks waiting to shoot some injuns) which, to me at least, killed the idea of complex character traits.

    My opinion in short: shallow movie with some glitter thrown on.

  • thewhitetornado

    Sorry for the multiple posts, Internet Explorer and Vista :/

  • Pheonix_blu

    I particularly enjoyed your morality rant about the Avatars'undeniable “white guilt” theme. Thank you Spoonyone, for letting me know I'm not alone in the world.
    I had almost the exact same argument with my mother (who, of course, loved the movie) after I described it as “just another movie about the Evil Corporate White Man trying to keep Mother Nature down”.

    But seriously, It's basically the bastard love-child of Pochahantas and Fern Gully with multi-million dollar special effects”.

  • adamfox

    Sorry that Americans feel this movie is guilting them. Btw America isn't the center of the universe and the rest of the world doesn't care and see's it as just the evil empire that could be the company in alien. Even the american soldiers are subservient to a government we never see (presumably not just americans, but i could see why they'd send the yankies to do their dirty work). Basically the whole of humanity is evil, not JUST americans or whites…. but apparently according to Avatar, americans are just the dumbest

  • fieulinetabby

    Eh, it's just another Cowboys and Indians film… but I like those! They're simple, fun, interesting. And you know, as far as those go, Avatar was pretty fun.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ViperXX79 Thomas Lee Cook

    Well I just saw this on Blu-Ray. I'm not an eco-liberal who hates capitalism so this movie didn't speak to me and I found it boring. The only good part were the badass Marines.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ViperXX79 Thomas Lee Cook

    Yet when the shit hits the fan who does the world turn to? Yeah that's right, America. You're welcome.

  • adamfox

    Like I said.. the dumbest. Btw some of the time, just try and STOP them getting involved for no good reason.

  • SpoonyOneLove4You

    I went to the cinemas to see this in 3D, and I loved it! I don't know anyone who didn't like it, they all at least enjoyed it enough to sit through.
    Although, it did get a bit too much near the end as I really needed to go to the toilet, hehe. Might be a good idea for me to make an avatar review site at Cool Site Maker.
    By the way, is that “Big trouble in Little China” in the background?

  • The_Gunboat

    I’m on Spoony’s side. CGI does not a good movie make. James Cameron thinks that he can excuse a stock, watered-down story by inserting pretty looking ones and zeroes. The message might as well be painted on a 2×4 and cranked into my skull. Is there a coincidence that every human is an English-speaking American? Or that they require a mineral that belongs to the well-meaning-but-primative peoples? Also, I was PISSED at the flying mountain thing. This is James Cameron’s Avatar, not Avatar: The Last Airbender.

    Oh, and I doubt any normal human beings could be so awesomely douchey without a horrible mental condition. HOO-AH!

  • ujo1934

    I KNEW I WASNT THE ONLY 1 THEY DID LOOK LIKE THE MECHS IN MATRIX RVOLUTIONS!!

  • ujo1934

    o i also called bullshit on the mountains they even looked like Bhujerbah from FF12

  • 狐・小百合

    What's with all these 80s era critics bashing the CG? The problem with movies loaded with CG effects is they tend to not have a good story. CG is a really practical way to do anything these days since it's come to the point where I could just set my rig to render overnight once I got everything ready and I could have anything I want.

    The problem isn't the CG it's just the lack of interesting stories.

  • maduce

    I watched this review when it was uploaded, before I saw Avatar. I just watched it now.

    Maybe it would have been a better movie as an anime. Just title it Princess Mononoke 2.

  • maduce

    As far as the unabashedly greedy corporate bastards go, they briefly mention “the aliens return to their dying world” as the remnants of the camp are being escorted out. So presumably, there is a global energy, there is no more oil or coal and Unobtanium is the answer to Earth's problems.

  • dracodracul

    That is deeply insulting to Princess Mononoke which had both well developed characters, and a fairly strong sense of gray. Princess Mononoke left me with the feeling that while nature should be preserved, it is also somewhat hostile to us and that ultimately a life close to nature is not inherently better than one with technology. And that women capable of killing me easily are really sexy.

    Avatar left with the feeling that the only “proper” way to live is the white people version of Native American beliefs, and the technology automatically makes life worse. Also, that the quickest way to turn from bland to badass is jumping out of an exploding airship in a mechsuit, and the quickest way to stop being sexy is being blue.

  • peteman

    I believe that Unobtanium was initially used as a placeholder but no one could come up with something else.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Elio-Lopes-Ribeiro/1492315337 Élio Lopes Ribeiro

    It seems that Cameron forgot that more than pretty visuals a film needs a good script. Although it's quite a temptation of say the movie was great because of the CGI alone, when you think of it the story is paper thin. And so bloody predictable, I saw Dances with wolves, I saw The Last Samurai. Hell, I even saw Pocahontas. I saw this story being better told over and over again with a lot less resources and with a more natural look!!!
    And let's not forget that we humans, we were, we are and we always shall be the greatest SOB's of the Universe and that only primitive people is perfect because they live in balance with nature. They have no jealousy, greed, violent thoughts… you know, just like the Incas.

    I really despise this film and I'm quite sure the sequel won't be any good either.

    Oh, just a question for all. Since mankind is so bloodthirsty, technological advance and all that I was kind of hoping to see a orbital bombardment of Pandora or at least the use of a nuclear tactical weapon (the signature mark of Cameron)…
    So, what happened? It is too much for the unscrupulous humans we are? They only need the unobtanium, they could let radiation do the dirt job. I know I would because I am a Human.

  • AsukaSoryu

    Hearing this movie, I'd have to say I preffered the villains. xD Aw man, the villains just seems so stereotypical that it becomes funny. Like Naruto The Abridged when Itachi had a monocle and twirly mustache.

  • http://twitter.com/moldy_cheese felix macguffin

    Y'know what? I call BULLSHIT on Spoony. No, the movie isn't the best movie ever made (and not my best of 2009) but it was good and FUN. That was the whole purpose of the movie in the first place – to entertain. And it did. Seriously dude – you can't review movies nor games if you can't suspend your disbelief.

    So fuck you Spoony. Fuck you (but I still dig your vids).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eric-Mc/100000152293904 Eric Mc

    The irony is that George Lucas said in an interview in 1980 (I think it is RedLetterMedia review of Phantom Menace) and said was effects are there to add. Never accept a movie that uses effects as reason to see it and not the story or performances. Because then it ceases being a film and should not be considered one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zoot-Sutra/1438117574 Zoot Sutra

    Correction: Quaritch is ALWAYS badass. I will not see the sequel if he is not in it.

    Otherwise, every word of your post is spot on.

  • http://twitter.com/TheBladerunner9 Fred lake

    No, he can suspend his dis-belief but when you set up these flying mountains in our world, our existence, then it is impossible. Simple as. Now if you take middle-earth from lord of the rings, you can have as many flying fucking mountains as you freaking want because its a completely fictional world. Also a movie being fun and entertaining doesnt make it good. I can have fun watching a uwe boll film, laughing at how bad it is, I'm enjoying it, but its still a pile of shit. Also you are just proving that people think that having good special effects makes a good movie.

  • 狐・小百合

    I actually kind of liked Avatar, but that's only because I'm pre-disposed to premises like it has. While it had some good moments and feelings, it is really just a high-budget version of Ferngully in the end. It's way better than Ferngully though. Despite liking it much more than spoony does, I will have to agree with many of his points.

    The ending fight with the mech and the main character reminded me of the fight in District 9.

  • 狐・小百合

    Actually, if they just had shown that only the rocks are effected by the anomaly (like had more just flying around and bouncing off each other with normal stuff hanging down) it would have been OK. What gets me is that yes, there are waterfalls. They point out how misty the place is around there so why isn't it raining constantly? If it always rained, the waterfalls would seem more in-place.

    Or they could, you know, take the waterfalls out. But with a place that's covered in mist implies there is lots of water in the air, so you might expect it to rain often.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Elio-Lopes-Ribeiro/1492315337 Élio Lopes Ribeiro

    Don't dare to compare Avatar with District 9, not even that action scene.
    Avatar doesn't deserved it and I respect District 9 too much to be quiet about that remark.

    Why not compare it with another bad movie such as Transformers?

    No, wait! Transformers weren't that bad… Kidding, kidding.

  • 狐・小百合

    Well sorry to insult your holy orders movie which was good but not really that great and still had flaws. I actually enjoyed Avatar almost exactly as much as District 9. I actually like Avatar somewhat more than District 9 (because I like epic films rather than grim n' dirty films), but District 9 wasn't as slow. The fight at the end was almost exactly like the fight at the end of both movies. Both had the same amount of flaws for me, but different flaws.

    You got some commander guy fighting someone who is somehow mixed with the alien race who used to be on the other side and they have an awesome fight. The last fight in both movies were both very well done. It's almost exact. The only difference is the alien human in District 9 was the one in the mech armor.

    Transformers is a sanity check, that movie was god awful. It had insulting characters, un-watchable action, retarded plot, shea lebouf.. etc. It's a sanity check because spoony would probably ask me what I thought of Transformers 1 or 2 and we would play the movie comparison game. It's that kind of a movie everyone should hate if they are sane (hence the name).

    My problem with Avatar is that feeling that it could have been much better. It's a movie I really wanted to like much more but they just didn't cut it. Writers aren't as expensive as CGI stations, are they? With all the time they spent, they really should have improved the story.

  • Joon_Studios

    I agree. But I thought the story was good. It was it's own original take on Dances with the Wolves. The universe was well crafted. The characters were great too. My mom cried at the I see you part at the end. The effects were good but I didn't need effects to say this was the greatest movie ever made. Also, Ello Lopes Ribero, District 9 was good and maybe in my top 5 favorite films but it was nowhere near as good as Avatar. Plus comparing Avatar to Transformers is like comparing The best condition of platinum to the smelliest piece of terd in existence.

  • theforetoldlegend

    I agree with what you said, but I perfer Avatar to 2012

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=507957935 Brendan James Griffith

    I was dragged to this one by a girl. The 3D version, no less. And I swear, there was more 3D in the trailer for Alice in Wonderland than there was in the entire movie. I felt completely cheated out of my money, and I rarely ever feel cheated out of my money when I leave a theater because if I see a movie in theaters, I will go out of my way to FIND good parts of a movie to point to so that I can say I wasn't cheated. In Avatar, there was no such luck.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Siddle/1817380050 Jason Siddle

    Before i watch this video i just wanna say you spelt Pocahontas wrong.

    That is all.

  • 13secondspastmidnight

    I just wanted to put my two cents worth in (like every single other person who ever comments on a video… yes my hypocrisy is very evident), in that I do agree that this is recycling the same torn-down broken message in a very obvious way. However although I think the story is mundane and SO over-done that it is ridiculous and insulting… this is still the best execution I have ever seen of this particular story (I mean, even the mention of 'the Last Samurai' made me want to slit my wrists (that movie still haunts my nightmares *shudder*)). The visual effects were just that good that I did actually like this movie, despite the fact that the story and characters were preachy and overdone. And I did treat it entirely like an animated movie… because well 99% of it is animated and when you've created an entire movie out of CGI, it's a little silly to be complaining that the movie has CGI in it.

    In the end I just absolutely loved the visual effects to the point where I pretty much ignored most of the movie and just sat back to appreciate the artistry. I mean fluorescent plants, floating mountains and a tree with a nervous system? You bet it's ridiculous and unbelievable! But I thought (this is just my opinion though) that it was beautiful, and the effects were well done.

    Yeah, but anyway, great discussion and nice job dissecting this movie.

    Addendum: Also, I do believe that a really REALLY big chunk of why this movie is so popular is because – and I say this as an Australian who has cousins who live in America – most of the world REALLY DOES NOT LIKE AMERICA. It's just a fact. I'm not saying that this dislike is justified or not *coughbushadministrationcough*, but it is true that I know a lot of people who just felt really really good seeing an “evil” american corporation with obvious “evil” army expys being taken down by a bunch of giant blue smurfs with stones and sticks. I'm sorry, but that was just awesome.

    I mean, you better believe that if you guys hadn't voted Obama in, this movie would have been a much bigger hit simply because 95% of all movie theaters around the world would have had people cheering like at the fucking Roman colloseum.

  • 13secondspastmidnight

    Hi! I'd just like to point out that Avatar had giant blue smurfs with sticks trying to beat up oppressive humans with guns … and district 9 had giant black cockroaches with laser rifles trying to beat up oppressive humans with guns.

    I personally liked both movies equally… although the premise of both has been done many many times before.

  • 13secondspastmidnight

    Lord of the rings does have flying mountains… they're just not on middle earth. And, to be fair, Avatar does establish an entirely different environment and evolutional scale and, in fact, a world with an entirely different application of conventional physics And they do mention it. Yeah, it's implausible but I've suspended my own sense of disbelief for a lot less.

  • 31337garak

    You have a nice Siskel and Ebert thing going on with your brother. You should definitely do more movie reviews together. :)
    I have to say, I enjoyed the movie on a purely visual level, but the story left me feeling bludgeoned to death with propaganda and I was thinking this is Fern Gully all over again, but I liked Fern Gully more.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Adam-Kholladi-Ezagouri/1609710012 Adam Kholladi-Ezagouri

    Spoony man, I agree with you 100%…on every level. Having said that, your brother did not deserve to be burped on lol

    Giovanni Ribisi was awesome. The only truly awesome and convincing thing in the entire film.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bill-Newman/574558877 Bill Newman

    Avatar was a carbon setting copy of a Russian novel.

  • mihr

    james camerons next movie: Titanic 2, jack's revenge (in 3d)

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/L6PLQIPGHBBBK4XCNEJIALKY7U Katie

    “'e're gunna kill some injuns!!!”
    “YEAHHH!!!”
    …that's great.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zach-Sommer/100000706036353 Zach Sommer

    I can understand what you're brother touched on when he was talking about the message of the film. You have seen Dances with Wolves, Pocahontas, etc. The thing is those movies came out in the 1990's. History has shown people need to be CONSTANTLY reminded of these things.

    I promise you there is going to be some dimwitted 15 year old who up until this point has been so close minded that when someone communicates this message to him it'll be like an epiphany. Sad as it is someone who saw this movie needed to have this message hammered into their heads.

    A movie as simple, blatant and shamelessly anti-Iraq, or whatever this movie acts like it's making a statement about, is what is needed to communicate to the dull minded American Audience. Keeping in mind that Cameron is not of the US.

  • http://twitter.com/Shantalfigueroa Shantal Figueroa

    The thing is that I don't think that most people are dimwitted 15 year olds that have been closed minded until they see Avatar. This movie was marketed as having universal appeal, and it really doesn't. And hey, a lot of Americans are fucking tired of Iraq too but it's not the American people who make all military decisions.

    The thing is that when your movie tries to convey a message you have to do it in a subtle yet firm way. If you wanted to have an anti-Iraq war film, then make a film about how badly the Iraqi people are suffering or something. Don't just try to hammer it in a cheesy way , where your villains are redneck Marines that act in an overly-evil manner. American audiences won't identify with that at all and a lot of us just ended up rolling our eyes at the pretentiousness.

  • http://twitter.com/Shantalfigueroa Shantal Figueroa

    Half the movie was scenery porn, that's why it was so long. Haha.
    I agree with the whole white guilt thing- it's silly and racist and offensive to EVERYONE, not just white people. I mean, the part that offends a lot of people is also the fact that a white dude comes in and is instantly better than the natives at everything they do and because they're the main character they're always right and always the best. ALWAYS. Also the idea that one culture is just inherently better than another culture is just offensive in and of itself. (In Avatar the Navi were portrayed as having the best culture EVAAAR. And everyone who didn't agree with this was a bad guy.)

    I hated the preachiness of the movie as well. It doesn't add anything new to the table, and it's just beating a dead horse. Yes, the world hates America. We fucking know. It's not going to change how we go about our daily lives. I also have a problem with movies that portray the military as this EVIL entity and that every soldier is an evil mother fucker who wants to kill all the savages no matter how innocent they are in practice because the U.S. military doesn't work that way. People in the U.S. military come from different backgrounds from all around the country, and they're human. This means that they are capable of good, and capable of evil. They aren't giant cartoons running around shooting everything in their way. That is NOT how to write a good villain and it's not how real life works.

    The good things I have to say about Avatar are this, though:
    Yes, it was interesting to look at. The last fight scene was pretty awesome. Some of the scenery porn was sweeping and cool to look at.
    And James Cameron knows how to sell female characters who aren't necessarily walking fanservice machines. The females in this movie were pretty badass. I love how Sigourney Weaver filled the role of the sarcastic, gruff mentor. That female pilot was pretty cool too.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EINBAPPCAEOHMXJOYWLRB27UMY Harrison

    Here is this movie in one word: Macguffin!
    The defining aspect of a MacGuffin is that the major players in the story are (at least initially) willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to obtain it, regardless of what the MacGuffin actually is. In fact, the specific nature of the MacGuffin may be ambiguous, undefined, generic, left open to interpretation or otherwise completely unimportant to the plot. (Examples might include money, victory/glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, etc….or something entirely unexplained.)
    MacGuffins are sometimes referred to as plot coupons (especially if multiple ones are required, as in this movie) as the protagonist only needs to collect enough plot coupons and trade them in for a denouement.
    And our first of many Macguffins in this creatively uninspired cinematic holocaust? Unobtanium, which is brought up once for about 5 seconds near the beginning of the movie and is, of course, hardly (if ever, I kept zoning out) brought up again.
    Just take it at face value folks! All you really needed to know was that they were there for…some reason. Which is exactly all you really learn about the supposedly precious metal. Seriously, if you missed the first 5 minutes you don't even know why they're there. Not that it matters. They could have just said “Our mission is classified,” never uncover it and it would have been exactly the same movie! And there you have it: an explanation towards the lack of creativity about just the first scene that took longer to write than the entire first act! This movie is stupid on a stick!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Mcnamee/100000029655337 James Mcnamee

    unobtainium really i mean really what the hell

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DQGWWL2LP23UV4QRSVT6RFH4BI Benjamin

    I might suggest that the preachy anti-racism or anti-imperialism morals will stop being necessary when people stop acting that way (and make no mistake, there's still plenty of racism and imperialistic tendencies in North America and around the world). Not that I completely disagree with you–in most cases, as in Avatar and Ferngully, it seems like the writers don't really understand the issue at hand, and are just regurgitating stock morals with no depth–but I think it's a small price to pay to get masterpieces like To Kill a Mockingbird or Schindler's List.

    I wasn't a huge fan of Avatar, even if the preachy morals weren't the biggest problem for me. It wasn't the preachiness that bugged me as much as the fact that it was such a predictable and simple plot, marketed as being an original and innovative movie. Like Noah, I think it's too long and, at best, an okay movie that didn't deserve the hype that it got.

    I don't really have a problem with the use of CGI in movies, but I don't find it impressive either. It seems to me that it should just be a medium for art and design, not as the main feature of the movie. EVERY movie has CGI nowadays, and good technology doesn't guarantee that the art will be visually appealing (Avatar looked okay, but I didn't think it was anything to phone home about), and it certainly doesn't make up for a second-rate story. Perhaps if I had seen it in 3-D I might have liked it better, just because the effects might have distracted me from the derivative story.

  • maduce

    Heh. Yeah I agree with you. I'm just saying if Avatar was an anime, people would claim it's highly derivative of Princes Mononoke. It certainly was a far superior story for all the reasons you mention. And thank you, I'm glad I wasn't the only one not turned on by the Na'vi.

  • commander672

    I disagree with the end battle scene being good. ITS BULLSHIT! Why? Becouse all the while these guys are fighting, there's a glareing plothole in their battle plan: The Daisycutter…IS IN A MOTHERFUCKING SPACESHIP! Which means that they could simply fly the caarft in the thinner upper-atmoshpere of the planet and drop it from their where the Na Vi can't retaliate. Use your computers and calculate wind speed and simple trajectories, factor in the floating mountains…And DONE! You've got a quick and easy daisycutter surprise, and if the Na Vi try to intercept the bomb, they'll get their bones crushed by the explosive's massive acceleration. And since the sensory corroption they mentioned in the zone clearly doesn't effect light, you could even use modern electronics to make things more accurate.

    And why did they land troops on the ground? The Na Vi have no AA cababilities beyond their dragons! Those men could have been put to better use gaurding the base!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QAA3PLINWX5HWIBECANURYWJKQ Duelist

    I wont touch on the message, or the preachiness, or the similarities, because all of that is discussed everywhere, but I will say one thing: I disagree with The Spoony one about the ecology. I loved the ecology. As a scifi nerd, I am so tired of seeing ecologies that arent alien. Yes, they have alien species, or plants, but the basic ecology is earthlike to some extent. This? This is the most Alien ecology I've seen on film in a long time, and so radically different in so many ways from ours. I loved the light up plants, because thats shows a fundamental difference to earth ecology, and it provides a wonderfully simple answer for why so many animals in this movie are bioluminescent. Its as simple as, “If it don't glow, its a dark spot on a light up background” which is the exact opposite of earth. At night, if its bright, it stands out. On Pandora, at night, if its not bright, it stands out. And something that simple shows an alieness to this planet that I adore.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    and while george did break that rule..he did kinda learn from it. and did better in episode 2 and 3 (in my opinion)
    but unfortunately i dont think james will either learn or even care.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    he likes yor…so of course he can suspend disbelief.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    yeah whats up with that?
    what science did they have to make that seem plausible in anything?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    not to mention…armor piercing rifles vs ….sticks…..go figure. the plot says so.

    note: jake forgot to tell them they just wanted the rocks..which are never explain why they are valuable…..thats already a few plot holes right there…heck the rocks being more valuable than the aliens is like 7 plot holes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    i dont care what movie it is…put you cant have floating mountains on any planet….with or with out water falls…
    and the pony tail usb crap is just insulting to the name of SCIENCE!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    well i agree if they explained it would have been easier to except…but if anyone knows any science or simple physics…it will never happen..unless chuck norris decides to juggle.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

    preachy white guilt environmentalist movies make me want to chop down trees….so they actually lose and i feel better for wasting money to see this crap…

  • Badoshke

    They do explain it, or at least vaguely. They say at least a few time the 'rocks' are a very good energy source, and can power things used on earth so well, it would be worth millions (or maybe billions). Why are they so good? How are they used? They don't go into that, but really, does it matter? They could say there's machinery that extracts a certain part of this material which is compatible with and used with electronically device that can power things, and it wouldn't add much to this failure of a movie, even if it was better. And the rocks being 'more valuable' than the aliens isn't a plot hole at all unless you don't understand their mind set or predicament.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      wouldnt you think that in the furture we would be able to synthesize or actually MAKE the compound that is the rock?

      and even if it wasn’t a compound but an element, then it should be too radioactive to form in nature because it isnt known on the periodic chart.

  • Badoshke

    I basically agree that Avatar was terrible, but not necessarily for the same reasons. The message the movie presents doesn't really bother me that much. What does bother me is the fact that it's basically spoon fed to you, and has no originality whatsoever. At least if it took an original view, or made you think about what it was saying, then I may have liked it better, but it didn't. It took the “Hi, I'm a mainstream movie and here's everything you need to and want to know about me and then some” approach, which I don't respect in any movie, overused message or not. The only thing this movie really does have is visuals, which don't last very long and isn't something a movie should stand on. The first time I saw it, sure, they were pretty great, but the second time I saw it, they barely amused me, and I noticed how bland and empty this movie really is.
    Also, Pocahontas is another movie is completely rips off, if it wasn't said already.

  • Anonymous

    They do explain it, or at least vaguely. They say at least a few time the ‘rocks’ are a very good energy source, and can power things used on earth so well, it would be worth millions (or maybe billions). Why are they so good? How are they used? They don’t go into that, but really, does it matter? They could say there’s machinery that extracts a certain part of this material which is compatible with and used with electronical devices that can power things, and it wouldn’t add much to this failure of a movie, even if it was better. And the rocks being ‘more valuable’ than the aliens isn’t a plot hole at all unless you don’t understand their mind set or predicament.

  • Anonymous

    I basically agree that Avatar was terrible, but not necessarily for the same reasons. The message the movie presents doesn’t really bother me that much. What does bother me is the fact that it’s basically spoon fed to you, and has no originality whatsoever. At least if it took an original view, or made you think about what it was saying, then I may have liked it better, but it didn’t. It took the “Hi, I’m a mainstream movie and here’s everything you need to and want to know about me and then some” approach, which I don’t respect in any movie, overused message or not. The only thing this movie really does have is visuals, which don’t last very long and isn’t something a movie should stand on. The first time I saw it, sure, they were pretty great, but the second time I saw it, they barely amused me, and I noticed how bland and empty this movie really is.
    Also, Pocahontas is another movie it completely rips off, if it wasn’t said already.

  • Anonymous

    Alien ecology? These are all Earth creatures bashed together with no sense of reason! Here’s a four-armed monkey! Here’s an evil flamingo! Here’s a rhino-peacock! Here’s a lizard dog! Here’s a really big lizard dog! Here’s FUCKING DINOSAURS! The cat people’s holy tree is a fucking weeping willow! My aunt has one in her backyard! And how is being lit up supposed to make you harder to see, even in a bright environment?

  • Anonymous

    You’re very dismissive of your brother, Spoony. Be nice.

  • Anonymous

    Some cultures are better than others. For example, Western Civilization > Taliban oppression.

  • Anonymous

    i know, and i feel so bad for him Q.Q

  • Anonymous

    Titanic 2: Resurrection

    A team of decepticons go into the ocean with a stolen piece of the all spark and resurrect Jack

  • http://twitter.com/MrNamefag Ashely Lutz

    I know corporate heads and people in power are generally assholes. I know we fucked over native americans. I know we need to defend the environment and not destroy it. But I don’t need a shitty movie to tell me any of that.

  • Anonymous

    terrible critic!? at least he elaborates on his views and doesnt just say some one dimensional comment like “breath taking” you sir are a dumb ass

  • http://twitter.com/MrNamefag Ashely Lutz

    I’m even more sick of these kind of movies, because they’ve just stopped trying to mask it. It’s always flat out, “These people are assholes and these people are paragons of kindness.” It’s even more irritating now that people try to denounce environmentalism based solely on how terrible and preachy these movies are.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MJM4MMTC5C5UQXV4C55GZ6OOL4 Smaragdos

    Visually spectacular.Worth watching.But the story was the standard generic scenario.Nothing original, many stereotypes and illogical forced evilness. Frankly despite the effects it was really forgettable….

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      so….watch for the visuals only?

      thats not a good selling point, go to an art museum for good visuals.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      so….watch for the visuals only?

      thats not a good selling point, go to an art museum for good visuals.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      so….watch for the visuals only?

      thats not a good selling point, go to an art museum for good visuals.

  • Anonymous

    Well, I don’t know if this was mentioned in the previous over 500 comments, but here it goes. The mountains are possible, given their explanations. Seriously, you can even look it up in youtube. Ok, first, they want unobtainium because it is a super condutor, super conductors do crazy stuff, including, providing you have enough of it, make mountains fly. How? Well, it’s almost rocket surgery :P, but it works, you can look through youtube, and the wikipedia for superconductors, it is cool, and they said the mountais where made of super conductors, provided with the magnetic field of pandora, you know, like earth has one too, the superconductors oppose the variability to the magnetic field change…. my mermory is a bit rusty on that, but it works close to that, and since they waste no energy with heat and such, they won’t ever fall :P

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

      when i watched the movie i dont recall superconductor comeing up at all.
      lets also consider the fact that they want this to be a NATURAL thing. maby its possible…but never to that scale.

      and you still have to explain the water falls.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Emerson-Simmons/100001068799912 Emerson Simmons

      when i watched the movie i dont recall superconductor comeing up at all.
      lets also consider the fact that they want this to be a NATURAL thing. maby its possible…but never to that scale.

      and you still have to explain the water falls.

  • http://www.facebook.com/slegersjohn John Slegers

    I just think you just got too carried away with your inability to apply the required suspension of disbelief and the political undertones. I was expecting a very mediocre film, but I was pleasantly susprised ro really enjoy this film… but perhaps that’s because the pantheistic concept (the whole “everything is connected” concept) appealed to me and I actually did find the CGI convincing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/slegersjohn John Slegers

    I just think you just got too carried away with your inability to apply the required suspension of disbelief and the political undertones. I was expecting a very mediocre film, but I was pleasantly susprised ro really enjoy this film… but perhaps that’s because the pantheistic concept (the whole “everything is connected” concept) appealed to me and I actually did find the CGI convincing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Wilbur/100000233713624 Michael Wilbur

    Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

    I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Wilbur/100000233713624 Michael Wilbur

    Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

    I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Wilbur/100000233713624 Michael Wilbur

    Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

    I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-Wilbur/100000233713624 Michael Wilbur

    Yeah! What kind of hack author would have floating islands in their work seriously? I mean, that’s just … er … *ahem*. Seriously, at least I explain why the islands float in what I’d like to think is a plausible way, at least in the mainstream (is there even a point to trying to explain it in the dream realm?). Then again, the fantasy series I really got into, the Death Gate Cycle, started off with floating continents. Even then, the Kicksey Wimsey (I think I spelled that right) was the ultimate cause of the floating islands there.

    I didn’t really love or hate Avatar; I think that’s the problem. It just didn’t really stand out to me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Allison-Hanna/1460142119 Allison Hanna

    Avatar seemed pretty unoriginal and uninspired to me. And I thought many of the effects were terrible, especially for the Na’vi.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Allison-Hanna/1460142119 Allison Hanna

    Avatar seemed pretty unoriginal and uninspired to me. And I thought many of the effects were terrible, especially for the Na’vi.

  • Anonymous

    “I have to wait till the science catches up with it” Cameron sounds more like Lucas more and more. Cause Episode 1 ended up being worth the 16 year wait since the last one.

    Spoony, you completely echoed my thoughts on the movie about being condescending and obvious. James Cameron in the past was great at covering up the messages in his movies and not making them as preachy here.

    Your brother made a good point about movies and they’re messages but sneaking in an insulting and preachy message into what is supposed to be a sci fi spectacle is a dick move.

  • Anonymous

    “I have to wait till the science catches up with it” Cameron sounds more like Lucas more and more. Cause Episode 1 ended up being worth the 16 year wait since the last one.

    Spoony, you completely echoed my thoughts on the movie about being condescending and obvious. James Cameron in the past was great at covering up the messages in his movies and not making them as preachy here.

    Your brother made a good point about movies and they’re messages but sneaking in an insulting and preachy message into what is supposed to be a sci fi spectacle is a dick move.

  • http://twitter.com/carishtoteles Chris Lested

    I didn’t see any trailers to this movie before I watched it. I heard that it should be really great but didn’t know anything about the characters or the storyline etc.
    While I watched the movie I wasn’t annoyed by a lot of things, though I could never fully suspend my disbelief (or how ever you say that).
    Maybe it was because it was in 3D or maybe because the whole story was really cheesy. The humans (*cough* americans *cough*) were the worst. All I have to say is “we will fight terror with terror!!”. That line litterly killed the whole movie for me. But even before that they were totally unrealistic and annoying. And they called the mineral “unobtainium”…. omg.
    I never saw dancing with wolves, but I saw Pocahantas… very similar. Very boring.

    The CGI was good though.

  • http://twitter.com/carishtoteles Chris Lested

    I didn’t see any trailers to this movie before I watched it. I heard that it should be really great but didn’t know anything about the characters or the storyline etc.
    While I watched the movie I wasn’t annoyed by a lot of things, though I could never fully suspend my disbelief (or how ever you say that).
    Maybe it was because it was in 3D or maybe because the whole story was really cheesy. The humans (*cough* americans *cough*) were the worst. All I have to say is “we will fight terror with terror!!”. That line litterly killed the whole movie for me. But even before that they were totally unrealistic and annoying. And they called the mineral “unobtainium”…. omg.
    I never saw dancing with wolves, but I saw Pocahantas… very similar. Very boring.

    The CGI was good though.

  • Anonymous

    Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?

    Its a sci-fi movie, a family movie an adventure movie, much like a robin hood movie with errol flynn, it doesnt need to have anything to do with reality. Is robin hood a politcal statement about medevial britain? Or any kind of allegory?

    Hollywood has almost allways, through history of american cinema been a propaganda machine for the united states, its ok to portray russian as stereotypical badguys that only has one purpose, to destroy america during the cold war for example. Nowadays its muslims/arabs thats ok to without any scrutiny portray as one purpose badguys to harm citisen of the united states and thats not even anything allegorical.

    So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.

    I cant say i thought of it that way at all when i saw the movie myself, sure its not a original story, its like dances with wolfes/pocahontas, its about opening your eyes to another viewpoint. True its very black and white with not much gray areas, but certainly not anything that stands out in that department in hollywoods fantasy world.

    I saw it as an adventure movie, sure the story is like a episode of the transformers, flying mountains, a planet that is all connected, its silly, but not disturbingly so when watched as a weekend morning cartoon, then its actually really well made and entertaining. My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.

    I think you should watch Avatar as such, as a kid, relax your brain from further thinking.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      “Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?”

      -because we want a movie, not a hollywood liberalism rant. keep that shit on MSNBC.

      “Its a sci-fi movie, a family movie an adventure movie, much like a robin hood movie with errol flynn, it doesnt need to have anything to do with reality. Is robin hood a politcal statement about medevial britain? Or any kind of allegory?”

      -one; its pg-13 and people say “SHIT” and get impaled with spears and get bombed.
      oh yeah FAMILY is written all over that. oh and cat sex….yeah, i wish i didnt see that.
      second; the analogy with robin was the worse comparison ive ever heard or read.

      “Hollywood has almost allways, through history of american cinema been a propaganda machine for the united states, its ok to portray russian as stereotypical badguys that only has one purpose, to destroy america during the cold war for example. Nowadays its muslims/arabs thats ok to without any scrutiny portray as one purpose badguys to harm citisen of the united states and thats not even anything allegorical.”

      -they were most of the time subtle and didnt stick its agenda cock in our skulls though….some did but not all.

      “So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.

      I cant say i thought of it that way at all when i saw the movie myself, sure its not a original story, its like dances with wolfes/pocahontas, its about opening your eyes to another viewpoint. True its very black and white with not much gray areas, but certainly not anything that stands out in that department in hollywoods fantasy world.”

      – so…what about all the people who lost their job as a result of Jakes insurrection, what about the soldiers who needed that job? or the ones WHO FUCKING DIED. how about that viewpoint? or that jake wouldnt have cared about the navi if they were cockroaches like in district 9

      “I saw it as an adventure movie, sure the story is like a episode of the transformers, flying mountains, a planet that is all connected, its silly, but not disturbingly so when watched as a weekend morning cartoon, then its actually really well made and entertaining. My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.
      I think you should watch Avatar as such, as a kid, relax your brain from further thinking.”

      -an adventure with a shit plot. want a GOOD adventure movie with good visuals…2001 a space odyssey

  • Anonymous

    Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?

    Its a sci-fi movie, a family movie an adventure movie, much like a robin hood movie with errol flynn, it doesnt need to have anything to do with reality. Is robin hood a politcal statement about medevial britain? Or any kind of allegory?

    Hollywood has almost allways, through history of american cinema been a propaganda machine for the united states, its ok to portray russian as stereotypical badguys that only has one purpose, to destroy america during the cold war for example. Nowadays its muslims/arabs thats ok to without any scrutiny portray as one purpose badguys to harm citisen of the united states and thats not even anything allegorical.

    So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.

    I cant say i thought of it that way at all when i saw the movie myself, sure its not a original story, its like dances with wolfes/pocahontas, its about opening your eyes to another viewpoint. True its very black and white with not much gray areas, but certainly not anything that stands out in that department in hollywoods fantasy world.

    I saw it as an adventure movie, sure the story is like a episode of the transformers, flying mountains, a planet that is all connected, its silly, but not disturbingly so when watched as a weekend morning cartoon, then its actually really well made and entertaining. My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.

    I think you should watch Avatar as such, as a kid, relax your brain from further thinking.

  • Anonymous

    Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?

    Its a sci-fi movie, a family movie an adventure movie, much like a robin hood movie with errol flynn, it doesnt need to have anything to do with reality. Is robin hood a politcal statement about medevial britain? Or any kind of allegory?

    Hollywood has almost allways, through history of american cinema been a propaganda machine for the united states, its ok to portray russian as stereotypical badguys that only has one purpose, to destroy america during the cold war for example. Nowadays its muslims/arabs thats ok to without any scrutiny portray as one purpose badguys to harm citisen of the united states and thats not even anything allegorical.

    So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.

    I cant say i thought of it that way at all when i saw the movie myself, sure its not a original story, its like dances with wolfes/pocahontas, its about opening your eyes to another viewpoint. True its very black and white with not much gray areas, but certainly not anything that stands out in that department in hollywoods fantasy world.

    I saw it as an adventure movie, sure the story is like a episode of the transformers, flying mountains, a planet that is all connected, its silly, but not disturbingly so when watched as a weekend morning cartoon, then its actually really well made and entertaining. My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.

    I think you should watch Avatar as such, as a kid, relax your brain from further thinking.

    • dennett316

      I enjoyed Avatar, but it is extremely heavy handed in it’s message. I don’t mind subtext, but this was just bludgeoning you over the head with the message…Cameron used to do subtle very well, maybe he’s out of step?

      • Anonymous

        And how does that bludgeoning differ from any other nonsensical good vs evil movie with steroetypical bad and good guys?
        Camerons closest movie to this must be The Abyss, and to be honest, the soldiers/seals are insane in that one too, following orders because of a unfounded fear of u.s.s.r from goverment propaganda even when its appearent to everyone its not, theres no subtlety about it.

      • Anonymous

        And how does that bludgeoning differ from any other nonsensical good vs evil movie with steroetypical bad and good guys?
        Camerons closest movie to this must be The Abyss, and to be honest, the soldiers/seals are insane in that one too, following orders because of a unfounded fear of u.s.s.r from goverment propaganda even when its appearent to everyone its not, theres no subtlety about it.

        • Anonymous

          First, in The Abyss, the seals weren’t insane. *One* of the seals went insane, but that was *only* due to pressure-induced psychosis. Yeah, I’m pretty sure he wasn’t entirely stable back on the surface, but he was fairly reasonable then. None of them went insane because of an unfounded fear of Russia; the unfounded fear came *after* the insanity. The rest were just following orders.

          Second, while The Abyss was moderately heavy-handed, it was primarily from the NTI’s, not the seals. And even then, that was only in the director’s cut, when the NTI’s threatened to destroy the world due to the nuclear arms issue. And quite frankly, since they live on the same world as us, that’s an entirely legitimate response to us threatening to irradiate a large part of it.

          The Abyss was *nothing* compared to Avatar.

    • Anonymous

      “So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.”

      Except that that’s not true.

      For me, my problem with Avatar is with the nature of the Na’vi. They’re sociological dead ends.

      They don’t want things to get better. They aren’t interested in life-saving medicines that can help them live long. They’re fine with their current infant mortality rates. They don’t want to know about mathematics, chemistry, biology, or physics. They just want to sit around, hunt, sing, and have head-tail sex.

      And they are *supposed* to be Native American analogs. I call BS on that. The Native Americans may have been somewhat behind the technological development of the rest of the world, but they were very much interested in technology. When they found out what guns could do, they *wanted guns*. The same goes for medicine, etc.

      The only reason they weren’t as advanced as the rest of the world was because they were isolated from the rest of the world’s advancement for a long, long time. And even then, they were *still* advancing on their own.

      My problem is the deification of the intellectual sloth that the Na’vi embody. This movie is saying that the Na’vi “civilization” (and can you really call it that?) is superior to that of humanity. This despite the fact that human beings could easily wipe out the Na’vi via orbital bombardment if they so choose. This despite the fact that human being have LEARNED HOW TO TRAVEL BETWEEN THE STARS!

      In a few billion years, when the Sun eventually dies, the human race in the Avatar-verse will still exist on other planets. Maybe even Pandora, after we drop rocks from space on it till the planet stops thinking. But when Pandora’s star dies, it will take every last Na’vi with it. They will die, and the universe will keep spinning as if they never existed. Even though they’re literally sitting on a pile of interstellar fuel, they will never know how to use it to fly to other worlds.

      In Avatar-verse, humanity will outlive the Na’vi, Pandora, and their sentient world-brain. For all their supposedly “better” culture, humans win in the end. The culture of stagnation is nothing compared to the culture of growth and pursuit. The fact that the movie refuses to acknowledge this unassailable fact is what annoys me so much about the movie.

      Compare this to the movie “Battle for Terra.” It’s a similar situation: humans invading an alien planet. But the script doesn’t take sides. The humans needs a new home, and the atmosphere of the planet is toxic to humanity, so they need to terraform it. But the aliens that live there can’t breath human atmosphere, and so they fight. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? That’s for you to decide; the script isn’t going to say that one side is unquestionably better than the other.

      The aliens there are not a culture of stagnation; they are inquisitive and want to advance. Indeed, they were advanced once. But they almost killed themselves off in war, so they’re trying to advance more slowly and deliberately now. They are not shown to be perfect or superior in any way to humanity. They simply *are*; the script lets you decide for yourself if they’re really better.

      “My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.”

      It is not my intent to be insulting, but your son is a child. I’m sure he would say that Avatar is a fun movie, and that Citizen Kane is boring and dull. This doesn’t make it so. He’s a child; he simply doesn’t *know* any better. His opinions are ultimately worth nothing, simply because he doesn’t know enough to have informed opinions on the subject.

    • Anonymous

      wtf “Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?”
      ok are u american if you are why do you think its ok to hate it if you arnt get out of here

  • Anonymous

    Whats up with the rant about american imperialism? Feels thats the major beef spoony has with the movie, why be so upset and blinded about that?

    Its a sci-fi movie, a family movie an adventure movie, much like a robin hood movie with errol flynn, it doesnt need to have anything to do with reality. Is robin hood a politcal statement about medevial britain? Or any kind of allegory?

    Hollywood has almost allways, through history of american cinema been a propaganda machine for the united states, its ok to portray russian as stereotypical badguys that only has one purpose, to destroy america during the cold war for example. Nowadays its muslims/arabs thats ok to without any scrutiny portray as one purpose badguys to harm citisen of the united states and thats not even anything allegorical.

    So what if Avatar is allogorical of historical events or current events? Its not different from anything else that hollywood puts out.

    I cant say i thought of it that way at all when i saw the movie myself, sure its not a original story, its like dances with wolfes/pocahontas, its about opening your eyes to another viewpoint. True its very black and white with not much gray areas, but certainly not anything that stands out in that department in hollywoods fantasy world.

    I saw it as an adventure movie, sure the story is like a episode of the transformers, flying mountains, a planet that is all connected, its silly, but not disturbingly so when watched as a weekend morning cartoon, then its actually really well made and entertaining. My son loves the movie, he doesnt judge it as an political allegory, he enjoys the adventure the exciting beautifull world.

    I think you should watch Avatar as such, as a kid, relax your brain from further thinking.

  • Anonymous

    Now that you mention it, the Colonel in this movie is my new hero, how someone who was this transparently evil made it so high up in the chain of command, I can only assume he beat everyone who questioned him to death. I kinda hate this movie, but someday I’ll find a cheap copy and buy it, just so I can watch it and find all the plot holes and ridiculous moments.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RYBYUWDJTGFOKZJNTNMJ4GP3EQ Universe

    Why the hell don’t you review more stuff with your bro? Seriously, that was great.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zoot-Sutra/1438117574 Zoot Sutra

    Yes, he beat them to death WITH HIS BALLS.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=618214264 Christian Conrad Margard

    The flying mountains! Finally, someone else who calls that bullshit!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=618214264 Christian Conrad Margard

    The flying mountains! Finally, someone else who calls that bullshit!

  • Anonymous

    If there is a force there that is strong enough to hold these rocks up, why isn’t anything with a smaller mass flying up into the air? Why is the water falling?
    Why couldn’t they come up with a better name for unobtanium? What is the point of the frisbee lizard?
    If gravity on Earth is stronger than gravity on Pandora, why aren’t humans just putting gas masks on and punching the wildlife to death? (An example for size relativity: if you met a termite the size of a dog it would fucking kill you.)
    If everything on Pandora has a literal connection to each other with no compatibility issues, what purpose does does it serve besides letting the only humanoid species on the planet ride everything?
    If the planet was sentient the whole time and had its own “immune system” in the form of angry wild beasts, why didn’t it chase the humans off when they first showed up?
    Why did the planet just decide to be vengeful when this random human asked and not when all of the native cat people were probably crying about the same thing?
    How is it that the genetic compatibility is so important that they need the guy’s sibling to operate the avatar, but mixing human DNA with that of an alien species from another planet with no genetic similarities doesn’t change anything?
    Why is it that the humans decided to colonize the planet, yet didn’t attempt to make any contact with any of the other tribes of aliens on an entire planet.
    Why did the big bad corporation spend so much money on data they were just going to throw away anyways (for teh evuls)?
    What the hell happened to Earth and our government? Why is no contact made with them? Why is it called a ruined planet? Are we just supposed to assume Al Gore was right and the environment went to shit?

    Immersion, you’re doing it wrong.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      the answer to all these questions are:

      James Cameron can’t write an original script for shit.
      think about it. almost every other movie he made was based of another idea or event.

      If this was rewritten as a science FANTASY i would have bought it (and if they dropped the unessecary politics that ruin movies) i would have bought it.

      but i had to put it within 150 years in earth future eliminating any suspension of disbelief for a fantasy and put it in science Fiction…and yes they are two different things. With this type of movie you have to explain the science and the world. he did not, this movie was a fucking CASH IN. thats all it was…a scheme. which makes me think james may be a bit of a hypocrite. especially with the anti-corporation theme this movie had.

      and it pissed me off because i found NOTHING that could be backed up in a logical way. everything violated simple science and logic to the point of just pissing me off!

      for example: no navi asked about why the humans were their in the first place.
      no scientist figured out the hair thing and its connection to the planet before this movie.
      no earth nation or scientific community fought for the planets protection
      nothing was explained about the “unobtanium” in fact, when you think about it, it makes plot holes.
      how is the MOON Pandora able to keep a stable environment when it circles around a gas giant!?
      how did all the animals evolve with the ponytails?!
      how did bullets not devastate the navi in the battle? tough bones doesn’t protect flesh!
      why did EVERYTHING have 6 legs!? (seriously the navi where the only animal with out 6 legs or arms or wings…..no wait the ponytail and tail counts as two extra limbs…shit)
      Wouldn’t the resources to travel faster than light be sucking in more money than the rock would be worth?
      and WHY did they just not dig somewhere else? they said the tribe sat on the biggest stash in 200 kilometers…well if you have fucking space ships and helicopters…dig somewhere else!

      thats just a sliver of my questions! and none can be answered with out someone just bullshitting me.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Zoot-Sutra/1438117574 Zoot Sutra

        Your neighbor is awesome. And I agree with all of your points.

        • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

          well….his mailbox is pretty happening.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rebecca-Smith/804271796 Rebecca Smith

    I completely understand where Spoony is coming. That being said I still love this movie. Yeah the floating mountains were stupid and yes it’s a rip off of Dances With Wolves, but I still love it. To me it was more of an experience then a story.

    • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

      ….i have to ask….WHAT EXPERIENCE!?!?!?!
      what is it a ride?

      what kind of excuse is that anyway?!
      “its an experience”
      so many people have used that as a compliment.

      guess what people…ITS WATCHING A MOVIE… OF COURSE ITS AN “EXPERIENCE!”

      and dont say that it was the visuals. FIREWORKS are a good visual.
      cgi is a visual thats been around since…ever.
      hell stepping on a nail is an experience.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rebecca-Smith/804271796 Rebecca Smith

    I completely understand where Spoony is coming. That being said I still love this movie. Yeah the floating mountains were stupid and yes it’s a rip off of Dances With Wolves, but I still love it. To me it was more of an experience then a story.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000520943957 Noah Goodman

    the scared guy reminds me of terl from battlefield earth.
    Near the end spoony seems to be saying that he liked the movie because of the colonel chewing the scenery so often and those weird moments like the white trash army guys.
    I liked the movie for fight scenes, a few touchy moments (that I enjoyed the first time only really), the scenery chewing, and a few other things. (also this movie validates it’s 3D with the 3D not sucking and not being ridiculously superfluous and gimmicky).
    I liked the movie for a few things and a I hated other parts of it so I’ll take what I got but I can think of so many ideas for a better story. Not truly better execution but little background things in the dialogue.
    Just something that makes me think this was a great movie, the navi language was actually completely made, they hired someone to create the language fully and only he knows it to the full extent, the actors don’t even know the language to the fullest they just see what’s on the script.
    although even with all this in mind I say that I won’t overkill on this movie
    I recorded fight club on a dvr and watched it several times for the following 3-4 weeks. I would not do that for avatar EVER
    I would do that for arny films
    I would do that for sly films
    I would do that for SO MANY FILMS but just not avatar.
    I even saw it in imax 3D, 2D, and normal 3D yet I still would never watch it like that again
    I saw every experience you could have as it was not released in imax 2D. I saw every way to see this film in theaters yet I’ll never do that again. it cost a lot and the final time (2D) was kind of boring as I was used to the 3D effect and I had scene everything there was
    I saw it to observe the story
    I saw it to observe the action
    and that was it, the final time there was nothing left to observe.
    so my take is much like miles’.

  • http://www.facebook.com/SuperMAIDS Paul Cook

    I don’t care about the style (it being a cartoon) just the utter lack of substance.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AF52NSQV5IMNG2V4RAG56HUSJI ryan

    Cameron should rip-off more Harlan Ellison works

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AF52NSQV5IMNG2V4RAG56HUSJI ryan

    Cameron should rip-off more Harlan Ellison works

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AF52NSQV5IMNG2V4RAG56HUSJI ryan

    Cameron should rip-off more Harlan Ellison works

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AF52NSQV5IMNG2V4RAG56HUSJI ryan

    Cameron should rip-off more Harlan Ellison works

  • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

    i wouldnt say liberal, after all some of the best movies are liberal (apocalypse now to kill a mockingbird ect.)
    but liberals who act like asses and rip people off while talking down to us in a pretentious tone?
    FUCK THEM!!!

    • Anonymous

      Benedikt Steinar Vésteinsson:
      i would like to see you defend them for the way this country is going this great country isnt in a good shape and is going down the toliet because of pc ness (if you want ill give you examples) and more pc ness is not gona fix it
      James Simmons:
      i agree a lot of good movies are liberal but id also add the Che Guevara Mao and many other facist scum gained their fame because of movies made by liberals or as lenin put it useful idiots because of the BS used people get misinformened and their emotions are used as a liberal wepon

  • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

    i wouldnt say liberal, after all some of the best movies are liberal (apocalypse now to kill a mockingbird ect.)
    but liberals who act like asses and rip people off while talking down to us in a pretentious tone?
    FUCK THEM!!!

  • http://twitter.com/Jegsimmons James Simmons

    i wouldnt say liberal, after all some of the best movies are liberal (apocalypse now to kill a mockingbird ect.)
    but liberals who act like asses and rip people off while talking down to us in a pretentious tone?
    FUCK THEM!!!

  • Katrin

    Poor Miles, it’s like Spoony keeps slapping him in the face with verbal debate.

  • Katrin

    Poor Miles, it’s like Spoony keeps slapping him in the face with verbal debate.

  • http://profiles.google.com/zaxerinn Benedikt Steinar Vésteinsson

    Yeah, you go nazgulkickass, fight stupid shit with stupid shit.

    Goddamn it boy, cut the douchebaggery. You’re not much better than the super-preachy and PC “libtards” you hate so much. I’m so fucking tired of this us vs. them mentality in politics, it gets us fucking nowhere and only serves to divide us even further and unfairly dismiss each other because we’re a part of some specific group. And actually, with this bullshit, you’re purporting that very black and white mentality spoony talks against in this video. You honestly think that no liberal who watched this movie got annoyed from all this completely unnecessarily intrusive, PC and over-simplified allegory to our world and its problems, EVEN if they’d agree with them in another context?

    But, in an attempt to not deride the discussion entirely, I think Avatar is good for one viewing, and only in theaters or with a good home theater system (the former of which is too late now, of course). I managed to turn off my inner critic/brain somehow and just totally get into that beautiful, dreamy world, especially since I realize I thought of it more as a fantasy flick than a sci-fi one while viewing it, and thus didn’t criticize it as much as I would otherwise have. I mean, most of the time is spent in the “natural” world without much tech stuff going on at all, observing life and culture so much different from ours.

    But yeah, it’s only good for one viewing. I doubt I’ll be able to immerse myself in that world again with a second viewing, since then I’d be noticing it’s flaws even more.

    • Anonymous

      Benedikt Steinar Vésteinsson:
      i would like to see you defend them for the way this country is going this great country isnt in a good shape and is going down the toliet because of pc ness (if you want ill give you examples) and more pc ness is not gona fix it we need someone to be the hardass here and im srry but this is them or us i didnt start it but im gona fight in it
      James Simmons:
      i agree a lot of good movies are liberal but id also add the Che Guevara (yes this asshole is a murder i got some proff for you ask for it if you like) Mao and many other facist scum gained their fame because of movies made by liberals or as lenin put it useful idiots because of the BS used people get misinformened and their emotions are used as a liberal wepon

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_C4KTZXBEUW4ZEQO33BVMP5CCKE Rauna

    Spoony’s Republican?

    I’m liberal myself, and I hope that doesn’t grant me flames from people who equate “liberal” to “evil, satanic bastard,” but I figured *most* people agreed that this was overboard to some extent.  In that it’s black and white, overdone-though I had other literary/media qualms with the story, not just political.  Such as the fact that, again, it’s been done and has a dry, “chosen one” type story with little character development and with too many predictable events.  The main character does develop, but it was already known how he would and it wasn’t that spectacularly done.

    At the same time, I do think the hate on Spoony’s part seemed overboard-slightly.  While the theme’s bashed on us and obnoxious, the theme itself isn’t that bad, basically what his brother said.  I think acceptance, tolerance is important, and that trampling on others’ lives or controlling them is flat-out wrong.  And I think pretty much every military conflict and inflation of military since World War II has been absolutely imperialistic(something I disagree with), and wasteful and pointless to anyone who wasn’t personally involved in contracting and such; usually only the few(playing nice here, I won’t go farther into it than that).

    So in summary, here’s my one disagreement with Spoony-Republican, Liberal, whatever: I’m not as much against the very basic, core idea of the theme, so much as the way it was handled in this particular film-with stereotypes, black-and-white morality, and just overall *terrible* writing.  

    Though maybe I’m wrong about that disagreement, since he was fine with To Kill a Mockingbird, apparently, which (in my opinion) handled it *correctly.*

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Broadhurst/1798358763 Matthew Broadhurst

      I’m not sure where everyone is picking up Spoony’s political views based on this review. Preachy movies are annoying as Hell, regardless of which side of the political spectrum they are.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=693961847 Jimmy Cassady

    HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!! spoony is on imdb i just noticed that ( your all going to be just like, fuck you for not knowing already)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=693961847 Jimmy Cassady

    HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!! spoony is on imdb i just noticed that ( your all going to be just like, fuck you for not knowing already)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Ellis/100002419726549 Nathan Ellis

    it’s been a while since this vid came out but at the time i didn’t want to argue your points, you’re a critic, and a damn good one, your bias is what makes you so passionate in your reviews and people love that. that being said, here i go, i’ve watched avatar twice in theaters, at least twice at home. Honestly, on some levels, i really love it. the phenomenon about it i think is how big it was. everyone i know has seen it. my neighbors, my friends, my grandparents, my parents, people i could give two shits about. and they all interpret it differently, sometimes shaping the plot and message to fit their beliefs even if they’re religious… that’s how god-damn cool it is. (i said cool, not good) There was titanic backlash, and of course the backlash for avatar was felt before the movie came out. it was over-hyped, over-advertised, over-everything. Personally, and i speak for a lot of geeks out there, i enjoyed it because i got to be a part of it. silly i know, but really. I’m 19, and a cinema junkie. i was a kid when the star wars prequels came out, looking at how much shit is dropped on those movies i was little irritated. because the critics were shit-talking my childhood, and all this nostalgiac-childhood crap is the main gripe with the prequels in the first place. “OH THE PREQUELS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!” but at this age, yeah, it sucks that lucas went back and put jar-jar’s voice and hayden christiansen at the end of return. it sucks that by making the prequels he almost killed the originals. now the only one i’ll watch and say, wow that was good, is empire strikes back. But i didn’t get to be a part of the originals when they came out. all i had was the matrix, and hollywood fucked that up too. Avatar was something i saw hyped, had my worries and anticipations, but went to a packed theater, and witnessed something that wasn’t just another movie. It was cliche, it was riddled with anti-war, and anti-imperialism references. on some levels it was dumb (unobtanium) and illogical (we would never go Gung-Ho ape shit on the only other humanoid race we know of) but it was my generations overblown sci-fi space epic. the scenery sucked the air out of the room, nobody said a fucking word. we got to see sigourney weaver at the age of 60 be smokin hot and hilariously sarcastic, the scenes with sam worthington would be unwatchable without her. Zoe saldana also makes geeks drool, and she makes the “avatar” side of the movie watchable. seriously, go back to the scene with her yelling at jake for betraying her ( of course that “yes i lied but that was before i fell in love with you” thing is SO overdone) zoe’s a great actress. stephen lang and giovanni ribisi also played such eye-rollingly predictable characters, yet we believed it. i know, i know. this was just such a great chance for geeks of the blade runner age to tear a mainstream movie to pieces for the fun of, well being cynical. but james cameron makes great movies, the guy’s got like 3 100% fresh movies on rotten tomatoes. that’s like the toy story franchise good. he’s a cocky asshole. but hype doesn’t sell alone, the top two grossing movies of all time are under his belt. of course that’s all people in the media care about is whether something is successful and not good. but avatar was good to me. i fully understand that ridley scott, darren aranofsky, stanley kubrick, and quentin tarentino are better directors who make better movies with one sixth the budget of avatar. but i’m a stoner/philosophy geek who finally got to be a part of something big, not only that but something big that addresses the collectivity of all life while still being fucking awesome to watch. i saw kids who would usually be running up and down the theater stairs just glued to the screen with their mom’s and dad’s smiling down at them with excitement that this was going to be their kid’s “star wars”. call me what you will. but that left an impression on me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Ellis/100002419726549 Nathan Ellis

    it’s been a while since this vid came out but at the time i didn’t want to argue your points, you’re a critic, and a damn good one, your bias is what makes you so passionate in your reviews and people love that. that being said, here i go, i’ve watched avatar twice in theaters, at least twice at home. Honestly, on some levels, i really love it. the phenomenon about it i think is how big it was. everyone i know has seen it. my neighbors, my friends, my grandparents, my parents, people i could give two shits about. and they all interpret it differently, sometimes shaping the plot and message to fit their beliefs even if they’re religious… that’s how god-damn cool it is. (i said cool, not good) There was titanic backlash, and of course the backlash for avatar was felt before the movie came out. it was over-hyped, over-advertised, over-everything. Personally, and i speak for a lot of geeks out there, i enjoyed it because i got to be a part of it. silly i know, but really. I’m 19, and a cinema junkie. i was a kid when the star wars prequels came out, looking at how much shit is dropped on those movies i was little irritated. because the critics were shit-talking my childhood, and all this nostalgiac-childhood crap is the main gripe with the prequels in the first place. “OH THE PREQUELS RAPED MY CHILDHOOD!” but at this age, yeah, it sucks that lucas went back and put jar-jar’s voice and hayden christiansen at the end of return. it sucks that by making the prequels he almost killed the originals. now the only one i’ll watch and say, wow that was good, is empire strikes back. But i didn’t get to be a part of the originals when they came out. all i had was the matrix, and hollywood fucked that up too. Avatar was something i saw hyped, had my worries and anticipations, but went to a packed theater, and witnessed something that wasn’t just another movie. It was cliche, it was riddled with anti-war, and anti-imperialism references. on some levels it was dumb (unobtanium) and illogical (we would never go Gung-Ho ape shit on the only other humanoid race we know of) but it was my generations overblown sci-fi space epic. the scenery sucked the air out of the room, nobody said a fucking word. we got to see sigourney weaver at the age of 60 be smokin hot and hilariously sarcastic, the scenes with sam worthington would be unwatchable without her. Zoe saldana also makes geeks drool, and she makes the “avatar” side of the movie watchable. seriously, go back to the scene with her yelling at jake for betraying her ( of course that “yes i lied but that was before i fell in love with you” thing is SO overdone) zoe’s a great actress. stephen lang and giovanni ribisi also played such eye-rollingly predictable characters, yet we believed it. i know, i know. this was just such a great chance for geeks of the blade runner age to tear a mainstream movie to pieces for the fun of, well being cynical. but james cameron makes great movies, the guy’s got like 3 100% fresh movies on rotten tomatoes. that’s like the toy story franchise good. he’s a cocky asshole. but hype doesn’t sell alone, the top two grossing movies of all time are under his belt. of course that’s all people in the media care about is whether something is successful and not good. but avatar was good to me. i fully understand that ridley scott, darren aranofsky, stanley kubrick, and quentin tarentino are better directors who make better movies with one sixth the budget of avatar. but i’m a stoner/philosophy geek who finally got to be a part of something big, not only that but something big that addresses the collectivity of all life while still being fucking awesome to watch. i saw kids who would usually be running up and down the theater stairs just glued to the screen with their mom’s and dad’s smiling down at them with excitement that this was going to be their kid’s “star wars”. call me what you will. but that left an impression on me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/trevor.apple Trevor Apple

    You guys remind me of my brother and me; it’s funny to see. He usually takes a stronger stance, while I tend to take a milder stance. Neither of us were huge fans of this movie though. Unusually, this movie was one of the things I tend to be more passionate (in my dislike).

    The thing with Avatar, in my opinion, which makes it less effective of a “morality tale” than Dances with Wolves or The Last Samurai (neither movie I enjoyed too much) was that it was a fake culture. There was no nuances to the culture either, they were broadly and vaguely defined.

    I recently read a book on the Opium War, which can be interpreted as Great Britain’s crime against China. Certainly, Britain did some terrible things there, but China was arrogant, refused trade agreements, and its soldiers committed war crimes as well.

    I think Spoony’s point that the movie is being taught to a four year old is apt. It’s not that the message is overdone, although it might be, it’s that the black and white morality is boring. I enjoy walking out of a theater, finishing a book, or playing a video game that makes me wonder who to root for, or wonder why I want someone to even root for. Why didn’t they show the diplomats trying to negotiate or trade for the resource first? Why didn’t they show how relations slowly deteriorate over time? This story was fictional, there are some real, undeniable villains in the world’s history, but they’re not interesting.

    Also, I agree that making the “connection to nature” cheapens the “we ought to preserve the environment” message. I’m sitting here thinking (not really) “well, if I had a freaking awesome kyu to manage nature, I’d want to save nature too!” There are some real values to the environmental message, some limited to personal, some pragmatic. The fact that they couldn’t come up with an emotionally resonating way to present those aspects of the message is not an excuse for lazy world building.

    My biggest problem, caused by the points above, was that I was bored.

    Sorry for the essay.

  • http://twitter.com/megarobbie7 robbie decourcey

    i liked this movie but i know where spoonys coming from

  • http://twitter.com/megarobbie7 robbie decourcey

    yeah

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Thomas/100000656687448 David Thomas

    I hated this fucking movie and I don’t understand why the fuck so many people thought this thing was amazing.. a masterpiece? HELL NO Fuck James Cameron And Fuck This Movie.

  • Anonymous

    If want a movie like this, I will watch MERCENARY FIGHTERS, thankyouverymuch!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Wiles/512511442 Samuel Wiles

      If you want a movie like this, all you need to see is Disney’s Pocahontas.

  • Anonymous

    after all this time, after all the bile i built up for spoony on this subject and all i disagreed… he was totally and utterly 100% correct

  • Anonymous

    after all this time, after all the bile i built up for spoony on this subject and all i disagreed… he was totally and utterly 100% correct

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nathan-Ellis/100002419726549 Nathan Ellis

    i just think you’re all being geeky hipsters if you find nothing in avatar enjoyable. There were a few glaring cliches, was it an amazing plot? fuck no. But backlash to a film because of it’s popularity and hype, and not because of it’s content, is just fucking retarded. Miles makes good points, does it deserve to be on a top 30 list? not at all. but subjective opinions aside, it was a pretty cool experience. So, fuck james cameron? the guy who made the terminator and aliens? what kind of geeks are you? Is going against popular opinion really that enjoyable?

    • http://twitter.com/Winterwander Miika Kuusisto

       Even Spoony found SOME things in Avatar that were enjoyable. I think most people do. But there are just some major things about that movie that irk it’s critics (me included). Avatar loses to the other films with the same plot (Dances with Wolves, The Last Samurai…), cause it isn’t believable and feels more like it’s pushing it’s message down your throat (to me).

      And the backlash to a film because of it’s popularity and hype? Well, obviously it’s harder to just pass a film with a shrug when you are hearing praise about it everywhere and you go “I thought it was just kinda alright at best, wtf is everybody going on about?”. That’s why you get the “backlash”. If a movie isn’t popular, the critique isn’t going to be as vocal, cause NOBODY CARES.

      And really, to me it’s just that based on the previous James Cameron movies, going to the theater to see Avatar, I just expected to see a better and more original movie. Avatar almost made me go “Fuck you James Cameron” as well. Well maybe more like “what were you thinking?!”

      Still, I enjoyed Avatar. I was entertained. But honestly I’d rate it to be about as good as the A-team movie, which I similiarly enjoyed to see… But in no way are either of those top 10 of the year movies or anything like that. 5/10 films, both of them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dazz-Boam/100000159114833 Dazz Boam

    Got so fucking bored watching avatar. Like spoony was saying about the guilt trip, it’s been overused so much.

  • http://twitter.com/Spokavriel Daniel Thomas Stack

    Want to know what the best Cinematic Foil to this movie is? It was made in the 80’s The Dark Crystal.

    Its not the same story its a simple quest but THERE ARE NO HUMANS IN THE MOVIE. And it HAS A HEART. This movie has no heart.

    • veryatheringofice

      Princess Mononoke.  The ultimate environmentalist film because it never takes sides and lets you see the positives and negatives of the forest dwellers and the people who want to mine the forests for iron.

      • http://twitter.com/Spokavriel Daniel Thomas Stack

        Not to mention the woman obsessed with getting the Great Forest Spirit’s head separated from its body. She was way too ambitious and almost got the whole world killed. Its that aspect that makes me say its the same track in messaging instead of really being a foil to Avatar.

  • veryatheringofice

    When you said the thing about plugging into trees and animals, I thought of the series “Crest of the Stars.”  There’s a genetically engineered race of beings called Abh who are designed to live in space.  They have a third eye (which is like a hole in the middle of their foreheads) that they put this tiara into and then use to plug into a ship and with their sixth sense, they can feel the ship–where it is in space, whether it’s damaged, etc.  They can pilot ships so well because they can feel everything the ship does and respond to environmental changes faster.  But, this race was designed for the purpose of traveling in space, so I buy the idea of them plugging themselves into a ship.  In Avatar, it sounds like they just somehow evolved that way.

    There was no reason for Lucas not to develop Clone Trooper costumes for the prequel.  He just CGI’d the costumes because he could.  That is improper use of CGI, as you said with the blood effects.

    You know what’s funny about the real Pocahontas and the “White guilt” thing?  She moved to England and dressed as an Englishwoman the rest of her life.

  • Senna4ever

    Avatar is a great piece of kid’s entertainment. It really is. My kids love the cartoon it keeps them entertained.
    But it’s no Sci-Fi masterpiece.
    It took Cameron 10 years to write and me 10 mins to forget.
    How can Cameron say it took 10 years to write when all he did was steal ideas from other films? You could knock up this plot in an hour with a 30 min lunch break.

  • http://profiles.google.com/likalaruku Allaiyah Weyn

    Pocahontas Dances with Furngully.

    Blue-skinned avatars? Hindi mythology did that first.

  • http://www.facebook.com/beqaxitiri Beqa Khitiri

    Another thing Avatar was derivative of was World of Warcraft… Really :D At least how it looks :)

    Floating islands with waterfalls – 
    http://wowfan.tiscali.cz/pic/gameinfo/lokace/nagrand.jpg

    Purple nature-attuned bow-and-arrow using Native American-like people –   http://bosskilling.com/misc/images-ne/1%20(1).jpg And, of course, the giant tree that these natives live around – 
    http://elvesarenotfake.com/images/wow_world_tree.jpg :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Flipsta-Flippy/1115055123 Flipsta Flippy

      Yeah…. WoW has those elements… but to say Avatar got it’s visual inspirations from WoW is to utterly insult the skill of the CG developers. The scenery for Avatar was FAR superior to WoW.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bryan-John-Sauriol/711670364 Bryan John Sauriol

    I didn’t love Avatar. I agree the main story was painfully uninspired and unoriginal. But the world was actually well fleshed out. Ignoring the lack of creativity in naming the macguffin “Unobtanium” (which is actually a narrative term that refers to a special substance required by a peice of fiction, such as Dilithium in Star Trek or Eezo in Mass Effect), the floating mountains are explained as related to Pandora’s unique magnetic field, which tied into the effects of the Unobtanium and its properties as superconductive. This was also tied into the hair thing Spoony complained about, which was supposed to be the core metaphor (which clearly disappeared after repeated rewrites) which was about the interconectedness of ecosystems. Just wanted to point out that Spoony in this case was way too busy looking for things to complain about and missed the fact that some of his points were actually addressed in the movie.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SV3CRCIVJHPT3L6TM2UVUNGAXU aaron

    yeah Cameron didnt really try on this one

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stephen-Martin/1596700226 Stephen Martin

    You know, it is difficult to clearly define who the villain is in this crappy movie. The humans have a major expensive operation going on. It gets shut down people will starve. The Navi are the natives but they’re rigid in their ways and refuse to compromise or even entertain the idea of peace once they break off relations. But now I realize the villain was that god damned tree! The Navi are a slave species mutated from its original form to serve the tree’s needs. When they die their memories and souls are trapped forever in a nightmarish purgatory serving the tree. And which human turns traitor? The one who spent the most time piloting a Navi by remote and plugging his brain into things like a good little slave beast. Worst part is… that tree won. I read a story like this once where astronauts visit two planets with odd plants and sentient species spending every waking moment cultivating the plants. They pollinate the plants and then have an overwhelming urge to return home. This is because they’ve been infected by the plant that has enslaved both of the other species and now it has its sights set on Earth. Soon humanity will be a distant memory, nine foot blue cat people will be roaming what was once our planet. Our technology will be long forgotten and every available mineral will be gathered under one giant tree the same way tiberium does it in order to attract another race of future slaves.

  • http://www.facebook.com/harry.kotzwurst Harry Kotzwurst

    I really really hate it, when people just say: “This movie sucked.” w/o any explanation why. Those people are everywhere under Spoony’s reviews. What the hell.

  • capthavic

    In reality it would have ended with the Na’vi getting nuked from orbit. XD

    • Otto Torrens

      This a million fucking times

  • Otto Torrens

    To me the expression on Spoony’s face when his brother talks about what he ‘likes’ in the film seems like a ‘I can’t believe we’re related’ look.

  • likalaruku

    Ferngully, Dune, Dances With Wolves, ReBoot, Pocahontas….

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